The Most Hated Family in America (2007) Movie Script
# I'm ashamed to be an American
Where the fags can freely roam
# They spread their filth around
this land, every pervert calls... #
'I've been living among members
of the Westboro Baptist Church.'
'A fire-and-brimstone
Christian group made up almost
entirely of a single family.'
# God hates the U...S...A... #
Welcome to our picket!
'Since the Iraq War, they've
picketed dead soldiers' funerals
'in protest against an America
that tolerates homosexuality.'
Members of the Westboro Baptist
Church of Topeka are protesting...
America is doomed!
God hates fags!
Are you a homosexual?
Are you or not?
Shirley Phelps taught her 11 kids
not just to hate homosexuals...
We're servants of the living God.
That's all that matters.
'The Westboro Baptist Church is
probably the most controversial
church in America.' Obey your God!
Is this in the Bible? Fags
eat faeces. That's a fact, hon!
This programme contains
some strong language.
'The church is situated
in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.
'Its pastor is the family patriarch
Fred Phelps, also known as Gramps.'
Hi. Hi there. You must be Shirley.
Yes. I'm Louis. Hi, Louis...
'But the day-to-day operations
are now run by the pastor's
daughter, Shirley,
'a lawyer and mother
to 11 children.'
So these are your signs.
You've got "God hates fags" here.
And "God hates you".
Don't think of fags as just those
guys taking it up the tailpipe.
You've got "God hates fags" here.
Think of it as people who are
involved in some perverted sex act.
I'm talking about anything
other than one man, one woman
in their marriage bed.
So beneath that are there
gradations of iniquity, as it were?
If you see a nation or a people
who have risen up with one voice
to say that it's OK to be gay,
they are a doomed people,
they have crossed the line.
When you say "gay pride", you have
given over any notion that you're
gonna admit that you're sinning.
You understand that? Being gay is
an innocent, alternate lifestyle?
That's what I believe.
Then you can't say,
then you believe it's not a sin.
That's what I believe.
they are a doomed people,
then you believe it's not a sin.
So you condemn yourself cos
by your words are you justified and
by your words are you condemned.
But it wasn't a big thing
for Jesus. He had other priorities
rather than homosexuality.
It's not one
of the Ten Commandments. Yes.
The streets of this nation are full
of married men having fag sex.
That's adultery.
So don't try to pretend that you
don't come under the umbrella of
adultery just because you're a fag.
Hi, guys. Hi.
Hi. This is Gabriel. How do you do?
Go put your stuff away.This is Grace.
'For the last few years, the church
has taken its message of God's hate
'to the funerals of soldiers killed
in Iraq and Afghanistan,
Reasoning they were struck down by God
for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.
What is the plan? We'll get out
here and put these signs in the air.
At the funeral? You call it that,
but they're worshipping the dead.
You do research into the soldiers
that have died? Staff-Sergeant
Kevin Zeigler. He died of an IED.
That's a... Roadside bomb. Right,
an improvised explosive device.
Exactly. His family was told that
he and another soldier died while
trying to disable the explosive.
He was 31. Do you think
it's possible that by getting
in people's faces in this way,
you're more likely
to put people off the word
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
You do research into the soldiers
to put people off the word
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
Just human psychology? You think
our job is to win souls to Christ.
You do research into the soldiers
Just human psychology? You think
in people's faces in this way,
By getting in their face
and putting signs in front of them,
we just make what was already in
their heart come out of their mouth.
we just make what was already in
This is what I really think.
You do research into the soldiers
But there's a part of you that
doesn't think that? No, there's not.
You do research into the soldiers
Because we are the evil angels.
EVIL angels? Exactly.
Not because we're evil, but we're
bringing the message of the evil
that God has determined upon you.
bringing the message of the evil
God didn't do evil? My goodness!
Come on, guys.
Let's get outta here. Let's bail!
You do research into the soldiers
bringing the message of the evil
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
This is our corner.
Come on, little boys! Zach, hop in
in case he wants you...
I'm just here as a journalist...
Yes. ..Shirley. Yes.
'Today's picket was
at an intersection
near a church in Kansas City.
'Among the picketers was the
pastor's wife, though of the pastor
himself there was no sign.
'Like many states, Missouri has
established strict regulations
'to try and limit the Phelps'
contact with the bereaved
'and I was relieved
to see how far from the funeral
the church members had to be.'
to see how far from the funeral
the church members had to be.'
ALL CHANT:
God hates America!
This is shameful. Yeah.
Right down shameful. Yeah, hon.
You've got little kids like this...
You obviously raised
your brat for the devil, your big
gluttonous brat for the devil!
And you go to Hell.
I don't agree with the lifestyle.
I don't agree with the lifestyle.
Yes, you do. No, I don't.
you hate God, so just shut up!
What was he talking about?
"I don't agree with fags,
but que sera sera..."
Fuck you! You think
you can fix this? You think
you're gonna change God?
go down there? America is doomed.
but so far the reaction has been
approximately 100% negative.
Would you agree? Yeah.
Is there another way
of delivering the message,
you can fix this? You think
like a letter of consolation
to the soldier's family?
We do letters, but not consolation.
You angered God
and now he's cursed your family!
They're not gonna have
any consolation.
As a picket today, how would you
rate this, marks out of ten?
As a picket today, how would you
Hon, they're all tens. All of them.
Would you say ten out of ten
as well, Jacob? Yeah, God did this,
therefore it's perfect.
Does everything get ten out of ten?
Yeah. Thank God
for all of his judgments.
Not one word falls to the ground.
They're not gonna have
Not one word falls to the ground.
They're not gonna have
Not one word falls to the ground.
'where most of the 70 or so
churchgoers live.'
Not one word falls to the ground.
So this is the centre
of the headquarters right here?
You can call it that. What
would you call it? My back yard.
You don't live communally with the
other members of the church? No.
Where does Pastor Phelps,
the patriarch, live?
On that second floor. Up there?
In that building you've got
the house part to this side
and the church part to that side.
the house part to this side
for the children.
Have you wondered if you might be
part of a cult? What do you have
to be to qualify as a cult?
It's a religious group
that exercises an inordinate amount
of control over its members.
You have to have other things also.
Brainwashing and a charismatic
leader at the top? Maybe Fred
Phelps, your father, could qualify.
I don't care
about all that nonsense.
We're the ones who are adhering
to the doctrines of faith of all
mainline religions. They're not.
So what else you got?
'To help her run the ministry,
Shirley relies on her two
eldest daughters, Megan and Bekah.'
This is Bekah's room, OK. I don't
see any posters of pop bands. No.
Can we look in your closet?
I guess you can.
You have quite a lot of clothes.
Yeah, pretty much. Are there rules
about what you can wear? Modesty.
Our parents don't have to tell us.
We know what we can wear.
We know what's appropriate. How
do the girls at your school dress?
One word - whore. Do you agree?
We know what's appropriate. How
people at your school think of you?
They hate us, but we're nice
to everyone. Why do they hate you?
Because they hate the message. We
We know what's appropriate. How
Shall we do the next room? Yes.
So, basically,
your circle of friends is mainly
or exclusively limited to people
who are part of this church? Yeah.
Do you have any friends
outside this group?
No true friends. Friendship
with the world is enmity with God.
May I ask if you've had boyfriends?
No, we haven't. No.
Why not? Because in this life
we're not about serving ourselves.
we're not about serving ourselves.
It's a temptation that's not needed
and it takes up time we don't have.
When you come on with a lot
of this stuff about the Bible,
some might think you're arrogant.
that is a clear indication
that they hate God's word
and that they're headed for Hell.
that they hate God's word
# We're marching, we're marching
# We are marching, Lord
# We're marching, we're marching
'The end of my first day at the
church and during a choir practice,
I had a moment to reflect.'
# The beautiful city of God... #
'I felt I had been bombarded
with religious rhetoric
'and it was preventing me
from getting to know
the church members as people.
'With the girls especially,
I sensed there was another side
to their story
'and I was curious to know more.'
# Beautiful
# Beautiful city
# A beautiful city
'niece to Shirley,
cousin to Megan and Bekah,
'and in her day job,
'It would be a chance to meet
another of the younger women
Hi. How are you? Good.
Can we come in? Uh-huh.
Can you show us around?
This is the computer study area.
This is a picture of the girls in
the church when they were younger.
Let's see that.
Who's that? Cathy. She's gone? Yes.
And who's that? This is Betty,
this is Fred Junior's wife.
This is my Aunt Liz. This is Dot.
She's gone? Right.
This is Becky. That's my grandma.
This is her daughter Sharon
who has also gone.
This is her daughter Sharon
Is everyone else gonna stay?
Everybody else? Yeah.
Yeah. As far as we know.
I think so. Are you gonna stay?
Yes. Do you like it? I love it.
Do you? Yes, I really do.
As far as you're concerned,
those people that have gone away,
they're going to Hell? Yeah.
What if you don't believe
in the Bible? You're going to Hell.
So I'm going to Hell?
Yes, Louis, you're going to Hell.
You are.
Anyway, this is my room.
Ta-da! There's pictures everywhere.
What is this one? You like it?
Yeah. It's the Wrath of God
as revealed from Heaven.
Do you think that's
what it might look like
when the Scripture is fulfilled?
That kind of thing, natural
disasters, it's gonna be so awesome.
Has there ever been a time
when you felt, um, tempted?
I don't want to talk about that.
I don't think it's appropriate.
I won't dwell on anything
inappropriate if I can help it.
I won't dwell on anything
gonna answer that question!
We're going to seek that which is
good and abhor that which is evil.
That's why we're not gonna dwell
and tell you about every single sin
we ever did in our life.
I don't think that'll ever happen.
That's why we're not gonna dwell
Why wouldn't that happen?
Are you kidding me?
Because I'm Jael Phelps and
I serve God, that's why. That's why.
And I'm not gonna go seeking after
that because it's foolishness.
Your father Jonathan got married.
Your grandfather, Gramps, he got
married. Shirley got married.
Your grandfather, Gramps, he got
Why should you be any different?
Louis, we're living in the last of
the last days. Time is very short.
Times are very different than 15
years ago. There could be someone...
Yes, but I'm not gonna plan it.
I'm not gonna seek after it
and I'm not gonna dwell on it.
That's not my interest.
It's not my focus.
This is so silly. I don't wanna talk
about it any more.
OK?
So I don't wanna go there.
'That afternoon, I had
an appointment to see Steve Drain.
I'm Louis. Hi, Louis...
'As his service to the church,
Steve handles online media
'and is an all-round helper
to the man he now calls Gramps.'
You wanna see how we make signs?
The famous signs. "God hates fags."
'But in his old life, I heard
he and I had something in common.'
Is it true that you first came here
as a documentary film-maker? Yes.
You brought your family here
from Florida? Mm-hm. Are you glad
you did that? Absolutely.
It's the only thing I can say I'm
really glad that I did. Really? Hmm.
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
Anybody who is an ambassador from
God, preaching a sincere message,
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
is a prophet and Gramps is a prophet,
as are all these other people here.
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
as are all these other people here.
So these are some of the ones...
Some of these are kind of random?
They're not random. This one...
Liz Taylor? Course she's
a fag lover. Course she is!
Desmond Tutu? How do you choose...?
He lies about the Scripture
every time he opens his mouth!
How do you choose who to make signs
about? There's no logic here.
He lies about the Scripture
a fag lover. Course she is!
There's plenty of logic. Anybody
in the news who supports the filthy
fag agenda, we'll make a sign about.
homosexuality before you came here?
No. What was your feeling...?
I embraced the philosophy of
libertarianism. I was a genius. It
was OK to be gay? I was a genius.
What is this? Look at this.
That's a little offensive.
To who? People in Britain
consider her an icon.
Princess Diana? She'll be in Hell
for all of eternity. I can't believe
my ears. Oh, my goodness gracious!
'In addition to the funeral
pickets, the church also does
a multitude of local pickets
chosen by the pastor.'
So where are we actually going to
now? We're going to a picket
here at the Jew Church.
here at the Jew Church.
The...? What did you say?
The Jew Church.
That sounds anti-Semitic. They
The rectum? Yeah, the rectum. That
sounds insane when you say that.
They worship that which they desire.
It's an expression of the flesh.
It's a metaphor? Of course it is.
Idolatry, fornication,
all manner of sexual perversions
go hand in hand, Louis.
Idolatry, fornication,
go hand in hand, Louis.
This is callous defiance against God
Almighty. The Jews killed Christ.
You're gonna say
They killed Christ. News flash,
Brainiac, Christ WAS Jewish.
I'm telling you Christ was God.
They called for his crucifixion.
The Romans did it. The Jews did it.
It's a metaphor? Of course it is.
You see these wonderful signs,
"God Hates Fags, Temple Beth Sodom,
"Jew Fags, God Is USA's Terrorist"?
These are wonderful signs.
"Fag Troops"?
# America
# God showed his wrath to me
# He cursed this land
'That evening, Steve invited me to
drop in on a special taping of one
of the church's online sermons.'
Everything OK, Steve?
'Hinting that there might be
an opportunity to have my first
face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.'
an opportunity to have my first
Everything OK up there? Yeah, we
just wanted to make sure we got our
technical difficulties straightened.
just wanted to make sure we got our
Steve! Come on.
Where have you gone? Hello?
Where are you? Here.
All right... What is going on?
Yeah, yeah... Why don't you go ahead
and...? Hi, guys.
How do you do? I'm Louis.
Hi, Louis. From the BBC.
You must be Pastor Fred Phelps.
Yes. Glad to see you.
What is happening?
Pay close attention.
drop in on a special taping of one
Pay close attention.
Billy Graham,
Hell-bound false prophet.
I've known Billy more than 50 years
and Billy, you are headed straight
and irreversibly for Hell.
drop in on a special taping of one
Hell-bound false prophet.
You are a lying, money-grubbing,
Arminian heretic.
At 88, Graham will soon die
and split Hell wide open.
And Westboro Baptist Church
will picket your funeral.
Amen.
Thanks, Gramps. That was awesome.
OK, guys. What do you want?
You are basically the pastor of
the church and the pater familias
of the whole group.
Did you see that newspaper story
down at the bottom of the stairs?
No. Steve was gonna give us a tour
downstairs, then he was in a rush.
We've got a schedule to keep.
We're not here to cater to you.
We've got a schedule to keep.
You are basically the pastor of
many children do you have? Don't
bother me with silly questions.
This is a pretty big family. How
Get to some stuff that I'm
the only one that can answer.
Then we'll have a good interview
here. In fact, were we supposed
to have an interview?
Can we have an interview? Not now.
Not now? No, not now.
You were saying...how many children
Can we have an interview? Not now.
You already answered that question.
You were saying...how many children
Everybody in the civilised world
knows how many children I've got
You were saying...how many children
We've got a schedule to keep.
knows how many children I've got
and grandchildren
and great-grandchildren.
Is he stalling for time? Shall we
go downstairs? Yeah. Thank you for
having us. Sure. Glad to see you.
You were saying...how many children
There's the article he mentioned,
Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah.
What was the big deal
about asking how many children?
He would've answered a sincere,
relevant, theological question.
That was a sincere question.
He would've answered a sincere,
Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah.
I wanted to hear what HE had
to say about it. You want us
to say it in a certain way?
I wanted to know how many
he would say... You have the guy
who has by far, head and shoulders,
more scriptural knowledge, knowledge
of the Bible, the moral realm
than anybody who has crawled
over this Earth and you ask him
a silly, dull question?
How many children do you have?
You're wasting your opportunity.
Where are we going?
To pick up the children.
'I sensed how impregnable
the church members' beliefs are.
'I wanted to understand how that
faith is instilled in the children.'
They go to normal schools? I'm
surprised they're not home-schooled.
There's two reasons for that.
The first one is
Secondly, these children need to be
in the faces of this community.
That is part of our testimony.
Do they preach at school at all?
No. Only their presence. Only like
they're walking picket signs.
They see these kids and think, "God
hates fags" or "America is doomed".
Do they have friends at school?
I don't know
if you'd call them friends.
They can bring them home?
You think these kids want to come
to our house? It's very nice.
Where would that go? Pretty quick
you'll get into the discussions.
But that's how I met my husband.
He hung out with my brother.
I'm saying that when
they come round, they're welcome.
Could they bring girlfriends
or boyfriends home?
I will not have my kids
or boyfriends home?
or doing activities that resemble
what this generation calls dating.
Fun. Fun?
Does that equal fornicating?
Not necessarily.
Well, what does it equal?
Holding hands? No.
Sending little notes to each other?
How are you, Gabriel? ..So you can
teach 'em how to fornicate later?
So they can learn early? You've got
fornication on the brain! That's
what this generation is all about.
So they can learn early? You've got
teach 'em how to fornicate later?
'One of the pickets that afternoon
was outside a hardware store
that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners.
was outside a hardware store
what this generation is all about.
was outside a hardware store
what this generation is all about.
'Apparently, Swedish authorities
imprisoned a local pastor for
preaching against homosexuality
imprisoned a local pastor for
preaching against homosexuality
'which was enough to make
the whole nation a target.
'I'd seen some of the youngest
members of the clan hold placards.
'I wondered how much
of the message they understood.'
How old are you, Shirley?
Seven. Seven.
Do you know
what the sign means? No.
No? Shirley,
she doesn't know what it means.
Fags, troops,
flags, symbols,
No. Only their presence. Only like
worships above God.
Does that help you at all
or have I said a lot of words
that were too big?
Maybe she's just making up numbers
because she doesn't really get it.
Noah, do you know
what fag troops are? Yeah. What?
It's this nation.
All these fags. It's a nation of
fags. That's what fag troops means.
It is a nation of fags, yes.
fags. That's what fag troops means.
Noah, do you know what else
you could be, besides a fag,
to be in trouble with God and be
included in that sign? What else?
Swedish?
Swedish and...
But if you're not a practising fag,
what are you?
But if you're not a practising fag,
What if you support fags?
But if you're not a practising fag,
But if you're not a practising fag,
You're a dyke?
You could say you're grooming him
into the weird behaviour that is
characteristic of your group.
You could explain
your moral outlook in a classroom.
Are you calling our service
to our God weird behaviour?
Your statement doesn't make it
right, doesn't make it a fact.
The world calls it weird. I don't
care. The world hates us... Hello?
'The next morning I was with Megan.
'Phelps family members are expected
to hold mainstream jobs and give
10% of their income to the church.
'Many work as lawyers and Megan
hoped to follow in that tradition.'
The university you go to.
Yes. Yes, it is. It's lovely.
Good stuff. Totally.
Do you want to be a lawyer as well?
Yes. Like your aunts and uncles.
Yeah. I'm the only one in my
generation that wants to be a lawyer.
'By now the church members had
learned a little about my life
'and they knew I'd had a child
with my partner out of wedlock,
which put me in the firing line.'
Do you like going to the pickets?
Yeah. Are you kidding?
It must get old, though.
You don't get tired
of pursuing your sins and your lust.
Do I? I say you don't. Don't I?
You keep doing it! Me, specifically?
You OR anybody else.
Yeah. Are you kidding?
You OR anybody else.
You serve your lust,
I serve my God.
So should I be killed for having
extra-marital intercourse?
According to our code? Yeah.
I'm not sure. I think so.
I know adultery is. Wow.
And homosexuality was.
You want to see me killed for that.
I want to tell you the truth.
This is interesting.
This is where you go to college.
Yes. You have no friends here? No.
I have acquaintances.
They're not my friends.
Do you have acquaintances you like?
On a humanistic level?
That are friendly? Yeah.
Any guys? Yes.
What do you want me to say?
If you saw a guy in one of your
classes and thought he seemed nice
or had potential,
and he said, "Want to get a coffee?"
what would you do? It has happened.
I said, "Sorry, I'm busy."
Why? I have other things to do.
What was his name?
I don't even remember. You do.
Yeah, he was... What? Robert.
Robert? Robert. I think.
Is that someone you know? No. He
looks like the guy who asked me out.
It's kind of gooey, isn't it?
But I know young women
sometimes think about these things.
Most women also have...
a whole lot of lust and fornication
and do a lot of things we don't do.
Why put it like that?
Why not say "make love"?
Cos you're trying to make it seem
like something it isn't.
That's not what you're doing.
Cos you're trying to make it seem
That's not what you're doing.
How do you mean?
Get married. You seriously wouldn't
mind if you never got married
and never experienced
everything that represents? No.
It shakes it up
when there's more than one!
'And so my days at the church
wore on. I could feel myself
being absorbed into the family.'
Ahh!
'almost as though their bond with
each other had been strengthened by
the hostility of the outside world.
What did you say?
I said, "Are you kidding me?!
Who's going to marry US?"
'And it was easy to become
desensitised to their message
'and how provocative it really is.'
See, they covered their licence
plates. I don't know what they were
up to. Did they hit somebody?
Is he OK?
plates. I don't know what they were
Is he OK?
I'm sorry, hon.
They had the licence plate down.
You all right, honey?
Hey, bud. You got it all over you.
Hey, bud, I'm sorry.
I knew they had done something.
I am so sorry.
You want to go talk to your daddy?
Hey, hey, you want your sign?
Let me wipe that off of you, OK?
I'm sorry. Megan, can you...?
They are such cowards.
Who would hit a child?
Who would do that?
It looks like here, Tim.
I know... See that?
His eyes.
Do you see that colour?
That's what was in that cup.
It obviously got around on him.
It looks like here, Tim.
It obviously got around on him.
'Seeing seven-year-old Elisha
get hit by a drink was a reminder
'that among the victims of
the Phelps were their own children.
'It was Sunday and I'd been invited
along to a church service. It would
be another chance to meet the pastor
'and maybe have an interview. But
first I had an appointment to help
with chores around the homestead.'
Do you see much of Gramps?
Sometimes on Monday and Tuesday.
I haven't seen that much of him.
Do you see much of Gramps?
'that among the victims of
I haven't seen that much of him.
I think he's gotten tired
of you guys.
How can he be tired of us?
You and your impertinent questions.
He doesn't have much patience
for people asking a bunch
of questions that aren't relevant.
You know, when we were at your house
and you said I was going to Hell,
Thinking on those things,
it brings me pleasure to think that
the Lord will vindicate His people,
He will carry out His wrath
because He is perfect.
It doesn't make me happy
to think of you burning in Hell. OK.
Does that make me a better person?
No! You know God
because He sends the wicked to Hell
That's comforting to think on.
Why couldn't you feel sad
that I was going to Hell? Because
it's according to God's will.
So you rejoice in all his judgments?
Exactly. Very good point.
If you got run over by a car,
would your dad be pleased?
If you got run over by a car,
Really? Really. I'm serious.
And we have to move on.
That's crazy.
In your thinking it's crazy.
If you got run over by a car,
Let's go. Come on.
CONGREGATION SING
'A little later, I joined
the rest of the church members
in the family chapel
'A little later, I joined
# He will be waiting for me
'A little later, I joined
# After that day is through. #
Is it true that if I do something
wrong, Gramps could go loco?
He'll just tell you not to do it.
Would it be embarrassing for him?
For you. Why? There's no experience
quite like it.
of one of Gramps' services.'
Is it true that if I do something
Same-sex marriage,
by any name,
civil union or otherwise,
is the ultimate smash-mouth,
in-your-face insult
to God Almighty.
You think He's gonna let England
and America get by with it?
God Almighty has not joined fags
in holy wedlock.
civil union or otherwise,
God no longer keeps America safe.
America's doomed.
Getting the pants beat off of us
to God Almighty.
God is now America's terrorist.
That's who Bush is fighting.
to God Almighty.
You tweaked His nose, you jackass!
You tweaked His nose!
God put it in your wicked heart
to start that war!
That's the message we got at the
funerals of these dead soldiers.
God duped you
into starting a war
so He could punish you
Any preacher preaching
in any other way is a lying,
It's almost 18 months now
and this siege has got people
eating their babies.
God himself duped Bush
into a no-win war
and He did that by the technique
of putting a lying spirit in the
mouth of all his trusted advisers.
To punish America.
At least two million.
Maybe three or four million.
Pastor, would there be five minutes
for a couple of questions?
Well, uh... Yeah, five minutes.
Shoot. OK.
I was struck by your preaching.
It was as if you feel we are living
in a time of Biblical prophecy.
Is that accurate? No, it's not.
I don't know how to deal
with a question like that.
You're just too dumb. Sorry.
Because you're a human being.
God Almighty made ya
and He will send your ass to Hell.
Because you're a human being.
as well as I do. Why?
Is it accurate to say that you
regard the Westboro Baptist Church
as the only church
that's preaching according to the
words of God? Is the three minutes
up? The answer to you is yes.
It was five minutes.
But I already talked two, didn't I?
So there's three left?
Do you believe your preaching is the
only preaching according to the word
of God? Asked and answered. Next.
Do you believe your preaching is the
are the people of this church
the only ones now living
that will make it to the Kingdom
of Heaven? Asked and answered. Next.
Is there something you'd like me to
ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk
to you or even let you in.
Isn't it an act of presumption
that when you don't have all the
information about the other churches
ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk
to grace?
I know all there is to know about
them. How? I won't keep talking.
Didn't Steve Drain tell you
that you'd wasted an opportunity
and they'd probably fire you?
You're just an evil...
I don't wanna go there.
And good luck to you.
OK, guys.
Did you come to carry some stuff?
God hates fags!
God hates fag enablers!
The abominable, disgraceful,
filthy conduct
that you think up to engage in.
Quit worshipping the flag, dummy!
It can't help you.
Quit worshipping the flag, dummy!
# You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
# Run on for a long time
Tell 'em that God's
gonna cut you down
# Tell 'em that God's gonna
cut you down
# Tell 'em that God's gonna
cut you down... #
'I'd sensed a deep wellspring
of anger in Gramps
and I suspected this was the basis
'for his church's ministry.
His skewed interpretation
of the Bible had been handed on
'and was now broadcast to the world.
They had no interest
in winning souls.
'Being hated was proof that they
were doing the right thing.
'As part of their effort
to reach every corner of America,
'they had decided to picket
a soldier's funeral several hundred
'they had decided to picket
'in Skokie, Illinois.
..however many there are of you,
just to picket this dead soldier's
funeral? That's right.
For 45 minutes. Yep.
Is it really worth it? Yeah!
They'll get the message.
You see what it's created
around this nation. Good morning.
I'm gonna sit in the second row
unless somebody else is there.
How much would you say the church
spends in an average year
on flights? A lot. How much?
For 45 minutes. Yep.
It's in the 200,000 range. Really?
$200,000.
That's more than maybe 100,000.
Yeah, I don't know the ratio.
That's more than maybe 100,000.
Just to go and spread hate?
No, to go and preach the gospel.
God's hate. Not your hate.
It's very scriptural what I said.
Actually, that's true.
"His unit was supposed to end
"but one day before Foyteck was
scheduled to leave, he got news
that it would be sent to Baghdad.
"He told his family he'd be home
in November instead and his mother
mailed him his cell phone
"so he would be able to call.
Foyteck, 26,
died two days before Hallowe'en,
"shot in the neck by insurgents
during a raid on a house.
"In addition to his mother,
he is survived by his father,
a brother Christopher
"and grandparents." Doesn't that
make you sad? It's very sad
that they won't get the message.
All they have to do is obey
their God and they'll stop the pain,
but they're not going to.
their God and they'll stop the pain,
It's not! It's so concrete.
We don't know anything more
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
No, we know two things.
He's been killed, therefore
he was doing something sinful.
He was fighting for a nation that
has made God their enemy. There's
no good people in the military?
It's all very plain and simple.
You will not make me feel bad.
I did not do that.
I'm doing this to help them.
Is there any danger of you feeling
bad about it? Is there any danger?
I did not do that.
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
You say that almost as though
I got through to you. No.
You say that almost as though
are temporal. They'll fade away.
If God is infinitely wise
and powerful and omniscient,
then He could bring a soldier
up to Heaven if He felt like it.
Listen to you! This nation thinks
they are all-powerful, almighty
Listen to you! This nation thinks
You think that about your church.
and the power comes from our God.
We have all the power. You stay
tuned. He will come through the
clouds and execute judgment on them.
Isn't it possible
that the funeral is for a good man,
a righteous and a nice person,
who doesn't deserve to have his
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
You say that almost as though
You say that almost as though
# Oh, wicked land of sodomites... #
You say that almost as though
'At the funeral, I decided
to break away from the picket
and go inside the memorial home
You say that almost as though
'to see the mourners first-hand.'
He was doing what he wanted to do.
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
I have to honour that, as much as
I miss him and don't think it's fair.
But he was doing what he believes
and what he wanted.
Kraig wanted to go in the army
after high school,
so he did what he wanted to do.
He did.
We just have to carry on his memory
and his honour through other soldiers
and help other families.
and his honour through other soldiers
BELL TOLLS
'Seeing the mourners brought home
the reality of the grief
'but I realised I'd got
as far as I could with Shirley.'
'but I realised I'd got
Louis, you're going to Hell.
'Try as I might, nothing I said
made any impact on her beliefs.
'Back in Topeka,
and while we've been away
'For the Phelps it was another sign
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
and while we've been away
Yeah. 'I was nearing
the end of my time in the group.
Yeah. 'I was nearing
the end of my time in the group.
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
but tried my fellow documentary
maker, Steve Drain.'
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
the end of my time in the group.
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
and while we've been away
Now that I've come
to the end of my time here,
are you curious to hear my thoughts?
I'd love to. Go ahead.
I spent a little bit of time
with the Pastor and I think maybe
he's got a lot of anger.
Maybe he's a rageaholic.
But perhaps his ministry
is human-focused, not God-focused.
The Bible's a pretty long book,
but if you pick and choose, you can
justify almost any behaviour.
When I say God hates fags, OK, that's
not the whole message that we have.
But perhaps his ministry
Maybe he's a rageaholic.
That's the front burner issue,
the elephant in the room
that nobody else talks about.
That's not the only piece
of evidence for my argument.
The whole idea that Westboro Baptist
are the only ones going to Heaven.
If there was somebody else out there
preaching the unvarnished word
of God, from cover to cover,
If He did come back...
He'd be holding this sign.
..rather than....
I'm trying to tell you.
He'd be picketed by your church.
..rather than....
He'd be picketed by your church.
I seriously believe that.
You are seriously deluded.
I'm preaching what the Bible says.
You preach what your dark heart says.
I'm willing to talk with you,
but you're just being silly. I'm not.
Of course you are.
Want a ride back? I'm not being
silly. I don't think you have the
truth. You're running away from it.
You're just trying to turn yourself
into God by saying things ought to be
this way, or thus and such.
You are the one who has
the God complex, Louis, not me.
But I don't claim absolute truth.
I don't claim it of myself.
You pick and choose.
These people, we'll be nice to them,
I don't claim it of myself.
He'd be picketed by your church.
but not to those other ones.
Have you ever seen me be mean?
but not to those other ones.
Not you specifically. The church.
I am the church. Did you rejoice
when that church burned down?
You rejoice when soldiers die
in Iraq? Absolutely I do.
When people are knocked over by cars
and get cancer? Absolutely. Love it.
Come on.
'My time among the hatemongers of
Westboro Baptist Church was done.
'I'd expected to meet a group
that causes pain to people
in the outside world,
'but I'd been surprised to find
that the members of the church
were also paying a price.
'Shut off from the world, they
preach a hatred that reflects back
at them, confirming their beliefs
'and ultimately denying the right
to a normal life to the young.'
Are we going to go in my car? Yeah.
Mom, they're here.
They want to go for a coffee drink.
No. She says no.
OK.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
Have a coffee here. All right?
How come we couldn't go out?
I don't know.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
How's it going? Good.
of God Almighty.
That's true.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
But I'm special!
I listen to what my parents say.
I respect my parents, so...
No. What are you talking about?
I sense there's a little bit more
inner tension in you.
Inner tension? Yeah. A little bit.
Oh, no.
People who watch us
will be thinking there's a very
nice, charming, attractive woman
and moving out into the world
and maybe thinking in a few years
of starting a family.
Why does everybody have to get
married? Well, no one has to.
But why shouldn't everybody
have the choice?
I have the choice. You do
and you don't. It seems that it is
so inculcated in you
that the outside world is
this devilish, satanic place
Who would...even want
to marry someone who serves God?
I don't blame you for being born
into a situation
outside your control
and I can also see that you're
coming to a time in your life
where you might start
That time has come and gone.
I've already reached the age
where I have made the decision
of what I want to do.
I've already reached the age
Did you have a rebellious few years?
Louis, if I ever was rebellious,
do you think I would tell you
about it?
there's really no one for you
I'm ashamed of any nonsense
that I've ever done.
When we started picketing,
when I was First Grade...
Six years old.
People have been treating me
the way you see us being treated now
since I was that young,
What did they do? Well, nobody
wanted to talk to me at school.
And, um,
they were ashamed to be around me.
You know that sense of being
ostracised? Uh-huh. If you preach
that the world is hateful,
and full of condemned sinners,
then the world will start
to take that shape.
Well, it's very simple.
We read scriptures and we tell people
what the standard is.
We don't do violence to people.
We, um...
warn them that their sins
are taking them to Hell.
are taking them to Hell.
We do a courteous, loving thing
to them.
That's courteous and loving.
And they...
hate us.
And they...beat on us.
What did we do to them?
Nothing but a courtesy. So...
That's quite a weird kind
of courtesy. How is it weird?
Going to funerals and waving those
placards. We preach to the living,
we warn them.
with us. They're just downright mean
Are you afraid of going to Hell?
with us. They're just downright mean
Um, I fear the wrath of God.
I fear, um, going to Hell.
with us. They're just downright mean
we warn them.
But I...certainly hope I won't go
there. I think you laughed
at the idea of me in Hell
with us. They're just downright mean
we warn them.
because maybe it made you feel
that you weren't going to Hell.
I laughed at the thought of you
going to Hell because...
I know you, Louis,
and you're a scoffer and a mocker.
It gives me pleasure to know that
the Lord will vindicate His people
and He will glorify His own name.
That's all this is about.
Glorifying God.
So...
That's why I smiled.
Come on. I haven't scoffed at you.
Let's get out to the picket.
Glorifying God.
and He will glorify His own name.
Come on. I haven't scoffed at you.
Glorifying God.
Rules that you should obey.
Did you do it for me?
Yeah, so you can carry it around,
so you can know all the rules
of obeying God.
Don't kill people.
Don't marry two people. Don't lie.
I think everyone lies some
in their life.
Maybe when they're a kid.
Do not act like a snake.
More especially you again.
All of these, I guess. What does
that mean? Act like a snake?
I can't remember.
Hey! You gave us that...
No, no.
Don't say that. Like a snake?
You clarify for him.
Yeah. Don't act like a snake.
Then it says, "Don't be sneaky".
All of these, I guess. What does
Where the fags can freely roam
# They spread their filth around
this land, every pervert calls... #
'I've been living among members
of the Westboro Baptist Church.'
'A fire-and-brimstone
Christian group made up almost
entirely of a single family.'
# God hates the U...S...A... #
Welcome to our picket!
'Since the Iraq War, they've
picketed dead soldiers' funerals
'in protest against an America
that tolerates homosexuality.'
Members of the Westboro Baptist
Church of Topeka are protesting...
America is doomed!
God hates fags!
Are you a homosexual?
Are you or not?
Shirley Phelps taught her 11 kids
not just to hate homosexuals...
We're servants of the living God.
That's all that matters.
'The Westboro Baptist Church is
probably the most controversial
church in America.' Obey your God!
Is this in the Bible? Fags
eat faeces. That's a fact, hon!
This programme contains
some strong language.
'The church is situated
in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.
'Its pastor is the family patriarch
Fred Phelps, also known as Gramps.'
Hi. Hi there. You must be Shirley.
Yes. I'm Louis. Hi, Louis...
'But the day-to-day operations
are now run by the pastor's
daughter, Shirley,
'a lawyer and mother
to 11 children.'
So these are your signs.
You've got "God hates fags" here.
And "God hates you".
Don't think of fags as just those
guys taking it up the tailpipe.
You've got "God hates fags" here.
Think of it as people who are
involved in some perverted sex act.
I'm talking about anything
other than one man, one woman
in their marriage bed.
So beneath that are there
gradations of iniquity, as it were?
If you see a nation or a people
who have risen up with one voice
to say that it's OK to be gay,
they are a doomed people,
they have crossed the line.
When you say "gay pride", you have
given over any notion that you're
gonna admit that you're sinning.
You understand that? Being gay is
an innocent, alternate lifestyle?
That's what I believe.
Then you can't say,
then you believe it's not a sin.
That's what I believe.
they are a doomed people,
then you believe it's not a sin.
So you condemn yourself cos
by your words are you justified and
by your words are you condemned.
But it wasn't a big thing
for Jesus. He had other priorities
rather than homosexuality.
It's not one
of the Ten Commandments. Yes.
The streets of this nation are full
of married men having fag sex.
That's adultery.
So don't try to pretend that you
don't come under the umbrella of
adultery just because you're a fag.
Hi, guys. Hi.
Hi. This is Gabriel. How do you do?
Go put your stuff away.This is Grace.
'For the last few years, the church
has taken its message of God's hate
'to the funerals of soldiers killed
in Iraq and Afghanistan,
Reasoning they were struck down by God
for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.
What is the plan? We'll get out
here and put these signs in the air.
At the funeral? You call it that,
but they're worshipping the dead.
You do research into the soldiers
that have died? Staff-Sergeant
Kevin Zeigler. He died of an IED.
That's a... Roadside bomb. Right,
an improvised explosive device.
Exactly. His family was told that
he and another soldier died while
trying to disable the explosive.
He was 31. Do you think
it's possible that by getting
in people's faces in this way,
you're more likely
to put people off the word
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
You do research into the soldiers
to put people off the word
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
Just human psychology? You think
our job is to win souls to Christ.
You do research into the soldiers
Just human psychology? You think
in people's faces in this way,
By getting in their face
and putting signs in front of them,
we just make what was already in
their heart come out of their mouth.
we just make what was already in
This is what I really think.
You do research into the soldiers
But there's a part of you that
doesn't think that? No, there's not.
You do research into the soldiers
Because we are the evil angels.
EVIL angels? Exactly.
Not because we're evil, but we're
bringing the message of the evil
that God has determined upon you.
bringing the message of the evil
God didn't do evil? My goodness!
Come on, guys.
Let's get outta here. Let's bail!
You do research into the soldiers
bringing the message of the evil
of Jesus Christ and the Bible?
This is our corner.
Come on, little boys! Zach, hop in
in case he wants you...
I'm just here as a journalist...
Yes. ..Shirley. Yes.
'Today's picket was
at an intersection
near a church in Kansas City.
'Among the picketers was the
pastor's wife, though of the pastor
himself there was no sign.
'Like many states, Missouri has
established strict regulations
'to try and limit the Phelps'
contact with the bereaved
'and I was relieved
to see how far from the funeral
the church members had to be.'
to see how far from the funeral
the church members had to be.'
ALL CHANT:
God hates America!
This is shameful. Yeah.
Right down shameful. Yeah, hon.
You've got little kids like this...
You obviously raised
your brat for the devil, your big
gluttonous brat for the devil!
And you go to Hell.
I don't agree with the lifestyle.
I don't agree with the lifestyle.
Yes, you do. No, I don't.
you hate God, so just shut up!
What was he talking about?
"I don't agree with fags,
but que sera sera..."
Fuck you! You think
you can fix this? You think
you're gonna change God?
go down there? America is doomed.
but so far the reaction has been
approximately 100% negative.
Would you agree? Yeah.
Is there another way
of delivering the message,
you can fix this? You think
like a letter of consolation
to the soldier's family?
We do letters, but not consolation.
You angered God
and now he's cursed your family!
They're not gonna have
any consolation.
As a picket today, how would you
rate this, marks out of ten?
As a picket today, how would you
Hon, they're all tens. All of them.
Would you say ten out of ten
as well, Jacob? Yeah, God did this,
therefore it's perfect.
Does everything get ten out of ten?
Yeah. Thank God
for all of his judgments.
Not one word falls to the ground.
They're not gonna have
Not one word falls to the ground.
They're not gonna have
Not one word falls to the ground.
'where most of the 70 or so
churchgoers live.'
Not one word falls to the ground.
So this is the centre
of the headquarters right here?
You can call it that. What
would you call it? My back yard.
You don't live communally with the
other members of the church? No.
Where does Pastor Phelps,
the patriarch, live?
On that second floor. Up there?
In that building you've got
the house part to this side
and the church part to that side.
the house part to this side
for the children.
Have you wondered if you might be
part of a cult? What do you have
to be to qualify as a cult?
It's a religious group
that exercises an inordinate amount
of control over its members.
You have to have other things also.
Brainwashing and a charismatic
leader at the top? Maybe Fred
Phelps, your father, could qualify.
I don't care
about all that nonsense.
We're the ones who are adhering
to the doctrines of faith of all
mainline religions. They're not.
So what else you got?
'To help her run the ministry,
Shirley relies on her two
eldest daughters, Megan and Bekah.'
This is Bekah's room, OK. I don't
see any posters of pop bands. No.
Can we look in your closet?
I guess you can.
You have quite a lot of clothes.
Yeah, pretty much. Are there rules
about what you can wear? Modesty.
Our parents don't have to tell us.
We know what we can wear.
We know what's appropriate. How
do the girls at your school dress?
One word - whore. Do you agree?
We know what's appropriate. How
people at your school think of you?
They hate us, but we're nice
to everyone. Why do they hate you?
Because they hate the message. We
We know what's appropriate. How
Shall we do the next room? Yes.
So, basically,
your circle of friends is mainly
or exclusively limited to people
who are part of this church? Yeah.
Do you have any friends
outside this group?
No true friends. Friendship
with the world is enmity with God.
May I ask if you've had boyfriends?
No, we haven't. No.
Why not? Because in this life
we're not about serving ourselves.
we're not about serving ourselves.
It's a temptation that's not needed
and it takes up time we don't have.
When you come on with a lot
of this stuff about the Bible,
some might think you're arrogant.
that is a clear indication
that they hate God's word
and that they're headed for Hell.
that they hate God's word
# We're marching, we're marching
# We are marching, Lord
# We're marching, we're marching
'The end of my first day at the
church and during a choir practice,
I had a moment to reflect.'
# The beautiful city of God... #
'I felt I had been bombarded
with religious rhetoric
'and it was preventing me
from getting to know
the church members as people.
'With the girls especially,
I sensed there was another side
to their story
'and I was curious to know more.'
# Beautiful
# Beautiful city
# A beautiful city
'niece to Shirley,
cousin to Megan and Bekah,
'and in her day job,
'It would be a chance to meet
another of the younger women
Hi. How are you? Good.
Can we come in? Uh-huh.
Can you show us around?
This is the computer study area.
This is a picture of the girls in
the church when they were younger.
Let's see that.
Who's that? Cathy. She's gone? Yes.
And who's that? This is Betty,
this is Fred Junior's wife.
This is my Aunt Liz. This is Dot.
She's gone? Right.
This is Becky. That's my grandma.
This is her daughter Sharon
who has also gone.
This is her daughter Sharon
Is everyone else gonna stay?
Everybody else? Yeah.
Yeah. As far as we know.
I think so. Are you gonna stay?
Yes. Do you like it? I love it.
Do you? Yes, I really do.
As far as you're concerned,
those people that have gone away,
they're going to Hell? Yeah.
What if you don't believe
in the Bible? You're going to Hell.
So I'm going to Hell?
Yes, Louis, you're going to Hell.
You are.
Anyway, this is my room.
Ta-da! There's pictures everywhere.
What is this one? You like it?
Yeah. It's the Wrath of God
as revealed from Heaven.
Do you think that's
what it might look like
when the Scripture is fulfilled?
That kind of thing, natural
disasters, it's gonna be so awesome.
Has there ever been a time
when you felt, um, tempted?
I don't want to talk about that.
I don't think it's appropriate.
I won't dwell on anything
inappropriate if I can help it.
I won't dwell on anything
gonna answer that question!
We're going to seek that which is
good and abhor that which is evil.
That's why we're not gonna dwell
and tell you about every single sin
we ever did in our life.
I don't think that'll ever happen.
That's why we're not gonna dwell
Why wouldn't that happen?
Are you kidding me?
Because I'm Jael Phelps and
I serve God, that's why. That's why.
And I'm not gonna go seeking after
that because it's foolishness.
Your father Jonathan got married.
Your grandfather, Gramps, he got
married. Shirley got married.
Your grandfather, Gramps, he got
Why should you be any different?
Louis, we're living in the last of
the last days. Time is very short.
Times are very different than 15
years ago. There could be someone...
Yes, but I'm not gonna plan it.
I'm not gonna seek after it
and I'm not gonna dwell on it.
That's not my interest.
It's not my focus.
This is so silly. I don't wanna talk
about it any more.
OK?
So I don't wanna go there.
'That afternoon, I had
an appointment to see Steve Drain.
I'm Louis. Hi, Louis...
'As his service to the church,
Steve handles online media
'and is an all-round helper
to the man he now calls Gramps.'
You wanna see how we make signs?
The famous signs. "God hates fags."
'But in his old life, I heard
he and I had something in common.'
Is it true that you first came here
as a documentary film-maker? Yes.
You brought your family here
from Florida? Mm-hm. Are you glad
you did that? Absolutely.
It's the only thing I can say I'm
really glad that I did. Really? Hmm.
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
Anybody who is an ambassador from
God, preaching a sincere message,
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
is a prophet and Gramps is a prophet,
as are all these other people here.
Is Gramps a disciple of God?
as are all these other people here.
So these are some of the ones...
Some of these are kind of random?
They're not random. This one...
Liz Taylor? Course she's
a fag lover. Course she is!
Desmond Tutu? How do you choose...?
He lies about the Scripture
every time he opens his mouth!
How do you choose who to make signs
about? There's no logic here.
He lies about the Scripture
a fag lover. Course she is!
There's plenty of logic. Anybody
in the news who supports the filthy
fag agenda, we'll make a sign about.
homosexuality before you came here?
No. What was your feeling...?
I embraced the philosophy of
libertarianism. I was a genius. It
was OK to be gay? I was a genius.
What is this? Look at this.
That's a little offensive.
To who? People in Britain
consider her an icon.
Princess Diana? She'll be in Hell
for all of eternity. I can't believe
my ears. Oh, my goodness gracious!
'In addition to the funeral
pickets, the church also does
a multitude of local pickets
chosen by the pastor.'
So where are we actually going to
now? We're going to a picket
here at the Jew Church.
here at the Jew Church.
The...? What did you say?
The Jew Church.
That sounds anti-Semitic. They
The rectum? Yeah, the rectum. That
sounds insane when you say that.
They worship that which they desire.
It's an expression of the flesh.
It's a metaphor? Of course it is.
Idolatry, fornication,
all manner of sexual perversions
go hand in hand, Louis.
Idolatry, fornication,
go hand in hand, Louis.
This is callous defiance against God
Almighty. The Jews killed Christ.
You're gonna say
They killed Christ. News flash,
Brainiac, Christ WAS Jewish.
I'm telling you Christ was God.
They called for his crucifixion.
The Romans did it. The Jews did it.
It's a metaphor? Of course it is.
You see these wonderful signs,
"God Hates Fags, Temple Beth Sodom,
"Jew Fags, God Is USA's Terrorist"?
These are wonderful signs.
"Fag Troops"?
# America
# God showed his wrath to me
# He cursed this land
'That evening, Steve invited me to
drop in on a special taping of one
of the church's online sermons.'
Everything OK, Steve?
'Hinting that there might be
an opportunity to have my first
face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.'
an opportunity to have my first
Everything OK up there? Yeah, we
just wanted to make sure we got our
technical difficulties straightened.
just wanted to make sure we got our
Steve! Come on.
Where have you gone? Hello?
Where are you? Here.
All right... What is going on?
Yeah, yeah... Why don't you go ahead
and...? Hi, guys.
How do you do? I'm Louis.
Hi, Louis. From the BBC.
You must be Pastor Fred Phelps.
Yes. Glad to see you.
What is happening?
Pay close attention.
drop in on a special taping of one
Pay close attention.
Billy Graham,
Hell-bound false prophet.
I've known Billy more than 50 years
and Billy, you are headed straight
and irreversibly for Hell.
drop in on a special taping of one
Hell-bound false prophet.
You are a lying, money-grubbing,
Arminian heretic.
At 88, Graham will soon die
and split Hell wide open.
And Westboro Baptist Church
will picket your funeral.
Amen.
Thanks, Gramps. That was awesome.
OK, guys. What do you want?
You are basically the pastor of
the church and the pater familias
of the whole group.
Did you see that newspaper story
down at the bottom of the stairs?
No. Steve was gonna give us a tour
downstairs, then he was in a rush.
We've got a schedule to keep.
We're not here to cater to you.
We've got a schedule to keep.
You are basically the pastor of
many children do you have? Don't
bother me with silly questions.
This is a pretty big family. How
Get to some stuff that I'm
the only one that can answer.
Then we'll have a good interview
here. In fact, were we supposed
to have an interview?
Can we have an interview? Not now.
Not now? No, not now.
You were saying...how many children
Can we have an interview? Not now.
You already answered that question.
You were saying...how many children
Everybody in the civilised world
knows how many children I've got
You were saying...how many children
We've got a schedule to keep.
knows how many children I've got
and grandchildren
and great-grandchildren.
Is he stalling for time? Shall we
go downstairs? Yeah. Thank you for
having us. Sure. Glad to see you.
You were saying...how many children
There's the article he mentioned,
Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah.
What was the big deal
about asking how many children?
He would've answered a sincere,
relevant, theological question.
That was a sincere question.
He would've answered a sincere,
Time magazine. Did that go OK? Yeah.
I wanted to hear what HE had
to say about it. You want us
to say it in a certain way?
I wanted to know how many
he would say... You have the guy
who has by far, head and shoulders,
more scriptural knowledge, knowledge
of the Bible, the moral realm
than anybody who has crawled
over this Earth and you ask him
a silly, dull question?
How many children do you have?
You're wasting your opportunity.
Where are we going?
To pick up the children.
'I sensed how impregnable
the church members' beliefs are.
'I wanted to understand how that
faith is instilled in the children.'
They go to normal schools? I'm
surprised they're not home-schooled.
There's two reasons for that.
The first one is
Secondly, these children need to be
in the faces of this community.
That is part of our testimony.
Do they preach at school at all?
No. Only their presence. Only like
they're walking picket signs.
They see these kids and think, "God
hates fags" or "America is doomed".
Do they have friends at school?
I don't know
if you'd call them friends.
They can bring them home?
You think these kids want to come
to our house? It's very nice.
Where would that go? Pretty quick
you'll get into the discussions.
But that's how I met my husband.
He hung out with my brother.
I'm saying that when
they come round, they're welcome.
Could they bring girlfriends
or boyfriends home?
I will not have my kids
or boyfriends home?
or doing activities that resemble
what this generation calls dating.
Fun. Fun?
Does that equal fornicating?
Not necessarily.
Well, what does it equal?
Holding hands? No.
Sending little notes to each other?
How are you, Gabriel? ..So you can
teach 'em how to fornicate later?
So they can learn early? You've got
fornication on the brain! That's
what this generation is all about.
So they can learn early? You've got
teach 'em how to fornicate later?
'One of the pickets that afternoon
was outside a hardware store
that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners.
was outside a hardware store
what this generation is all about.
was outside a hardware store
what this generation is all about.
'Apparently, Swedish authorities
imprisoned a local pastor for
preaching against homosexuality
imprisoned a local pastor for
preaching against homosexuality
'which was enough to make
the whole nation a target.
'I'd seen some of the youngest
members of the clan hold placards.
'I wondered how much
of the message they understood.'
How old are you, Shirley?
Seven. Seven.
Do you know
what the sign means? No.
No? Shirley,
she doesn't know what it means.
Fags, troops,
flags, symbols,
No. Only their presence. Only like
worships above God.
Does that help you at all
or have I said a lot of words
that were too big?
Maybe she's just making up numbers
because she doesn't really get it.
Noah, do you know
what fag troops are? Yeah. What?
It's this nation.
All these fags. It's a nation of
fags. That's what fag troops means.
It is a nation of fags, yes.
fags. That's what fag troops means.
Noah, do you know what else
you could be, besides a fag,
to be in trouble with God and be
included in that sign? What else?
Swedish?
Swedish and...
But if you're not a practising fag,
what are you?
But if you're not a practising fag,
What if you support fags?
But if you're not a practising fag,
But if you're not a practising fag,
You're a dyke?
You could say you're grooming him
into the weird behaviour that is
characteristic of your group.
You could explain
your moral outlook in a classroom.
Are you calling our service
to our God weird behaviour?
Your statement doesn't make it
right, doesn't make it a fact.
The world calls it weird. I don't
care. The world hates us... Hello?
'The next morning I was with Megan.
'Phelps family members are expected
to hold mainstream jobs and give
10% of their income to the church.
'Many work as lawyers and Megan
hoped to follow in that tradition.'
The university you go to.
Yes. Yes, it is. It's lovely.
Good stuff. Totally.
Do you want to be a lawyer as well?
Yes. Like your aunts and uncles.
Yeah. I'm the only one in my
generation that wants to be a lawyer.
'By now the church members had
learned a little about my life
'and they knew I'd had a child
with my partner out of wedlock,
which put me in the firing line.'
Do you like going to the pickets?
Yeah. Are you kidding?
It must get old, though.
You don't get tired
of pursuing your sins and your lust.
Do I? I say you don't. Don't I?
You keep doing it! Me, specifically?
You OR anybody else.
Yeah. Are you kidding?
You OR anybody else.
You serve your lust,
I serve my God.
So should I be killed for having
extra-marital intercourse?
According to our code? Yeah.
I'm not sure. I think so.
I know adultery is. Wow.
And homosexuality was.
You want to see me killed for that.
I want to tell you the truth.
This is interesting.
This is where you go to college.
Yes. You have no friends here? No.
I have acquaintances.
They're not my friends.
Do you have acquaintances you like?
On a humanistic level?
That are friendly? Yeah.
Any guys? Yes.
What do you want me to say?
If you saw a guy in one of your
classes and thought he seemed nice
or had potential,
and he said, "Want to get a coffee?"
what would you do? It has happened.
I said, "Sorry, I'm busy."
Why? I have other things to do.
What was his name?
I don't even remember. You do.
Yeah, he was... What? Robert.
Robert? Robert. I think.
Is that someone you know? No. He
looks like the guy who asked me out.
It's kind of gooey, isn't it?
But I know young women
sometimes think about these things.
Most women also have...
a whole lot of lust and fornication
and do a lot of things we don't do.
Why put it like that?
Why not say "make love"?
Cos you're trying to make it seem
like something it isn't.
That's not what you're doing.
Cos you're trying to make it seem
That's not what you're doing.
How do you mean?
Get married. You seriously wouldn't
mind if you never got married
and never experienced
everything that represents? No.
It shakes it up
when there's more than one!
'And so my days at the church
wore on. I could feel myself
being absorbed into the family.'
Ahh!
'almost as though their bond with
each other had been strengthened by
the hostility of the outside world.
What did you say?
I said, "Are you kidding me?!
Who's going to marry US?"
'And it was easy to become
desensitised to their message
'and how provocative it really is.'
See, they covered their licence
plates. I don't know what they were
up to. Did they hit somebody?
Is he OK?
plates. I don't know what they were
Is he OK?
I'm sorry, hon.
They had the licence plate down.
You all right, honey?
Hey, bud. You got it all over you.
Hey, bud, I'm sorry.
I knew they had done something.
I am so sorry.
You want to go talk to your daddy?
Hey, hey, you want your sign?
Let me wipe that off of you, OK?
I'm sorry. Megan, can you...?
They are such cowards.
Who would hit a child?
Who would do that?
It looks like here, Tim.
I know... See that?
His eyes.
Do you see that colour?
That's what was in that cup.
It obviously got around on him.
It looks like here, Tim.
It obviously got around on him.
'Seeing seven-year-old Elisha
get hit by a drink was a reminder
'that among the victims of
the Phelps were their own children.
'It was Sunday and I'd been invited
along to a church service. It would
be another chance to meet the pastor
'and maybe have an interview. But
first I had an appointment to help
with chores around the homestead.'
Do you see much of Gramps?
Sometimes on Monday and Tuesday.
I haven't seen that much of him.
Do you see much of Gramps?
'that among the victims of
I haven't seen that much of him.
I think he's gotten tired
of you guys.
How can he be tired of us?
You and your impertinent questions.
He doesn't have much patience
for people asking a bunch
of questions that aren't relevant.
You know, when we were at your house
and you said I was going to Hell,
Thinking on those things,
it brings me pleasure to think that
the Lord will vindicate His people,
He will carry out His wrath
because He is perfect.
It doesn't make me happy
to think of you burning in Hell. OK.
Does that make me a better person?
No! You know God
because He sends the wicked to Hell
That's comforting to think on.
Why couldn't you feel sad
that I was going to Hell? Because
it's according to God's will.
So you rejoice in all his judgments?
Exactly. Very good point.
If you got run over by a car,
would your dad be pleased?
If you got run over by a car,
Really? Really. I'm serious.
And we have to move on.
That's crazy.
In your thinking it's crazy.
If you got run over by a car,
Let's go. Come on.
CONGREGATION SING
'A little later, I joined
the rest of the church members
in the family chapel
'A little later, I joined
# He will be waiting for me
'A little later, I joined
# After that day is through. #
Is it true that if I do something
wrong, Gramps could go loco?
He'll just tell you not to do it.
Would it be embarrassing for him?
For you. Why? There's no experience
quite like it.
of one of Gramps' services.'
Is it true that if I do something
Same-sex marriage,
by any name,
civil union or otherwise,
is the ultimate smash-mouth,
in-your-face insult
to God Almighty.
You think He's gonna let England
and America get by with it?
God Almighty has not joined fags
in holy wedlock.
civil union or otherwise,
God no longer keeps America safe.
America's doomed.
Getting the pants beat off of us
to God Almighty.
God is now America's terrorist.
That's who Bush is fighting.
to God Almighty.
You tweaked His nose, you jackass!
You tweaked His nose!
God put it in your wicked heart
to start that war!
That's the message we got at the
funerals of these dead soldiers.
God duped you
into starting a war
so He could punish you
Any preacher preaching
in any other way is a lying,
It's almost 18 months now
and this siege has got people
eating their babies.
God himself duped Bush
into a no-win war
and He did that by the technique
of putting a lying spirit in the
mouth of all his trusted advisers.
To punish America.
At least two million.
Maybe three or four million.
Pastor, would there be five minutes
for a couple of questions?
Well, uh... Yeah, five minutes.
Shoot. OK.
I was struck by your preaching.
It was as if you feel we are living
in a time of Biblical prophecy.
Is that accurate? No, it's not.
I don't know how to deal
with a question like that.
You're just too dumb. Sorry.
Because you're a human being.
God Almighty made ya
and He will send your ass to Hell.
Because you're a human being.
as well as I do. Why?
Is it accurate to say that you
regard the Westboro Baptist Church
as the only church
that's preaching according to the
words of God? Is the three minutes
up? The answer to you is yes.
It was five minutes.
But I already talked two, didn't I?
So there's three left?
Do you believe your preaching is the
only preaching according to the word
of God? Asked and answered. Next.
Do you believe your preaching is the
are the people of this church
the only ones now living
that will make it to the Kingdom
of Heaven? Asked and answered. Next.
Is there something you'd like me to
ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk
to you or even let you in.
Isn't it an act of presumption
that when you don't have all the
information about the other churches
ask? Nope. I didn't wanna talk
to grace?
I know all there is to know about
them. How? I won't keep talking.
Didn't Steve Drain tell you
that you'd wasted an opportunity
and they'd probably fire you?
You're just an evil...
I don't wanna go there.
And good luck to you.
OK, guys.
Did you come to carry some stuff?
God hates fags!
God hates fag enablers!
The abominable, disgraceful,
filthy conduct
that you think up to engage in.
Quit worshipping the flag, dummy!
It can't help you.
Quit worshipping the flag, dummy!
# You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
# Run on for a long time
Tell 'em that God's
gonna cut you down
# Tell 'em that God's gonna
cut you down
# Tell 'em that God's gonna
cut you down... #
'I'd sensed a deep wellspring
of anger in Gramps
and I suspected this was the basis
'for his church's ministry.
His skewed interpretation
of the Bible had been handed on
'and was now broadcast to the world.
They had no interest
in winning souls.
'Being hated was proof that they
were doing the right thing.
'As part of their effort
to reach every corner of America,
'they had decided to picket
a soldier's funeral several hundred
'they had decided to picket
'in Skokie, Illinois.
..however many there are of you,
just to picket this dead soldier's
funeral? That's right.
For 45 minutes. Yep.
Is it really worth it? Yeah!
They'll get the message.
You see what it's created
around this nation. Good morning.
I'm gonna sit in the second row
unless somebody else is there.
How much would you say the church
spends in an average year
on flights? A lot. How much?
For 45 minutes. Yep.
It's in the 200,000 range. Really?
$200,000.
That's more than maybe 100,000.
Yeah, I don't know the ratio.
That's more than maybe 100,000.
Just to go and spread hate?
No, to go and preach the gospel.
God's hate. Not your hate.
It's very scriptural what I said.
Actually, that's true.
"His unit was supposed to end
"but one day before Foyteck was
scheduled to leave, he got news
that it would be sent to Baghdad.
"He told his family he'd be home
in November instead and his mother
mailed him his cell phone
"so he would be able to call.
Foyteck, 26,
died two days before Hallowe'en,
"shot in the neck by insurgents
during a raid on a house.
"In addition to his mother,
he is survived by his father,
a brother Christopher
"and grandparents." Doesn't that
make you sad? It's very sad
that they won't get the message.
All they have to do is obey
their God and they'll stop the pain,
but they're not going to.
their God and they'll stop the pain,
It's not! It's so concrete.
We don't know anything more
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
No, we know two things.
He's been killed, therefore
he was doing something sinful.
He was fighting for a nation that
has made God their enemy. There's
no good people in the military?
It's all very plain and simple.
You will not make me feel bad.
I did not do that.
I'm doing this to help them.
Is there any danger of you feeling
bad about it? Is there any danger?
I did not do that.
than this about Kraig Foyteck.
You say that almost as though
I got through to you. No.
You say that almost as though
are temporal. They'll fade away.
If God is infinitely wise
and powerful and omniscient,
then He could bring a soldier
up to Heaven if He felt like it.
Listen to you! This nation thinks
they are all-powerful, almighty
Listen to you! This nation thinks
You think that about your church.
and the power comes from our God.
We have all the power. You stay
tuned. He will come through the
clouds and execute judgment on them.
Isn't it possible
that the funeral is for a good man,
a righteous and a nice person,
who doesn't deserve to have his
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
You say that almost as though
You say that almost as though
# Oh, wicked land of sodomites... #
You say that almost as though
'At the funeral, I decided
to break away from the picket
and go inside the memorial home
You say that almost as though
'to see the mourners first-hand.'
He was doing what he wanted to do.
funeral picketed? Not a chance,
I have to honour that, as much as
I miss him and don't think it's fair.
But he was doing what he believes
and what he wanted.
Kraig wanted to go in the army
after high school,
so he did what he wanted to do.
He did.
We just have to carry on his memory
and his honour through other soldiers
and help other families.
and his honour through other soldiers
BELL TOLLS
'Seeing the mourners brought home
the reality of the grief
'but I realised I'd got
as far as I could with Shirley.'
'but I realised I'd got
Louis, you're going to Hell.
'Try as I might, nothing I said
made any impact on her beliefs.
'Back in Topeka,
and while we've been away
'For the Phelps it was another sign
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
and while we've been away
Yeah. 'I was nearing
the end of my time in the group.
Yeah. 'I was nearing
the end of my time in the group.
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
but tried my fellow documentary
maker, Steve Drain.'
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
the end of my time in the group.
'I'd made no headway with Shirley,
You want to get a sign, Louis? To
and while we've been away
Now that I've come
to the end of my time here,
are you curious to hear my thoughts?
I'd love to. Go ahead.
I spent a little bit of time
with the Pastor and I think maybe
he's got a lot of anger.
Maybe he's a rageaholic.
But perhaps his ministry
is human-focused, not God-focused.
The Bible's a pretty long book,
but if you pick and choose, you can
justify almost any behaviour.
When I say God hates fags, OK, that's
not the whole message that we have.
But perhaps his ministry
Maybe he's a rageaholic.
That's the front burner issue,
the elephant in the room
that nobody else talks about.
That's not the only piece
of evidence for my argument.
The whole idea that Westboro Baptist
are the only ones going to Heaven.
If there was somebody else out there
preaching the unvarnished word
of God, from cover to cover,
If He did come back...
He'd be holding this sign.
..rather than....
I'm trying to tell you.
He'd be picketed by your church.
..rather than....
He'd be picketed by your church.
I seriously believe that.
You are seriously deluded.
I'm preaching what the Bible says.
You preach what your dark heart says.
I'm willing to talk with you,
but you're just being silly. I'm not.
Of course you are.
Want a ride back? I'm not being
silly. I don't think you have the
truth. You're running away from it.
You're just trying to turn yourself
into God by saying things ought to be
this way, or thus and such.
You are the one who has
the God complex, Louis, not me.
But I don't claim absolute truth.
I don't claim it of myself.
You pick and choose.
These people, we'll be nice to them,
I don't claim it of myself.
He'd be picketed by your church.
but not to those other ones.
Have you ever seen me be mean?
but not to those other ones.
Not you specifically. The church.
I am the church. Did you rejoice
when that church burned down?
You rejoice when soldiers die
in Iraq? Absolutely I do.
When people are knocked over by cars
and get cancer? Absolutely. Love it.
Come on.
'My time among the hatemongers of
Westboro Baptist Church was done.
'I'd expected to meet a group
that causes pain to people
in the outside world,
'but I'd been surprised to find
that the members of the church
were also paying a price.
'Shut off from the world, they
preach a hatred that reflects back
at them, confirming their beliefs
'and ultimately denying the right
to a normal life to the young.'
Are we going to go in my car? Yeah.
Mom, they're here.
They want to go for a coffee drink.
No. She says no.
OK.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
Have a coffee here. All right?
How come we couldn't go out?
I don't know.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
How's it going? Good.
of God Almighty.
That's true.
We have coffee in our house. OK.
But I'm special!
I listen to what my parents say.
I respect my parents, so...
No. What are you talking about?
I sense there's a little bit more
inner tension in you.
Inner tension? Yeah. A little bit.
Oh, no.
People who watch us
will be thinking there's a very
nice, charming, attractive woman
and moving out into the world
and maybe thinking in a few years
of starting a family.
Why does everybody have to get
married? Well, no one has to.
But why shouldn't everybody
have the choice?
I have the choice. You do
and you don't. It seems that it is
so inculcated in you
that the outside world is
this devilish, satanic place
Who would...even want
to marry someone who serves God?
I don't blame you for being born
into a situation
outside your control
and I can also see that you're
coming to a time in your life
where you might start
That time has come and gone.
I've already reached the age
where I have made the decision
of what I want to do.
I've already reached the age
Did you have a rebellious few years?
Louis, if I ever was rebellious,
do you think I would tell you
about it?
there's really no one for you
I'm ashamed of any nonsense
that I've ever done.
When we started picketing,
when I was First Grade...
Six years old.
People have been treating me
the way you see us being treated now
since I was that young,
What did they do? Well, nobody
wanted to talk to me at school.
And, um,
they were ashamed to be around me.
You know that sense of being
ostracised? Uh-huh. If you preach
that the world is hateful,
and full of condemned sinners,
then the world will start
to take that shape.
Well, it's very simple.
We read scriptures and we tell people
what the standard is.
We don't do violence to people.
We, um...
warn them that their sins
are taking them to Hell.
are taking them to Hell.
We do a courteous, loving thing
to them.
That's courteous and loving.
And they...
hate us.
And they...beat on us.
What did we do to them?
Nothing but a courtesy. So...
That's quite a weird kind
of courtesy. How is it weird?
Going to funerals and waving those
placards. We preach to the living,
we warn them.
with us. They're just downright mean
Are you afraid of going to Hell?
with us. They're just downright mean
Um, I fear the wrath of God.
I fear, um, going to Hell.
with us. They're just downright mean
we warn them.
But I...certainly hope I won't go
there. I think you laughed
at the idea of me in Hell
with us. They're just downright mean
we warn them.
because maybe it made you feel
that you weren't going to Hell.
I laughed at the thought of you
going to Hell because...
I know you, Louis,
and you're a scoffer and a mocker.
It gives me pleasure to know that
the Lord will vindicate His people
and He will glorify His own name.
That's all this is about.
Glorifying God.
So...
That's why I smiled.
Come on. I haven't scoffed at you.
Let's get out to the picket.
Glorifying God.
and He will glorify His own name.
Come on. I haven't scoffed at you.
Glorifying God.
Rules that you should obey.
Did you do it for me?
Yeah, so you can carry it around,
so you can know all the rules
of obeying God.
Don't kill people.
Don't marry two people. Don't lie.
I think everyone lies some
in their life.
Maybe when they're a kid.
Do not act like a snake.
More especially you again.
All of these, I guess. What does
that mean? Act like a snake?
I can't remember.
Hey! You gave us that...
No, no.
Don't say that. Like a snake?
You clarify for him.
Yeah. Don't act like a snake.
Then it says, "Don't be sneaky".
All of these, I guess. What does