I Am Big Bird: The Caroll Spinney Story (2014) Movie Script
(THEME MUSIC PLAYING)
HOST: Number One,
what is your name, please?
My name is Caroll Spinney.
HOST: Number Two.
My name is Caroll Spinney.
HOST: Number Three.
My name is Caroll Spinney.
Funny. I watch him
all the time
and I don't recognize him.
But here is
Caroll Spinney's story.
If he were performing
100 years ago,
he'd be the king
of vaudeville.
He is a master.
Everyone recognizes that.
You can't argue with that.
He is a master.
WOMAN: Number Three,
what were you before
you were Big Bird?
I was in a series called
Bozo The Clown.
JERRY NELSON:
He goes right to the heart
of the bird, you know.
There is something about
Caroll that has that...
Also that
child-like innocence.
How did you get that job?
Jim Henson saw me performing
at a puppet festival.
I mean, just look
at the legacy.
It's like, 43 years.
And Caroll has been
doing it from day one.
NORMAN STILES:
He is Big Bird.
There is no question
in my mind that
Big Bird is him
and he is Big Bird.
You'll look inside
and you'll see feathers.
He has made an extraordinary
worldwide icon with that bird.
And Number Two,
how many times do you
appear on Sesame Street?
On every show?
All but the three
in this last season.
MAN: Who doesn't know
who Big Bird is?
From my two-year-old niece
to my
eighty-something-year-old
grandmother, like,
and everywhere
in between, everyone
knows who he is.
I like being miserable.
That makes me happy.
MAN: It does now?
But I don't like being happy,
so that makes me miserable.
(MAN LAUGHING)
J. MILLIGAN:
There's this sort of Yinyang
thing going on with
Big Bird and Oscar
and that the bird certainly
comes from him,
from his soul,
from his childhood
and Oscar is part of him too.
HOST: And that does us in.
We must form an opinion
and we must decide.
Is it One?
Or is Two? Or is it Three?
LAURENT LINN:
Big Bird and Oscar
are two of the most
known and famous characters
on planet Earth.
Yet, Caroll...
People don't know who he is.
The votes are all in.
Will the real
Caroll Spinney
please stand up?
(PEOPLE APPLAUDING)
CAROLL: I saw a puppet show
when I was a little boy.
And I thought,
"That was great."
I thought that was
the greatest thing that
they could tell stories
with their little striped
puppets on their hands.
That little... Yeah.
MAN: That one? Okay.
Thank you.
I never got to Ireland.
MAN: Yeah. I was
looking for it.
I regret that.
I'm not traveling anymore,
you know.
CAROLL: Yeah.
JERRY: You travel for me.
Send me pictures.
Okay.
CAROLL: Not long after that,
I found a puppet for
five cents at a rummage sale.
And so I made a sign
that said,
"Puppet show, two cents."
Everybody went away smiling.
I can't imagine what I used
for a story or a show.
But I thought, "Wow,
I'm gonna be a puppeteer
when I grow up."
Oh.
Good morning, Lars.
How are you?
My mother was delighted
that I was interested
in puppets.
She was an artist.
And she encouraged my art.
She made a whole
Punch and Judy set for me.
And she built a puppet
theater with the help
of my brother.
She would get inspired
and write me a new story.
So, I ended up with twelve
different stories.
JUDY VALENTINE:
She was a little,
huggable lady.
She was fun.
So you know where Caroll
got some of that.
And she was so excited
about what he was doing.
CAROLL:
She didn't realize that
she was giving me my career.
She was a great mom.
My father didn't feel that
I was gonna make a living.
As being an artist,
I was going to starve
in a garret.
He did have a rather
bad temper.
And I seemed to know
how to trigger it.
I was only six
and I knocked a can of paint.
He went nuts.
I squirmed out of his arms,
he grabbed me by my leg
and he swung me around
and threw me
across the room.
He picks up the clothes rack
over the hot air register.
He brought it over his head
and he started swinging it
right at me.
Just then, my mother
managed to get between
me and the rack.
It gave her the worst bruises
I have ever seen in my life.
It wasn't the last argument
that I had with my dad.
He let me borrow his car.
He insisted that
he had half a tank.
He didn't.
He had just over
a quarter tank.
And he said that I had
cheated him.
It was such
an awful argument.
I thought that it'd be good
to go away.
That day I went off and
enlisted in the air force.
I count the four years
I had in the air force
as some of the great
years of my life.
I even had my own
television show.
And it was only eight years
after television had begun
in the U.S.
So, I was feeling pretty
good that I had broken
in TV that quickly.
When I got out
of the service,
I was now 23,
so I started going out
looking for jobs.
I went to Walt Disney
to get a job.
And I said
"What will be the pay?"
Fifty-six dollars a week.
And I walked out.
(CHUCKLES)
I tried to get back
into TV in Boston.
And I teamed up with
a lovely girl named
Judy Valentine.
JUDY: With one hour,
we had no script.
We just did it,
just the three of us.
CAROLL: They had double
the Nielsen rating
of the show
we were replacing,
so it seemed like
they'd wanna pick it up,
but they didn't.
JUDY: But it didn't happen,
except that
they moved us
to The Bozo Show.
But we were lucky
because we stayed together.
Woo-hoo-hoo!
FRANK AVRUCH:
We're talking in the '60s.
A low budget show.
We didn't have a script.
We'd all get together
at a production meeting
in the morning.
"Okay, what are we gonna
do today?"
CAROLL: It was so much fun
playing many different
characters on the show.
AVRUCH: He just has a knack
of creating characters
and making them come alive.
Billy Bill dogdern.
Got this big juicy pie.
Hey, how about saying,
"So long," boys and girls,
to Kooky Kangaroo?
AVRUCH: And just,
he's very creative.
He is a wonderful artist.
He created the animation
for the actual Bozo Show.
Hey, Butch.
What's up, Bozo?
JUDY: I know he thought
he had more to offer.
Hey, this is just
like Shakespeare.
It's so...
He was just too
talented to be
so stuck.
CAROLL: I loved working
with Frank Avruch
on The Bozo Show.
But I didn't feel
it was particularly important.
It was mind candy.
I wanted to do something
more important with puppets.
So I decided to go
to a puppet festival.
And it was a case of being
in the right place
at the right time.
So, first we'll have,
guess who, Jim...
(CHUCKLES)
(ALL LAUGHING)
Jim Henson's here.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Uh, I was just
looking in, uh...
I keep a little notebook
of what I did and
when, you know.
And so, it was in August
of 1969,
and there was a puppetry
festival in Salt Lake City.
And that was where
I first met Caroll.
CAROLL: I had use
of a beautiful Acme
animation stand.
Made a beautiful film
to be projected onto
a theater I built
with a rear
screen projection.
ANNOUNCER: In 30 seconds.
CAROLL:
Then, at the last
minute, I hear that
Jim Henson was in
the audience.
My name is Jim Henson
and I am a puppeteer.
And I am called a puppeteer
because I work with puppets.
I am working
the left hand
and the head.
And I am working
the right hand.
CAROLL: I had first seen
The Muppets in 1960
and said, "Now,
"that's puppets that really
speak to me."
My show was introduced and
I briefly explained this
was experimental theater.
The curtains open
and I look up
and to my horror,
I can't see the screen.
There's a big floodlight
has been put on.
I look up and I can see
this giant spot of light
which I had not put on.
And it was washing out
my screen so extremely,
I couldn't see anything
on the screen,
so I couldn't stay in sync.
There was no sense
in going on with it.
So, I walked between the
projector and my screen
and I started pantomiming
pulling my hair out.
Then, I suddenly
hear a voice.
"Hi, there."
And it was Jim Henson.
He said, "I liked
what you were trying to do."
And I thought,
"Gee, that's very neat."
JANE HENSON: (ON TAPE)
"And actually, the idea
that Jim first saw him
"handling a lot of mishaps
in his own show,
"actually, it was to his
advantage, because
"that's the kind
of quality that Jim
wanted in a Big Bird."
CAROLL: He had said,
"Why don't you come down
to New York
"and talk about The Muppets?"
And I just thought
he wanted to talk shop.
So he said it again.
I said,
"What do you mean?"
He said,
"Work for The Muppets."
Open up new worlds
on a street...
Hey, Rowlf.
Hmm?
Why don't you call
your show, Sesame Street?
You know, like,
"open sesame."
It kind of gives the
idea of a street
where neat stuff happens.
We want to emphasize
that the children's television
workshop is an experiment.
Research is woven into
the total fabric of the show.
There was no question
in my mind
that television could
teach little children.
The trick was to make it
entertaining.
It was the end of the '60s
when Sesame Street
came into being.
The times they were
a-changin'.
The world was waiting
for a change, I think.
And we were part of it.
Kermit, why, you are a genius.
(KISSING)
Yuck.
Sesame Street. I love it.
The kids will love it.
(SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY)
After he goes toes then
I went to hands.
After the hands went back.
CAROLL: First day
of taping came.
And I was going to be working
with Frank Oz and Jim Henson.
Stand by.
Tape is rolling.
Of course, I had great
tension over it.
Jim Henson was a true
genius in every way.
He and Frank had been
working together
for some years already.
And they
could tell each other's
thoughts practically.
Jim and I were very, very
aggressive performers.
You have to be kind of
aggressive and selfish to
have a main character.
He wasn't that kind of guy.
CAROLL: It was all good fun.
But I was worried about doing
good puppetry.
We were doing a song
where we're all singing,
"Ice cream, ice cream,
we all scream for ice cream."
CAROLL: My problem has always
been with the rhythm getting
into each song.
Well, I would miss the first
syllable every time.
And so I'm starting
to feel pretty bad
'cause I miss it.
The third time I could
just feel I didn't get it.
Jim looked over and saw
that there was a monitor
over there.
And he could go look
at it by himself
and not have to crane over
people's heads.
And he didn't see me
walk up and watch
just behind him.
And he just quietly says,
"Garbage."
And I said, "Oh, God."
I said, "I'm not good enough
to be a muppeteer.
"I'll resign
"and you can get somebody
who can do it right."
Jim was very, very gentle
and understanding.
He didn't yell at me.
He just showed
that he was a patient
and gentle, nice guy.
FRANK OZ: I remember
a feeling that I have
of Caroll that I feel
bad for him
that he was not
committing himself
to the characters enough
because he was kind of
in awe of Jim.
I think he didn't
fulfill his full talent
at that point.
CAROLL: At first, I didn't
have an awful lot to do.
Big Bird was barely
in the show.
He was just being introduced
and Oscar was too.
So, I did a lot
of right hand work.
I did Ernie's right hand.
Because, with puppets
like Ernie,
it takes two people
to do the puppet.
He didn't
fit in and he knew it.
CAROLL: I thought,
"I don't think I can stand
coming here anymore."
I didn't have enough money
to rent an apartment.
For a while, I was sleeping
on a foldout couch
up in Spanish Harlem.
There was still
trash in the streets,
and I'm stepping over trash.
Boston wasn't like that.
So, I had the problem
of what to do.
Silly doors.
MAN: That's Big Bird.
(CHILD CHATTERING)
CAROLL: I decided to quit.
I was going up the stairs
to Jim's office.
And Kermit Love was there,
who was the builder
of Big Bird.
He'd become a good friend.
He saw my grave-looking
face and he said,
"What are you doing?"
I said,
"I'm going up to quit."
He said,
"You'll never get another
opportunity like this again."
I said, "Yeah, but I can't
stand New York."
He said, "It will get better.
"Just give it another month."
Look, she's eight
feet tall.
No, she's not.
She's only four feet tall.
I'm holding her up,
Big Bird.
CAROLL: Big Bird, at first,
he was a very goofy guy.
Kind of a country yokel.
You're not a bird.
I'm a bird.
Birds are big.
CAROLL: And I said,
"You know something?
"I think that maybe,
he should be a kid.
"He just happens
to be a big kid."
The producers agreed.
Oh, hello.
MAN: Big Bird,
why are you doing that?
Just because.
CAROLL: The scripts suddenly
were all Big Bird and Oscar.
And they were terrific.
I couldn't even imagine
how I could even have
thought about leaving
such an opportunity.
And then I really
got into it.
The second year
I began to sail.
ANNOUNCER: All rehearsed,
all ready to go to see
somebody special.
One of our biggest
yellow feathered friends.
Who is it?
ALL: Big Bird.
ANNOUNCER: You got it.
BOB McGRATH:
I think it was most
apparent to us
the first time we really got
out and performed for kids.
Every time we mentioned
Big Bird,
the place erupted.
It was like a mini Woodstock.
(PEOPLE APPLAUDING)
One of the stars
of Sesame Street, Big Bird.
Caroll has become,
and has created a,
I think, a superstar,
but everybody
in the world knows
who Big Bird is.
You are writing for a
very naive, every-kid.
Here I am.
(SINGING)
There's nothing
to compare him to.
He has managed to learn
how to speak directly
to the hearts
of probably anyone
from two to five, six,
seven-year-olds
and to grownups,
as a matter of fact.
I think it would be quite
unbearable
if we did not know that Caroll
is also Oscar the Grouch.
(ALL LAUGHING)
Oscar, in his own way,
was a breakout character.
I think if the show
was being created today,
you
probably wouldn't get a
character like Oscar approved.
(CHUCKLES)
Listen, it's fun
to be a grouch.
NORMAN: What he really
is about is testing
the limits of
different perspectives
and how we accept
somebody with a totally,
totally different perspective.
He is not evil,
he is not cruel.
He's just really grouchy.
Gosh, Oscar,
you know, deep down,
you're really a nice person.
I am not.
When we wrote Oscar
in the beginning,
Oscar is a totally
negative character.
He is the dark side
of everybody.
He is what children
are constantly told
they must not do.
CAROLL: I've had a running
battle with Jon Stone,
a fabulous director,
and the original
head writer.
He didn't like that I gave
Oscar a heart of gold.
He fights very hard against
my concept of Oscar.
You're a sweetheart.
No, I'm not. I'm terrible.
...do think that why
we care so much about
Big Bird and Oscar too,
is that we know inside
those creatures
beats the heart
of a great human being.
My first wife didn't care
for me being in show
business at all.
Didn't care for me
being an artist either.
She never looked at my work.
We were married
for eleven and a half years.
He was married to somebody
who didn't appreciate Caroll,
who didn't appreciate
his work.
CAROLL:
I had a divorce in 1971.
My son was only a year
old when it happened.
One day, I was waiting
for a scene to begin.
Then, this woman came over
and started saying
things of praise
about Big Bird.
I had tears streaming
down my face,
but I'm inside the bird,
so she had no idea
how absolutely miserable
I was at that moment.
And so Big Bird said,
"Thank you very much."
But inside, I was dying.
EMILIO DELGADO:
It was very sad to me because
Caroll was, you know,
very distraught
and we just felt for him.
CAROLL: When I'd go home,
it was the worst time.
One morning I got up
and it was a fog
and terrible storm
in my head
of how unhappy I was.
Suicide came strongly
in my mind.
And that it might
be a refuge.
And I opened the window
and looked down
the nine stories.
I closed the window quickly
and I walked away from it
and said,
"It isn't that bad.
"You will find another day
that is better."
I think no matter
how black a day is,
if you can just hold on,
the sun will eventually
come out for you.
It was really good
when we were doing
Sesame Street
'cause it kept me busy.
Mickey?
Yeah.
I've heard of a mouse
of the same name.
OSCAR: I hate birthdays.
The trick's on me.
You're such an angel.
(KISSING)
Yuck, yuck.
WOMAN: I know we like that...
CAROLL:
They're all good people
and good friends.
(PEOPLE CHEERING)
Hey, I had to drive
from New Jersey.
All the people involved...
It was like a big family.
BOB:
Pick your best friend,
pick your brother
and just go have
a wonderful time doing
extraordinary things
that are gonna be shown
all over the world.
CAROLL: They helped me
a lot all through
the pain of my divorce.
I was single for a while
and I was walking through
headquarters
and there was a girl typing.
And I said,
"Oh, my gosh, I'm in love."
One look at her
and she was the person
I needed to have in my life.
So I said, "Well, I was
wondering if you'd like to
go out to dinner some night."
She said, "Oh, thank you
for asking, I'd love to,
"but I have other
obligations."
And I said,
"Well, naturally
she'd be taken."
Near Christmas,
they had
a wonderful party for
Sesame Street workers.
I saw another pretty girl.
She had longer hair.
Same story.
She was obligated otherwise.
Almost six months go by
and we're doing a special.
DEBRA SPINNEY:
I went to that.
Brought my niece,
little three-year-old Megan,
'cause she wanted
to meet Luis.
The minute that I held
Megan on my hip
to introduce her to Luis,
Caroll popped up.
CAROLL: And I said,
"Would you wanna
go out to dinner?"
I said, "Yes."
And I remember when
we crossed the street
at Central Park West,
it was very crowded
and he took my hand.
And honestly, at that moment
when he held my hand,
it was very protective
and really lovely.
I knew I would be with him
for the rest of my life.
CAROLL:
So we were sitting there.
She raised a glass and said,
"Here's to your persistence."
And I said,
"What do you mean?"
"Well, you know,
remember, you asked me out
when I was typing,
"then you asked me out
at the Christmas party
"and then again, of course,
at the recording studio."
I said, "You were all
those girls?" (CHUCKLES)
I had no idea that I was
asking out the same girl.
Thirteen days later,
we were walking down Broadway
and it suddenly
occurred to me,
if she is not in my life
for the rest of my life,
I don't know
what I would do.
So, I suddenly
whirled her around.
I said,
"You will marry me,
won't you?"
And I was like,
(STAMMERING) "Yes."
I was so nervous,
but I said yes.
JESSICA:
They are so in love
that some people
actually tell me
that they are just faking
because it can't be real.
They can't get
enough of each other.
And that's inspiring to me.
He brought her home
and I said, "Mom?" "Yep."
And that was it.
She was mom.
OZ: What Debbie,
I think, did is actually
appreciate his work.
She appreciated
and supported
all the things that he loved.
If you are around people
that you love and care about,
that part of that
goes into your art.
LAURENT:
She holds it all together
and it frees him to
be the free spirit that he is.
(CAROLL SPEAKING)
(JANE HENSON ON TAPE)
"When Debbie came
into the picture,
"Caroll was so much
more solid.
"And it was so obvious
that Caroll just worked
"so much better when Debbie
was with him
"and I just felt like
"if it was put in place
in the beginning
"that she had to
always be allowed
to travel with him,
"that it would be
all so much better."
BIG BIRD: Hey, everybody.
This is the Great Wall
of China.
DEBRA: We love to travel.
And Big Bird and Oscar
take us around the world.
Ist das Deutschland?
CAROLL: I never realized
the puppet shows
I was doing as a kid
would open doors to me
all over the world.
It is so wonderful
to be back here in Vancouver.
Such nice weather.
(PEOPLE LAUGHING)
Never mind, you can
have this for gratis.
Yeah, but can I have it
for free too?
(CHUCKLES)
That, too.
And of course, meeting people
is really great too.
It's got a driver, right?
And lots of seats for people
to sit on, right?
Yeah, you got it, shorty.
We haven't met
Paul McCartney yet,
though.
That's still the bucket list.
(LAUGHING)
So, just putting it
out there.
CAROLL: One time,
Deb and I...
The phone rang and by gosh,
it was Jim.
And he said,
"I've been awfully busy.
Wanna go to a movie?"
Amongst the puppeteers,
amongst the Muppet family,
there is a real closeness.
And Caroll often
isn't part of that.
I just think that he is
so happy with Debbie
and their world.
CAROLL: Gradually,
it got more and more,
so we would spend
more time with him.
He just acted like a friend,
not like a boss.
I think my dad
found Caroll delightful.
Caroll is delightful.
They had a real, genuine
friendship and would
spend time together.
I don't think Caroll ever
had that kind of friendship
with some of the others.
CAROLL: He was just
unlike anyone else.
To do nothing with Jim
was probably the most fun.
You could see him
just kind of come
down from it all,
'cause, you know,
he's such a genius,
he's always thinking.
Did you wish to
see me about something?
CAROLL: The day he hired me,
he hadn't had a vacation
in three years
and he didn't care.
He said,
"I'd much rather work
then go on a vacation."
I'm sort of the opposite.
Super nice to have you here.
But unfortunately,
we have to keep going
and you get to go home.
So...
CAROLL: I never lost
my awe for the man.
He was awesome.
KERMIT: Caroll is leaving.
JIM: Yes.
The rest of us are working,
but Caroll is leaving,
but that's okay.
Bye, Caroll.
CAROLL: Goodbye.
Bye, Caroll.
ALL: Bye, Caroll.
Bye, Caroll. See you.
Nice working with you.
ALL: Bye.
CAROLL: We were driving
home from New York,
and I put the radio on.
And they said,
"It's a Hollywood minute.
"It's Bob Hope.
What's up, Bob?"
He says, "I'm going to
Beijing, Red China,
"and I'm gonna walk
arm in arm with
my big buddy, Big Bird."
I looked at Deb and said,
"Oh, my God."
Bob Hope, He's asked me
to go perform with him.
Guess where. Peking, China.
Really? You've wanted to go.
CAROLL: Yes.
DEBRA: Going to China
with Bob Hope was
probably one of
the highlights
of our whole lives.
We're the first television
show to be allowed in once
it was opened up.
It looked like 1930s.
CAROLL:
It was an unknown
at the time.
We hadn't been exactly
cordial in either direction
with them.
Our translator was a spy.
He actually had to make
reports on everything we did.
Turned out they are awfully
pleasant people to visit.
DEBRA: When Big Bird
walked down the street,
many, many people thought
he was a real big bird.
It was just magical.
'Cause we had
such a good time in China
with Bob Hope,
when we came back,
we were determined
to get Big Bird back there.
Selfishly, so we could
get back there.
We came up with the idea that
maybe he could go
on a quest and look
for the phoenix,
'cause it's a bird.
Seemed to make sense.
We went to Jon Stone,
and we said,
"This is something
we really got to do
and, you know,
"give you this idea
and I hope you can
run with it."
Which he did.
It was difficult.
It was a difficult shoot.
We were way under-staffed.
There were people
like Frank Oz carrying cases
onto boats and across canals
because there was no one
else to do it.
CAROLL: We had to get
on a boat.
They had a monsoon rain.
And the Li river
was churning.
And I am in the bird.
If I fell in, we'd have
to abandon the bird.
It'd be the end
of the production.
That was terrifying work.
VICTOR: Caroll was amazing.
He was in essentially every
shot in this thing.
But he is such a trooper
that he just did
what he had to do.
Xiao Foo, we found it.
The monkey with the clue.
We found it, Xiao Foo.
Oh, gee.
What's the matter?
CAROLL: Jon Stone
was the writer-director.
And he introduced the little
girl into the story.
DEBRA: Xiao Foo is the most
adorable thing.
She was kind of the little
girl who goes on the quest
with Big Bird.
I communicate with Caroll
in a spiritual way.
Because I don't know
about English.
But I can kind of feel
what he wanted me to do.
She turned out
to be a remarkable child.
She was perfect for it.
The three of us were like
this little group, you know.
We gave them nicknames.
So, Big Bird is Da niao.
Means Big Bird.
And Deb is Xiao niao.
Means small bird.
I still remember it
all the time.
Nobody ever gave me
that much love.
DEBRA:
When we had to leave China,
it was... It was horrendous.
LISA: I cried.
I cried all the time.
And I love them so much.
And they suddenly
just disappeared.
CAROLL: It was very,
very disappointing when
we got to the airport
and found that
we couldn't find her.
It was terrible because
we hadn't said goodbye.
LISA: Even for a small kid,
I had still gotten
the feeling, how harsh it was.
DEBRA: One point, I think
they kind of allowed her
to come out of this back room
and then she came
into our arms
and we hugged
and we kissed and we cried
and she cried.
The whole place was crying.
And then they separated us
and we had to go through.
And we
waved goodbye and we hadn't
seen her
again or heard from her.
CAROLL:
We wrote letters to her.
Never heard any answers.
And the government
was nervous about us
getting close to each other,
I think.
MICHAEL DAVIS: Jon Stone
and Caroll Spinney had
a fascinating relationship
and when they were filming
Big Bird in China,
it was a very difficult shoot.
Jon was really the key
person on Sesame Street.
He was really, I'd say,
the father of Sesame Street.
He was my hero,
I must say that.
He gave me many
opportunities that I would not
have gotten without him.
He was brilliant as a writer,
as a director, as a producer,
there was nothing that Jon
could not have excelled at.
He was able to pick up
a script in the morning
and then shoot the thing
as if it was nothing.
And utterly brilliant
in his creativity.
But very difficult.
Nobody would deny that.
(STONE SPEAKING)
(CAROLL SPEAKING)
DAVIS: He wasn't an angel.
He did not suffer
fools gladly.
And he had his moments
with Caroll Spinney.
It seemed bigger to us
because we didn't really
have much of that.
We were a family.
CAROLL: When I began,
we had a wonderful
relationship.
Somehow, I don't
know what happened.
It kind of soured.
DEBRA: For example, in China,
at the end of the day,
Jon would go around,
pat everybody on the back,
"Great job, great job."
And he walked right by Caroll.
I never could quite
understand why there was
a little bit of tension
and friction at times there.
But there was.
CAROLL: One morning,
I was poised
with Oscar in hand,
hunched behind
the trash can.
Oscar pops up,
and I blew a line.
It's not unusual.
It's not like it was a flaw.
It's just...
Everybody does that.
CAROLL: He goes on
the big speaker
system and saying,
"Stop. You're clowning
around, making mistakes."
That was the only mistake
I had made.
So, I stood up and said,
"I can't work like this."
It was so...
I was in shock.
Jon was yelling at him
when I went into the booth
and, you know,
reprimanded Jon.
I mean,
I could have lost my job,
I don't know, but
Luis is very protective
of Big Bird, you know.
JON: So,
camera two has got this.
Camera three picks up
the bird going back.
Arnie will have
to be cleared.
So, camera two picks up
Madeline, carries her over...
They challenged each other
to be even better.
That dynamic actually
helped the performance
an enormous amount.
I really feel that he is
the best director ever
for Big Bird was him.
But I often felt when
I worked with him that I...
I was back in school,
because I didn't have
a great time going
to high school.
DEBRA:
I know that his childhood
was so frustrating for him
'cause he... His personality
is such that, I think,
he really just wants
to be liked,
which reminds me of Big Bird,
'cause that's very, very much
what I think of Big Bird.
CAROLL: You don't get
treated great when
you're the littlest guy
in a class with big ears.
And having the name
Caroll didn't help.
Some would say,
"Oh, Caroll, you playing
with your dolls?"
'Cause I had puppets
since I was eight years old.
DEBRA: When Caroll
talks about anything
that's emotional,
even if it happened
sixty years ago,
it's as if it's happening
right now.
You know, I think he's one
of those people
that, that, that feeling
doesn't go away.
CAROLL: When I was
in the tenth grade,
I remember getting
badly bullied
and a story told around
that I was...
Well, the word gay
wasn't used then.
And the story
just progressed
into this awful tale.
And I went through
the worst misery of my life.
And I was so hurt.
I was so angry.
I looked out the window
with tears burning in my eyes,
I said, "Someday,
"those bastards are gonna
brag they knew me."
JON: And cut. Okay...
And then, if we have time...
So, you're over here,
closed up on Snuff.
MAN: All righty.
JON: And two is
a close-up on Bird.
Do the next two
seconds that way and
then we'll do the dance.
MAN: Whatever
your heart desires
CAROLL:
So, we start over here.
JON: Let's do
one more for safety.
JON: And...
MAN: Ready, Bird?
CAROLL: Yeah.
JON: Five...
CAROLL: Big Bird is
actually low-tech.
You have to do it
by putting your hand
up into the head.
My right hand operates
the mouth of the puppet.
CAROLL:
With my little finger,
I could push a lever up
and down and it raises
his eyebrows.
This is just a couple
of pounds
and like, while you
are talking to somebody,
hold it above your head.
Also, do it blindfolded
and wearing like,
a down coat.
CAROLL: The left hand
is strictly just in
the left wing.
And there is a fishing
wire that goes up through
the neck of Big Bird
down to the right wing
and operates
as a counter balance.
SCHUPBACH:
There's the Big Bird legs,
which Caroll
wears like pants.
Couture pair of giant
orange pants.
Inside, it is completely
disorienting.
Because, everything
inside glows yellow.
But you have a monitor
on your chest
that shows you
what people see at home.
CAROLL: We call the device
I wear an Electronic Bra.
LAURENT: The puppeteers
all read the script while
they're puppeteering.
CAROLL: I figured out a way
to take my scripts inside.
I call it "script origami."
So, Caroll inside Big Bird
has the script right here
with his little glasses
reading the lines while
he's looking at the monitor
while he's doing
all these other things.
The confusing thing about
looking at a monitor
is you at home see
Big Bird walk off
to your right,
I have to actually
walk to my left.
WOMAN: Sorry.
Stop, there's a cable.
Come to your left.
Here I am.
MILLIGAN: So, like,
with his right hand,
he is worried about
eye line and lip sync.
With his left hand,
he's just trying to
keep the thing alive,
you know, with his
feet, he's trying not to
trip over a monitor
or you know, Carmen,
and meanwhile,
he's supposed to be
looking at this little monitor
which is his only window
out to the world.
Taped around the monitor
is his script.
It is really quite
an amazing dance
and coordinated effort
to pull that thing off.
SCHUPBACH:
And you just totally
take it for granted
that he is doing it
and it seems like an easy gig.
Um, it's not.
(DEBRA SPEAKING)
I think I saved his life
at least once.
Being Big Bird can be
hazardous to your health.
When you do this
over and over,
there is a tendon here,
a muscle
that heats up and you can
feel it getting hotter.
All of a sudden,
it just dropped.
It just turned off,
like you had turned off
a button for that arm.
MATT VOGEL: I've had,
you know, injuries
in my neck and back.
We've even had to stop
production so I could
lay down on the floor.
I thank goodness,
Caroll wasn't there that day.
I would have been
very embarrassed.
Wait a minute.
Look at this.
The horse's head
is completely missing.
Whee! (LAUGHING)
Oh, that is
wonderful, Bird.
Uh-oh.
JON: Action.
OSCAR: Hey, whoa,
I don't know what's
going on out there.
But I like what's
going on in here.
Wow, I feel like
a milkshake!
LAURENT:
What a wrangler does is
really working
with the puppeteers
extremely closely.
Good, how are you, Big Bird?
Hello.
It's so nice to see you.
We're sort of like the NASCAR
pit team, but for The Muppets.
Constant maintenance
because there are 4,000
feathers on Big Bird.
LARA MacLEAN:
That's a big part of it,
and then,
you know, I feel like,
I am always watching
for Caroll's safety.
God forbid,
you're on a live event.
Oh, those are the worst.
CAROLL: One time,
we were doing a remote show.
DR. LORETTA LONG:
He had one of the first
wireless mics.
We didn't know
that you were supposed
to clear a channel.
And all of a sudden,
we were picking up
the trucker CB
like, coming out of the bird.
LORETTA:
Girlfriend was hooking
up for a date.
"Hey, Big Daddy.
18 wheeler.
"Your mama's waiting for you
at Exit 18 in a Winnebago."
(LAUGHING)
So, we said, "Wait a minute,
it's gonna be an
X-rated show."
I sort of panicked.
LORETTA: Mr. Fix-it McGrath
gets a wired mic
and shoves it through
the suit to Caroll's mouth.
Without really thinking
what it looked like,
I kind of just shoved it
right through his neck.
And of course, I am standing
in front of 14,000 children.
Bob just stabbed
Big Bird in the heart.
(LAUGHS)
We just...
We left the stage.
We just walked off.
One time when we were
on the road,
this is years and years ago,
and we were doing
a live show.
CAROLL: We left Big Bird
alone in a storeroom.
The ROTC students were
supposed to watch him
while we went out for lunch.
Big mistake.
CAROLL: I was sitting
on the lawn
eating a sandwich.
And all of a sudden
I see all these ROTC students
and they all got a yellow
feather in their hat.
We came back,
his whole quarter was bare.
They decided that
it'd be nice to
have some bird
feather souvenirs,
then they plucked a whole
chunk out of him.
It was like a desecration.
CAROLL: Somebody tried
to take one of his eyes.
It was broken
and hanging off.
And he was lying in the dirt.
And I saw that,
I burst into tears.
It was like seeing my child
raped and thrown on
the ground and destroyed.
EMILIO:
He was crying like somebody
had done that to him.
That's when I knew that
Big Bird and Caroll were one.
They were one and the same.
Big Bird.
I kind of have a
a great opportunity
which is to be Big Bird.
And I think it's
both a privilege
and kind of exciting to do,
because I kind of get
lost within the thing.
Well, I just drew pictures
of all of my grown-up
friends on Sesame Street.
And I am gonna
give it to you.
I'm gonna be
an artist when I grow up.
SONIA MANZANO:
When we shot the
Goodbye, Mr. Hooper show,
we were all
heartbroken that Will Lee,
our beloved cast member
who played Mr. Hooper
passed away.
Caroll, through Big Bird,
had to go through
the feelings
that a child would go through
if he lost someone.
Ta-da.
WOMAN: Oh, look at that.
It's nice.
ALL: So beautiful.
That's nice. So great.
JERRY: When we do
a character,
much of that character is us.
Where is he?
I wanna give it to him.
I have always loved Big Bird
because he is complicated.
So, he has a lot
of emotional qualities
that a lot of
the Muppets don't have.
Big Bird, don't you
remember we told you.
Mr. Hooper died.
He's dead.
Oh, yeah. I remember.
Well, I'll give it to him
when he comes back.
MATT: He can really
key into those emotional
moments and make them
feel very real.
DAVIS: There is something
about Carol.
Not many people have it.
He can
go back in time almost
and recreate the feelings
and the thoughts,
the questions and the fears
of a youngster.
Oh, he's gotta come back.
Who's gonna take care
of the store?
And who's gonna make
my bird seed milkshakes
and tell me stories?
We can all be very happy
that we had a chance
to be with him.
And to know him.
And to love him a lot
when he was here.
When he steps in the bird,
he is the bird,
when he steps out,
he is Caroll.
And there is very, very
little difference between
those two characters
in my mind.
And Caroll is brilliant
at making Big Bird
real.
You know, I am gonna
miss you. Mr. Looper.
That's Hooper,
Big Bird, Hooper.
Right.
(PEOPLE SINGING CHEERFULLY)
LAURENT: In Oscar,
a different part of Caroll
comes out in Oscar.
WOMAN: Is everything...
Doesn't look like
much to me.
Eh, let's go home.
TV HOST: Birds really
like to watch
other birds make love.
(PEOPLE GIGGLING)
Hey, listen, I'm from
a kids' show, you know.
(PEOPLE LAUGHING)
CAROLL: Oscar is pretty much
the same other than the fact
he is no longer orange.
Oh, come on now, Oscar.
Actually, if I took a bath,
I'd still be orange.
TV HOST: Really?
But this is moss.
At first, they had no idea
how to play this character
when Henson proposed
it back in '69
and I was rather scared.
I had just joined Muppets.
But a taxi cab driver said,
"Where to, Mac?"
It was on the way
to the rehearsal
and it was just in time.
So, I kept saying,
"What a great voice."
Where to, Mac? Where to, Mac?
Where to, Mac?
I said, "Go over
to the trash can
and knock on it
"and Oscar will come up."
So, Jim walks over,
then, clang, clang.
And I pop it open.
"Get away from my trash can!"
He said, "That'll do fine."
It really allows Caroll
to fully be himself
in both characters.
Well, anyway, you've seen
the best part of this movie.
So, sit back, relax,
and have a rotten time.
OZ: We work as
an ensemble so much.
You know, a character
does not grow in a vacuum.
A character grows
because of playing
with the other character.
You got to play
catch with somebody.
Thank you! (LAUGHING)
The puppeteers are gonna sit
in a row next to each other.
The puppets are here,
their faces are exposed.
When they're working,
they can take cues
off each other.
Caroll, the way he has
to work is just different
than the way all the other
puppeteers have to work.
The characters that Jim
had designed
and was thinking about
required a solo puppeteer
to just pull the whole
performance from himself.
MATT: It's a very surreal
experience to be inside
and you can hear
everyone outside.
And it's almost...
You feel a little alone.
And the trash can works
in a similar way
because he's in there,
so Oscar is up there
and he's in this metal can.
It's just a different way
of working and a different
experience.
I'm not coming out at all
until I'm back on the plane
to Sesame Street.
LAURENT: Big Bird,
he lives by himself
in his nest.
He's his own creature
and there's no one like him.
Oscar the same way.
There are other grouches
but Oscar lives by himself
in his trash can,
very happy to live by himself
in his trash can.
MILLIGAN: He's drawing
on a slightly different
skill-set or just
the performance
has to come from
a slightly different place
than the other guys.
LAURENT:
He's not a loner at all.
But there's a part of him,
I think, that...
He does enjoy doing
his own thing.
And kind of marching
to his own drummer.
And it does come out
with Big Bird and Oscar.
It sort of echoes
my childhood.
When I was a child,
I guess I wasn't...
I didn't play
on any teams or anything,
so everything I did
was rather solo.
And so
fortunately, both characters
that Jim gave me to play
are solo characters.
In other words, he selected
characters that worked out
just right for what I can do.
OZ: This is his strength.
His strength is,
maybe not ensemble,
because these two
characters are stars.
And Big Bird, of course,
became iconic.
DAVIS: Without Big Bird,
Sesame Street would not have
been what it became.
If you think that
John Travolta
and Saturday Night Fever
have taken the country
by storm,
wait till you
hear the album
that's being cut on the other
side of this door.
MAN: Robin, what is a BeeGee
doing on Sesame Street?
ROBIN: Well, Sesame Street
Fever is the answer.
DAVIS: You couldn't walk
down a street in America
without seeing a Big Bird
toy in the stroller.
MAN: Today, ladies
and gentlemen,
I proclaim this
Big Bird day in Hollywood.
(PEOPLE CHEERING)
I'm sure that Big Bird
is the most well-known
children's character
in the world.
And it's really neat, and
I think it's really due to
Caroll and his talent...
MAN: Bravo, yeah.
You're the biggest
chicken I've ever seen.
Oh, I'm not a chicken
actually.
I'm a bird on the run.
CAROLL: They decided
it was time to make
a feature film.
MARTIN BAKER: It was
the first time they'd made
a feature and it was clearly
all about Caroll
and Big Bird
and it was great fun
to work on.
He left his nest in
Ocean View, Illinois
last night
and is reportedly heading
east for a place called
(MISPRONOUNCING)
Sesame Street.
BIG BIRD: La la la la
Wa wa wa wa
(SNORING)
CAROLL: At the height
of Big Bird's popularity,
I got a wonderful letter
while I was on set.
And it was from NASA.
It said that they
were worried that
children of America
weren't particularly
interested in
NASA's program.
But Big Bird was so popular,
they thought that
if he went up in the shuttle
that everybody would
watch a lot more.
So, would I be willing
to orbit the earth?
He really kind of
looked at me and said,
"Should I say yes?"
Because it's scary.
You know, it could be
the last thing he ever does.
But on the other hand,
who is ever gonna
get that chance?
So, of course, we both
agreed that you
have to take it.
It's something
you have to do.
And I said,
"I'm willing to do it."
About a month later,
we heard from them that
there was no room to put
Big Bird on the ship.
We had to cancel.
We were filming
Sesame Street the day
that it went up.
I stopped production,
said, "We gotta
watch the take-off."
So, they switched
all our monitors
to the broadcast.
And we could see
the ship take off.
ANCHOR: This is a special
report from Channel 4 News.
CAROLL: They decided
to have a teacher
go in my place.
And so, the children
of America would be
watching a teacher.
MAN ON RADIO 1: And lift-off.
Lift-off...
MAN ON RADIO 2:
Challenger go
in throttle up.
MAN:
The shuttle mission
will launch...
My God, there's been
an explosion.
We must assume
that the crew is not alive.
This is unheralded
in the history of
the space program.
This is WRN news
with Jessica Spinney.
Today, we are going to
interview Caroll Spinney.
Hello.
Nice to meet you.
It wasn't your traditional
family upbringing, you know.
I didn't see him
for breakfast,
lunch and dinner.
Today, we are going to ask
him about his career
playing Sesame Street.
He'd be gone traveling a lot.
BENJAMIN: I only saw him
on the weekends,
so, thought about him
all week, you know.
Finally get here and...
And hang out with Dad.
We generally saw
our children at least
every other week.
Once a while,
it had to be three weeks
because of a job
or something.
BENJAMIN: During the week,
I could watch Sesame Street
twice a day
and there's Dad, you know?
And we miss him,
turn on the TV
and, you know,
you close your eyes
and Big Bird sounds
just like Dad.
Oh, Snuffy.
Where are you?
But when they came
for the weekend,
it was nothing
but us and them.
No, but no, I had more
I wanted to say.
You wanna try...
But then, Sesame Street...
Well, no, my hobbies...
What did I say? Help, help.
I wanted to...
I can't remember
a bad time with him.
JESSICA:
He was hysterical. He was...
We did a lot of stuff
together.
He's an amazing person.
He could do anything,
you know?
MAN: High flying.
BENJAMIN: He was always fun,
always funny,
always doing something
for you.
I think he had a very
strict upbringing,
and he vowed he wasn't
gonna be like that.
Whenever he talked
about his father,
it was always about the past,
because it was really
traumatic.
I had such a great
relationship with my dad,
that I couldn't imagine
not loving your dad.
And so we talked about it
a lot and I said,
"That's not the way
it is anymore.
"Your father isn't that man."
And so I think Caroll
started to let it go.
It was a crystal clear,
gorgeous day in Los Angeles,
which almost never happens.
I've never seen
it happen before.
DEBRA:
And once he did that, then
he learned to love him.
Again.
CAROLL: We'll see you soon.
Love you.
CAROLL:
And when he was getting
very old, in his late 80s,
I said,
"You are a wonderful dad,
"You've always
been a wonderful dad to me."
He says, "Son, I think
you have a very poor memory."
And I think that
was a real apology, you know?
DEBRA: It was
7:30, about, in the morning
and Caroll answered the phone.
And at the time, Caroll's
father was very ill
and we were kind
of expecting, maybe,
that that call
was gonna come.
And I see him say,
"He died?"
And he just looked at me
and he said, "It's Jim."
We just
fell to the floor. We just...
It was, it was horrible.
The whole world
just turned upside down.
It was just so sad.
He was only 53.
And the finest guy.
I don't revisit the memorial
'cause it's just
too difficult.
It was such a swirl
of complex emotions,
especially loss.
It's not that easy
being green
Having to spend the day
the color of the leaves
when I think it could
be nicer
being red or yellow
or gold or something
much more colorful
like that
It's not easy
being green
It seems you blend in
with so many other
ordinary things
and people tend
to pass you over
'cause you are not
standing out like
flashy sparkles
on the water
or stars in the sky
But green is the color
of spring
And green can be cool
and friendly-like
And green can be big
like a mountain
or tall as a tree
or big as a sea
When green is all
there is to be
It could make you
wonder why
But why wonder,
why wonder
I am green
and it will do fine
It's beautiful
And I think it's
what I want to be
Thank you, Kermit.
OZ: It was extraordinarily
moving, you know,
'cause that character
is so sweet.
It, you know, tore people up.
You know, it was just
coming from that kind
of sweetness.
Inside, I was crying,
but I didn't
break down in the song.
I broke down later.
OZ: The question after
many, many months was,
you know, okay, now it's time
to figure out who is gonna
do Kermit.
Well, to begin with,
uh, do the take.
CAROLL: We had a wonderful
puppeteer in-house
that Debra and I
happened to discover
named Steve Whitmire.
And he was selected
to do Kermit.
Hi.
CHERYL: It is difficult
for a new performer
to take on a role
that is so established
and is so much a part
of one person's personality.
They always seemed to start
out as kind of an impression.
You know, it's the performer
trying to get the voice right.
I think it takes
a deep understanding
of the motivations
of the character
to be able to carry it on.
With Caroll and Big Bird,
it's that
sense of wonder and awe,
that child-like sense
of wonder and awe
that Caroll has.
(DEBRA LAUGHING)
It was about 1996
and they were looking for
someone who would
come in to
double for
Caroll as Big Bird.
CAROLL: It was
sort of intimidating
to think that someone
else is playing Big Bird.
I know I don't own
him or anything,
but I own his soul,
I feel.
CHERYL: He'd been
seeing a number of
different performers,
quite a few
and getting a little
bit dismayed of,
"Oh, how is this
really gonna work?"
And then
he met Matt Vogel.
Hi, everybody. Hi.
Uh, everybody?
He was so excited
and he came away and he said,
(GASPS) "Matt Vogel.
"You know, Vogel means
bird in German."
You were born for this job.
That bird.
(CHUCKLES)
So he became
the person
who will certainly be
the inheritor of the bird
when I can't
do it any longer.
But he is
a very patient man,
because that was at least
fifteen years ago.
MATT: I mean,
my job really is this,
if Caroll doesn't
wanna do something,
then, I am
the guy that does it for him.
So, if he does not want
to do the green screen,
I am more
than happy to do that for him.
(MEN SPEAKING)
MATT: I see Caroll
as a mentor, a teacher...
He's a friend of mine.
I'm very protective
of the character
because I'm very
protective of Caroll.
But I know
that my Big Bird is
different
than Caroll's Big Bird.
No matter what I do,
I can't
not make it be somewhat
more me than him.
The important thing
is that these characters,
that they
live on past the performer.
LARA: Big Bird
will live on forever.
What an amazing thing
that Caroll knows now
that Big Bird will live on.
Big Bird, he's my child,
and someday he'll be adopted.
I've noticed
something lately.
It all started about
eight years ago,
so some people on set
when they were handing
me something,
"This is the thing
you wanted, sir."
I realized that kind
of made me a little feel
separate from them.
Rectangular dollar bill.
MAN: Four sides.
Four sides.
MAN: Four corners.
Four corners.
When four of us were
doing 130 shows in
the early years,
to be only involved
in a handful of shows,
you know, I think of it
more as almost like a hobby.
EMILIO: I miss those days
in the early years
when we had actually
gone out on
the road with everybody,
you know, because,
we all got to know
each other.
We were getting to know each
other personally, you know.
Luis,
everything make me
think of cookies.
Now, that's
what I miss, that camaraderie.
You know, everybody has
grown up, gotten older.
VICTOR: My family grew up,
we all grew up,
some of them are passed on,
some of them have left and,
you know, I was kind of the...
The last of
maybe three people that were
there from the very beginning.
(CREW CHATTERING)
It's still a terrific show.
But it's a very, very
different kind of show.
Eventually,
the writing just shifted
to the younger characters.
Became a show
for two-year olds
and three-year olds.
And Big Bird isn't
necessarily a character
that two-year-olds
and three-year-olds
could get right away.
Chase Elmo, Big Bird,
chase Elmo.
(PANTING) Wait, wait,
wait, I'm...
Oh, whew, let's take
a break, Elmo.
DAVIS:
Elmo, on the other hand,
is so understandable
to a two-year-old
or a three-year-old,
they just get it.
Everybody,
Snuffy, Big Bird,
come see what Elmo did.
What have you done, Elmo?
Elmo just works.
Kids respond,
people respond to Elmo.
Elmo wrote his own song.
BIG BIRD: Really?
What's it called?
Elmo's song.
Oh, clever title.
Did it supplant Big Bird?
In a way, it did.
And I'm
sure that was maybe
a little tough for Caroll,
because, you know,
he had been
king of the road
for a long, long time.
DAVIS:
It's just so hard to sustain
a level of popularity
for any kind of character.
Somebody else
or something else comes along.
CAROLL: He turned out
to be in everything.
Didn't take me
too long to realize
that he was working
far more than I'd want to.
DAVIS: Caroll was
a little weary already
of the demands on his time
and what those appearances
take out of you.
DEBRA: He enjoys it
just as much.
But he also enjoys
not doing it.
He enjoys doing nothing
or drawing or, you know,
having picnics and all
that kind of stuff.
MAN: And wind,
and that's a wrap.
Thank you.
(CREW CHEERING)
DEBRA: Hello.
DAVIS: He has a life
beyond the studio,
beyond the character.
DEBRA: He's still drawing.
Couple of hours actually.
(CHUCKLES)
CAROLL: At first,
as a child, I'd say,
"I'm gonna be a puppeteer
when I grow up.
"That's it, I'm gonna
be an artist when I grow up."
So, I decided to try
to do both.
It's almost like he's
not putting it there,
it's almost like he's
uncovering it somehow.
I... I can't describe it.
CAROLL: Mostly now,
I draw Big Bird and Oscar.
Put him into events
that he never gets
to do on the show.
That's what I do
when I draw him.
DEBRA: And what is this one?
CAROLL: Twelve gorillas
in the closet.
(DEBRA LAUGHING)
Norman, we dedicate
this to you.
MILLIGAN: If Jim didn't tap
him to be Big Bird,
his life would be the same.
He's absolutely
a unique figure who
has a tremendous
sense of who he is
and what he wants
and what makes him happy.
And I really don't think
he needed Big Bird to do that.
He's, in a way,
blessedly normal.
Here's our chef.
Yeah.
Look at this food.
It looks like...
DAVIS: He loves his wife,
he loves his home.
He's worked hard
to have this balance.
Good for him for making
that life choice.
DEBRA:
Here we are at suite 2316.
Beautiful leis.
DEBRA: We document
almost everything.
Breathtaking views.
I think it's like
you capture memories
and if you have that,
you can always go back.
If one of us isn't here,
you still get to be together
and live it again.
CAROLL: Somebody said,
"Are you scared of death
"'cause it's closer
when you're this age?"
Not at all.
But I can't think
of many things
other than losing Debbie.
I mean, that's my...
I can't imagine life
without this
wonderful person in my life.
DEBRA:
We have this thing that
we kind of say to each other
that if one of us goes first,
we will meet
at the raspberries
and what that means is
Caroll described
it from a dream.
It's this big bush
that looks like
a raspberry bush but it's
not a raspberry bush.
But he calls it
"the raspberries," so
whenever we talk about,
you know,
if you go first
or I go first,
"Don't worry, I'll meet you
at the raspberries,"
and well, that's where
we're gonna meet.
MATT:
A lot of what I've
gained from him,
I've gained by watching him.
Watching him in life
and watching him as Big Bird.
LAURENT: One incredible
thing that Caroll
has said to me over the years
and in certain key parts
of my life,
"Never step back.
Always step forward."
It didn't mean
financially or
go up the ladder
of success.
But for yourself,
you have this life
and every day is precious.
When you
confront a brick wall,
find a way to keep
going forward.
(INDISTINCT STUDIO CHATTER)
CAROLL: I can't get over
how the years have gone by.
Forty years is a long time.
(MEN SPEAKING)
Both characters
are pretty demanding
Big Bird especially
is a physically
demanding character.
And even Oscar.
Only because
I know the man,
did I see when
he was taken out of the
costume that he was tired.
He was really pushing himself
more than he used to have to.
Everything is going wrong.
Gordon?
Gordon, are you okay?
We heard a crash!
Yes, yes I'm fine.
So there's
four of us left.
Five...
Five of us.
Over the years,
it is harder for him to...
Would be for anybody
who is 79 years old,
to hold your hand
in the air that long.
Your muscles change.
Big Bird is not
standing up as straight
and tall as he did
when Caroll was in his 30's.
But of course you
gain experience of life.
So, it's a balance.
Maybe Big Bird's posture
isn't what it once was,
but the benefits
of Big Bird is that he
is a much richer character.
If Caroll's age has affected
Big Bird, I haven't
seen it yet.
And I think he'd be man
enough to stand up and say,
"I need somebody to do
Big Bird for me," because
I think he believes
in the integrity
of the character.
Looks like an invitation.
Oh, an invitation
to what?
You are invited to join
the Good Bird's Club.
The Good Bird's Club?
That sounds like a great club!
The shows that I just watched
from the last season,
the writers found
Big Bird again
in a really cool way.
Joining the Good Bird's Club,
is not that simple.
It... It's not?
No... In fact,
you do not look like much
of a good bird to me.
CAROLL: I'd be willing to
do more shows with
Big Bird in it than I do now.
It's getting to be a
very small amount.
But yet, when they
really need him
and the chips are down,
he's a great example
of what they want to
say. And the writers
often will deal with
serious subjects,
in a great way, through him.
You know what buddy?
Who cares what they think.
They are just bullying you.
They are treating you as if
you are not good enough.
The question is
"What do you think?"
Well...
I kinda think
I like the way I was.
I think Big Bird still is
the icon of the show.
When people
think of Sesame Street,
they may think
of Elmo in a...
(STAMMERING)
In a popular way, but
in a very grounded
way, I think, Big Bird is
still the star of the show.
Obviously from the last
political
convention, we all learned
that he is still on the map.
I'm sorry, Jim. I am going to
stop the subsidy to PBS,
I'm going to stop
other things. I like PBS,
I love Big Bird.
There's been a lot of big talk
about a certain Big Bird.
(LAUGHING)
(SQUEALING)
I really hope,
no children are watching that.
DAVIS: Does this man not
understand how
Big Bird resides right
here in your heart?
Mother (BLEEP)
fired Big Bird!
And Twitter responded.
Big Bird peaked at 17,000
tweets per minute.
Yesterday, Mitt Romney said
that he loves Big Bird.
Which is even more awkward
since the question was, "Can
you explain your tax plan?"
I said to myself
to the screen,
"You'll be sorry."
You see what Big Bird
did to Romney's car
right after the debate?
Show what happened.
Look at that.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
That's the kiss
of death. (CHUCKLING)
Thank goodness
somebody's finally cracking
down on Big Bird.
You have to scratch your head
when the President
spends the last week
talking about saving Big Bird.
And I really believe
that it was a mistake,
that helped lead to
Governor Romney's defeat.
Big Bird, we can't. We can't.
We gotta go vote.
We'd like to know
how Mr. Spinney
feels about Mitt Romney
talking about Big Bird
on television the other night.
DEBRA: (ON SPEAKER) Oh...
There were many requests
we received from
every press outlet wanting
to talk to Big Bird.
'Cause Saturday Night Live,
being a show
that very much models
the comedy of Sesame Street,
felt like the right venue.
During the Presidential
debate Wednesday
night, Governor Mitt Romney,
said he would end
the subsidy to PBS
adding, "I like PBS,
I like Big Bird."
Here now to comment,
Big Bird!
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
They weren't sure that it was
going to be the real
Big Bird, but
they all knew from the voice.
The moment that
the audience realized
that that was
the real Big Bird.
Thank you for
coming Big Bird.
Well, thanks for
having me, Mr. Meyers.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
They went crazy.
They went (STAMMERING)
absolutely nuts.
Big Bird, everyone.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
(INAUDIBLE)
So...
So tall.
People have asked me,
"But don't you
want to retire?"
And I can't imagine
wanting to retire.
DAVIS: He's an artist.
I don't know many
artists who retire.
Painters want to
continue to paint.
Sculptors want to
continue to sculpt.
He said he wants
to do it for 50 years.
He wants to do it till
he's in his 80s.
You know, he is
not quietly going
off and retiring.
PRESENTER: The daytime Emmy
recognizes Caroll Spinney,
a gifted
and compassionate man,
with a special Lifetime
Achievement award
for extraordinary
contributions...
Thank you, everybody.
(IN BIG BIRD'S VOICE)
Thank you
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
He's afraid to stop. He's
happy doing it, you know?
I don't think he could stop.
Yup, he's stuck. (CHUCKLING)
CAROLL: You get to meet
so many good people.
I hear so many stories,
about what Sesame Street
has meant to people.
I'm really proud of that.
The last time I saw Caroll
was 30 years ago.
Sesame Street,
is doing a 30-year
retrospective
of Big Bird in China.
LISA: So,
Xiao Foo is going to
reunion with Big Bird.
DEBRA: Can't wait
to see her.
(INDISTINCT CONVERSATION)
My little girl.
(INAUDIBLE)
The love was just
pouring out of us. The tears
were pouring down our cheeks.
Debra and I were beyond
joy.
It was just like this,
uh, wonderful meeting
like you found your...
Your long lost child.
He said, "Oh,
"Big Bird always
loves Xiao Foo."
And I said "Xiao Foo
always loves Da niao."
LAURENT:
All these decades
of pure love,
that, of course, is the true
secret to Big Bird.
Just unconditional love.
HOST: Number One,
what is your name, please?
My name is Caroll Spinney.
HOST: Number Two.
My name is Caroll Spinney.
HOST: Number Three.
My name is Caroll Spinney.
Funny. I watch him
all the time
and I don't recognize him.
But here is
Caroll Spinney's story.
If he were performing
100 years ago,
he'd be the king
of vaudeville.
He is a master.
Everyone recognizes that.
You can't argue with that.
He is a master.
WOMAN: Number Three,
what were you before
you were Big Bird?
I was in a series called
Bozo The Clown.
JERRY NELSON:
He goes right to the heart
of the bird, you know.
There is something about
Caroll that has that...
Also that
child-like innocence.
How did you get that job?
Jim Henson saw me performing
at a puppet festival.
I mean, just look
at the legacy.
It's like, 43 years.
And Caroll has been
doing it from day one.
NORMAN STILES:
He is Big Bird.
There is no question
in my mind that
Big Bird is him
and he is Big Bird.
You'll look inside
and you'll see feathers.
He has made an extraordinary
worldwide icon with that bird.
And Number Two,
how many times do you
appear on Sesame Street?
On every show?
All but the three
in this last season.
MAN: Who doesn't know
who Big Bird is?
From my two-year-old niece
to my
eighty-something-year-old
grandmother, like,
and everywhere
in between, everyone
knows who he is.
I like being miserable.
That makes me happy.
MAN: It does now?
But I don't like being happy,
so that makes me miserable.
(MAN LAUGHING)
J. MILLIGAN:
There's this sort of Yinyang
thing going on with
Big Bird and Oscar
and that the bird certainly
comes from him,
from his soul,
from his childhood
and Oscar is part of him too.
HOST: And that does us in.
We must form an opinion
and we must decide.
Is it One?
Or is Two? Or is it Three?
LAURENT LINN:
Big Bird and Oscar
are two of the most
known and famous characters
on planet Earth.
Yet, Caroll...
People don't know who he is.
The votes are all in.
Will the real
Caroll Spinney
please stand up?
(PEOPLE APPLAUDING)
CAROLL: I saw a puppet show
when I was a little boy.
And I thought,
"That was great."
I thought that was
the greatest thing that
they could tell stories
with their little striped
puppets on their hands.
That little... Yeah.
MAN: That one? Okay.
Thank you.
I never got to Ireland.
MAN: Yeah. I was
looking for it.
I regret that.
I'm not traveling anymore,
you know.
CAROLL: Yeah.
JERRY: You travel for me.
Send me pictures.
Okay.
CAROLL: Not long after that,
I found a puppet for
five cents at a rummage sale.
And so I made a sign
that said,
"Puppet show, two cents."
Everybody went away smiling.
I can't imagine what I used
for a story or a show.
But I thought, "Wow,
I'm gonna be a puppeteer
when I grow up."
Oh.
Good morning, Lars.
How are you?
My mother was delighted
that I was interested
in puppets.
She was an artist.
And she encouraged my art.
She made a whole
Punch and Judy set for me.
And she built a puppet
theater with the help
of my brother.
She would get inspired
and write me a new story.
So, I ended up with twelve
different stories.
JUDY VALENTINE:
She was a little,
huggable lady.
She was fun.
So you know where Caroll
got some of that.
And she was so excited
about what he was doing.
CAROLL:
She didn't realize that
she was giving me my career.
She was a great mom.
My father didn't feel that
I was gonna make a living.
As being an artist,
I was going to starve
in a garret.
He did have a rather
bad temper.
And I seemed to know
how to trigger it.
I was only six
and I knocked a can of paint.
He went nuts.
I squirmed out of his arms,
he grabbed me by my leg
and he swung me around
and threw me
across the room.
He picks up the clothes rack
over the hot air register.
He brought it over his head
and he started swinging it
right at me.
Just then, my mother
managed to get between
me and the rack.
It gave her the worst bruises
I have ever seen in my life.
It wasn't the last argument
that I had with my dad.
He let me borrow his car.
He insisted that
he had half a tank.
He didn't.
He had just over
a quarter tank.
And he said that I had
cheated him.
It was such
an awful argument.
I thought that it'd be good
to go away.
That day I went off and
enlisted in the air force.
I count the four years
I had in the air force
as some of the great
years of my life.
I even had my own
television show.
And it was only eight years
after television had begun
in the U.S.
So, I was feeling pretty
good that I had broken
in TV that quickly.
When I got out
of the service,
I was now 23,
so I started going out
looking for jobs.
I went to Walt Disney
to get a job.
And I said
"What will be the pay?"
Fifty-six dollars a week.
And I walked out.
(CHUCKLES)
I tried to get back
into TV in Boston.
And I teamed up with
a lovely girl named
Judy Valentine.
JUDY: With one hour,
we had no script.
We just did it,
just the three of us.
CAROLL: They had double
the Nielsen rating
of the show
we were replacing,
so it seemed like
they'd wanna pick it up,
but they didn't.
JUDY: But it didn't happen,
except that
they moved us
to The Bozo Show.
But we were lucky
because we stayed together.
Woo-hoo-hoo!
FRANK AVRUCH:
We're talking in the '60s.
A low budget show.
We didn't have a script.
We'd all get together
at a production meeting
in the morning.
"Okay, what are we gonna
do today?"
CAROLL: It was so much fun
playing many different
characters on the show.
AVRUCH: He just has a knack
of creating characters
and making them come alive.
Billy Bill dogdern.
Got this big juicy pie.
Hey, how about saying,
"So long," boys and girls,
to Kooky Kangaroo?
AVRUCH: And just,
he's very creative.
He is a wonderful artist.
He created the animation
for the actual Bozo Show.
Hey, Butch.
What's up, Bozo?
JUDY: I know he thought
he had more to offer.
Hey, this is just
like Shakespeare.
It's so...
He was just too
talented to be
so stuck.
CAROLL: I loved working
with Frank Avruch
on The Bozo Show.
But I didn't feel
it was particularly important.
It was mind candy.
I wanted to do something
more important with puppets.
So I decided to go
to a puppet festival.
And it was a case of being
in the right place
at the right time.
So, first we'll have,
guess who, Jim...
(CHUCKLES)
(ALL LAUGHING)
Jim Henson's here.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Uh, I was just
looking in, uh...
I keep a little notebook
of what I did and
when, you know.
And so, it was in August
of 1969,
and there was a puppetry
festival in Salt Lake City.
And that was where
I first met Caroll.
CAROLL: I had use
of a beautiful Acme
animation stand.
Made a beautiful film
to be projected onto
a theater I built
with a rear
screen projection.
ANNOUNCER: In 30 seconds.
CAROLL:
Then, at the last
minute, I hear that
Jim Henson was in
the audience.
My name is Jim Henson
and I am a puppeteer.
And I am called a puppeteer
because I work with puppets.
I am working
the left hand
and the head.
And I am working
the right hand.
CAROLL: I had first seen
The Muppets in 1960
and said, "Now,
"that's puppets that really
speak to me."
My show was introduced and
I briefly explained this
was experimental theater.
The curtains open
and I look up
and to my horror,
I can't see the screen.
There's a big floodlight
has been put on.
I look up and I can see
this giant spot of light
which I had not put on.
And it was washing out
my screen so extremely,
I couldn't see anything
on the screen,
so I couldn't stay in sync.
There was no sense
in going on with it.
So, I walked between the
projector and my screen
and I started pantomiming
pulling my hair out.
Then, I suddenly
hear a voice.
"Hi, there."
And it was Jim Henson.
He said, "I liked
what you were trying to do."
And I thought,
"Gee, that's very neat."
JANE HENSON: (ON TAPE)
"And actually, the idea
that Jim first saw him
"handling a lot of mishaps
in his own show,
"actually, it was to his
advantage, because
"that's the kind
of quality that Jim
wanted in a Big Bird."
CAROLL: He had said,
"Why don't you come down
to New York
"and talk about The Muppets?"
And I just thought
he wanted to talk shop.
So he said it again.
I said,
"What do you mean?"
He said,
"Work for The Muppets."
Open up new worlds
on a street...
Hey, Rowlf.
Hmm?
Why don't you call
your show, Sesame Street?
You know, like,
"open sesame."
It kind of gives the
idea of a street
where neat stuff happens.
We want to emphasize
that the children's television
workshop is an experiment.
Research is woven into
the total fabric of the show.
There was no question
in my mind
that television could
teach little children.
The trick was to make it
entertaining.
It was the end of the '60s
when Sesame Street
came into being.
The times they were
a-changin'.
The world was waiting
for a change, I think.
And we were part of it.
Kermit, why, you are a genius.
(KISSING)
Yuck.
Sesame Street. I love it.
The kids will love it.
(SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY)
After he goes toes then
I went to hands.
After the hands went back.
CAROLL: First day
of taping came.
And I was going to be working
with Frank Oz and Jim Henson.
Stand by.
Tape is rolling.
Of course, I had great
tension over it.
Jim Henson was a true
genius in every way.
He and Frank had been
working together
for some years already.
And they
could tell each other's
thoughts practically.
Jim and I were very, very
aggressive performers.
You have to be kind of
aggressive and selfish to
have a main character.
He wasn't that kind of guy.
CAROLL: It was all good fun.
But I was worried about doing
good puppetry.
We were doing a song
where we're all singing,
"Ice cream, ice cream,
we all scream for ice cream."
CAROLL: My problem has always
been with the rhythm getting
into each song.
Well, I would miss the first
syllable every time.
And so I'm starting
to feel pretty bad
'cause I miss it.
The third time I could
just feel I didn't get it.
Jim looked over and saw
that there was a monitor
over there.
And he could go look
at it by himself
and not have to crane over
people's heads.
And he didn't see me
walk up and watch
just behind him.
And he just quietly says,
"Garbage."
And I said, "Oh, God."
I said, "I'm not good enough
to be a muppeteer.
"I'll resign
"and you can get somebody
who can do it right."
Jim was very, very gentle
and understanding.
He didn't yell at me.
He just showed
that he was a patient
and gentle, nice guy.
FRANK OZ: I remember
a feeling that I have
of Caroll that I feel
bad for him
that he was not
committing himself
to the characters enough
because he was kind of
in awe of Jim.
I think he didn't
fulfill his full talent
at that point.
CAROLL: At first, I didn't
have an awful lot to do.
Big Bird was barely
in the show.
He was just being introduced
and Oscar was too.
So, I did a lot
of right hand work.
I did Ernie's right hand.
Because, with puppets
like Ernie,
it takes two people
to do the puppet.
He didn't
fit in and he knew it.
CAROLL: I thought,
"I don't think I can stand
coming here anymore."
I didn't have enough money
to rent an apartment.
For a while, I was sleeping
on a foldout couch
up in Spanish Harlem.
There was still
trash in the streets,
and I'm stepping over trash.
Boston wasn't like that.
So, I had the problem
of what to do.
Silly doors.
MAN: That's Big Bird.
(CHILD CHATTERING)
CAROLL: I decided to quit.
I was going up the stairs
to Jim's office.
And Kermit Love was there,
who was the builder
of Big Bird.
He'd become a good friend.
He saw my grave-looking
face and he said,
"What are you doing?"
I said,
"I'm going up to quit."
He said,
"You'll never get another
opportunity like this again."
I said, "Yeah, but I can't
stand New York."
He said, "It will get better.
"Just give it another month."
Look, she's eight
feet tall.
No, she's not.
She's only four feet tall.
I'm holding her up,
Big Bird.
CAROLL: Big Bird, at first,
he was a very goofy guy.
Kind of a country yokel.
You're not a bird.
I'm a bird.
Birds are big.
CAROLL: And I said,
"You know something?
"I think that maybe,
he should be a kid.
"He just happens
to be a big kid."
The producers agreed.
Oh, hello.
MAN: Big Bird,
why are you doing that?
Just because.
CAROLL: The scripts suddenly
were all Big Bird and Oscar.
And they were terrific.
I couldn't even imagine
how I could even have
thought about leaving
such an opportunity.
And then I really
got into it.
The second year
I began to sail.
ANNOUNCER: All rehearsed,
all ready to go to see
somebody special.
One of our biggest
yellow feathered friends.
Who is it?
ALL: Big Bird.
ANNOUNCER: You got it.
BOB McGRATH:
I think it was most
apparent to us
the first time we really got
out and performed for kids.
Every time we mentioned
Big Bird,
the place erupted.
It was like a mini Woodstock.
(PEOPLE APPLAUDING)
One of the stars
of Sesame Street, Big Bird.
Caroll has become,
and has created a,
I think, a superstar,
but everybody
in the world knows
who Big Bird is.
You are writing for a
very naive, every-kid.
Here I am.
(SINGING)
There's nothing
to compare him to.
He has managed to learn
how to speak directly
to the hearts
of probably anyone
from two to five, six,
seven-year-olds
and to grownups,
as a matter of fact.
I think it would be quite
unbearable
if we did not know that Caroll
is also Oscar the Grouch.
(ALL LAUGHING)
Oscar, in his own way,
was a breakout character.
I think if the show
was being created today,
you
probably wouldn't get a
character like Oscar approved.
(CHUCKLES)
Listen, it's fun
to be a grouch.
NORMAN: What he really
is about is testing
the limits of
different perspectives
and how we accept
somebody with a totally,
totally different perspective.
He is not evil,
he is not cruel.
He's just really grouchy.
Gosh, Oscar,
you know, deep down,
you're really a nice person.
I am not.
When we wrote Oscar
in the beginning,
Oscar is a totally
negative character.
He is the dark side
of everybody.
He is what children
are constantly told
they must not do.
CAROLL: I've had a running
battle with Jon Stone,
a fabulous director,
and the original
head writer.
He didn't like that I gave
Oscar a heart of gold.
He fights very hard against
my concept of Oscar.
You're a sweetheart.
No, I'm not. I'm terrible.
...do think that why
we care so much about
Big Bird and Oscar too,
is that we know inside
those creatures
beats the heart
of a great human being.
My first wife didn't care
for me being in show
business at all.
Didn't care for me
being an artist either.
She never looked at my work.
We were married
for eleven and a half years.
He was married to somebody
who didn't appreciate Caroll,
who didn't appreciate
his work.
CAROLL:
I had a divorce in 1971.
My son was only a year
old when it happened.
One day, I was waiting
for a scene to begin.
Then, this woman came over
and started saying
things of praise
about Big Bird.
I had tears streaming
down my face,
but I'm inside the bird,
so she had no idea
how absolutely miserable
I was at that moment.
And so Big Bird said,
"Thank you very much."
But inside, I was dying.
EMILIO DELGADO:
It was very sad to me because
Caroll was, you know,
very distraught
and we just felt for him.
CAROLL: When I'd go home,
it was the worst time.
One morning I got up
and it was a fog
and terrible storm
in my head
of how unhappy I was.
Suicide came strongly
in my mind.
And that it might
be a refuge.
And I opened the window
and looked down
the nine stories.
I closed the window quickly
and I walked away from it
and said,
"It isn't that bad.
"You will find another day
that is better."
I think no matter
how black a day is,
if you can just hold on,
the sun will eventually
come out for you.
It was really good
when we were doing
Sesame Street
'cause it kept me busy.
Mickey?
Yeah.
I've heard of a mouse
of the same name.
OSCAR: I hate birthdays.
The trick's on me.
You're such an angel.
(KISSING)
Yuck, yuck.
WOMAN: I know we like that...
CAROLL:
They're all good people
and good friends.
(PEOPLE CHEERING)
Hey, I had to drive
from New Jersey.
All the people involved...
It was like a big family.
BOB:
Pick your best friend,
pick your brother
and just go have
a wonderful time doing
extraordinary things
that are gonna be shown
all over the world.
CAROLL: They helped me
a lot all through
the pain of my divorce.
I was single for a while
and I was walking through
headquarters
and there was a girl typing.
And I said,
"Oh, my gosh, I'm in love."
One look at her
and she was the person
I needed to have in my life.
So I said, "Well, I was
wondering if you'd like to
go out to dinner some night."
She said, "Oh, thank you
for asking, I'd love to,
"but I have other
obligations."
And I said,
"Well, naturally
she'd be taken."
Near Christmas,
they had
a wonderful party for
Sesame Street workers.
I saw another pretty girl.
She had longer hair.
Same story.
She was obligated otherwise.
Almost six months go by
and we're doing a special.
DEBRA SPINNEY:
I went to that.
Brought my niece,
little three-year-old Megan,
'cause she wanted
to meet Luis.
The minute that I held
Megan on my hip
to introduce her to Luis,
Caroll popped up.
CAROLL: And I said,
"Would you wanna
go out to dinner?"
I said, "Yes."
And I remember when
we crossed the street
at Central Park West,
it was very crowded
and he took my hand.
And honestly, at that moment
when he held my hand,
it was very protective
and really lovely.
I knew I would be with him
for the rest of my life.
CAROLL:
So we were sitting there.
She raised a glass and said,
"Here's to your persistence."
And I said,
"What do you mean?"
"Well, you know,
remember, you asked me out
when I was typing,
"then you asked me out
at the Christmas party
"and then again, of course,
at the recording studio."
I said, "You were all
those girls?" (CHUCKLES)
I had no idea that I was
asking out the same girl.
Thirteen days later,
we were walking down Broadway
and it suddenly
occurred to me,
if she is not in my life
for the rest of my life,
I don't know
what I would do.
So, I suddenly
whirled her around.
I said,
"You will marry me,
won't you?"
And I was like,
(STAMMERING) "Yes."
I was so nervous,
but I said yes.
JESSICA:
They are so in love
that some people
actually tell me
that they are just faking
because it can't be real.
They can't get
enough of each other.
And that's inspiring to me.
He brought her home
and I said, "Mom?" "Yep."
And that was it.
She was mom.
OZ: What Debbie,
I think, did is actually
appreciate his work.
She appreciated
and supported
all the things that he loved.
If you are around people
that you love and care about,
that part of that
goes into your art.
LAURENT:
She holds it all together
and it frees him to
be the free spirit that he is.
(CAROLL SPEAKING)
(JANE HENSON ON TAPE)
"When Debbie came
into the picture,
"Caroll was so much
more solid.
"And it was so obvious
that Caroll just worked
"so much better when Debbie
was with him
"and I just felt like
"if it was put in place
in the beginning
"that she had to
always be allowed
to travel with him,
"that it would be
all so much better."
BIG BIRD: Hey, everybody.
This is the Great Wall
of China.
DEBRA: We love to travel.
And Big Bird and Oscar
take us around the world.
Ist das Deutschland?
CAROLL: I never realized
the puppet shows
I was doing as a kid
would open doors to me
all over the world.
It is so wonderful
to be back here in Vancouver.
Such nice weather.
(PEOPLE LAUGHING)
Never mind, you can
have this for gratis.
Yeah, but can I have it
for free too?
(CHUCKLES)
That, too.
And of course, meeting people
is really great too.
It's got a driver, right?
And lots of seats for people
to sit on, right?
Yeah, you got it, shorty.
We haven't met
Paul McCartney yet,
though.
That's still the bucket list.
(LAUGHING)
So, just putting it
out there.
CAROLL: One time,
Deb and I...
The phone rang and by gosh,
it was Jim.
And he said,
"I've been awfully busy.
Wanna go to a movie?"
Amongst the puppeteers,
amongst the Muppet family,
there is a real closeness.
And Caroll often
isn't part of that.
I just think that he is
so happy with Debbie
and their world.
CAROLL: Gradually,
it got more and more,
so we would spend
more time with him.
He just acted like a friend,
not like a boss.
I think my dad
found Caroll delightful.
Caroll is delightful.
They had a real, genuine
friendship and would
spend time together.
I don't think Caroll ever
had that kind of friendship
with some of the others.
CAROLL: He was just
unlike anyone else.
To do nothing with Jim
was probably the most fun.
You could see him
just kind of come
down from it all,
'cause, you know,
he's such a genius,
he's always thinking.
Did you wish to
see me about something?
CAROLL: The day he hired me,
he hadn't had a vacation
in three years
and he didn't care.
He said,
"I'd much rather work
then go on a vacation."
I'm sort of the opposite.
Super nice to have you here.
But unfortunately,
we have to keep going
and you get to go home.
So...
CAROLL: I never lost
my awe for the man.
He was awesome.
KERMIT: Caroll is leaving.
JIM: Yes.
The rest of us are working,
but Caroll is leaving,
but that's okay.
Bye, Caroll.
CAROLL: Goodbye.
Bye, Caroll.
ALL: Bye, Caroll.
Bye, Caroll. See you.
Nice working with you.
ALL: Bye.
CAROLL: We were driving
home from New York,
and I put the radio on.
And they said,
"It's a Hollywood minute.
"It's Bob Hope.
What's up, Bob?"
He says, "I'm going to
Beijing, Red China,
"and I'm gonna walk
arm in arm with
my big buddy, Big Bird."
I looked at Deb and said,
"Oh, my God."
Bob Hope, He's asked me
to go perform with him.
Guess where. Peking, China.
Really? You've wanted to go.
CAROLL: Yes.
DEBRA: Going to China
with Bob Hope was
probably one of
the highlights
of our whole lives.
We're the first television
show to be allowed in once
it was opened up.
It looked like 1930s.
CAROLL:
It was an unknown
at the time.
We hadn't been exactly
cordial in either direction
with them.
Our translator was a spy.
He actually had to make
reports on everything we did.
Turned out they are awfully
pleasant people to visit.
DEBRA: When Big Bird
walked down the street,
many, many people thought
he was a real big bird.
It was just magical.
'Cause we had
such a good time in China
with Bob Hope,
when we came back,
we were determined
to get Big Bird back there.
Selfishly, so we could
get back there.
We came up with the idea that
maybe he could go
on a quest and look
for the phoenix,
'cause it's a bird.
Seemed to make sense.
We went to Jon Stone,
and we said,
"This is something
we really got to do
and, you know,
"give you this idea
and I hope you can
run with it."
Which he did.
It was difficult.
It was a difficult shoot.
We were way under-staffed.
There were people
like Frank Oz carrying cases
onto boats and across canals
because there was no one
else to do it.
CAROLL: We had to get
on a boat.
They had a monsoon rain.
And the Li river
was churning.
And I am in the bird.
If I fell in, we'd have
to abandon the bird.
It'd be the end
of the production.
That was terrifying work.
VICTOR: Caroll was amazing.
He was in essentially every
shot in this thing.
But he is such a trooper
that he just did
what he had to do.
Xiao Foo, we found it.
The monkey with the clue.
We found it, Xiao Foo.
Oh, gee.
What's the matter?
CAROLL: Jon Stone
was the writer-director.
And he introduced the little
girl into the story.
DEBRA: Xiao Foo is the most
adorable thing.
She was kind of the little
girl who goes on the quest
with Big Bird.
I communicate with Caroll
in a spiritual way.
Because I don't know
about English.
But I can kind of feel
what he wanted me to do.
She turned out
to be a remarkable child.
She was perfect for it.
The three of us were like
this little group, you know.
We gave them nicknames.
So, Big Bird is Da niao.
Means Big Bird.
And Deb is Xiao niao.
Means small bird.
I still remember it
all the time.
Nobody ever gave me
that much love.
DEBRA:
When we had to leave China,
it was... It was horrendous.
LISA: I cried.
I cried all the time.
And I love them so much.
And they suddenly
just disappeared.
CAROLL: It was very,
very disappointing when
we got to the airport
and found that
we couldn't find her.
It was terrible because
we hadn't said goodbye.
LISA: Even for a small kid,
I had still gotten
the feeling, how harsh it was.
DEBRA: One point, I think
they kind of allowed her
to come out of this back room
and then she came
into our arms
and we hugged
and we kissed and we cried
and she cried.
The whole place was crying.
And then they separated us
and we had to go through.
And we
waved goodbye and we hadn't
seen her
again or heard from her.
CAROLL:
We wrote letters to her.
Never heard any answers.
And the government
was nervous about us
getting close to each other,
I think.
MICHAEL DAVIS: Jon Stone
and Caroll Spinney had
a fascinating relationship
and when they were filming
Big Bird in China,
it was a very difficult shoot.
Jon was really the key
person on Sesame Street.
He was really, I'd say,
the father of Sesame Street.
He was my hero,
I must say that.
He gave me many
opportunities that I would not
have gotten without him.
He was brilliant as a writer,
as a director, as a producer,
there was nothing that Jon
could not have excelled at.
He was able to pick up
a script in the morning
and then shoot the thing
as if it was nothing.
And utterly brilliant
in his creativity.
But very difficult.
Nobody would deny that.
(STONE SPEAKING)
(CAROLL SPEAKING)
DAVIS: He wasn't an angel.
He did not suffer
fools gladly.
And he had his moments
with Caroll Spinney.
It seemed bigger to us
because we didn't really
have much of that.
We were a family.
CAROLL: When I began,
we had a wonderful
relationship.
Somehow, I don't
know what happened.
It kind of soured.
DEBRA: For example, in China,
at the end of the day,
Jon would go around,
pat everybody on the back,
"Great job, great job."
And he walked right by Caroll.
I never could quite
understand why there was
a little bit of tension
and friction at times there.
But there was.
CAROLL: One morning,
I was poised
with Oscar in hand,
hunched behind
the trash can.
Oscar pops up,
and I blew a line.
It's not unusual.
It's not like it was a flaw.
It's just...
Everybody does that.
CAROLL: He goes on
the big speaker
system and saying,
"Stop. You're clowning
around, making mistakes."
That was the only mistake
I had made.
So, I stood up and said,
"I can't work like this."
It was so...
I was in shock.
Jon was yelling at him
when I went into the booth
and, you know,
reprimanded Jon.
I mean,
I could have lost my job,
I don't know, but
Luis is very protective
of Big Bird, you know.
JON: So,
camera two has got this.
Camera three picks up
the bird going back.
Arnie will have
to be cleared.
So, camera two picks up
Madeline, carries her over...
They challenged each other
to be even better.
That dynamic actually
helped the performance
an enormous amount.
I really feel that he is
the best director ever
for Big Bird was him.
But I often felt when
I worked with him that I...
I was back in school,
because I didn't have
a great time going
to high school.
DEBRA:
I know that his childhood
was so frustrating for him
'cause he... His personality
is such that, I think,
he really just wants
to be liked,
which reminds me of Big Bird,
'cause that's very, very much
what I think of Big Bird.
CAROLL: You don't get
treated great when
you're the littlest guy
in a class with big ears.
And having the name
Caroll didn't help.
Some would say,
"Oh, Caroll, you playing
with your dolls?"
'Cause I had puppets
since I was eight years old.
DEBRA: When Caroll
talks about anything
that's emotional,
even if it happened
sixty years ago,
it's as if it's happening
right now.
You know, I think he's one
of those people
that, that, that feeling
doesn't go away.
CAROLL: When I was
in the tenth grade,
I remember getting
badly bullied
and a story told around
that I was...
Well, the word gay
wasn't used then.
And the story
just progressed
into this awful tale.
And I went through
the worst misery of my life.
And I was so hurt.
I was so angry.
I looked out the window
with tears burning in my eyes,
I said, "Someday,
"those bastards are gonna
brag they knew me."
JON: And cut. Okay...
And then, if we have time...
So, you're over here,
closed up on Snuff.
MAN: All righty.
JON: And two is
a close-up on Bird.
Do the next two
seconds that way and
then we'll do the dance.
MAN: Whatever
your heart desires
CAROLL:
So, we start over here.
JON: Let's do
one more for safety.
JON: And...
MAN: Ready, Bird?
CAROLL: Yeah.
JON: Five...
CAROLL: Big Bird is
actually low-tech.
You have to do it
by putting your hand
up into the head.
My right hand operates
the mouth of the puppet.
CAROLL:
With my little finger,
I could push a lever up
and down and it raises
his eyebrows.
This is just a couple
of pounds
and like, while you
are talking to somebody,
hold it above your head.
Also, do it blindfolded
and wearing like,
a down coat.
CAROLL: The left hand
is strictly just in
the left wing.
And there is a fishing
wire that goes up through
the neck of Big Bird
down to the right wing
and operates
as a counter balance.
SCHUPBACH:
There's the Big Bird legs,
which Caroll
wears like pants.
Couture pair of giant
orange pants.
Inside, it is completely
disorienting.
Because, everything
inside glows yellow.
But you have a monitor
on your chest
that shows you
what people see at home.
CAROLL: We call the device
I wear an Electronic Bra.
LAURENT: The puppeteers
all read the script while
they're puppeteering.
CAROLL: I figured out a way
to take my scripts inside.
I call it "script origami."
So, Caroll inside Big Bird
has the script right here
with his little glasses
reading the lines while
he's looking at the monitor
while he's doing
all these other things.
The confusing thing about
looking at a monitor
is you at home see
Big Bird walk off
to your right,
I have to actually
walk to my left.
WOMAN: Sorry.
Stop, there's a cable.
Come to your left.
Here I am.
MILLIGAN: So, like,
with his right hand,
he is worried about
eye line and lip sync.
With his left hand,
he's just trying to
keep the thing alive,
you know, with his
feet, he's trying not to
trip over a monitor
or you know, Carmen,
and meanwhile,
he's supposed to be
looking at this little monitor
which is his only window
out to the world.
Taped around the monitor
is his script.
It is really quite
an amazing dance
and coordinated effort
to pull that thing off.
SCHUPBACH:
And you just totally
take it for granted
that he is doing it
and it seems like an easy gig.
Um, it's not.
(DEBRA SPEAKING)
I think I saved his life
at least once.
Being Big Bird can be
hazardous to your health.
When you do this
over and over,
there is a tendon here,
a muscle
that heats up and you can
feel it getting hotter.
All of a sudden,
it just dropped.
It just turned off,
like you had turned off
a button for that arm.
MATT VOGEL: I've had,
you know, injuries
in my neck and back.
We've even had to stop
production so I could
lay down on the floor.
I thank goodness,
Caroll wasn't there that day.
I would have been
very embarrassed.
Wait a minute.
Look at this.
The horse's head
is completely missing.
Whee! (LAUGHING)
Oh, that is
wonderful, Bird.
Uh-oh.
JON: Action.
OSCAR: Hey, whoa,
I don't know what's
going on out there.
But I like what's
going on in here.
Wow, I feel like
a milkshake!
LAURENT:
What a wrangler does is
really working
with the puppeteers
extremely closely.
Good, how are you, Big Bird?
Hello.
It's so nice to see you.
We're sort of like the NASCAR
pit team, but for The Muppets.
Constant maintenance
because there are 4,000
feathers on Big Bird.
LARA MacLEAN:
That's a big part of it,
and then,
you know, I feel like,
I am always watching
for Caroll's safety.
God forbid,
you're on a live event.
Oh, those are the worst.
CAROLL: One time,
we were doing a remote show.
DR. LORETTA LONG:
He had one of the first
wireless mics.
We didn't know
that you were supposed
to clear a channel.
And all of a sudden,
we were picking up
the trucker CB
like, coming out of the bird.
LORETTA:
Girlfriend was hooking
up for a date.
"Hey, Big Daddy.
18 wheeler.
"Your mama's waiting for you
at Exit 18 in a Winnebago."
(LAUGHING)
So, we said, "Wait a minute,
it's gonna be an
X-rated show."
I sort of panicked.
LORETTA: Mr. Fix-it McGrath
gets a wired mic
and shoves it through
the suit to Caroll's mouth.
Without really thinking
what it looked like,
I kind of just shoved it
right through his neck.
And of course, I am standing
in front of 14,000 children.
Bob just stabbed
Big Bird in the heart.
(LAUGHS)
We just...
We left the stage.
We just walked off.
One time when we were
on the road,
this is years and years ago,
and we were doing
a live show.
CAROLL: We left Big Bird
alone in a storeroom.
The ROTC students were
supposed to watch him
while we went out for lunch.
Big mistake.
CAROLL: I was sitting
on the lawn
eating a sandwich.
And all of a sudden
I see all these ROTC students
and they all got a yellow
feather in their hat.
We came back,
his whole quarter was bare.
They decided that
it'd be nice to
have some bird
feather souvenirs,
then they plucked a whole
chunk out of him.
It was like a desecration.
CAROLL: Somebody tried
to take one of his eyes.
It was broken
and hanging off.
And he was lying in the dirt.
And I saw that,
I burst into tears.
It was like seeing my child
raped and thrown on
the ground and destroyed.
EMILIO:
He was crying like somebody
had done that to him.
That's when I knew that
Big Bird and Caroll were one.
They were one and the same.
Big Bird.
I kind of have a
a great opportunity
which is to be Big Bird.
And I think it's
both a privilege
and kind of exciting to do,
because I kind of get
lost within the thing.
Well, I just drew pictures
of all of my grown-up
friends on Sesame Street.
And I am gonna
give it to you.
I'm gonna be
an artist when I grow up.
SONIA MANZANO:
When we shot the
Goodbye, Mr. Hooper show,
we were all
heartbroken that Will Lee,
our beloved cast member
who played Mr. Hooper
passed away.
Caroll, through Big Bird,
had to go through
the feelings
that a child would go through
if he lost someone.
Ta-da.
WOMAN: Oh, look at that.
It's nice.
ALL: So beautiful.
That's nice. So great.
JERRY: When we do
a character,
much of that character is us.
Where is he?
I wanna give it to him.
I have always loved Big Bird
because he is complicated.
So, he has a lot
of emotional qualities
that a lot of
the Muppets don't have.
Big Bird, don't you
remember we told you.
Mr. Hooper died.
He's dead.
Oh, yeah. I remember.
Well, I'll give it to him
when he comes back.
MATT: He can really
key into those emotional
moments and make them
feel very real.
DAVIS: There is something
about Carol.
Not many people have it.
He can
go back in time almost
and recreate the feelings
and the thoughts,
the questions and the fears
of a youngster.
Oh, he's gotta come back.
Who's gonna take care
of the store?
And who's gonna make
my bird seed milkshakes
and tell me stories?
We can all be very happy
that we had a chance
to be with him.
And to know him.
And to love him a lot
when he was here.
When he steps in the bird,
he is the bird,
when he steps out,
he is Caroll.
And there is very, very
little difference between
those two characters
in my mind.
And Caroll is brilliant
at making Big Bird
real.
You know, I am gonna
miss you. Mr. Looper.
That's Hooper,
Big Bird, Hooper.
Right.
(PEOPLE SINGING CHEERFULLY)
LAURENT: In Oscar,
a different part of Caroll
comes out in Oscar.
WOMAN: Is everything...
Doesn't look like
much to me.
Eh, let's go home.
TV HOST: Birds really
like to watch
other birds make love.
(PEOPLE GIGGLING)
Hey, listen, I'm from
a kids' show, you know.
(PEOPLE LAUGHING)
CAROLL: Oscar is pretty much
the same other than the fact
he is no longer orange.
Oh, come on now, Oscar.
Actually, if I took a bath,
I'd still be orange.
TV HOST: Really?
But this is moss.
At first, they had no idea
how to play this character
when Henson proposed
it back in '69
and I was rather scared.
I had just joined Muppets.
But a taxi cab driver said,
"Where to, Mac?"
It was on the way
to the rehearsal
and it was just in time.
So, I kept saying,
"What a great voice."
Where to, Mac? Where to, Mac?
Where to, Mac?
I said, "Go over
to the trash can
and knock on it
"and Oscar will come up."
So, Jim walks over,
then, clang, clang.
And I pop it open.
"Get away from my trash can!"
He said, "That'll do fine."
It really allows Caroll
to fully be himself
in both characters.
Well, anyway, you've seen
the best part of this movie.
So, sit back, relax,
and have a rotten time.
OZ: We work as
an ensemble so much.
You know, a character
does not grow in a vacuum.
A character grows
because of playing
with the other character.
You got to play
catch with somebody.
Thank you! (LAUGHING)
The puppeteers are gonna sit
in a row next to each other.
The puppets are here,
their faces are exposed.
When they're working,
they can take cues
off each other.
Caroll, the way he has
to work is just different
than the way all the other
puppeteers have to work.
The characters that Jim
had designed
and was thinking about
required a solo puppeteer
to just pull the whole
performance from himself.
MATT: It's a very surreal
experience to be inside
and you can hear
everyone outside.
And it's almost...
You feel a little alone.
And the trash can works
in a similar way
because he's in there,
so Oscar is up there
and he's in this metal can.
It's just a different way
of working and a different
experience.
I'm not coming out at all
until I'm back on the plane
to Sesame Street.
LAURENT: Big Bird,
he lives by himself
in his nest.
He's his own creature
and there's no one like him.
Oscar the same way.
There are other grouches
but Oscar lives by himself
in his trash can,
very happy to live by himself
in his trash can.
MILLIGAN: He's drawing
on a slightly different
skill-set or just
the performance
has to come from
a slightly different place
than the other guys.
LAURENT:
He's not a loner at all.
But there's a part of him,
I think, that...
He does enjoy doing
his own thing.
And kind of marching
to his own drummer.
And it does come out
with Big Bird and Oscar.
It sort of echoes
my childhood.
When I was a child,
I guess I wasn't...
I didn't play
on any teams or anything,
so everything I did
was rather solo.
And so
fortunately, both characters
that Jim gave me to play
are solo characters.
In other words, he selected
characters that worked out
just right for what I can do.
OZ: This is his strength.
His strength is,
maybe not ensemble,
because these two
characters are stars.
And Big Bird, of course,
became iconic.
DAVIS: Without Big Bird,
Sesame Street would not have
been what it became.
If you think that
John Travolta
and Saturday Night Fever
have taken the country
by storm,
wait till you
hear the album
that's being cut on the other
side of this door.
MAN: Robin, what is a BeeGee
doing on Sesame Street?
ROBIN: Well, Sesame Street
Fever is the answer.
DAVIS: You couldn't walk
down a street in America
without seeing a Big Bird
toy in the stroller.
MAN: Today, ladies
and gentlemen,
I proclaim this
Big Bird day in Hollywood.
(PEOPLE CHEERING)
I'm sure that Big Bird
is the most well-known
children's character
in the world.
And it's really neat, and
I think it's really due to
Caroll and his talent...
MAN: Bravo, yeah.
You're the biggest
chicken I've ever seen.
Oh, I'm not a chicken
actually.
I'm a bird on the run.
CAROLL: They decided
it was time to make
a feature film.
MARTIN BAKER: It was
the first time they'd made
a feature and it was clearly
all about Caroll
and Big Bird
and it was great fun
to work on.
He left his nest in
Ocean View, Illinois
last night
and is reportedly heading
east for a place called
(MISPRONOUNCING)
Sesame Street.
BIG BIRD: La la la la
Wa wa wa wa
(SNORING)
CAROLL: At the height
of Big Bird's popularity,
I got a wonderful letter
while I was on set.
And it was from NASA.
It said that they
were worried that
children of America
weren't particularly
interested in
NASA's program.
But Big Bird was so popular,
they thought that
if he went up in the shuttle
that everybody would
watch a lot more.
So, would I be willing
to orbit the earth?
He really kind of
looked at me and said,
"Should I say yes?"
Because it's scary.
You know, it could be
the last thing he ever does.
But on the other hand,
who is ever gonna
get that chance?
So, of course, we both
agreed that you
have to take it.
It's something
you have to do.
And I said,
"I'm willing to do it."
About a month later,
we heard from them that
there was no room to put
Big Bird on the ship.
We had to cancel.
We were filming
Sesame Street the day
that it went up.
I stopped production,
said, "We gotta
watch the take-off."
So, they switched
all our monitors
to the broadcast.
And we could see
the ship take off.
ANCHOR: This is a special
report from Channel 4 News.
CAROLL: They decided
to have a teacher
go in my place.
And so, the children
of America would be
watching a teacher.
MAN ON RADIO 1: And lift-off.
Lift-off...
MAN ON RADIO 2:
Challenger go
in throttle up.
MAN:
The shuttle mission
will launch...
My God, there's been
an explosion.
We must assume
that the crew is not alive.
This is unheralded
in the history of
the space program.
This is WRN news
with Jessica Spinney.
Today, we are going to
interview Caroll Spinney.
Hello.
Nice to meet you.
It wasn't your traditional
family upbringing, you know.
I didn't see him
for breakfast,
lunch and dinner.
Today, we are going to ask
him about his career
playing Sesame Street.
He'd be gone traveling a lot.
BENJAMIN: I only saw him
on the weekends,
so, thought about him
all week, you know.
Finally get here and...
And hang out with Dad.
We generally saw
our children at least
every other week.
Once a while,
it had to be three weeks
because of a job
or something.
BENJAMIN: During the week,
I could watch Sesame Street
twice a day
and there's Dad, you know?
And we miss him,
turn on the TV
and, you know,
you close your eyes
and Big Bird sounds
just like Dad.
Oh, Snuffy.
Where are you?
But when they came
for the weekend,
it was nothing
but us and them.
No, but no, I had more
I wanted to say.
You wanna try...
But then, Sesame Street...
Well, no, my hobbies...
What did I say? Help, help.
I wanted to...
I can't remember
a bad time with him.
JESSICA:
He was hysterical. He was...
We did a lot of stuff
together.
He's an amazing person.
He could do anything,
you know?
MAN: High flying.
BENJAMIN: He was always fun,
always funny,
always doing something
for you.
I think he had a very
strict upbringing,
and he vowed he wasn't
gonna be like that.
Whenever he talked
about his father,
it was always about the past,
because it was really
traumatic.
I had such a great
relationship with my dad,
that I couldn't imagine
not loving your dad.
And so we talked about it
a lot and I said,
"That's not the way
it is anymore.
"Your father isn't that man."
And so I think Caroll
started to let it go.
It was a crystal clear,
gorgeous day in Los Angeles,
which almost never happens.
I've never seen
it happen before.
DEBRA:
And once he did that, then
he learned to love him.
Again.
CAROLL: We'll see you soon.
Love you.
CAROLL:
And when he was getting
very old, in his late 80s,
I said,
"You are a wonderful dad,
"You've always
been a wonderful dad to me."
He says, "Son, I think
you have a very poor memory."
And I think that
was a real apology, you know?
DEBRA: It was
7:30, about, in the morning
and Caroll answered the phone.
And at the time, Caroll's
father was very ill
and we were kind
of expecting, maybe,
that that call
was gonna come.
And I see him say,
"He died?"
And he just looked at me
and he said, "It's Jim."
We just
fell to the floor. We just...
It was, it was horrible.
The whole world
just turned upside down.
It was just so sad.
He was only 53.
And the finest guy.
I don't revisit the memorial
'cause it's just
too difficult.
It was such a swirl
of complex emotions,
especially loss.
It's not that easy
being green
Having to spend the day
the color of the leaves
when I think it could
be nicer
being red or yellow
or gold or something
much more colorful
like that
It's not easy
being green
It seems you blend in
with so many other
ordinary things
and people tend
to pass you over
'cause you are not
standing out like
flashy sparkles
on the water
or stars in the sky
But green is the color
of spring
And green can be cool
and friendly-like
And green can be big
like a mountain
or tall as a tree
or big as a sea
When green is all
there is to be
It could make you
wonder why
But why wonder,
why wonder
I am green
and it will do fine
It's beautiful
And I think it's
what I want to be
Thank you, Kermit.
OZ: It was extraordinarily
moving, you know,
'cause that character
is so sweet.
It, you know, tore people up.
You know, it was just
coming from that kind
of sweetness.
Inside, I was crying,
but I didn't
break down in the song.
I broke down later.
OZ: The question after
many, many months was,
you know, okay, now it's time
to figure out who is gonna
do Kermit.
Well, to begin with,
uh, do the take.
CAROLL: We had a wonderful
puppeteer in-house
that Debra and I
happened to discover
named Steve Whitmire.
And he was selected
to do Kermit.
Hi.
CHERYL: It is difficult
for a new performer
to take on a role
that is so established
and is so much a part
of one person's personality.
They always seemed to start
out as kind of an impression.
You know, it's the performer
trying to get the voice right.
I think it takes
a deep understanding
of the motivations
of the character
to be able to carry it on.
With Caroll and Big Bird,
it's that
sense of wonder and awe,
that child-like sense
of wonder and awe
that Caroll has.
(DEBRA LAUGHING)
It was about 1996
and they were looking for
someone who would
come in to
double for
Caroll as Big Bird.
CAROLL: It was
sort of intimidating
to think that someone
else is playing Big Bird.
I know I don't own
him or anything,
but I own his soul,
I feel.
CHERYL: He'd been
seeing a number of
different performers,
quite a few
and getting a little
bit dismayed of,
"Oh, how is this
really gonna work?"
And then
he met Matt Vogel.
Hi, everybody. Hi.
Uh, everybody?
He was so excited
and he came away and he said,
(GASPS) "Matt Vogel.
"You know, Vogel means
bird in German."
You were born for this job.
That bird.
(CHUCKLES)
So he became
the person
who will certainly be
the inheritor of the bird
when I can't
do it any longer.
But he is
a very patient man,
because that was at least
fifteen years ago.
MATT: I mean,
my job really is this,
if Caroll doesn't
wanna do something,
then, I am
the guy that does it for him.
So, if he does not want
to do the green screen,
I am more
than happy to do that for him.
(MEN SPEAKING)
MATT: I see Caroll
as a mentor, a teacher...
He's a friend of mine.
I'm very protective
of the character
because I'm very
protective of Caroll.
But I know
that my Big Bird is
different
than Caroll's Big Bird.
No matter what I do,
I can't
not make it be somewhat
more me than him.
The important thing
is that these characters,
that they
live on past the performer.
LARA: Big Bird
will live on forever.
What an amazing thing
that Caroll knows now
that Big Bird will live on.
Big Bird, he's my child,
and someday he'll be adopted.
I've noticed
something lately.
It all started about
eight years ago,
so some people on set
when they were handing
me something,
"This is the thing
you wanted, sir."
I realized that kind
of made me a little feel
separate from them.
Rectangular dollar bill.
MAN: Four sides.
Four sides.
MAN: Four corners.
Four corners.
When four of us were
doing 130 shows in
the early years,
to be only involved
in a handful of shows,
you know, I think of it
more as almost like a hobby.
EMILIO: I miss those days
in the early years
when we had actually
gone out on
the road with everybody,
you know, because,
we all got to know
each other.
We were getting to know each
other personally, you know.
Luis,
everything make me
think of cookies.
Now, that's
what I miss, that camaraderie.
You know, everybody has
grown up, gotten older.
VICTOR: My family grew up,
we all grew up,
some of them are passed on,
some of them have left and,
you know, I was kind of the...
The last of
maybe three people that were
there from the very beginning.
(CREW CHATTERING)
It's still a terrific show.
But it's a very, very
different kind of show.
Eventually,
the writing just shifted
to the younger characters.
Became a show
for two-year olds
and three-year olds.
And Big Bird isn't
necessarily a character
that two-year-olds
and three-year-olds
could get right away.
Chase Elmo, Big Bird,
chase Elmo.
(PANTING) Wait, wait,
wait, I'm...
Oh, whew, let's take
a break, Elmo.
DAVIS:
Elmo, on the other hand,
is so understandable
to a two-year-old
or a three-year-old,
they just get it.
Everybody,
Snuffy, Big Bird,
come see what Elmo did.
What have you done, Elmo?
Elmo just works.
Kids respond,
people respond to Elmo.
Elmo wrote his own song.
BIG BIRD: Really?
What's it called?
Elmo's song.
Oh, clever title.
Did it supplant Big Bird?
In a way, it did.
And I'm
sure that was maybe
a little tough for Caroll,
because, you know,
he had been
king of the road
for a long, long time.
DAVIS:
It's just so hard to sustain
a level of popularity
for any kind of character.
Somebody else
or something else comes along.
CAROLL: He turned out
to be in everything.
Didn't take me
too long to realize
that he was working
far more than I'd want to.
DAVIS: Caroll was
a little weary already
of the demands on his time
and what those appearances
take out of you.
DEBRA: He enjoys it
just as much.
But he also enjoys
not doing it.
He enjoys doing nothing
or drawing or, you know,
having picnics and all
that kind of stuff.
MAN: And wind,
and that's a wrap.
Thank you.
(CREW CHEERING)
DEBRA: Hello.
DAVIS: He has a life
beyond the studio,
beyond the character.
DEBRA: He's still drawing.
Couple of hours actually.
(CHUCKLES)
CAROLL: At first,
as a child, I'd say,
"I'm gonna be a puppeteer
when I grow up.
"That's it, I'm gonna
be an artist when I grow up."
So, I decided to try
to do both.
It's almost like he's
not putting it there,
it's almost like he's
uncovering it somehow.
I... I can't describe it.
CAROLL: Mostly now,
I draw Big Bird and Oscar.
Put him into events
that he never gets
to do on the show.
That's what I do
when I draw him.
DEBRA: And what is this one?
CAROLL: Twelve gorillas
in the closet.
(DEBRA LAUGHING)
Norman, we dedicate
this to you.
MILLIGAN: If Jim didn't tap
him to be Big Bird,
his life would be the same.
He's absolutely
a unique figure who
has a tremendous
sense of who he is
and what he wants
and what makes him happy.
And I really don't think
he needed Big Bird to do that.
He's, in a way,
blessedly normal.
Here's our chef.
Yeah.
Look at this food.
It looks like...
DAVIS: He loves his wife,
he loves his home.
He's worked hard
to have this balance.
Good for him for making
that life choice.
DEBRA:
Here we are at suite 2316.
Beautiful leis.
DEBRA: We document
almost everything.
Breathtaking views.
I think it's like
you capture memories
and if you have that,
you can always go back.
If one of us isn't here,
you still get to be together
and live it again.
CAROLL: Somebody said,
"Are you scared of death
"'cause it's closer
when you're this age?"
Not at all.
But I can't think
of many things
other than losing Debbie.
I mean, that's my...
I can't imagine life
without this
wonderful person in my life.
DEBRA:
We have this thing that
we kind of say to each other
that if one of us goes first,
we will meet
at the raspberries
and what that means is
Caroll described
it from a dream.
It's this big bush
that looks like
a raspberry bush but it's
not a raspberry bush.
But he calls it
"the raspberries," so
whenever we talk about,
you know,
if you go first
or I go first,
"Don't worry, I'll meet you
at the raspberries,"
and well, that's where
we're gonna meet.
MATT:
A lot of what I've
gained from him,
I've gained by watching him.
Watching him in life
and watching him as Big Bird.
LAURENT: One incredible
thing that Caroll
has said to me over the years
and in certain key parts
of my life,
"Never step back.
Always step forward."
It didn't mean
financially or
go up the ladder
of success.
But for yourself,
you have this life
and every day is precious.
When you
confront a brick wall,
find a way to keep
going forward.
(INDISTINCT STUDIO CHATTER)
CAROLL: I can't get over
how the years have gone by.
Forty years is a long time.
(MEN SPEAKING)
Both characters
are pretty demanding
Big Bird especially
is a physically
demanding character.
And even Oscar.
Only because
I know the man,
did I see when
he was taken out of the
costume that he was tired.
He was really pushing himself
more than he used to have to.
Everything is going wrong.
Gordon?
Gordon, are you okay?
We heard a crash!
Yes, yes I'm fine.
So there's
four of us left.
Five...
Five of us.
Over the years,
it is harder for him to...
Would be for anybody
who is 79 years old,
to hold your hand
in the air that long.
Your muscles change.
Big Bird is not
standing up as straight
and tall as he did
when Caroll was in his 30's.
But of course you
gain experience of life.
So, it's a balance.
Maybe Big Bird's posture
isn't what it once was,
but the benefits
of Big Bird is that he
is a much richer character.
If Caroll's age has affected
Big Bird, I haven't
seen it yet.
And I think he'd be man
enough to stand up and say,
"I need somebody to do
Big Bird for me," because
I think he believes
in the integrity
of the character.
Looks like an invitation.
Oh, an invitation
to what?
You are invited to join
the Good Bird's Club.
The Good Bird's Club?
That sounds like a great club!
The shows that I just watched
from the last season,
the writers found
Big Bird again
in a really cool way.
Joining the Good Bird's Club,
is not that simple.
It... It's not?
No... In fact,
you do not look like much
of a good bird to me.
CAROLL: I'd be willing to
do more shows with
Big Bird in it than I do now.
It's getting to be a
very small amount.
But yet, when they
really need him
and the chips are down,
he's a great example
of what they want to
say. And the writers
often will deal with
serious subjects,
in a great way, through him.
You know what buddy?
Who cares what they think.
They are just bullying you.
They are treating you as if
you are not good enough.
The question is
"What do you think?"
Well...
I kinda think
I like the way I was.
I think Big Bird still is
the icon of the show.
When people
think of Sesame Street,
they may think
of Elmo in a...
(STAMMERING)
In a popular way, but
in a very grounded
way, I think, Big Bird is
still the star of the show.
Obviously from the last
political
convention, we all learned
that he is still on the map.
I'm sorry, Jim. I am going to
stop the subsidy to PBS,
I'm going to stop
other things. I like PBS,
I love Big Bird.
There's been a lot of big talk
about a certain Big Bird.
(LAUGHING)
(SQUEALING)
I really hope,
no children are watching that.
DAVIS: Does this man not
understand how
Big Bird resides right
here in your heart?
Mother (BLEEP)
fired Big Bird!
And Twitter responded.
Big Bird peaked at 17,000
tweets per minute.
Yesterday, Mitt Romney said
that he loves Big Bird.
Which is even more awkward
since the question was, "Can
you explain your tax plan?"
I said to myself
to the screen,
"You'll be sorry."
You see what Big Bird
did to Romney's car
right after the debate?
Show what happened.
Look at that.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
That's the kiss
of death. (CHUCKLING)
Thank goodness
somebody's finally cracking
down on Big Bird.
You have to scratch your head
when the President
spends the last week
talking about saving Big Bird.
And I really believe
that it was a mistake,
that helped lead to
Governor Romney's defeat.
Big Bird, we can't. We can't.
We gotta go vote.
We'd like to know
how Mr. Spinney
feels about Mitt Romney
talking about Big Bird
on television the other night.
DEBRA: (ON SPEAKER) Oh...
There were many requests
we received from
every press outlet wanting
to talk to Big Bird.
'Cause Saturday Night Live,
being a show
that very much models
the comedy of Sesame Street,
felt like the right venue.
During the Presidential
debate Wednesday
night, Governor Mitt Romney,
said he would end
the subsidy to PBS
adding, "I like PBS,
I like Big Bird."
Here now to comment,
Big Bird!
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
They weren't sure that it was
going to be the real
Big Bird, but
they all knew from the voice.
The moment that
the audience realized
that that was
the real Big Bird.
Thank you for
coming Big Bird.
Well, thanks for
having me, Mr. Meyers.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
They went crazy.
They went (STAMMERING)
absolutely nuts.
Big Bird, everyone.
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
(INAUDIBLE)
So...
So tall.
People have asked me,
"But don't you
want to retire?"
And I can't imagine
wanting to retire.
DAVIS: He's an artist.
I don't know many
artists who retire.
Painters want to
continue to paint.
Sculptors want to
continue to sculpt.
He said he wants
to do it for 50 years.
He wants to do it till
he's in his 80s.
You know, he is
not quietly going
off and retiring.
PRESENTER: The daytime Emmy
recognizes Caroll Spinney,
a gifted
and compassionate man,
with a special Lifetime
Achievement award
for extraordinary
contributions...
Thank you, everybody.
(IN BIG BIRD'S VOICE)
Thank you
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
He's afraid to stop. He's
happy doing it, you know?
I don't think he could stop.
Yup, he's stuck. (CHUCKLING)
CAROLL: You get to meet
so many good people.
I hear so many stories,
about what Sesame Street
has meant to people.
I'm really proud of that.
The last time I saw Caroll
was 30 years ago.
Sesame Street,
is doing a 30-year
retrospective
of Big Bird in China.
LISA: So,
Xiao Foo is going to
reunion with Big Bird.
DEBRA: Can't wait
to see her.
(INDISTINCT CONVERSATION)
My little girl.
(INAUDIBLE)
The love was just
pouring out of us. The tears
were pouring down our cheeks.
Debra and I were beyond
joy.
It was just like this,
uh, wonderful meeting
like you found your...
Your long lost child.
He said, "Oh,
"Big Bird always
loves Xiao Foo."
And I said "Xiao Foo
always loves Da niao."
LAURENT:
All these decades
of pure love,
that, of course, is the true
secret to Big Bird.
Just unconditional love.