Ruby & Jodi: A Cult of Sin and Influence (2025) s01e03 Episode Script

My heart's pounding like crazy.
Take your time through it.
Jodi was just kind of
this weird aunt that I had.
And she wasn't really anything
in my life in any sort of real way
until I was forced to live with her.
That was the splitting of my life.
The way I find out is,
my cousin texts me and was like, hey,
how are you doing
after the Jodi thing,
and I'm like, what do you mean?
Like What Jodi thing?
Ruby Franke and business
partner, Jodi Hildenbrandt,
arrested for child abuse.
I had not seen
Jodi's face, seen her name,
heard her voice in a long time.
I definitely didn't know
anything about Ruby.
But the things that I have seen,
it's so familiar to me.
It's the same.
Rube Franke's youngest son
escaped through a window
from this Ivins' house.
It's where investigators found rope,
bindings and other items
used to torture
the boy and his sibling.
It didn't surprise me at all.
Like, it makes perfect sense
why and how this happened.
Jodi's methods are very subtle.
It's like this metaphor
of a frog being boiled.
You don't just throw a frog
in a pot of boiling water,
you just slowly turn up
the temperature until they die.
She gains your trust, and little
by little, she rips you apart.
That's how Jodi works.
I grew up primarily in California.
I was born in San Jose, and then
when I was about seven or eight,
we moved to southern California.
Growing up, my dad
was more of the silent, stoic type.
Very patriarchal,
dad has the last say.
Dad is the disciplinary.
Mom was the caretaker
and the nurturer.
But if you didn't fall into
what they deemed as appropriate,
you were on the outs.
I've always been like,
the weird art kid.
Didn't wear the right thing,
I didn't say the right thing.
I have memories of me singing
all of the Shania Twain songs
and dancing on the coffee table
and putting lipstick on
and singing into the mirror,
but in my family,
you had to be very levelheaded,
you had to speak about emotions
as if it were the weather.
And that was just not me.
And that definitely created
a void in me as a little kid,
and I definitely acted out a lot,
wanting that attention,
wanting that care and that love,
anyway that I knew how to get it.
I started experimenting sexually
with friends at a very young age,
with making out at sleepovers,
but I had this internalized
belief in the church
that being gay was evil.
And so, I truly thought
I was going to hell,
as an 8-year-old, for kissing girls.
Acts of homosexuality
are evil and absolutely wrong.
If you are born gay and you happen
to also be born Mormon,
you are facing an extremely
difficult internal conflict.
You have this sexual
identity that is not fitting
within the construct
of the Mormon Church.
So, you learn how to really
see yourself as broken,
see yourself as damaged,
see yourself as less than.
Second or third grade,
I think I was being punished
for getting caught experimenting,
so I came home from school,
and everything that I owned was gone.
My room was empty
except for a mattress on the floor.
And then I was given
a list of my items
that I could earn back
one at a time from acting right.
Restitution is a very key part
in this process
of being able to move through
and eradicate or flush out
the inappropriateness
of what was it that I did.
My mom was being told by Jodi
this was an okay thing to do.
And Jodi is a professional
and her sister-in-law.
Why would she not trust her?
God said marriage is between
a man and a woman, period. The end.
And when that boundary was removed,
it opened the door
for all sexual perversion.
As time continued, as I get older,
there was this like,
feeling of being invisible.
And my dad wouldn't acknowledge me,
wouldn't look at me,
he was speaking
through my mother to talk to me.
Even to the point
where we're at the dinner table,
and he would be like, Michelle,
tell Jessica to pass
the salad dressing.
And I would just sit there,
not allowed to be upset,
just like fuming,
like I'm right here.
School was such
a refuge for me. I loved it.
I started coming
into my own in terms of like,
my style and then
finding like, cool music.
I would bring my makeup,
do my makeup
and then wash it off
before I would go home.
They would see that and be like,
oh, they're doing drugs.
And like, literally I was like,
giving out book of Mormons at school.
But I was angry,
so anger plus appearance
must mean
I'm doing very sinful things.
And at that time,
all of the emotional distress
had escalated quite exponentially.
I had started running away
and I think my mom
truly didn't know what to do.
We drove to Utah
for my grandparents
60th wedding anniversary.
There was this big party,
and it was very sweet,
and I didn't really eat anything,
and yet I was tasked
with doing dishes, which
so unfair to a, you know, a teenager.
It was classic how dare
your parents ask you to do a chore.
I was really mad at my mom,
told her I hated her,
went down into the basement,
locked myself in the basement.
I fell asleep, woke up
to a knock on the door,
and it was my grandparents and Jodi
there to inform me
that my family had gone,
they had left,
and I wasn't going with them.
You know, in movies, that effect
when you're zooming in
and pulling out at the same time and
it creates this warping background,
foreground kind of sensation?
Oh, my God, everything
is wrong, nothing is right,
what is up, what is down,
what do you mean?
That is what it felt like.
That moment
of refusing to do the dishes
has haunted me every day.
If I had just done the dishes,
none of this would have happened.
I know that Jodi
was systematically breaking me down
because in one
of my meetings with my bishop,
that's exactly what they told me.
They compared me to a horse
that needed to be broken
so that I could then be rebuilt.
In the beginning, I was like,
okay, this sucks, but I'm all in.
I was compliant
and I wasn't acting out.
To Jodi, that meant
that I was manipulating and lying.
There is truth and there are lies.
And so, a person is constantly
in the middle choosing,
having their free agency, choosing
which direction they're going to go.
Punishments and life
became very quickly unbearable.
A very intentional, methodical
deconstruction of self is the goal.
All sources of identity
were ripped from me.
I wasn't allowed to play piano,
I wasn't allowed to sing,
be on the internet.
I wasn't allowed to read at all.
I wasn't allowed to talk to friends,
I was not allowed
to speak to my parents
except for on speaker
with my grandparents, Jodi,
maybe a bishop, I was fully isolated.
It is our obligation to repent
so that we can receive
all the blessings of the atonement,
and one day receive eternal life
with God and our Father.
Jodi would take me to work with her.
She would put me in this closet
and would lock me in that room
for up to like, 12 hours a day.
She would give me assignments like,
writing out all of my sins.
So, 16-year-old me just sitting
there like, trying to think of,
oh, what have I done,
like, I've never had sex,
I've never done drugs,
I told her about like
thinking I was gay,
and I told her everything.
Then she would come in and make me
get on my hands and knees
and read the sins back to me
and make me beg for forgiveness.
In her own words, she wanted
to make my life so miserable
that it would force the sin out
because, in her belief,
if you are honest
and confessing your sins,
then you should be getting better,
and I was getting worse.
So that was proof to her
that there was still more sin
that I hadn't confessed to.
And she would say this
in this very like, condescending,
contemptuous it leads us like,
there's darkness in you.
That thankfully,
I'm here to save you.
At Church, I was not allowed
to speak to anyone.
And at Jodi's, I always had
to wear duct tape on my mouth
because, according to her, every word
that came out of my mouth was a lie.
I was so dissociated.
Not knowing
that's what was happening.
But then my dissociation
was also used against me,
like I remember
my grandmother being like,
what's wrong with them,
it's like no one's there.
And then Jodi would be like,
yeah, there's not.
This is what shame does,
this is what Satan does.
I would just be sitting there like,
hovering above my body.
I believed it. Thought I deserved it.
I thought that this was
God's way of punishing me.
I didn't know what was happening.
I didn't know why it was happening.
I thought it was weak.
I thought it was evil.
I had no one to turn to,
no one I could trust.
This is January, February.
This was February
because my birthday came.
Not a word was said to me.
And at the end of the day, Jodi
was like, I know it's your birthday.
How did that feel
for no one to acknowledge it?
So it was just like that constantly.
In like November or December,
Jodi went on a cruise.
And so I was left
at my grandparents' house,
and this was the first time
I've been out of her grasp.
And I went and saw
my cousins that lived in the area.
My cousin, she's my age, and she
asked if I want to go on Facebook.
And I was like, I don't know.
I don't think I should.
But I didn't have access to it.
I just wanted to see what my profile
looked like, and I was terrified.
And my cousin was like, what if I
go on for you and you can just look?
And I was like, sweet, cool loophole.
And I realized
my digital footprint was just erased.
So many memories just gone.
Growing up in high-demand religion
there's this need to confess.
Faith, divine nature,
individual worth,
knowledge, choice,
and accountability.
I was so wracked with guilt and shame
that I'd done something so deceitful
and so maniacal
and evil and vicious
for looking at Facebook.
And no one knew besides me
and my cousin that this happened.
But I told Jodi.
It was very much this like,
how dare you?
The first time that you get freedom
and this is what you do,
you just go behind
my back. You just lie.
You manipulated my cousin.
This is what you do. You're
so full of evil, you're so dark.
She was acting like I had murdered
someone, and I believed it.
And that's what the shame
that I felt was as if I did it again.
I did the thing
I don't even know that I'm doing.
Looking back, why did I do that?
Because Jodi
would not have found out.
I do think that Jodi
is a very sick person,
and that something happened.
I don't know what
and I don't know if it's a singular
event or if multiple things happened
that led her to who she is.
Whatever happened in her life caused
her pain, anguish, and hurt,
and that in no way justifies
the behavior that she has,
but hurt people hurt people.
The early part of the equation,
I think it goes back
to her family culture.
It was extremely rigid.
She says this in her book,
that her father was a Colonel in the
Air Force, very emotionally limited.
She says that her mother
wasn't very maternal.
My parents were both
emotionally shut down.
I didn't know that
as a child, but now I do.
And so I learned
how to be really nice,
I learned how to be kind,
helpful, gracious, and good.
To be female within the church,
your primary role
is to be a wife and a mother.
Jodi failed at both of those.
She was divorced, and I know that
her daughter has made it very clear
that she wants absolutely nothing
to do with her mother.
I'm okay with my child
being angry with me.
Even to the point
of them leaving my life.
Within the context of the church,
it is considered a moral failing.
And yet she was the point person
that the church sent people to
for marriage advice
and parenting advice.
She is so good at spinning things.
She's like, no, no, no no,
because of my divorce,
that makes me more qualified.
I think some of Jodi's
destructiveness towards Jessi
was a function of her self-hatred.
I remember as a teenager
and young adult
feeling so overwhelmed with pain
that said you don't matter,
you're not enough,
you don't do it right,
you make people upset,
you're the reason why people
are having pain in their life.
My grandmother talked about Jodi
and her having these
special friendships with other girls.
Growing up in a culture that doesn't
particularly accept homosexuality
is certainly potentially a problem.
If that's how she feels, she can't
express that part of herself.
So, she has to repress it.
I am not gay.
I am not dumb, I am not stupid,
I am not ugly, I am not fat,
I'm not all those things.
Because I am divine.
This is someone who potentially
is going to find a way
to project that self-hatred
into the world.
And one of the ways you can do that
is you destroy relationships.
She's so rigid, she's so rigid
in her beliefs and her world views.
She, from how I understand it,
has always been
a very difficult person to deal with,
and it's really tough
because how many times
have women been called that?
The patriarchy's going to tell you
to stay small, stay silent,
that you're too much, that you're
too big, that you're too loud,
and I think she
used that to rationalize
and justify the abuse
that she engaged with.
I know, from what I've been told,
Jodi accused her ex-husband
of horrendous things.
Tried to get him ex-communicated.
Nearly destroyed this man.
Do you feel like,
while you were living with her,
she was formulating
Connexions dogma?
I would say that
when I was living with Jodi,
things were very much
in the trial-and-error phase.
I think with Ruby's children,
and these men,
it was much more,
I have this playbook,
I have a very defined route
that I'm going to take.
Deconstruction of self
and sense of self.
The deconstruction
of sense of reality.
That's what she required that you
give your entire self over to her.
If you just submit,
everything will be okay.
Stoking this belief that everything
that is happening is in your control,
your fault, and you deserve it.
Folks, I don't know what to do.
Like, I want to see.
You realize I have
a picture of my family on my wall,
and I look at it every day.
And I work. I work! Everyday.
So I can get back
to my family and save my family.
Everything you're sharing to me
just sounds like a made up story.
Like, I
I have no idea
what you're talking about.
Like
It sounds like a horror movie.
Jodi broke Kevin Franke.
He believed that he was
an awful human being
and didn't deserve
to be around his family.
People will say,
"oh, what a coward."
How could he not do this,
and I'm going, hold on a second.
I saw this woman.
I've seen the destruction
she's caused.
There was an individual
in my group that hadn't seen his kids
in six to eight months.
And he kept on having to add on time,
and I didn't quite understand why.
And I'm thinking this guy, is he
going to like, a massage parlor?
Is this guy a true sex addict? No.
It's because he did a double-take.
What's a double-take?
He saw an attractive woman,
he saw once,
but then he looked again.
And he had to call his wife and
let her know that he had done this,
and that would add on time,
to not see his kids and to stay
in whatever apartment he was in.
I have a buddy
that had to live in his car.
Couldn't see his brand new baby.
With Jodi, forgiveness
was not in the picture whatsoever.
I want just want to be very clear
that this woman is so far
from what I believe in
with the church and my faith.
She just was an opportunist
that kind of saw that there was
this opportunity by using shame.
There has been kind of a conflation
between the LDS church
and Jodi Hildebrandt's teachings,
but they're very much distinct,
and she radicalized them
in order to attract victims
and make her appear LDS friendly
where in fact she was
extremely contrary
to the teachings of Jesus Christ
and the LDS Church.
In May of 2016, after I refused
to follow Jodi's teachings,
my wife said,
"Hey, I'm separating from you."
And she then dictated all the time
I could have with my daughter.
And then it was Labor Day,
and my family invited me
to spend some time with them.
So my wife learned of that
and she said, if you do that,
that's abusive, it's abusive
to spend time with your family.
And that was clearly
according to Jodi.
But then she said, if you stay home,
I'll let you see our daughter.
So, I decided to stay home,
but then even after that,
my wife still didn't let me
see our daughter.
At that point I just,
I felt like I was going insane.
Let's talk about boundaries.
Boundaries.
So when you're following
Jodi, what happens is,
this individual has a family,
you know, mom, dad, brothers,
sisters, friends, whatever,
they're slowly being taught that
these people are not living in truth,
and you need to separate
yourself from them.
Someone said to me just today,
Jodi, I'm ready
to end a 25-year marriage,
what do I do?
If you have been practicing
for months and months
of being in truth, and this person
refuses, refuses, refuses, refuses
what they're saying
is I'm unwilling to humble
and I will not look at myself.
If that is the case,
you may decide to say, I'm done.
I started my own practice in 2002
and so I've worked with couples
long enough to know
that there are
two sides to every story.
There is the possibility
that some really troubling things
are going on in these marriages,
and the women have legitimate
reasons to ask for separations.
But the problem is Jodi's method.
In the hands of Jodi Hildebrandt,
those marriages that were already
vulnerable just imploded.
Shortly after the separation,
my wife said, I will divorce you
unless you see another counselor
and he was
a domestic violence counselor.
I had to say that
I was abusive to my wife,
and I was abusive to our daughter
even though
it was just patently false.
And that was clearly an attempt
from what I saw for her
to then try to use that
against me for a custody dispute.
It was very methodical, you know,
it's either, you don't see your kid
'cause you're not admitting to this
abuse, or you do admit to the abuse,
falsely, and then they use that
to take your kid away
in custody proceedings.
It's very deliberate and planned,
from what I saw.
People are engaging
in lascivious, and rude,
and destructive, and violent,
and aggressive, and entitled,
and selfish behaviors,
and they don't have truth.
At that point, I was fed up
with everything else going on,
and so I told my wife,
I'm done living in fear of you
disallowing me from seeing
our daughter. She needs me.
I'm her father, and you don't
have a moral right to do this,
you don't have
a legal right to do this.
That's when I decided
to file for divorce.
It just came to the point
where I had to do it.
I have a buddy living in Utah,
and this area
is very predominantly LDS.
Just within his neighborhood
there were five divorces.
And all of them were seeing Jodi.
How many couples
do you think she is responsible
for the divorce of
or accelerating the divorce process?
If my math is correct, I think we're
in the, well over the hundreds.
We might even be in the thousands.
Once I refused to go to Jodi, things
started getting out of control,
and she ratcheted up her plan
to take my own family away from me.
So, question, what do you do
if you're already
in an established relationship
and you have emotional unsafety?
So, as you start healing yourself
you're going to need to learn
how to set boundaries
and hold boundaries for yourself
Jodi teaches people
to use abstract language
like, his addiction,
he crosses boundaries.
How did he cross boundaries?
She doesn't answer
any of the specific questions, but
she was good at organizing language
to create a form of control.
Let's suppose my partner
or my spouse has violated my safety
and has been looking
at pornography online.
If I continue to set boundaries,
and this person's
not willing to honor them,
chances are I won't be able
to stay in the relationship.
One time, my wife
comes home and she asked me
to get our 1-year-old
daughter from the bathtub.
And then out of nowhere,
this is the time
where it's totally prohibited by Jodi
for us to be intimate or anything.
Couldn't talk together, couldn't
sleep together, could nothing.
She walks
into the bathroom in lingerie.
She starts teasing me in the doorway.
I was just like, wow.
You know, so I was like,
here get the baby out of the tub,
and she takes the baby out, and then
she comes back in the bathroom,
and she looked at my private parts,
and then she looked at me in disgust
like, I was horrible,
and just walked off.
Eventually, she left
and took the children with her.
Your job is to protect your young.
If there was a lion coming
after your young,
you would stand in between,
and you put the baby behind you,
and you would defend that child
with everything you have.
Well, that's what's coming at you.
It is worse than the lion.
It is here to snuff out the life
of your child and kill her.
Spiritually.
As soon as Adam's ex left,
everything was, Adam,
I will only come back to you
if you return to Jodi.
When my wife
ran away with the kids,
I was so worried about her,
and I was worried about them,
and I was trying
to get information out of Jodi
to find out where they were
to see if they were safe.
And so, I went
to Jodi's office I said to Jodi,
hey, there's been a huge confusion.
My ex is acting
like she's scared of me.
And Jodi started acting like
she should be scared of me,
and I confided, I said
I was a victim of sexual abuse.
I've had fears that people
would think I'd be like that,
and insecurity, but that
doesn't mean I'm like that.
She was just like, Adam,
it does mean you're like that.
That's just your addiction in your
head working, and it's changing.
And in my head I was like,
this lady's ---- nuts.
She's absolutely dangerous.
When I become addicted
or I have an addiction
to some type of external, I become
a masterful manipulator slash liar.
I had written a letter
to my ex-wife's parents
about what Jodi was doing,
which was shared with Jodi.
And I think that's what broke it.
Jodi got that letter in her head,
she's just like,
this guy is not safe.
Eventually, Adam talked to the police
and said I don't know what to do,
I haven't seen my kids for weeks,
and they said
file a parental kidnapping report.
But he first wrote his wife an email
saying I'm gonna file this,
and I believe immediately
she contacted Jodi
and said he's gonna do this,
so I'm going to follow your advice
and file a protective order,
and I'm filing for divorce
at the same time.
In the protective order,
she said in there that Adam
was giving our baby girl a bath,
and he had to yell for me
to get the baby out of the bath,
and when I went in there,
he had an erection
and he was trying
to hide it from me.
I couldn't believe it.
It was a total mind ----.
Literally,
that Jodi was trying to create.
Everything
that's nasty in this world,
is coming from a place of distortion.
This idea of the addiction mindset
is also completely aligned
with Jodi's idea of distortion.
And an addiction mindset is
essentially sin because apparently,
we are all born
with an addiction mindset,
and so we're all flawed,
we're all sinners.
And I think a lot of Jodi's
system of thought
is based on the idea
of expunging or exercising that sin.
Does anybody that's hearing me
and you are caught in an addiction,
it is absolutely imperative
that you go through
a very thorough process of repenting.
Of course, it turns out that Jodi
is the one who's gonna help you
understand the way
to get through your distortions.
Repentance is the way
to Jodi's truth.
You either live in truth, or you
default into distortion; that's it.
There's nothing else.
And at this point, for Adam,
it was just getting worse and worse.
Adam's wife now wanted
custody of the children,
and we found ourselves in and out
of court fighting for the children,
and then at one of these hearings,
all of a sudden, this shows up.
This thing right here
has caused more damage
than you can ever imagine.
Dr. Brownsmith
is a very well-known psychiatrist,
and during the trial
against the Boy Scouts of America,
she did this extensive
evaluation on Adam.
The psych evaluation,
they were asking me
all about the sexual abuse
that happened to me as a kid.
Adam's ex's attorney,
they subpoenaed it
to build a custody case against Adam.
I felt like they took the words
out of that psych evaluation
and turned everything on its head.
There were words
in it like, me saying
I felt scared
when children came around,
in a very specific reference
talking about other parents
afraid of this whole stigma
that people that are abused
will also abuse,
that's a cycle of abuse.
That's not fair one bit.
They were saying, well, look,
he's mentally and immorally bankrupt.
He's been abused.
And so, she should have the custody.
This was protected
by a ceiling order,
but also protected
extensively by HIPPA.
And the judge immediately
just said it can't be used.
Around the same time,
the judge made that decision,
Adam's ex distributed
this like you would a newspaper.
She gave it to Jodi Hildebrandt,
and then she gave it
to Mormon Church leaders,
she also gave it
to Brigham Young University
where Adam went to school.
Then it shows up
at the children's daycare in Provo.
Was Jodi Hildebrandt instructing
Adam's ex-wife to distribute this?
Well, that seems
to make sense, I believe.
They did this to try
to destroy Adam's life
and take the kids away from him.
Jodi wanted to get him
kicked out of BYU,
get him kicked out
of the housing, get his job,
take his rights with his kids, she
just literally wanted to ruin him.
Right after the BYU
Honor Code Office got this,
Jodi Hildebrandt called them
with Adam's ex on the phone with her
and diagnosed Adam
as a narcissist, dangerous predator.
Because of what
Jodi was telling them,
the BYU Honor Code Office
kicked me out of the university.
What's so wrong is that Jodi was a
licensed mental health professional,
and licensed
professionals cannot do that.
There are ethical guidelines that we
agree to when we get that license.
And so she cannot talk
to anyone about a client
without the client's explicit
signed permission.
What Jodi Hildebrandt did
in talking with the university
is completely unethical.
If you have a complaint
and you call up DOPL and say,
this therapist
was practicing unethically,
the board is going to have
a hearing to bring them in
and have them potentially
and professionally disciplined.
And that's when my dad
put this great case together
and took it to the department
of professional licensing.
The Hildebrandt phone call
to BYU with Adam's ex on it,
was the key thing
that we were able to take to DOPL
and show how far
she had gone out of line.
She did agree that she
had shared personal information
without my permission,
but that's a cop-out when you look
at what she really did.
Even with all these violations,
Jodi Hildebrandt's therapy license
was only suspended for 18 months.
Our attorney said we were lucky
to get an 18-month probation.
I know very few therapists who've
had their license put on probation.
I mean, that's really uncommon.
Welcome to empowering
joy class. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt.
Ironically, this in many ways,
freed Jodi of having to worry
about obeying all the ethical rules
that her license would have
compelled her to follow.
And once she starts working
as a life coach in Connexions,
she could basically operate
in any way she wants.
I've been working with tens
of thousands of people for 20 years.
And I've been asking God
about how to help heal them.
My desire is to spread this
throughout the whole entire world.
It goes beyond just wanting
to divide couples and control them.
It goes to the idea
of controlling everyone.
She wants everyone to be her puppet.
That has the makings
of a cult leader.
If you look
at almost any cult leader,
let's take Keith Raniere of NXIVM,
they always begin
with the cult of self-improvement.
A lot of what Jodi Hildebrandt
was doing was sort of in that bent.
Get the help you need.
We've got an online community.
You have access to all these
digital workbooks and DVD's
and then you get to sit
in a class with all these students
and myself every Saturday morning.
It's pretty clear to me
that Jodi Hildebrandt was motivated
by two primary things,
money and power.
She's using the same tactics that
narcissists and tyrants have used
since the beginning of time.
It's all the same coercive control.
I have a friend that went to see
Jodi, he was struggling with life.
He's an LDS member
and has homosexual tendencies.
And he hadn't come out to the world.
And he went to Jodi with this.
He told me
he liked the stuff out the gate,
and she recommended
that he join the men's group.
In our group,
it was all straight men.
He did not want
to go to the men's group.
She ultimately talked him into it.
She's very good at that.
After a little while,
Jodi called him a liar
and that he's in distortion
and forced him to come out
with his homosexual tendencies.
She made him feel like
such a sick plague
because he had gay feelings.
This about killed him.
I'm not kidding.
And so, now I'm getting angry.
I'm getting really angry.
But finally I just stood up
in a group meeting.
Jodi, and I just pointed at her,
I said, there's something
evil inside of you.
And all of you should not
be listening to the blank
that is coming out
of this woman's mouth.
This is off. There is no forgiveness.
This is just
a load of crap. This is wrong.
And the whole thing,
it was just the cult of Jodi.
And I won't be a part of it anymore.
Do you think Jodi Hildebrandt
is a cult leader?
I don't think Jodi Hildebrandt
is a cult leader intentionally.
I think that as she taught
what she taught,
when people would have
positive experiences with it,
they became the raving fans that
would advertise what she's teaching
as if it's the gospel truth,
and then created a culture
and an environment
that felt cult like.
Lust is a lie.
At the epicenter
and heart of lust is deception,
manipulation, coercion
and a trap for your spirit.
She had these really intense
relationships with women,
like kind of special favorite person.
I think Ruby's just one of many.
I've heard a lot of the rumors
about you know, romantic interests.
It definitely wouldn't surprise me
if there was some type of feelings
of more than friendship.
If they hadn't been
caught, eventually,
Ruby would have done
something to fall from grace
and then she
would have been replaced.
Because that's what
this dynamic does.
It is always a revolving door.
What did Jodi Hildebrandt
see in my ex-wife,
the daughter of a prestigious
Mormon leader?
A beautiful woman, by her side.
Jodi wanted Adam's first wife
because her father was
high up in Mormon leadership.
Jodi wanted Ruby
because Ruby had a huge platform,
and Jodi wanted that platform.
And so, with Ruby,
the genes were there to be turned on,
and Jodi was just the catalyst.
The truth heals. Truth is light.
Truth never changes.
In our investigation, we were
focusing on the child abuse
and we were asking
what's the motive here?
The more that we were able
to piece this puzzle together,
it became more and more clear
that what was going on,
was Ruby, like a religious follower,
was taking everything
Jodi said to be gospel.
We got a better picture of that
when we went back
with an additional warrant.
And that was when we found
the most damning piece of evidence,
Ruby's journal.