The Fox Hollow Murders: Playground of a Serial Killer (2025) s01e03 Episode Script
Answer the Riddle
1
[Russ] Recording.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Let's go downstairs, I'll show you.
[Jane] Okay.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
These stairs were carpeted.
Okay these steps right here.
He'd sit right here down in this water,
enjoying that jet.
And tell his stories.
I can remember some of the things he said.
It was, uh, talking about
the facial
issues of a dying person.
Okay and this stimulated him sexually,
to talk about this, and you were
supposed to say it back to him.
So that he could
finish his arousal.
You understand?
[Jane]
Do you still believe that he had help?
That somebody else was involved?
[Mark Anthony Good8year] Had to be.
Like I say, in your darkest hour,
standing in hell with the devil,
God is there, and his angels are there,
and it is the truth.
You can rest assured that I believe
with everything I have,
that these victims,
right down to the most solitary victim,
are in a state of perfection and grace.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear on computer]
And so we just fill up
with that joy and satisfaction
and we're thankful for them.
And we say thank you so much
for each and every one of these.
The time that we did have together.
Thank you. It was beautiful.
[Steve Ainsworth] There are a lot
of things to like about being a detective.
You don't go see the same thing every day.
When my pager would go off
at three o'clock in the morning,
it wasn't like,
"Oh, crap. Now I gotta go do something."
It would be,
"I'm gonna go see something
that most people will never see
in their entire lives."
And not only that, I'm responsible
for figuring out what happened.
[grunts]
I've been a police officer
for just about 44 years.
And I am currently working as a consultant
for Cold Case Homicides
and Unidentified Human Remains.
I was a detective
for about 31 and a half years.
I worked on several high-profile cases.
Uh, I consulted for the DA's office
in Boulder.
I consulted on the JonBenet Ramsey case
in 1996, 1997.
I worked the Betty Lee Jones homicide
from 1970 for 16 years.
I worked on the Boulder Jane Doe case
from 1954,
where she was found dumped
near Boulder Creek.
Solved that one.
I worked probably
over 2,400 deaths in my career.
I've only had one unsolved homicide.
There's just all kinds
of different fascinating cases.
And it's a giant puzzle.
So the bigger the case,
the more serious the case,
the bigger the puzzle becomes.
And that was the challenge.
I just love the challenge.
So, a case that isn't actively working
and you're out of leads,
that would be a cold case,
and it could be after three months.
It could be after a year.
It could be after five years.
I would go back into cold cases
and look at 'em and go,
"Okay, what can I do with this case
to move it forward
that wasn't done back then?"
Authorities in Hamilton County
are renewing efforts to identify
the remains of more than
a dozen people
found on the former property
of a notorious serial killer.
Investigators believe Herbert Baumeister
killed at least 25 people.
Police have said he--
[Steve Ainsworth] I had never heard of the
Baumeister case until April of last year.
And I got a call from a friend of mine,
who is a retired LAPD homicide detective.
And he says, "Hey, do you know
who Herb Baumeister is?"
And I said, "No, I've never heard of him."
He goes,
"He's a serial killer in Indiana.
Look him up."
I said, "Okay. Well, what's up?"
He goes, "I want you to call this guy,
Jeff Jellison.
He's a coroner out there
in, uh, Hamilton County.
And he is trying to identify
all the victims of this guy."
And so, I got interested,
and I started reading about Baumeister.
The more I read, the more I knew
that we would be able to help him
start identifying these people
and help him to fulfill his mission.
My job is to figure out
how'd these guys die,
and there's a lot of questions.
- Steve!
- What is going on, man?
How are you, buddy?
Steve Ainsworth is
Good to see you.
in my opinion, he's the Michael Jordan
of cold case investigators.
He's been there
with homicide investigations.
He's been there with
unidentified human remain cases.
He's walked this path far ahead of me.
Jeff is one of those guys that does
the right thing for the right reason.
I believe that we gave up
with this investigation.
The criminal investigation
appeared to have ended
when Herb Baumeister killed himself.
We didn't finish our job.
We think alike.
We have the same philosophy.
We have the same morals.
We have the same sense of right and wrong.
Steve Ainsworth assists law enforcement
agencies with cold case investigations.
He's not
the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department.
He's not
the Hamilton County Coroner's Office.
He can look at this case
with some very clear eyes.
And I'll say this,
if there's somebody else out there
that had been involved,
and Steve Ainsworth's dogging them,
they better watch out.
Because he'll catch up with them.
These are the crime scene photos
that were taken in 1996
by the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office
during the search.
This looks like a ligature of some kind.
It's kind of just in the vegetation. Oh!
That one looks like a mandible.
It's not really clear,
but it looks like a mandible.
Just laying in the woods
on a piece of wood.
We've got vertebrae there. We've got ribs.
Uh, femur, humerus.
I have never seen a case
with 10,000 bone fragments and teeth.
It's almost overwhelming.
So for Jeff to take that on is amazing.
[people chattering]
[Steve Ainsworth] So, Jeff,
I've been looking into this case.
I went through
all the Hamilton County Sheriff reports.
I've gone through transcripts
and I've gone through crime scene photos,
and I've got I think I've got
some good information for you.
Well, I'm interested
in hearing what you got, Steve.
Well, let's take a look at it here.
This is a transcript of a conversation
that Baumeister's
business attorney, John Egloff
A phone call that he made
to the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office.
This phone call was made two days
after Herb Baumeister
was found dead in Canada.
- Okay.
- And he says that Herb called him
and he was, like, in a panic.
[Steve Ainsworth reading] "I got a call
from Herb Baumeister last November 29th.
And he started out the conversation
by telling me that five minutes
after he hung up,
he wouldn't be around anymore.
And he went on to tell me
that there would be a note for his wife,
uh, behind a picture of their kids
in the den.
Uh, and, uh, that I wasn't supposed
to call her until later that evening,
apparently to give him time to do
whatever he was gonna do.
I interpreted this as suicide.
He said,
'Well, the businesses are failing.
I can't stand to watch them
being taken apart by bankruptcy.
I have just decided that this is
the best way out for me and my family.'"
Now, what strikes me about this
is that Egloff,
him being an officer of the court,
but him being Baumeister's attorney
- Yeah.
- he's not gonna make,
like, a frivolous phone call
to report something.
So, there's no questioning
if this is legitimate.
I mean, this is bulletproof, basically.
"And I guess this is the part that
is a result of his death
and kind of becomes relevant
that I wanted to pass along."
This is the attorney talking.
"He said that Oh, by the way,
he said that he had gotten involved
with somebody named Mark Goodyear."
And he spells the name.
And he said,
"This guy was a really bad dude.
He said, 'I woke up one night,
and this guy was trying to strangle me.
And he's been kind of stalking me and I
hope that he doesn't come after my family
uh, after I'm gone.
And there's some more information
about this guy above the lockers
in my Westside store.'"
So, none of that was ever found.
The note to his wife,
whatever was above the lockers
in the Westside store,
none of that's ever been found.
I think Baumeister is saying,
"Watch this guy," you know?
"I'm not gonna be around anymore."
- It's obvious he was planning his death.
- Mm-hmm.
For Baumeister to make this panicked call
out of the middle of nowhere
and clearly indicate
that he's gonna commit suicide,
something had to have changed.
Was it the businesses?
No, 'cause they'd been failing
for a while.
The only other thing
had to have been Goodyear.
Obviously, their relationship
is much more than we ever thought
at the very beginning.
I think that Mark Goodyear
has become a threat to him.
I wonder if Goodyear knows about
all of these murders,
and this is the only way out of it.
Maybe Baumeister was thinking,
"If I'm dead
and the police start finding
the bodies at the farm"--
as they were gonna do--
Goodyear would go down for it
because of this letter
and because of this phone call
to his attorney.
I mean, that's that's a possibility.
[Steve Ainsworth] The more we get into it,
the more I'm going,
"What is the deal with this guy?"
It really brings to question
Goodyear's relationship
with Herb Baumeister.
He just didn't get away from him one time
and then never go back.
Goodyear was more than just a survivor.
My dad disappearing
obviously had an effect on me.
You know, there's trauma there.
I mean, I've gone to my fair share
of therapists over and over the years.
According to the Indiana State Police
and the FBI,
my father is still a missing person.
Publicly, it has been stated several times
that my father is most likely a victim
of Herbert Baumeister, but we
have not received any definitive proof
or remains as a result
of the investigation.
There is not a day that goes past
that I don't wish I could talk to my dad.
This is one of those pictures that used
to be a thing at my grandmother's house,
lost for a really long time, and then
my cousin found it and gave it back to me.
[chuckles]
That's how he always smiled.
I mean, this is how he was.
Dad was about 5'2'', 5'3''.
Big, huge, cheesy smile.
He wore round glasses sometimes.
Very, very loud laugh.
The kind you hear across the room
and think it's obnoxious, actually.
Dad was very much into construction.
He had done major, major projects,
like the White River Canal here and
the Bank One Tower, airport expansions,
like, big construction projects.
Later on in life, he was a big,
big advocate for every
all things, you know, LGBTQ rights.
Dad started The Sarj Guide
with his partner, Ray,
which was an LGBTQ-friendly bar guide.
And when he and my mom were divorced,
he sat me down and very matter-of-factly
explained to me that he was gay
and that Ray was his husband.
And that they lived together
just like husband and wife.
It was just a huge relief.
'Cause I think I always knew.
It made me feel better
that it made him feel better.
Saw my dad alive for the last time
on my birthday in 1995.
And I remember at the time being mad
at him because he was supposed to,
you know, spend my birthday with me,
but he was working instead.
But Mom took me to see him.
She was very mad at the time
as well about it.
You know, I gave him a hug,
and he gave me 20 bucks and said,
"I'll see you next weekend."
And that was about it.
It was very unusual for my dad
to disappear mysteriously.
So, the distinct possibility
he'd been murdered was,
you know, there almost from the gate
you know, from the get-go.
I didn't believe it at first.
I thought, he's just gonna show up.
He's on vacation, or, you know,
went to London. Who knows?
There's no, you know, TV moment
where everything was all tied up in a bow
and said, okay, this happened.
There's no closure to any of it.
I wish I could talk to Dad now.
I'd wanna tell him I'm proud of him.
I'm seven years older
now than he ever was.
If I saw somebody that was in their
early 30s doing all this right now,
I'd wanna tell him how proud--
And they should keep going.
Whether I wanted to admit it or not,
there's always been just an anxiety
in the back of my brain about it.
And hopefully
we can put Dad's memory to rest.
[Steve Ainsworth]
This is kind of interesting.
So, this is a transcript of an interview
that was done with a guy
by the name of John Fullam.
And he talks about
when he was picked up by a guy.
And he took him out to that property.
He identified the property of Fox Hollow.
Stayed the night with him and all that.
[detective 1] How long ago was it
you thought you were up at the
possibly at the Baumeister property?
[John Fullam] It was July 4th.
Three years ago.
[detective 1] You met him
at the Metro bar, at what time?
[John Fullam] Probably,
between say eight and nine o'clock.
[detective 1] When you left the Metro,
how did you go?
How did you go in the same car?
[John Fullam] No. I followed him.
I drove.
[detective 1] Okay.
What kind of car was he driving?
[John Fullam]
I think he was driving a truck.
[detective 1] By truck,
are you talking about a pick up truck?
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Do you remember whether it could have been
light color or dark color?
I would say he had a darker colored car.
[detective 1] When you left Metro, I mean,
do you remember
which roads you took to get to the house?
[John Fullam] I came up Meridian,
which becomes what 31, 37?
- 31, right?
- [detective 1] Yeah.
Do you remember anything about
the driveway that you pulled in?
- Or anything about it?
- [John Fullam] It was very long.
The house was set
seemed to be set real far back.
He told me it was a horse farm.
Um, and there was,
uh, fencing.
It looked like there was
a small pasture in the front.
[detective 1] Pasture fence on both sides?
[John Fullam] Yeah.
[Steve Ainsworth] He describes the house
and the property completely.
I mean, it's definitely the house.
And he describes the guy.
He describes the truck that he was in,
and they showed him photographs
of Herb Baumeister.
And this guy who's driving the truck
is not Herb Baumeister.
[detective 1] And it wasn't Herbert
that you were there with?
[John Fullam] No.
This isn't the individual
who you were with right?
That is not him. No.
[John Fullam] It was a guy.
I'm trying to think,
either Michael or Mark.
And he was house-sitting for his boss.
Clearly, it's not Baumeister.
It's somebody else.
And the description of the male
and of the truck
sounds like Mark Goodyear.
[detective 1] Can you describe him to me?
[John Fullam] About 6', 6'1. Slim build.
Facial hair?
No.
So clean shaven?
Yeah.
How long was his hair?
It was straight. It wasn't long.
You know.
- Short crop?
- Yeah.
- Like ours?
- Yeah.
Maybe a little longer than mine.
About how old was this guy?
25, 26.
[Jeff Jellison] In the early '90s,
Mark Goodyear was in his middle 20s.
And Mark Goodyear, um,
in the initial part of the investigation,
was believed to be the sole survivor.
Right. He's played into that
for years and years and years
that, "I was lucky to get away.
And I'm the only one that ever got away.
He killed everybody else."
That's just not true.
So, now we have somebody else
that went to that property,
where we suspect
all of these people were killed
- Mm-hmm.
- and now you've got John Fullam saying
- that he went to that home with Goodyear
- Mm-hmm.
- and he was able to walk away as well.
- Right.
That guy would be a wealth of information.
He would be a wealth of information.
I would love to talk to John Fullam,
but he's no longer with us.
- Right.
- And that's the sad part
because there's so much
that could be done with it.
And then,
we have Mark Goodyear's interview.
Oh, my gosh.
[detective 2] Mark,
give me your full name please.
Mark Anthony Goodyear.
[Steve Ainsworth]
This is the first interview that was done
by Hamilton County Sheriff's Office
of Mark Goodyear
after the remains
are starting to be found.
Up until now, only Mary Wilson,
a detective from Indianapolis PD,
had interviewed him.
[detective 2] Okay, Mark, you say
that you first met this man in '94,
is that correct?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Vaguely, yeah.
I mean this has been a long time ago.
So this detective's talking
about Baumeister and Goodyear
when they first meet and they first go
to the house, he says
[detective 2]
Was it your impression when you left
that cocktails and swimming
might lead up to a sexual encounter?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Well, yeah,
that's why I went there, absolutely.
[detective 2] Okay.
What he's saying here is
he wasn't abducted.
He wasn't forced to go there.
He went there of his own volition.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] He asked me
if I did cocaine, I told him no.
I've never seen him do it,
but I'm sure he was doing it.
And the discussion led into
different types of bondage
or strangulation, asphyxiation.
What he wanted was for me to put,
he showed me how to do it,
put a neck hold on him.
And to strangle him basically.
Had the neck hold on him in the pool,
standing in water.
His eyes are bugging out, lips are
turning purple, the whole nine yards.
He's into it.
I mean this guy's into it.
This description
that he has of what happened,
when he's just doing
this choke hold on him
to make him pass out,
that doesn't happen
with autoerotic asphyxia.
That happens in actual strangulation.
The only way you would know that
is if you've seen it before.
[detective 2] Mark, you say that
he showed you how to this hold.
Is it any different than me
putting my hands around his neck?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] It's done
with the jugular vein, you can breathe.
Now I know this because I've done it
and you can get a high off of it.
[Steve Ainsworth] Seems to me
like he really gets off on that.
He just has too much detail
for having only done it once.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] That was
early morning when he finally passed out.
[detective 2] Okay, and you
spent the night, is that correct?
Yeah.
- And the better part of the morning.
- And where did you sleep at that?
I didn't sleep.
Okay, what room were you in
when you were staying there?
I was in all the rooms that were unlocked,
I was in.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I went into this totally on a wing.
And instinct was telling me from day one
that this guy is a wacko.
I mean he's nuts, he's a crazy man.
You know, I was very fearful of him,
and that's not something
I usually am with people.
I'm not very leery.
And this guy here, I know he's offed
some people, I know for a fact he has.
I mean there's no suggestion in my mind
about it, he's done it.
That's the impression I got from him
the second we walked into that house.
[Steve Ainsworth] This is odd to me.
So Goodyear says
throughout this whole interview
that he is scared to death of Baumeister.
Why don't you get out
of the house and leave?
[detective 2]
Then when did you see him again?
Or did you guys exchange
names or numbers or anything?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] I gave him my
number, he called, he called, he called.
Okay, so he would call you
numerous times,
and then you subsequently
ran into him again?
I invited him over for dinner once.
[Steve Ainsworth] Who does that?
So you're scared to death,
but you invite him over for dinner?
He stayed all for 15 minutes maybe.
I can't get into the mind
of these detectives
as to why they're not pressing him.
They're not really challenging him
on anything.
I tried to get a photograph of him there,
I had a camera,
I asked if I could have a picture,
he said no.
I tried to sneak it, he wouldn't let me.
They might just be getting
this statement right now, and going,
"Okay. I have to believe
that he was there only once."
But then when he says,
"Then I invited him to dinner."
And it's in the same interview.
"You did what?"
[detective 2] You've been a big help.
We appreciate your time.
[Steve Ainsworth] Explain that to me.
Certainly a different picture
than you're the survivor of
- this suspected monster.
- Right.
- Yeah. So come over and have dinner.
- Yeah, come over
- and let's cook burgers out on the grill.
- Oh, my gosh.
There's so much to it. [sighs]
You know, the video that was taken
out there by the paranormal researchers?
- Mm-hmm.
- You know, I just don't even know what
I don't even know
where to start with that.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Let's go downstairs, I'll show you.
[Jane] Okay.
[Russ] You're gonna take your shoes?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Nah. Just leave them out here.
So we came in through the kitchen.
There's no electricity.
Everything is turned off but the breakers.
These stairs were carpeted.
Kept trying to get me to go in here.
And I wouldn't go.
I think he was trying
to get me back in here.
And gonna shoot me.
[Jane] Was there a gun in this area then?
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Yeah.
- [Jane] Where would he have kept the gun?
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Lockers.
- [Russ] In the lockers.
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Lockers.
- [Russ] Did you see the gun?
Not that night.
[Steve Ainsworth] He said he knew
he had a gun, but he never saw it.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
In August of '94 I did not see his gun.
And he was trying to get him
in the bathroom to shoot him
with the gun that he kept in the locker
that he never saw.
That doesn't make any sense.
Why would you say that
if you were only there once?
That indicates he's been there
more than one time.
[Jane] Did you say
there was somebody in here?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Yeah.
What appeared to be a dead body.
I, I, I mean,
it could have been a mannequin done up.
I don't know. I mean,
I did not walk over to investigate
or anything.
I was terrified.
I was absolutely terrified.
That's what was behind that door.
Never told the police.
Never told the police any of this stuff.
Sure would have been helpful at the time.
So, on the video,
I didn't see Goodyear's face
'cause it wasn't really shown on there.
He's doing a home showing.
- [Jeff Jellison] Right.
- Or a museum tour.
I mean, that's what it seems like.
Because he seems
very comfortable in there.
And he's sitting there, you know,
all relaxed, crossing his legs.
One of the things I noticed
was he wasn't wearing any shoes.
And, you know, he has recently found God.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I know that my God is real.
Okay, and I want to say
that in this place.
During all of this that's going on,
- there was an angel.
- [Jane] Hmm.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
There was my God.
Standing right there with me
the entire time.
[Steve Ainsworth] I started thinking,
biblically, when you take your shoes off,
- it's because you're on holy ground.
- Right.
You know, like when Moses
saw the burning bush and God told him,
put thy shoes off thy feet because
where thou standest is holy ground.
I'm thinking, I wonder if he thinks of
that house and those grounds
as being holy ground somehow.
[Russ] You're gonna take your shoes?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Nah. Just leave them out here.
[Jeff Jellison] At the very least,
he has an affection for that property.
Right. And that's a good way to put it.
"Has an affection."
I was gonna say even a reverence for it.
Absolutely. Yeah.
But also, I remember reading
that Goodyear admits
that he lied to the police
to help them get a warrant.
- Yeah. Yeah.
- He makes that statement.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
You guys have to understand something.
I spent a lot of years
trying to convince people of a story.
There was one point where I said,
"Oh fine! Fuck it. I was attacked!"
[Steve Ainsworth]
He came out of the gate lying to 'em,
and he says it was because he just
wanted to get their attention.
Well, he got their attention, all right.
But he's lying to 'em
about critical things.
So what else is he lying about?
I think at the very minimum--
- He knew what was happening.
- Right.
And I think he probably was involved
with Baumeister.
[Adam Williams]
About probably a year or two years ago,
while I was going back into some
of the places that Dad, you know,
worked on and seeing
what they are now is amazing.
Well, Metro is a really good example.
That building was, you know,
just a hollowed-out shell.
And they turned it into something,
you know, completely different.
He loved going into places like that
and seeing what could be done
to have it redone.
Well, it makes me sad
because I liked Jerry a lot.
He was a big part of the community.
Ray Comer was the contractor
remodeling the bar.
And Jerry was helping him.
And Jerry also was helping
the owner of the bar
plan how we were going
to lay it out and all that stuff.
And Jerry was the one
that really sat down with us and said,
"You ought to do this and this and this."
And, you know, we would decide
what we really wanted to do with it.
So he was a good guy.
When Ray came in that day
and said Jerry's missing
and we can't find him,
it was a surprise, shock.
Ray was extremely distraught.
He went to New Orleans.
He went to the Keys trying to find him.
I mean, if my fiancée disappeared,
I would never stop looking.
I didn't really have any contact
with Ray immediately after.
You know,
the family basically isolated me.
I don't think they wanted me to hear
about what was happening
to shield me from the reality of it.
As an adult,
then I started looking into it.
From what I know, they found Dad's car
in the mall parking lot
with quite a bit of cash.
Unlocked.
Dad's not a big fan of that mall
or malls in general,
and this is not his part of town, which,
all of that, was extremely unusual.
It would appear that Dad met Herb
because Baumeister owned
a couple of thrift stores.
And Dad was actively involved
in clothing drives and food drives
for people that were displaced,
that were LGBTQ and things like that.
And, you know, Dad loved going
to thrift shops and finding random stuff
that he could repurpose for the bars
or, you know, whatever.
Herb and Dad traveled
in many of the same circles.
And, you know,
frequented a lot of the same places.
I can totally see Dad going
to some rich guy's farm.
You know, that was gonna donate
a bunch of clothes
for all this and just being caught up
in all of that.
I could totally see that happening
very easily.
In talking to different experts,
Herb was very calculated in knowing who
what kind of victim he was looking for.
I think he was looking for guys
who were least likely to cause problems.
The one thing
that I never understood was,
how exactly did he get these people
to go with him?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I never participated in harming anybody,
I never participated in abducting anybody,
luring anybody, attracting anybody.
I never contributed in any way knowingly
to anything like that.
I just didn't.
I would stand up on the furniture,
scream out loud,
tell everybody in the room, "Don't be
alone with him, don't leave with him."
"He's the killer, he's the killer,"
just loud as I could scream it.
Why would he say "luring them"
or enticing them to come to the property?
I mean, it
All indication is that Baumeister
is the one that picked these people up.
But Goodyear is saying
I didn't entice anybody.
Well, somebody did, and I just don't
understand why he would go there.
My personal belief is that my dad
had an acquaintance
who was friends with Herb Baumeister.
And that was how
he kind of lured him out.
That is my belief, anyway.
I have no basis in fact
on that or evidence.
But that's my personal thought.
One suspected victim,
he's in a relationship,
committed relationship,
for four or five years.
It doesn't match any of
the other profiles other than being gay.
And yet, he ends up likely being
a victim of Baumeister.
- Now, how does that happen?
- Yeah.
I heard from friends of my dad's
that Mark Goodyear was friends
with Dad and Ray through Our Place, maybe.
I think that Mark Goodyear
was very well-known
in the gay community at that time.
So was Baumeister
using Goodyear as that bait?
As bait.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
Is he using him as bait? He says,
"Hey, I know this rich guy.
You ought to see this house."
And they go out to the house.
[doorbell rings]
- Hi, Rob? Steve Ainsworth.
- Yes. Steve? Steve, nice to meet you.
- I'm Rob. Nice to meet you.
- Yeah. Yeah. Rob, good to meet you.
[Steve Ainsworth] When I go to a site
where a murder has happened,
a cold case has happened,
I'm really looking for orientation.
I'm really looking for
[sighs]
to get a feel for the scene.
What does it look like?
What does it smell like?
What does it sound like?
That's gonna help to answer or expand
that particular part of the investigation.
If you're just reading the reports
and then trying to envision it
in your mind and all that kind of stuff,
that doesn't do that much.
But to actually be there and know what
happened, a whole different ball game.
So, Steve, this is the area where the
authorities told me the mulch pile was.
And they termed it a mulch pile
because this is the area
where he was collecting
all of the debris from the farm:
limbs, leaves, grass clippings.
And he was placing the bodies
in the mulch pile
and then cover them up with that debris.
Have you ever found any bones or anything?
Yeah, we found, over the years
I found maybe ten or 12.
We did find a rib in this area.
This land here is virtually
undisturbed since that time.
The anthropologist,
he believed they had collected
about 50% of
what potentially could be here.
[Steve Ainsworth]
From the property? About 50%?
- That was what he told me, yeah.
- [Steve Ainsworth] Wow.
So the burn pile is
Is it right here? Outside the patio?
No. No. Um
The burn pile was actually
farther in the woods.
Oh, 'cause a video I saw,
Goodyear is saying that the burn pile's,
like, right here at the patio.
Right here
was a burn pile.
You could clearly see
what was in that burn pile.
There was no effort to hide anything.
There was no effort to
do anything like that.
It was there for anybody
who looked out that window to see.
[Robert Graves] No. I think he was
mistaken. Mark's mistaken on a lot.
The woods did actually come up
much closer to the house,
but the actual burn pile
is into the woods this way.
- Let's go take a look.
- [Robert Graves] Yeah.
- So it was in the woods?
- It was.
[Robert Graves]
This is also the area where, in 1994,
his son found a complete skeleton.
The theory is that after his son
found this skeleton,
he realized now someone
has seen something,
and he went through the woods and
collected the bones that he could find
and started burning 'em here
and breaking 'em into small pieces.
- And did it here?
- In this area right here.
And that's where the majority of
the fragments were concentrated.
And the authorities also told me that,
in this area, they found a light
that was sort of stuck on a tree.
And I think an extension cord.
- So
- A light?
I think he might have been
doing this in the evening.
[Steve Ainsworth] So there were woods
all the way up
almost to the house back then. Yeah?
[Robert Graves] Correct.
I've picked up, I've dragged,
- I've carried dead bodies before.
- Right.
And going through woods like this
that's a daunting task.
If you're dragging through
this kind of stuff
- Right. Well
- I don't think you do it by yourself.
It's much easier with two people,
obviously. Or more.
You know, at least you have one person
in front with their back to it
and breaking the brush
while you're getting through there.
This would be impossible to do,
especially for one person.
He had to have somebody help him.
Tell me about Mark Goodyear.
What do you think his relationship
with Herb was?
Mark, of course, is the one person
that Herb didn't kill.
How much do you think he knew?
Well, you know, I think initially these
were his friends that were disappearing.
And I think eventually he put it together
that this might be
what's happening to them.
And Mark's really the person that
brought the authorities to the property.
I would characterize him
as a hero in this,
because this could have gone on
indefinitely if Mark didn't say something.
I mean, I've just seen statements
that Mark made,
and he gives knowledge that
he shouldn't have had unless he was there.
- Right.
- Do you know about that?
I can't explain why.
So in a phone call that Herb made
to his attorney, he says,
"I left a note behind the picture
for Julie and for the kids,"
- warning them about Mark Goodyear.
- Yeah.
And he was dangerous.
What do you make of that?
- Have you ever found that note? Okay.
- I never found the note.
I don't know that Mark would have done
anything to put anybody in harm's way.
Mmm. I wonder.
I saw a video of Mark.
He was completely comfortable here.
It just seemed odd to me.
Does that seem odd to you?
It does. He's a bit of a showman.
He does like to embellish.
Uh-huh. And when you say embellish,
what do you mean by that?
Uh, I just I You know
In one statement,
he said he lied to the police.
Why do you think he did that?
I-I-I really don't know. Um, you know
[stammers] A lot of people
wanna be involved with things, maybe.
And, uh, maybe he was trying to insert
himself more than he really was involved.
Mm-hmm.
Because I've been in investigations
like this before, where, you know,
you're investigating this guy,
and they take their life,
and you go, "Well, that's that."
Well, not necessarily. Because you have
these unidentified people.
And are there any loose ends
that need to be tied up?
And I'm just wondering if they
if they're looking into Mark
and they said, "Well, that's that."
You know?
As far as the murders, I don't
I don't believe Mark was involved.
[Steve Ainsworth] This is some cordage,
and it looked like
it was red at one time.
- Mm-hmm. I Steve, I've not seen
- Have you seen that?
these photographs before.
- You haven't?
- Very interesting.
So that has a noose in it right there,
- or a slipknot. Yeah.
- A slipknot. Yeah.
[Jeff Jellison] You know, when you
look at slipknots at a crime scene,
and you don't know cause of death,
was this cord used to strangle somebody?
Or was it used to maybe restrain somebody?
Right. Now this
Does that look like
a hinged handcuff to you?
- It does. Yeah.
- Yeah.
There's no doubt that's what that is.
[Steve Ainsworth]
Yeah. They were found with remains.
This is something I think
you and I talked about before.
Are these shotgun shells out there
because somebody was hunting rabbits
or birds
or something like that out there?
Or are these shotgun shells
because somebody was shot with a shotgun?
[Jeff Jellison] We know
we had people killed on that property.
It's not just a coincidence that you have
shotgun shells and handcuffs
- intermingled with human remains.
- Right.
You know, I'm only trying to focus it
on that cause of death and
Mm-hmm.
[Jeff Jellison] I don't discredit
the theory that this went on in the pool.
But I gotta keep going back to,
how does one man drag a body
or take a body
100, 200 yards into a woods.
That's my question.
But also,
I keep going back to these handcuffs,
these ligatures,
these shotgun shells
that were found back there,
and that certainly speaks to me
the solution to dragging
somebody back there.
Right. Right.
You don't have to drag 'em back there.
You walk 'em back there.
- You make 'em walk back there.
- Right. Right.
And the other thing
I was thinking when I was there,
everything that we have
comes from Goodyear.
Everything about the pool.
Everything about the victims.
He could be making all of this up.
Now, this is probably
the most damaging statement
of all of these things.
This is a statement with a guy
by the name of LeRoy Bray,
again with Hamilton County
Sheriff's detectives.
He was a player off and on
in the downtown gay community.
[Steve Ainsworth]
So he goes out to this place one time,
there's supposed to be
a surprise party of some kind.
And there's drinking and everything,
and he says,
"I was given a drink of whiskey and Coke.
First, I had a Coke,
and I told him I wasn't drinking,
and they talked me into drinking
a whiskey and Coke the second drink.
I think they laced it
because what happened next was
I was asked to step outside.
And I thought we were having
a barbecue or something.
And I was introduced to
several different people,
one of them being Mark Goodyear.
Anyway, when we got to the patio,
the back part of the house,
I sit around and I said,
'Well, what's going on?'"
"'You know, we're just going to, uh,
try to, uh, do some theatrical stuff.
You know, like plays and stuff like that.'
And I said,
'Well, uh, yeah, sure, I'm game.'"
"This guy came out in
some kind of big raincoat, a hat,
and he had a mask on.
Anyway, these kids,
these young guys came out,
one being Mark Goodyear,
and another kid I didn't recognize."
"The kid goes,
'Hey, baby. What's going on?'
The guy with the big coat said,
'Hey, he's what's going on.'
And he took a pistol and shot him
while he was on the patio.
Three times at least.
Two or three times,
and then he walked over
- and shot him with a shotgun."
- [blast]
"And then he came back over to me
and held the shotgun on me.
And then he had someone hold the shotgun
while he took all this stuff off.
And he said, 'Surprise.'
Like that.
And then I took off running
with Danny Coover."
He says that guy was Herb Baumeister.
[Jeff Jellison] This is crazy.
So this guy is saying
he watched a person that
he assumed to be Herb Baumeister
shoot another guy right in front of him?
Mm-hmm. On the patio.
Because this guy, LeRoy Bray,
he said he dated Herb a couple of times.
So he knew who he was.
I mean, the whole thing is so bizarre
and so odd, right?
Okay, so this is even better right here.
Detective says, "'Okay. Did anybody else
participate in the shooting?'
'Only the people that saw it happen,
they must have.'
'And Mark Goodyear saw
this shooting happen?'"
He says, "'Yes.
He was standing right behind the kid
when it happened.
A matter of fact, they held his arms.'"
So Goodyear held this guy's arms
Mm-hmm.
while, we assume, Baumeister shot him.
Have you seen anything that indicates
law enforcement
directly confronted Goodyear
- about this statement that this guy made?
- No.
No, there's absolutely nothing.
And the statements I've seen,
the reports I've seen,
nobody talked to any of these people.
And this is the only place that
that shooting is mentioned.
I see Goodyear's name
in almost everything that I read.
All of the interviews.
All of the supplementary reports.
Almost all of them.
Every single person they talk to,
"Yeah, I know Mark Goodyear.
He did this or he did that.
And he was with Baumeister.
And he did all of this other stuff."
So here's where I am with Goodyear.
There are so many things that you could
sit down and pick apart with him.
And tell him, "You said this.
What about this?
What about this? What about this?"
I'd like to take a run at Goodyear,
but I don't have the authority anymore.
If somebody can interview him,
I would love to show
what all of the contradictions are
and then just start hammering him
with those contradictions.
Because I think
he'd get flustered very quickly.
Okay. So this is my seat, huh?
[Alex] That's right.
Actually if you could
sit a little bit closer,
just 'cause we've got
the light set up to hit that.
All right.
[Alex] So it's just gonna be a
conversation between you and I, you know?
And, um, what's going on?
Ooh
- [Alex] Are you taking off your shoes?
- I always do.
[Alex] So, Mark, and you're just gonna
look at me if you can.
Okay.
[Alex] First, if you could
just introduce yourself.
Okay.
[Alex]
And tell us your relation to this case.
Okay.
Well, hello, everybody.
This is Mark Goodyear.
Yeah. [exhales]
Um
Let me ask you. What do you think?
Am I the evil culprit? The accomplice?
I'd like to know
how the audience views me.
[Russ] Recording.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Let's go downstairs, I'll show you.
[Jane] Okay.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
These stairs were carpeted.
Okay these steps right here.
He'd sit right here down in this water,
enjoying that jet.
And tell his stories.
I can remember some of the things he said.
It was, uh, talking about
the facial
issues of a dying person.
Okay and this stimulated him sexually,
to talk about this, and you were
supposed to say it back to him.
So that he could
finish his arousal.
You understand?
[Jane]
Do you still believe that he had help?
That somebody else was involved?
[Mark Anthony Good8year] Had to be.
Like I say, in your darkest hour,
standing in hell with the devil,
God is there, and his angels are there,
and it is the truth.
You can rest assured that I believe
with everything I have,
that these victims,
right down to the most solitary victim,
are in a state of perfection and grace.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear on computer]
And so we just fill up
with that joy and satisfaction
and we're thankful for them.
And we say thank you so much
for each and every one of these.
The time that we did have together.
Thank you. It was beautiful.
[Steve Ainsworth] There are a lot
of things to like about being a detective.
You don't go see the same thing every day.
When my pager would go off
at three o'clock in the morning,
it wasn't like,
"Oh, crap. Now I gotta go do something."
It would be,
"I'm gonna go see something
that most people will never see
in their entire lives."
And not only that, I'm responsible
for figuring out what happened.
[grunts]
I've been a police officer
for just about 44 years.
And I am currently working as a consultant
for Cold Case Homicides
and Unidentified Human Remains.
I was a detective
for about 31 and a half years.
I worked on several high-profile cases.
Uh, I consulted for the DA's office
in Boulder.
I consulted on the JonBenet Ramsey case
in 1996, 1997.
I worked the Betty Lee Jones homicide
from 1970 for 16 years.
I worked on the Boulder Jane Doe case
from 1954,
where she was found dumped
near Boulder Creek.
Solved that one.
I worked probably
over 2,400 deaths in my career.
I've only had one unsolved homicide.
There's just all kinds
of different fascinating cases.
And it's a giant puzzle.
So the bigger the case,
the more serious the case,
the bigger the puzzle becomes.
And that was the challenge.
I just love the challenge.
So, a case that isn't actively working
and you're out of leads,
that would be a cold case,
and it could be after three months.
It could be after a year.
It could be after five years.
I would go back into cold cases
and look at 'em and go,
"Okay, what can I do with this case
to move it forward
that wasn't done back then?"
Authorities in Hamilton County
are renewing efforts to identify
the remains of more than
a dozen people
found on the former property
of a notorious serial killer.
Investigators believe Herbert Baumeister
killed at least 25 people.
Police have said he--
[Steve Ainsworth] I had never heard of the
Baumeister case until April of last year.
And I got a call from a friend of mine,
who is a retired LAPD homicide detective.
And he says, "Hey, do you know
who Herb Baumeister is?"
And I said, "No, I've never heard of him."
He goes,
"He's a serial killer in Indiana.
Look him up."
I said, "Okay. Well, what's up?"
He goes, "I want you to call this guy,
Jeff Jellison.
He's a coroner out there
in, uh, Hamilton County.
And he is trying to identify
all the victims of this guy."
And so, I got interested,
and I started reading about Baumeister.
The more I read, the more I knew
that we would be able to help him
start identifying these people
and help him to fulfill his mission.
My job is to figure out
how'd these guys die,
and there's a lot of questions.
- Steve!
- What is going on, man?
How are you, buddy?
Steve Ainsworth is
Good to see you.
in my opinion, he's the Michael Jordan
of cold case investigators.
He's been there
with homicide investigations.
He's been there with
unidentified human remain cases.
He's walked this path far ahead of me.
Jeff is one of those guys that does
the right thing for the right reason.
I believe that we gave up
with this investigation.
The criminal investigation
appeared to have ended
when Herb Baumeister killed himself.
We didn't finish our job.
We think alike.
We have the same philosophy.
We have the same morals.
We have the same sense of right and wrong.
Steve Ainsworth assists law enforcement
agencies with cold case investigations.
He's not
the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department.
He's not
the Hamilton County Coroner's Office.
He can look at this case
with some very clear eyes.
And I'll say this,
if there's somebody else out there
that had been involved,
and Steve Ainsworth's dogging them,
they better watch out.
Because he'll catch up with them.
These are the crime scene photos
that were taken in 1996
by the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office
during the search.
This looks like a ligature of some kind.
It's kind of just in the vegetation. Oh!
That one looks like a mandible.
It's not really clear,
but it looks like a mandible.
Just laying in the woods
on a piece of wood.
We've got vertebrae there. We've got ribs.
Uh, femur, humerus.
I have never seen a case
with 10,000 bone fragments and teeth.
It's almost overwhelming.
So for Jeff to take that on is amazing.
[people chattering]
[Steve Ainsworth] So, Jeff,
I've been looking into this case.
I went through
all the Hamilton County Sheriff reports.
I've gone through transcripts
and I've gone through crime scene photos,
and I've got I think I've got
some good information for you.
Well, I'm interested
in hearing what you got, Steve.
Well, let's take a look at it here.
This is a transcript of a conversation
that Baumeister's
business attorney, John Egloff
A phone call that he made
to the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office.
This phone call was made two days
after Herb Baumeister
was found dead in Canada.
- Okay.
- And he says that Herb called him
and he was, like, in a panic.
[Steve Ainsworth reading] "I got a call
from Herb Baumeister last November 29th.
And he started out the conversation
by telling me that five minutes
after he hung up,
he wouldn't be around anymore.
And he went on to tell me
that there would be a note for his wife,
uh, behind a picture of their kids
in the den.
Uh, and, uh, that I wasn't supposed
to call her until later that evening,
apparently to give him time to do
whatever he was gonna do.
I interpreted this as suicide.
He said,
'Well, the businesses are failing.
I can't stand to watch them
being taken apart by bankruptcy.
I have just decided that this is
the best way out for me and my family.'"
Now, what strikes me about this
is that Egloff,
him being an officer of the court,
but him being Baumeister's attorney
- Yeah.
- he's not gonna make,
like, a frivolous phone call
to report something.
So, there's no questioning
if this is legitimate.
I mean, this is bulletproof, basically.
"And I guess this is the part that
is a result of his death
and kind of becomes relevant
that I wanted to pass along."
This is the attorney talking.
"He said that Oh, by the way,
he said that he had gotten involved
with somebody named Mark Goodyear."
And he spells the name.
And he said,
"This guy was a really bad dude.
He said, 'I woke up one night,
and this guy was trying to strangle me.
And he's been kind of stalking me and I
hope that he doesn't come after my family
uh, after I'm gone.
And there's some more information
about this guy above the lockers
in my Westside store.'"
So, none of that was ever found.
The note to his wife,
whatever was above the lockers
in the Westside store,
none of that's ever been found.
I think Baumeister is saying,
"Watch this guy," you know?
"I'm not gonna be around anymore."
- It's obvious he was planning his death.
- Mm-hmm.
For Baumeister to make this panicked call
out of the middle of nowhere
and clearly indicate
that he's gonna commit suicide,
something had to have changed.
Was it the businesses?
No, 'cause they'd been failing
for a while.
The only other thing
had to have been Goodyear.
Obviously, their relationship
is much more than we ever thought
at the very beginning.
I think that Mark Goodyear
has become a threat to him.
I wonder if Goodyear knows about
all of these murders,
and this is the only way out of it.
Maybe Baumeister was thinking,
"If I'm dead
and the police start finding
the bodies at the farm"--
as they were gonna do--
Goodyear would go down for it
because of this letter
and because of this phone call
to his attorney.
I mean, that's that's a possibility.
[Steve Ainsworth] The more we get into it,
the more I'm going,
"What is the deal with this guy?"
It really brings to question
Goodyear's relationship
with Herb Baumeister.
He just didn't get away from him one time
and then never go back.
Goodyear was more than just a survivor.
My dad disappearing
obviously had an effect on me.
You know, there's trauma there.
I mean, I've gone to my fair share
of therapists over and over the years.
According to the Indiana State Police
and the FBI,
my father is still a missing person.
Publicly, it has been stated several times
that my father is most likely a victim
of Herbert Baumeister, but we
have not received any definitive proof
or remains as a result
of the investigation.
There is not a day that goes past
that I don't wish I could talk to my dad.
This is one of those pictures that used
to be a thing at my grandmother's house,
lost for a really long time, and then
my cousin found it and gave it back to me.
[chuckles]
That's how he always smiled.
I mean, this is how he was.
Dad was about 5'2'', 5'3''.
Big, huge, cheesy smile.
He wore round glasses sometimes.
Very, very loud laugh.
The kind you hear across the room
and think it's obnoxious, actually.
Dad was very much into construction.
He had done major, major projects,
like the White River Canal here and
the Bank One Tower, airport expansions,
like, big construction projects.
Later on in life, he was a big,
big advocate for every
all things, you know, LGBTQ rights.
Dad started The Sarj Guide
with his partner, Ray,
which was an LGBTQ-friendly bar guide.
And when he and my mom were divorced,
he sat me down and very matter-of-factly
explained to me that he was gay
and that Ray was his husband.
And that they lived together
just like husband and wife.
It was just a huge relief.
'Cause I think I always knew.
It made me feel better
that it made him feel better.
Saw my dad alive for the last time
on my birthday in 1995.
And I remember at the time being mad
at him because he was supposed to,
you know, spend my birthday with me,
but he was working instead.
But Mom took me to see him.
She was very mad at the time
as well about it.
You know, I gave him a hug,
and he gave me 20 bucks and said,
"I'll see you next weekend."
And that was about it.
It was very unusual for my dad
to disappear mysteriously.
So, the distinct possibility
he'd been murdered was,
you know, there almost from the gate
you know, from the get-go.
I didn't believe it at first.
I thought, he's just gonna show up.
He's on vacation, or, you know,
went to London. Who knows?
There's no, you know, TV moment
where everything was all tied up in a bow
and said, okay, this happened.
There's no closure to any of it.
I wish I could talk to Dad now.
I'd wanna tell him I'm proud of him.
I'm seven years older
now than he ever was.
If I saw somebody that was in their
early 30s doing all this right now,
I'd wanna tell him how proud--
And they should keep going.
Whether I wanted to admit it or not,
there's always been just an anxiety
in the back of my brain about it.
And hopefully
we can put Dad's memory to rest.
[Steve Ainsworth]
This is kind of interesting.
So, this is a transcript of an interview
that was done with a guy
by the name of John Fullam.
And he talks about
when he was picked up by a guy.
And he took him out to that property.
He identified the property of Fox Hollow.
Stayed the night with him and all that.
[detective 1] How long ago was it
you thought you were up at the
possibly at the Baumeister property?
[John Fullam] It was July 4th.
Three years ago.
[detective 1] You met him
at the Metro bar, at what time?
[John Fullam] Probably,
between say eight and nine o'clock.
[detective 1] When you left the Metro,
how did you go?
How did you go in the same car?
[John Fullam] No. I followed him.
I drove.
[detective 1] Okay.
What kind of car was he driving?
[John Fullam]
I think he was driving a truck.
[detective 1] By truck,
are you talking about a pick up truck?
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Do you remember whether it could have been
light color or dark color?
I would say he had a darker colored car.
[detective 1] When you left Metro, I mean,
do you remember
which roads you took to get to the house?
[John Fullam] I came up Meridian,
which becomes what 31, 37?
- 31, right?
- [detective 1] Yeah.
Do you remember anything about
the driveway that you pulled in?
- Or anything about it?
- [John Fullam] It was very long.
The house was set
seemed to be set real far back.
He told me it was a horse farm.
Um, and there was,
uh, fencing.
It looked like there was
a small pasture in the front.
[detective 1] Pasture fence on both sides?
[John Fullam] Yeah.
[Steve Ainsworth] He describes the house
and the property completely.
I mean, it's definitely the house.
And he describes the guy.
He describes the truck that he was in,
and they showed him photographs
of Herb Baumeister.
And this guy who's driving the truck
is not Herb Baumeister.
[detective 1] And it wasn't Herbert
that you were there with?
[John Fullam] No.
This isn't the individual
who you were with right?
That is not him. No.
[John Fullam] It was a guy.
I'm trying to think,
either Michael or Mark.
And he was house-sitting for his boss.
Clearly, it's not Baumeister.
It's somebody else.
And the description of the male
and of the truck
sounds like Mark Goodyear.
[detective 1] Can you describe him to me?
[John Fullam] About 6', 6'1. Slim build.
Facial hair?
No.
So clean shaven?
Yeah.
How long was his hair?
It was straight. It wasn't long.
You know.
- Short crop?
- Yeah.
- Like ours?
- Yeah.
Maybe a little longer than mine.
About how old was this guy?
25, 26.
[Jeff Jellison] In the early '90s,
Mark Goodyear was in his middle 20s.
And Mark Goodyear, um,
in the initial part of the investigation,
was believed to be the sole survivor.
Right. He's played into that
for years and years and years
that, "I was lucky to get away.
And I'm the only one that ever got away.
He killed everybody else."
That's just not true.
So, now we have somebody else
that went to that property,
where we suspect
all of these people were killed
- Mm-hmm.
- and now you've got John Fullam saying
- that he went to that home with Goodyear
- Mm-hmm.
- and he was able to walk away as well.
- Right.
That guy would be a wealth of information.
He would be a wealth of information.
I would love to talk to John Fullam,
but he's no longer with us.
- Right.
- And that's the sad part
because there's so much
that could be done with it.
And then,
we have Mark Goodyear's interview.
Oh, my gosh.
[detective 2] Mark,
give me your full name please.
Mark Anthony Goodyear.
[Steve Ainsworth]
This is the first interview that was done
by Hamilton County Sheriff's Office
of Mark Goodyear
after the remains
are starting to be found.
Up until now, only Mary Wilson,
a detective from Indianapolis PD,
had interviewed him.
[detective 2] Okay, Mark, you say
that you first met this man in '94,
is that correct?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Vaguely, yeah.
I mean this has been a long time ago.
So this detective's talking
about Baumeister and Goodyear
when they first meet and they first go
to the house, he says
[detective 2]
Was it your impression when you left
that cocktails and swimming
might lead up to a sexual encounter?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Well, yeah,
that's why I went there, absolutely.
[detective 2] Okay.
What he's saying here is
he wasn't abducted.
He wasn't forced to go there.
He went there of his own volition.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] He asked me
if I did cocaine, I told him no.
I've never seen him do it,
but I'm sure he was doing it.
And the discussion led into
different types of bondage
or strangulation, asphyxiation.
What he wanted was for me to put,
he showed me how to do it,
put a neck hold on him.
And to strangle him basically.
Had the neck hold on him in the pool,
standing in water.
His eyes are bugging out, lips are
turning purple, the whole nine yards.
He's into it.
I mean this guy's into it.
This description
that he has of what happened,
when he's just doing
this choke hold on him
to make him pass out,
that doesn't happen
with autoerotic asphyxia.
That happens in actual strangulation.
The only way you would know that
is if you've seen it before.
[detective 2] Mark, you say that
he showed you how to this hold.
Is it any different than me
putting my hands around his neck?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] It's done
with the jugular vein, you can breathe.
Now I know this because I've done it
and you can get a high off of it.
[Steve Ainsworth] Seems to me
like he really gets off on that.
He just has too much detail
for having only done it once.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] That was
early morning when he finally passed out.
[detective 2] Okay, and you
spent the night, is that correct?
Yeah.
- And the better part of the morning.
- And where did you sleep at that?
I didn't sleep.
Okay, what room were you in
when you were staying there?
I was in all the rooms that were unlocked,
I was in.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I went into this totally on a wing.
And instinct was telling me from day one
that this guy is a wacko.
I mean he's nuts, he's a crazy man.
You know, I was very fearful of him,
and that's not something
I usually am with people.
I'm not very leery.
And this guy here, I know he's offed
some people, I know for a fact he has.
I mean there's no suggestion in my mind
about it, he's done it.
That's the impression I got from him
the second we walked into that house.
[Steve Ainsworth] This is odd to me.
So Goodyear says
throughout this whole interview
that he is scared to death of Baumeister.
Why don't you get out
of the house and leave?
[detective 2]
Then when did you see him again?
Or did you guys exchange
names or numbers or anything?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] I gave him my
number, he called, he called, he called.
Okay, so he would call you
numerous times,
and then you subsequently
ran into him again?
I invited him over for dinner once.
[Steve Ainsworth] Who does that?
So you're scared to death,
but you invite him over for dinner?
He stayed all for 15 minutes maybe.
I can't get into the mind
of these detectives
as to why they're not pressing him.
They're not really challenging him
on anything.
I tried to get a photograph of him there,
I had a camera,
I asked if I could have a picture,
he said no.
I tried to sneak it, he wouldn't let me.
They might just be getting
this statement right now, and going,
"Okay. I have to believe
that he was there only once."
But then when he says,
"Then I invited him to dinner."
And it's in the same interview.
"You did what?"
[detective 2] You've been a big help.
We appreciate your time.
[Steve Ainsworth] Explain that to me.
Certainly a different picture
than you're the survivor of
- this suspected monster.
- Right.
- Yeah. So come over and have dinner.
- Yeah, come over
- and let's cook burgers out on the grill.
- Oh, my gosh.
There's so much to it. [sighs]
You know, the video that was taken
out there by the paranormal researchers?
- Mm-hmm.
- You know, I just don't even know what
I don't even know
where to start with that.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Let's go downstairs, I'll show you.
[Jane] Okay.
[Russ] You're gonna take your shoes?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Nah. Just leave them out here.
So we came in through the kitchen.
There's no electricity.
Everything is turned off but the breakers.
These stairs were carpeted.
Kept trying to get me to go in here.
And I wouldn't go.
I think he was trying
to get me back in here.
And gonna shoot me.
[Jane] Was there a gun in this area then?
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Yeah.
- [Jane] Where would he have kept the gun?
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Lockers.
- [Russ] In the lockers.
- [Mark Anthony Goodyear] Lockers.
- [Russ] Did you see the gun?
Not that night.
[Steve Ainsworth] He said he knew
he had a gun, but he never saw it.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
In August of '94 I did not see his gun.
And he was trying to get him
in the bathroom to shoot him
with the gun that he kept in the locker
that he never saw.
That doesn't make any sense.
Why would you say that
if you were only there once?
That indicates he's been there
more than one time.
[Jane] Did you say
there was somebody in here?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear] Yeah.
What appeared to be a dead body.
I, I, I mean,
it could have been a mannequin done up.
I don't know. I mean,
I did not walk over to investigate
or anything.
I was terrified.
I was absolutely terrified.
That's what was behind that door.
Never told the police.
Never told the police any of this stuff.
Sure would have been helpful at the time.
So, on the video,
I didn't see Goodyear's face
'cause it wasn't really shown on there.
He's doing a home showing.
- [Jeff Jellison] Right.
- Or a museum tour.
I mean, that's what it seems like.
Because he seems
very comfortable in there.
And he's sitting there, you know,
all relaxed, crossing his legs.
One of the things I noticed
was he wasn't wearing any shoes.
And, you know, he has recently found God.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I know that my God is real.
Okay, and I want to say
that in this place.
During all of this that's going on,
- there was an angel.
- [Jane] Hmm.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
There was my God.
Standing right there with me
the entire time.
[Steve Ainsworth] I started thinking,
biblically, when you take your shoes off,
- it's because you're on holy ground.
- Right.
You know, like when Moses
saw the burning bush and God told him,
put thy shoes off thy feet because
where thou standest is holy ground.
I'm thinking, I wonder if he thinks of
that house and those grounds
as being holy ground somehow.
[Russ] You're gonna take your shoes?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
Nah. Just leave them out here.
[Jeff Jellison] At the very least,
he has an affection for that property.
Right. And that's a good way to put it.
"Has an affection."
I was gonna say even a reverence for it.
Absolutely. Yeah.
But also, I remember reading
that Goodyear admits
that he lied to the police
to help them get a warrant.
- Yeah. Yeah.
- He makes that statement.
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
You guys have to understand something.
I spent a lot of years
trying to convince people of a story.
There was one point where I said,
"Oh fine! Fuck it. I was attacked!"
[Steve Ainsworth]
He came out of the gate lying to 'em,
and he says it was because he just
wanted to get their attention.
Well, he got their attention, all right.
But he's lying to 'em
about critical things.
So what else is he lying about?
I think at the very minimum--
- He knew what was happening.
- Right.
And I think he probably was involved
with Baumeister.
[Adam Williams]
About probably a year or two years ago,
while I was going back into some
of the places that Dad, you know,
worked on and seeing
what they are now is amazing.
Well, Metro is a really good example.
That building was, you know,
just a hollowed-out shell.
And they turned it into something,
you know, completely different.
He loved going into places like that
and seeing what could be done
to have it redone.
Well, it makes me sad
because I liked Jerry a lot.
He was a big part of the community.
Ray Comer was the contractor
remodeling the bar.
And Jerry was helping him.
And Jerry also was helping
the owner of the bar
plan how we were going
to lay it out and all that stuff.
And Jerry was the one
that really sat down with us and said,
"You ought to do this and this and this."
And, you know, we would decide
what we really wanted to do with it.
So he was a good guy.
When Ray came in that day
and said Jerry's missing
and we can't find him,
it was a surprise, shock.
Ray was extremely distraught.
He went to New Orleans.
He went to the Keys trying to find him.
I mean, if my fiancée disappeared,
I would never stop looking.
I didn't really have any contact
with Ray immediately after.
You know,
the family basically isolated me.
I don't think they wanted me to hear
about what was happening
to shield me from the reality of it.
As an adult,
then I started looking into it.
From what I know, they found Dad's car
in the mall parking lot
with quite a bit of cash.
Unlocked.
Dad's not a big fan of that mall
or malls in general,
and this is not his part of town, which,
all of that, was extremely unusual.
It would appear that Dad met Herb
because Baumeister owned
a couple of thrift stores.
And Dad was actively involved
in clothing drives and food drives
for people that were displaced,
that were LGBTQ and things like that.
And, you know, Dad loved going
to thrift shops and finding random stuff
that he could repurpose for the bars
or, you know, whatever.
Herb and Dad traveled
in many of the same circles.
And, you know,
frequented a lot of the same places.
I can totally see Dad going
to some rich guy's farm.
You know, that was gonna donate
a bunch of clothes
for all this and just being caught up
in all of that.
I could totally see that happening
very easily.
In talking to different experts,
Herb was very calculated in knowing who
what kind of victim he was looking for.
I think he was looking for guys
who were least likely to cause problems.
The one thing
that I never understood was,
how exactly did he get these people
to go with him?
[Mark Anthony Goodyear]
I never participated in harming anybody,
I never participated in abducting anybody,
luring anybody, attracting anybody.
I never contributed in any way knowingly
to anything like that.
I just didn't.
I would stand up on the furniture,
scream out loud,
tell everybody in the room, "Don't be
alone with him, don't leave with him."
"He's the killer, he's the killer,"
just loud as I could scream it.
Why would he say "luring them"
or enticing them to come to the property?
I mean, it
All indication is that Baumeister
is the one that picked these people up.
But Goodyear is saying
I didn't entice anybody.
Well, somebody did, and I just don't
understand why he would go there.
My personal belief is that my dad
had an acquaintance
who was friends with Herb Baumeister.
And that was how
he kind of lured him out.
That is my belief, anyway.
I have no basis in fact
on that or evidence.
But that's my personal thought.
One suspected victim,
he's in a relationship,
committed relationship,
for four or five years.
It doesn't match any of
the other profiles other than being gay.
And yet, he ends up likely being
a victim of Baumeister.
- Now, how does that happen?
- Yeah.
I heard from friends of my dad's
that Mark Goodyear was friends
with Dad and Ray through Our Place, maybe.
I think that Mark Goodyear
was very well-known
in the gay community at that time.
So was Baumeister
using Goodyear as that bait?
As bait.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
Is he using him as bait? He says,
"Hey, I know this rich guy.
You ought to see this house."
And they go out to the house.
[doorbell rings]
- Hi, Rob? Steve Ainsworth.
- Yes. Steve? Steve, nice to meet you.
- I'm Rob. Nice to meet you.
- Yeah. Yeah. Rob, good to meet you.
[Steve Ainsworth] When I go to a site
where a murder has happened,
a cold case has happened,
I'm really looking for orientation.
I'm really looking for
[sighs]
to get a feel for the scene.
What does it look like?
What does it smell like?
What does it sound like?
That's gonna help to answer or expand
that particular part of the investigation.
If you're just reading the reports
and then trying to envision it
in your mind and all that kind of stuff,
that doesn't do that much.
But to actually be there and know what
happened, a whole different ball game.
So, Steve, this is the area where the
authorities told me the mulch pile was.
And they termed it a mulch pile
because this is the area
where he was collecting
all of the debris from the farm:
limbs, leaves, grass clippings.
And he was placing the bodies
in the mulch pile
and then cover them up with that debris.
Have you ever found any bones or anything?
Yeah, we found, over the years
I found maybe ten or 12.
We did find a rib in this area.
This land here is virtually
undisturbed since that time.
The anthropologist,
he believed they had collected
about 50% of
what potentially could be here.
[Steve Ainsworth]
From the property? About 50%?
- That was what he told me, yeah.
- [Steve Ainsworth] Wow.
So the burn pile is
Is it right here? Outside the patio?
No. No. Um
The burn pile was actually
farther in the woods.
Oh, 'cause a video I saw,
Goodyear is saying that the burn pile's,
like, right here at the patio.
Right here
was a burn pile.
You could clearly see
what was in that burn pile.
There was no effort to hide anything.
There was no effort to
do anything like that.
It was there for anybody
who looked out that window to see.
[Robert Graves] No. I think he was
mistaken. Mark's mistaken on a lot.
The woods did actually come up
much closer to the house,
but the actual burn pile
is into the woods this way.
- Let's go take a look.
- [Robert Graves] Yeah.
- So it was in the woods?
- It was.
[Robert Graves]
This is also the area where, in 1994,
his son found a complete skeleton.
The theory is that after his son
found this skeleton,
he realized now someone
has seen something,
and he went through the woods and
collected the bones that he could find
and started burning 'em here
and breaking 'em into small pieces.
- And did it here?
- In this area right here.
And that's where the majority of
the fragments were concentrated.
And the authorities also told me that,
in this area, they found a light
that was sort of stuck on a tree.
And I think an extension cord.
- So
- A light?
I think he might have been
doing this in the evening.
[Steve Ainsworth] So there were woods
all the way up
almost to the house back then. Yeah?
[Robert Graves] Correct.
I've picked up, I've dragged,
- I've carried dead bodies before.
- Right.
And going through woods like this
that's a daunting task.
If you're dragging through
this kind of stuff
- Right. Well
- I don't think you do it by yourself.
It's much easier with two people,
obviously. Or more.
You know, at least you have one person
in front with their back to it
and breaking the brush
while you're getting through there.
This would be impossible to do,
especially for one person.
He had to have somebody help him.
Tell me about Mark Goodyear.
What do you think his relationship
with Herb was?
Mark, of course, is the one person
that Herb didn't kill.
How much do you think he knew?
Well, you know, I think initially these
were his friends that were disappearing.
And I think eventually he put it together
that this might be
what's happening to them.
And Mark's really the person that
brought the authorities to the property.
I would characterize him
as a hero in this,
because this could have gone on
indefinitely if Mark didn't say something.
I mean, I've just seen statements
that Mark made,
and he gives knowledge that
he shouldn't have had unless he was there.
- Right.
- Do you know about that?
I can't explain why.
So in a phone call that Herb made
to his attorney, he says,
"I left a note behind the picture
for Julie and for the kids,"
- warning them about Mark Goodyear.
- Yeah.
And he was dangerous.
What do you make of that?
- Have you ever found that note? Okay.
- I never found the note.
I don't know that Mark would have done
anything to put anybody in harm's way.
Mmm. I wonder.
I saw a video of Mark.
He was completely comfortable here.
It just seemed odd to me.
Does that seem odd to you?
It does. He's a bit of a showman.
He does like to embellish.
Uh-huh. And when you say embellish,
what do you mean by that?
Uh, I just I You know
In one statement,
he said he lied to the police.
Why do you think he did that?
I-I-I really don't know. Um, you know
[stammers] A lot of people
wanna be involved with things, maybe.
And, uh, maybe he was trying to insert
himself more than he really was involved.
Mm-hmm.
Because I've been in investigations
like this before, where, you know,
you're investigating this guy,
and they take their life,
and you go, "Well, that's that."
Well, not necessarily. Because you have
these unidentified people.
And are there any loose ends
that need to be tied up?
And I'm just wondering if they
if they're looking into Mark
and they said, "Well, that's that."
You know?
As far as the murders, I don't
I don't believe Mark was involved.
[Steve Ainsworth] This is some cordage,
and it looked like
it was red at one time.
- Mm-hmm. I Steve, I've not seen
- Have you seen that?
these photographs before.
- You haven't?
- Very interesting.
So that has a noose in it right there,
- or a slipknot. Yeah.
- A slipknot. Yeah.
[Jeff Jellison] You know, when you
look at slipknots at a crime scene,
and you don't know cause of death,
was this cord used to strangle somebody?
Or was it used to maybe restrain somebody?
Right. Now this
Does that look like
a hinged handcuff to you?
- It does. Yeah.
- Yeah.
There's no doubt that's what that is.
[Steve Ainsworth]
Yeah. They were found with remains.
This is something I think
you and I talked about before.
Are these shotgun shells out there
because somebody was hunting rabbits
or birds
or something like that out there?
Or are these shotgun shells
because somebody was shot with a shotgun?
[Jeff Jellison] We know
we had people killed on that property.
It's not just a coincidence that you have
shotgun shells and handcuffs
- intermingled with human remains.
- Right.
You know, I'm only trying to focus it
on that cause of death and
Mm-hmm.
[Jeff Jellison] I don't discredit
the theory that this went on in the pool.
But I gotta keep going back to,
how does one man drag a body
or take a body
100, 200 yards into a woods.
That's my question.
But also,
I keep going back to these handcuffs,
these ligatures,
these shotgun shells
that were found back there,
and that certainly speaks to me
the solution to dragging
somebody back there.
Right. Right.
You don't have to drag 'em back there.
You walk 'em back there.
- You make 'em walk back there.
- Right. Right.
And the other thing
I was thinking when I was there,
everything that we have
comes from Goodyear.
Everything about the pool.
Everything about the victims.
He could be making all of this up.
Now, this is probably
the most damaging statement
of all of these things.
This is a statement with a guy
by the name of LeRoy Bray,
again with Hamilton County
Sheriff's detectives.
He was a player off and on
in the downtown gay community.
[Steve Ainsworth]
So he goes out to this place one time,
there's supposed to be
a surprise party of some kind.
And there's drinking and everything,
and he says,
"I was given a drink of whiskey and Coke.
First, I had a Coke,
and I told him I wasn't drinking,
and they talked me into drinking
a whiskey and Coke the second drink.
I think they laced it
because what happened next was
I was asked to step outside.
And I thought we were having
a barbecue or something.
And I was introduced to
several different people,
one of them being Mark Goodyear.
Anyway, when we got to the patio,
the back part of the house,
I sit around and I said,
'Well, what's going on?'"
"'You know, we're just going to, uh,
try to, uh, do some theatrical stuff.
You know, like plays and stuff like that.'
And I said,
'Well, uh, yeah, sure, I'm game.'"
"This guy came out in
some kind of big raincoat, a hat,
and he had a mask on.
Anyway, these kids,
these young guys came out,
one being Mark Goodyear,
and another kid I didn't recognize."
"The kid goes,
'Hey, baby. What's going on?'
The guy with the big coat said,
'Hey, he's what's going on.'
And he took a pistol and shot him
while he was on the patio.
Three times at least.
Two or three times,
and then he walked over
- and shot him with a shotgun."
- [blast]
"And then he came back over to me
and held the shotgun on me.
And then he had someone hold the shotgun
while he took all this stuff off.
And he said, 'Surprise.'
Like that.
And then I took off running
with Danny Coover."
He says that guy was Herb Baumeister.
[Jeff Jellison] This is crazy.
So this guy is saying
he watched a person that
he assumed to be Herb Baumeister
shoot another guy right in front of him?
Mm-hmm. On the patio.
Because this guy, LeRoy Bray,
he said he dated Herb a couple of times.
So he knew who he was.
I mean, the whole thing is so bizarre
and so odd, right?
Okay, so this is even better right here.
Detective says, "'Okay. Did anybody else
participate in the shooting?'
'Only the people that saw it happen,
they must have.'
'And Mark Goodyear saw
this shooting happen?'"
He says, "'Yes.
He was standing right behind the kid
when it happened.
A matter of fact, they held his arms.'"
So Goodyear held this guy's arms
Mm-hmm.
while, we assume, Baumeister shot him.
Have you seen anything that indicates
law enforcement
directly confronted Goodyear
- about this statement that this guy made?
- No.
No, there's absolutely nothing.
And the statements I've seen,
the reports I've seen,
nobody talked to any of these people.
And this is the only place that
that shooting is mentioned.
I see Goodyear's name
in almost everything that I read.
All of the interviews.
All of the supplementary reports.
Almost all of them.
Every single person they talk to,
"Yeah, I know Mark Goodyear.
He did this or he did that.
And he was with Baumeister.
And he did all of this other stuff."
So here's where I am with Goodyear.
There are so many things that you could
sit down and pick apart with him.
And tell him, "You said this.
What about this?
What about this? What about this?"
I'd like to take a run at Goodyear,
but I don't have the authority anymore.
If somebody can interview him,
I would love to show
what all of the contradictions are
and then just start hammering him
with those contradictions.
Because I think
he'd get flustered very quickly.
Okay. So this is my seat, huh?
[Alex] That's right.
Actually if you could
sit a little bit closer,
just 'cause we've got
the light set up to hit that.
All right.
[Alex] So it's just gonna be a
conversation between you and I, you know?
And, um, what's going on?
Ooh
- [Alex] Are you taking off your shoes?
- I always do.
[Alex] So, Mark, and you're just gonna
look at me if you can.
Okay.
[Alex] First, if you could
just introduce yourself.
Okay.
[Alex]
And tell us your relation to this case.
Okay.
Well, hello, everybody.
This is Mark Goodyear.
Yeah. [exhales]
Um
Let me ask you. What do you think?
Am I the evil culprit? The accomplice?
I'd like to know
how the audience views me.