Louis, Martin & Michael (2003) Movie Script
This programme
contains strong language.
I've always been fascinated
by the pop star Michael Jackson.
I've made approaches to see if he'd
be interested in collaborating on
a documentary. I never heard back.
But in the summer of 2002, I
decided to make a start without him,
hoping he'd want to get involved.
It was worth the risk, for a chance
to learn about this eccentric star.
It was June and Michael Jackson
was in England for a short visit.
He stayed in London and was ferried
around by Uri Geller to the sights.
What are you hoping to see? I don't
know, I haven't been in yet!
Uri also took Michael to Devon for
the day to visit his football club,
Exeter City.
When I called Michael
and I said to him,
"Michael, will you come to Exeter
City football club?"
He said, "Will there be children
from hospitals?" I said "Yes."
His first words were,
"See it as done."
Michael Jackson!
Hello to you wonderful people
of Exeter.
CHEERING
I wasn't in Exeter that day, I was
in London checking into his hotel
in an effort to get close to him.
I'd made several calls to Uri Geller
to see if he'd arrange a meeting.
At first, he seemed keen
to let us film some of the trip.
Now Michael was in the country, I
was having trouble getting through.
GELLER: 'Hi, we're on the phone
or out of range.
'Please leave your name and number
and we'll call you back.
'Alternatively you can text message
us on the same number. Bye.'
Well, what do you think?
Does he usually answer?
Yeah. I'll try back in a bit.
Fans were gathered outside
Michael's hotel.
Knowing that he's in that building,
you can just feel it.
So much atmosphere -
everyone from all over the world,
different nationalities,
giving back some of that love
he gives us in his music.
Louis? Yeah. See, I told you it was.
Mark Lester.
I recognised the name. Mark Lester
was Oliver Twist in the 1968 film.
Are you staying in the hotel? No.
No, we've just been in. To see
Michael? Yeah. You're joking!
I've known Michael for years.
Really? Yes. How about that.
Lovely chap. How did you meet him?
Well, we share a common interest,
well, a common thing in
that we were both child stars.
We've sort of known each other
since we were kids really.
How amazing. We've
had the most wonderful evening.
What were you doing? Watching some
sort of video, Beadle's or...
Yes, he likes watching Lisa Riley.
Lisa Riley? Yes.
The You've Been Framed? Yes.
He loved that programme.
Said he was rolling
on the floor laughing.
What do you do now, Mark? Are you
still an actor? I'm an osteopath.
I still hadn't heard back from Uri
so I wrote Michael a letter.
What are you writing? Dear Michael,
I'm making a documentary
for BBC Television about
you and what you mean...
..to your fans.
I would...love...to...speak to you.
Smiley face?
Yeah. Do you think so?
Well, yeah. Seems like the kind
of guy who'd appreciate it.
Am I plugged in? Can you hear me?
OK.
'Michael was staying on the same
floor as me. A security guard was
outside his room all night.'
Got a message. Go to security
and they'll take it from there.
OK, thanks very much. Thanks a lot.
I couldn't be sure Michael would
ever receive my letter or read it
or if he'd appreciate it,
let alone respond to it.
I tried to remain positive.
CROWD CHANTS
There was a second reason why
Michael Jackson was in the UK.
A demonstration had been organised
against Michael's label - Sony.
Sales of Invincible
were disappointing. He blamed
Sony for lack of promotion.
Fans had come to lend support.
It seems odd to protest against a
record label for not promoting it.
It's not just about that.
It's about destroying music.
It's about art in general.
By not promoting the album,
they don't let people
hear the music.
It's like business against art.
That is brilliant. Michael's coming.
He's coming here? He's coming.
Are you lying? Wicked!
Are you serious?
Don't leave, please don't leave, he
wants you here. Please don't leave.
Please stay.
LOUD SCREAMING
God, he is on there.
He's actually on there!
It's quite exciting!
CROWD SHOUTS AND SCREAMS
EVERYONE: Sony sucks! Sony sucks!
Sony sucks! Sony sucks! Sony sucks!
PEOPLE CONTINUE TO SCREAM
'It was my first encounter
with Michael.
'Even I hadn't been immune
to the excitement.
'The number of fans wasn't huge
but the devotion was undeniable.'
Are you all right?
Michael flew back to America. I'd
had no word from the Jackson camp
and what's worse,
I'd heard a troubling rumour.
Martin Bashir had been seen
going for a meeting with Michael.
Would this have implications
for my documentary?
Without Michael, the next best
thing might be meeting his friends.
Many have been child stars,
former child stars and children.
We arranged an interview with
Terry George, who'd been friends
with Michael as a teenager.
We got an e-mail
saying he'd pulled out.
Strangely, the e-mail was also sent
to Uri Geller. Time to meet Uri.
Hello! Hello, Uri, how are you
doing?
Come in.
You are kind of an unofficial
spokesperson for...
People who want to speak to Michael,
they come to you, don't they?
They come to see me because
it's known that we are friends.
Michael's been here,
hasn't he? Yes.
Many times? I don't want to comment
on that... Why not?
It's no-one's business
how many times he's been here.
I can tell you there was one
occasion... So not that many?
No, not that many. Really?
How many times did he come
to England overall? Not many.
There's a picture of Michael
over here.
May I pick that up? Absolutely.
Yeah, this was an amazing event
when I became the joint chairman
of Exeter City Football Club,
I rang Michael
and David Blaine and asked them if
they'd become honorary directors.
To come all the way from Los Angeles
and give that unbelievable speech
where you were,
you attended... Where? Exeter City
Football Club. No.
You weren't there?
No, we weren't allowed to. I
thought you were in the background.
No, we wanted to be in the stadium
but we weren't allowed.
I thought you were there. We called
to interview you in the run-up
to the event, do you remember?
I... You said no. I said to you no?
Do you want to know why I said no?
With you,
there's always that suspicion
that you'll turn this into
something to ridicule Michael.
I think he's been hurt so much
by the press, by television,
that he's very reluctant to open up
and inviting a crew
into his own home.
Although I have arranged
an interview with him for ITV.
Because a certain journalist in ITV,
I believed that he had credibility
and was honest in what he was
saying.
I'm not saying you're not honest.
Mm.
Is it the Martin Bashir interview?
Mm-hm. So...
They've started interviewing
Michael. That's a fantastic scoop
for ITV.
Not a lot of camera crew is going
to Neverland. Have they been there?
I think so.
I contacted you in early June? Mm.
About hoping to meet Michael. Yeah.
And, um, maybe being part of the
Exeter City football event. Yes.
And, um, at that time, not only did
you not help me,
you helped Martin Bashir get
an interview with Michael Jackson.
I'm sorry!
Please forgive me.
Forgive me if I was wrong.
We all make mistakes. I could've
been wrong. The good news is...
You're... ..We're still here.
Exactly. If you wanna fix it up now,
or tomorrow or next week that
would be brilliant. Tell you what.
I will try. I will ask Michael
if he'll be interviewed by you.
But again, having said that,
while you prepared
for this documentary
you approached a few people who
had negative material about Michael.
That gets to me.
How...what...who...? I'm not, I
won't mention names.
But you were trying to extract
negativity from people about
Michael.
I think I know
what you're talking about. OK.
Do you mean Terry George? I won't
mention names. Why? Cos I just
don't wanna mention names. Mm-hm?
I know you got an e-mail from Terry.
I think you know that I know
cos the e-mail was CC'd to you.
We did intend to interview Terry
and hoped to do it on Monday.
Terry, having been in contact with
you, has withdrawn his interview.
I don't wanna mention names...
I don't expect you to.
I have so you don't have to.
I won't mention anything.
But I did get e-mails from different
sources you have approached
that led me to believe the flavour
of this programme will be anti.
It'll be derogatory towards Michael.
This is Michael in 2002.
This is an approved photograph.
I think Michael looks great here.
It could be, even, a lookalike.
I'm not doing a stunt.
This is Michael Jackson.
And the reason I'm pulling it out
is just because it's easy to talk
about Michael Jackson.
He's not here in person, so it's
nice to have something to refer to
to remind us
who we're talking about...
These are exactly the lines
that make your programme
the, the suspicious programme
that I'm talking about. Why?
Because of your, your -
the way you react
and the sort of, er, snakey manner
you bring up things.
This was a very good example.
I don't follow you. We're not
in kindergarten here, are we, Louis?
I honestly don't know what you mean.
Do you consider me a four-year-old?
Do you mean that I have photos? No.
I refer to the manner of
questioning.
"I'm holding a picture just to
remind you. Michael is not here."
That's unnecessary.
This is what makes your programme,
um, in my opinion, not the right one
to interview Michael Jackson.
Do you believe that I have no idea
what you're talking about? Good.
It means you believe in yourself.
It was getting tense so I asked Uri
about his wedding the year before.
Why did you think Michael would
be a good best man? He's a friend.
He was in England.
I thought it'd be a wonderful angle.
Best men conventionally give
a speech where they reveal secrets
about the groom, don't they?
Not in Jewish weddings. What do they
do in Jewish weddings? Lift you up.
Do they? On a chair and dance to
klezmer. They don't do the speech?
They don't do, "I'll never forget
the time Uri..." What?
"..bent that spoon."
Are you gonna help us, Uri?
We'll see. What does that mean?
To me that means no. What? To me...
No. I promised you.
Well, say yes, then. I gave you
my word I'd bring up your name.
Bringing it up isn't - you don't
just bring it... You might bring
it up and go, "Avoid this man." No.
I'd say...I'll, I'll tell Michael
you're doing a major documentary.
And, erm... And don't go near it.
He will say, "Who is Louis?"
I'll say, "He's a nice young man.
"He does
all these interesting programmes."
Then I'll tell him... Ha-ha!
"But I advise you not to do it."
Big mistake. Big mistake.
'It seemed pretty clear
that Uri was not on our side.
'He was on ITV's side.
'To learn more about Michael, I'd
have to go where he was, Las Vegas.'
MUSIC: Human Nature
by Miles Davis
Michael was on holiday, but was
seen shopping at the Luxor Hotel,
apparently um-ing and ah-ing
over buying a golden sarcophagus.
He'd also been seen at the
Guinness World Of Records Museum.
He looked like he had lipstick on -
well, he did really.
To me, he looked like, I guess
he was very white. Like a ghost.
No colour.
He'd apparently visited his friends,
Siegfried and Roy's magic show.
DRAMATIC MUSIC
Progress was slow.
But, we had one lead. An ultra fan
and impersonator called E Casanova.
He was performing at a local club.
Every now and then in life, you run
across something you can't explain.
Tonight is your night to witness
something you can't explain.
The world's greatest tribute artist.
The best in the planet.
Ladies and gentlemen, please put
your hands together and welcome
the legendary, the unforgettable
E Casanova! Give it up!
APPLAUSE
DRAMATIC MUSIC CONTINUES
INTRODUCTION TO BILLIE JEAN
# She was more like a beauty queen
# From a movie scene
# Said I don't mind
but do you think I am the one
# Who can dance on the floor
in the round
# She said I am the one
# Ooh!
Kid's not my son
# No, no
# She says I am the one
# You know Billie Jean... #
E Casanova's manager
took me backstage.
How you doing? Majestik Magnificent.
Say again? Majestik Magnificent.
I'm Louis. Louis Theroux.
I'm the door for E Casanova, number
one tribute artist in the world.
Endorsed by the family
and Michael Jackson. Whoa!
Majestik-with-a-K Magnificent
claimed he knew the Jackson family.
Michael's mum and dad, Katherine
and Joe and all his siblings.
Randy, Jermaine. I can call 'em all!
They're my friends. LaToya, you
there? Pick up, I need to talk to
you.
Hello, hello, hello, hello.
Pick up, pick up.
Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.
Hello, hello, hello, hello. Pick up.
Give me a call if you get this.
If he was telling the truth,
Majestik Magnificent was
the Las Vegas answer to Uri Geller.
Maybe we can get something going
with LaToya?
I don't know. She's finicky.
If LaToya do your show, forget
about doing something with Michael.
What about if Katherine did it?
That's different. Michael loves her.
Joseph? I know he's back now,
you're lucky, he's back but he was
in China, for almost a month.
Do you think that could possibly
happen? I don't know.
I know what y'all saying, you come
over here in America, to interview
one of the Jacksons or Michael,
er...
You all didn't all go through
the proper procedures
and you kinda rushed this thing.
Interviewing the Jacksons takes
preparation. We're preparing now.
How? Talking to you.
You tell us what we need to do
and then we'll do it. I can't tell
anything - I haven't talked to them.
Firstly,
if I decided I was going to do this,
after finding out they wanted to do
it, it's not impossible.
Left or right? Left. Right. Right.
Make up your mind, left or right?
Right.
When it comes to directions,
don't trust him.
Why y'all staying at La Quinta?
Where y'all staying at?
Y'all budget. The BBC,
they want NBC or CBS on it.
Y'all ain't stayin'
at Caesars, MGM, Mirage?
La Quinta, it's all right.
It's all right but...
I'm pullin' into La Quinta, nobody
know in Britain who La Quinta...
If you came out and said
"We're at the Mirage."
That's impressive.
Didn't answer that one.
Can you tell me where Michael's
staying? Impossible, you know why?
Not authorised.
And you the press, it'll be like...
If I talk to Michael and he go,
"Yes, tell him where I'm stayin',"
then I could tell you.
But I can't do that.
That'd be like...
That'd be betrayal,
can't betray him on...with anyone.
Where is he staying? Can't tell ya.
Totally impossible.
Let me tell ya a secret -
I live in the family's home
for nine and a half years,
is because
the whole family trusts me.
The reason I was offered 200,000
by Hard Copy, Inside Edition
and turned it down and went to
Katherine and Joseph and told them.
I was offered 1.5 million to do
a book for being with them 22 years,
living in their house, and turned
it down because Katherine Jackson
is a second mother to me.
As long as she's alive,
I'll never do anything to hurt her.
See, you can't buy integrity,
you can't buy dignity.
Your character and word
is more important than money.
The press have a hard time
to understand that.
Remember I said, "You're a class
act, you're a great professional"?
See, you're ruining that now.
I was only teasing, cos we know
where he's staying.
Why you asking me? I wanted to see
what you'd say. I'm...I'm a realist,
I don't lie, I don't bullshit,
I'm a realist.
I'm not an idealist.
Majestik told us he would put
some calls into his Jackson friends
and get back to us.
Time passed. I practised moonwalking
and listened to E Casanova's songs,
written as a tribute to Michael
called The Laughter In We.
RECORDING: # Because of Michael,
I see, the laughter in we
# Sometimes
we'll sing a sad, sad song
# When I see in the tears
# Has brought the laughter in here
# Of the world we all live on
# Because of Michael, I see
# The laughter in we... #
A few days later, Majestik called.
Get this.
This is how I got
Michael Jackson's attention.
I was Muhammad Ali's magician.
He introduced me to Michael Jackson
because I do magic,
Michael loved magic.
And this
is how I got to know Michael.
That was good, man.
That's nothing.
(Watch!) You hold on to it.
Michael came and sit right next
to me at the Pantages Theatre.
And Muhammad Ali told him
I was his personal magician.
Is that true? Yes.
Who has a personal magician?!
It's a weird thing to have.
You're not familiar with Ali.
Muhammad Ali been doing magic
for 20 years. Muhammad Ali? Yes.
He told Michael Jackson I did magic
and Michael said "Show me." "Yeah."
Showed him some magic and he said,
"Come over to my house tomorrow
and show me."
Mm-hm. He gave me a number to call
and I called and went over.
How did it go from there to you
living with Michael.
I didn't live with him.
I live in a different... I kind of
like live with the Jackson family.
You lived at Havenhurst?
The Jackson family home. Yes.
Joseph let me move in first before
Katherine. Into the main house
or an outbuilding? No.
I was in the main house.
Don't try to say I was a servant.
Don't try to say I was a caretaker,
no. In the main house.
Reporters trying to switch that.
No, what's that
got to do with being a servant,
being in an outbuilding?
That's for maids - I'm a magician.
What's that got to do with...
I'm not saying you were in the loo.
I was in the main house,
the main house.
I took Joe Jackson out to dinner
yesterday to Tickle Me, Tuesday,
a comedy show...
Tickle Me, Tuesday...
At the Aladdin Hotel, correct.
And...we stayed out till midnight
and I told him about...
er...the BBC, you all.
And wanting interviews
and what he thought about it
and he said he'll think about it.
If the terms and everything is met,
yes. What if some...
Are you all right? Sorry?
Are you OK?
Cut the camera.
You can't keep doing that.
'It all went a little strange.
'He suddenly seemed anxious about
making a deal on behalf of Joe.'
Until the terms be met and they
haven't. What are the terms?
I ain't got nothing to do with that.
You're a fuckin' idiot sometimes.
Why do you say I'm a fucking idiot?
Cos everybody knows what terms
and conditions mean,
when you're filmin' Joe Jackson.
I'm just clarifying.
Terms and conditions means,
in case you don't know...
That makes me a fucking idiot?
You should know,
you're a professional.
Several phone calls later,
part of the terms were agreed.
Namely the fee, 5,000 in cash for
Joe, and a 500 bonus for Majestik.
It wasn't Michael but it might
get me closer to Michael,
so I thought it was worth a shot.
The agreement was that we'd only
hand over the cash if Joe turned up.
It wasn't clear what 5,000 would
get us. There was one more meeting
with Majestik.
So we're meeting him at the IHop
in the parking lot.
It gets more and more like
doing a drug deal. It does.
Know what I mean? I do.
You wanna take a left?
Here? Yep.
Good enough? Yeah.
We still had no hard evidence that
Majestik could make this happen,
or even that he knew
the Jacksons at all.
Is he here? Yep.
He-hey!
Phew!
CAR DOORS SHU Good morning. How you doing this
morning? Good afternoon.
It's morning for me. Long night.
What were you up to last night?
This and that.
We'll meet Mr Jackson tomorrow
at 11.00pm at the Golden Nugget.
We're going to look at a couple of
his acts. 11 seems a little late.
No. No.
Is it any way it could be earlier?
What? The meeting. No.
No, you gettin'...absolutely not.
I said two hour, Mr Jackson, it
supposed to be an hour and a half.
Because the terms that was met was
pathetic, you're lucky to get that.
This is really beneath him.
I got to tell him 'bout
the camera because...
he's not going to understand this.
You're starting off bad
with that little home camera!
It looks like a toy camera, man!
It looks like something you go to
Wal-Mart to buy and walk around
with!
It's broadcast quality, though.
Tuck your shirt inside.
Tuck the shirt in. That'll be fine.
Look, uh...
Look like a professional journalist!
There ain't nothing wrong
with what you have on.
It's just not the kind of people
they're used to interviewing them.
Don't mess up the interview
tomorrow.
I hardballed him! We are so fucked!
That was all right. We're fucked!
No, we're not. We're fucked!
That was good.
We're gonna get shafted up the...
We're gonna get shafted.
No, we're not.
We're gonna get shafted.
No, we're not.
Why do you say that?
If he does turn up, it'll be 2am
with a band he forces us
to take shots of and gives us
two minutes of interview.
I think it sounds all right, man.
He was a lot more relaxed today.
Because he thinks it's in the bag.
We're in the bag.
The bag is sealed, with us in it.
You know? We just...
We just jump.
We just jump and if we get fucked,
we get fucked.
I think we're gonna get fucked.
Well, that's negative thinking.
Why've you got that thing
pointed at me?
Oh! That's heavy!
'Friday night at the Golden Nugget.
'In an effort to think positive,
I booked a room for the interview.'
How's that? Better?
'I'd been reading about Joe.
'It had been his idea
to put the Jackson Five together,
when Michael was six.
'Joe had been their manager.
'The boys said he was strict
to the point of brutal.'
I don't look silly. Majestik
told me I should. Is that all right?
I'm just gonna say we're making
a documentary about Michael
and who he is
and what makes him tick.
I think that's all right.
The only...iffy question
is...how far to go along
the sort of eccentric line.
And also about
Joe's being an abusive father
is a little bit dicey.
We waited and we waited.
Oh! That's him! I think I see him.
Hello, there.
Nice to see you, Majestik.
How do you do? Louis Theroux,
BBC Television. Pleased to meet you.
Thank you
for sparing some time for us.
How do you do?
He works with Mr Jackson.
This is Will, my director.
Don't be deceived by the tiny,
little camera. We are professional.
I'm checking this camera out.
It's broadcast quality. OK.
There's nothing to worry about.
Majestik and Will went into another
room to sort out the money.
Then the interview could start.
Joe? Can I call you Joe? Yes.
I don't want to be overfamiliar.
And I'm Louis. Louis? Louis.
OK, Louis.
What sets Michael apart
from his brothers and sisters?
What are you speaking of?
PHONE RINGS
You're gonna edit this, right?
Well, you know. It's...
Life in a busy...
Mr Jackson? Sure.
Who's calling, please?
Amir? It's Amir.
Would you like to speak to him?
'Majestik had said Joe
wanted to push a couple of the acts
he was managing.
'And sure enough, a tribute band
called The Front Page duly arrived.
'Although I was keen to talk to Joe
alone, I didn't have a choice.'
They're a family,
like the original Jacksons.
They love each other.
That's how it comes.
KNOCK AT DOOR
I'll get it.
I think I'll have to sign for it.
Oh!
Let 'em come on in. Come on in? Yes.
'And then Krystal arrived,
'a singer also managed by Joe,
with her mother, Cynthia.'
Louis Theroux. Nice to meet you.
Cynthia, nice to meet you.
'By the time
I'd finished interviewing
Krystal and The Front Page,
'I only had five minutes
to talk to Joe.
'I was starting to panic and the
panic was leading to confusion.'
I want to put something to you.
It seems that,
I don't know Michael that way
but he's so much in the public eye,
he has very little left for himself.
Michael.
I'm talking about Michael now.
He has very little left for himself.
I don't just mean
in terms of privacy.
It must be hard for him, having
always been in the public eye...
What is the question?
What's the question?
That's what's...
I'm trying to freestyle!
Sorry! Sorry!
You get in front, man. OK. OK.
Oh! Sorry! There we go. Sorry!
OK. That's cool.
Um... Where were we?
Do you have any advice for me
in my journey towards Michael?
Tell him that you had an interview
with me, cos he'll know it anyway.
He keeps up with everything.
He'll know we spoke to you? Oh, yes.
Will that help
our chances of seeing him?
Yes, this'll help.
Take care. All right.
See you later. Thank you.
All the questions for Joe
were still tucked away in my pocket.
The 5,000 was tucked in Joe's.
Before flying home,
I thought I'd try one long shot.
A contact had given me
the home address of Debbie Rowe,
Michael's second ex-wife
and mother of his two children.
'You need to leave the property.
You will be arrested.'
OK. Can I drop off a letter?
'Leave the property.
You will be arrested.'
OK. I'm just dropping off
a letter for you. Thank you.
I guess it's the right house.
# Willkommen, bienvenue
# Welcome... #
Berlin. January, 2003.
Michael was in town
to collect an award.
Only hours earlier,
Michael, encouraged by his fans,
had taken the decision
to dangle a baby out of his window.
To be honest,
we arrived late and missed that.
Martin Bashir was inside the hotel,
inside Michael's room.
You can't blame... I don't want
to be fucking pious about it,
but you can't blame him for...
It's not sour grapes.
It's just totally bitter.
There's something brilliant
we're missing over there.
All the lights are going off.
Where are we? We're on our way.
CROWD CHEERS
Look at that! People are going nuts!
Do you want to hop out?
'As we pulled up outside his hotel,
'Michael seemed to spot
the light on our camera
and cut short a sing-along
he'd been having.'
CROWD SINGS
CROWD:
# There's a choice we're makin'
# We're savin' our own lives... #
THEY SHOUT IN GERMAN
You are freaks, you are!
He saw you and he left.
He pointed at you. He pointed at
your car. Fuck the press. Go away.
CROWD: # .. a brighter day,
just you and me. #
The fans we'd most upset started
taking pictures of Will and I.
We learnt later this was for
a German Michael Jackson fan site.
For Michael's fans, it was another
chance for a jamboree in his honour.
I recognised Danny
from Hertfordshire.
Why are you here, Danny?
Very dedicated, aren't you? Yeah.
I was in New York last July.
Why are you here? Because...
you know, it's um....
it's...it's...it's a way to...for
us to give some of that love back
and to show our support,
express our support for Michael.
But you think he's a normal
human being? Absolutely.
This guy in London seemed to see
Michael as a religious figure.
I'm not...I'm not seeing him
as Jesus, or anything.
I see him as an incredibly gifted
human being who, maybe, was put here
for a reason
to inspire people through his own...
And to help heal the world through
his...his inspirational message.
He inspires me, you know?
To just hold on and be positive...
and, er...and be faithful
and believe.
It was minus six degrees,
but many of the fans stayed
outside Michael's hotel all night.
Some huddled,
others moonwalked to keep warm.
Oh, man.
The next day, Michael's
baby dangling was big news.
Michael Jackson has admitted he made
a terrible mistake dangling his baby
out of the window of a Berlin hotel.
Speaking for Michael was Uri Geller.
They almost forced him to...
with love, with passion - "Michael,
Michael, Michael, show us the baby!"
It was a decision, a split-second
decision, a bad one. A mistake.
But the fans didn't seem
too bothered.
THEY CHANT: ..wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful.
You're wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful.
You're wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful...
HORN TOOTS
THEY CHEER
GIRL: I love you, Michael!
It was the night of the Bambis,
where Michael was to receive
the Artist Of The Millennium Award.
To the children of Germany...
TRANSLATOR TRANSLATES INTO GERMAN
MAN: Michael! Michael!
Back at the hotel, with Michael
due to leave in the morning,
I was running out of options.
Is there any chance of a photo?
No.
OK. If I promise you that and it
doesn't come true, I'm a bad guy.
We'll do what we can. We always try.
If he doesn't get mobbed,
he has more time to see more people.
When they start closing in,
we gotta get him out. Yeah.
We will try, I promise.
Diana, what were you saying? Huh?
What were you saying to him? I was
saying that not all fans maul him.
Why did they talk about him being
mobbed? Is he being mobbed? Yeah.
You seem a little emotional. What's
the matter? Nothing. What is it?
What is it? What's the matter?
What is it?
SHE SOBS
It's always the ones that mob him
that get closest!
And the ones that stand back
and respect him don't get a look.
Ah... It does my nut in.
It had been another frustrating
couple of days.
But back in England, a breakthrough.
Michael's friend Terry George
agreed to an interview
in his house near Leeds.
Terry had been friends with Michael
in the early '80s.
With a cassette recorder his parents
bought him, Terry would interview
celebrities staying in Leeds.
I knocked on the door of the hotel
room, and Michael answered the door.
There was no security
stopping me, really.
I said, "Hi, I'm Terry. Can I do an
interview?" He was quite taken
aback.
He invited me into his room
with his brother Randy Jackson
and I interviewed both him
and his brother.
This is the look I had when I met
Michael Jackson. I was very scruffy.
Not very fashionable at all.
Michael said to me, "That's the way
I like to dress." I said, "Scruffy?"
He said, "Casual - like you."
The autographs of the brothers.
Randy, Tito, that's Jackie...
Marlon, Michael.
That's one of the few years
when Michael's fully grown
but when he hadn't had
any plastic surgery.
Yeah. That's exactly as he looked.
Really? He looked exactly like that,
with the Afro hair and...
the wide nose, and so on.
But he was fantastic,
got on well with him.
Um...we swapped addresses
and telephone numbers
and he rang me
the day after he'd left Leeds.
Other celebrities hadn't given me
phone numbers. Michael did, freely.
But we did get on well at the time.
It felt like I'd known him
a long, long time.
He was very comfortable to be with,
very easygoing.
Terry had kept the cassette
of his interview with Michael but
his only tape player was in his car.
'Here I am in the hotel in Leeds.
'And I'm in the Jackson Five's room
'and I've just asked them for an
interview, just asked Michael,
'and he says it's OK
for a few minutes.
'Just to prove it is him,
I'll start off asking his name.
'The date is 19th February, 1979.'
There you go - 1979.
'What is your name? Michael Jackson.
'And what is your job? I'm a singer.
'Who thought of the name
Jackson Five?
'A little fat wobbly lady in the
neighbourhood. She liked us a lot.
'We were trying to think of a name
for the group
and she said,
"How about The Jackson Five?"
'What are your favourite bands?
'Earth Wind & Fire, some
of the old... I like Wings. Wings!
'Wings and things!
'What about the Bee Gees? # Band
on the run... # Oh, yeah, I forgot
about them. I like the Bee Gees.
'# Well, you can tell
by the way I use my walk
I'm a woman's man, no time to talk
'La, la la...
You forgot the words, there. Yes.
'Um...
'What do you like most?
'Things that you like.
I like kids a lot.
'I have a lot of nephews and nieces.
'I fish,
'er...
THEY LAUGH ON TAPE
Strange how he jumped
from one to the other! 'Thank you.
'Terry, tell your brothers
and sisters hi.'
TAPE FINISHES
That's amazing!
How do you feel now? Emotional.
I haven't heard it for a long time
but I seem to know it word for word.
Every time, or the last time
I listened to it,
I wanted to rekindle
my friendship with Michael.
Terry and Michael
began a phone friendship
until Terry notched up a 300 bill
and got his parents' phone cut off.
But in 1993,
two papers ran the story
that Michael had been masturbating
during one of their phone calls.
It's been in the papers that
Michael made an inappropriate
phone call to you... Did that...?
Can you tell us
what happened there?
I don't want to talk about
what was in the papers.
That was well documented.
It came out without my authority.
It developed from someone with a big
mouth, a friend who knew the story.
Can you say if it's true?
Parts of it are true.
The majority of it is true, but
papers get their bit and twist it.
They make things sensationalised.
It's not something that
I want to regurgitate, really.
It was well documented.
Anybody who read it at that time
will have seen what was said.
But we had several conversations,
we'd sing to each other.
We'd talk about our families.
There's lots of things
that we spoke about.
It's quite unfortunate that someone
wants to focus on a ten second...
well, three minute part
of many telephone hours,
talking for hours on the telephone.
So you don't feel any grudge
against him about that or
that he acted wrongly?
I don't feel any grudge
against Michael at all.
It's a shame that we don't have
our friendship still.
Perhaps one day we will still be
friends and meet each other again
and continue our friendship
where we left off, I suppose.
MUSIC: Thriller
by Michael Jackson
I was many months into my journey.
I was still dwelling
on my encounter with Joe Jackson.
I believed he was the key
to understanding Michael.
I wanted another chance to speak
to him and the road back started
with a magician in Las Vegas.
PHONE RINGS
'You've reached the Magnificent One.
'You know people,
I've been in this town 15 years
'and never had a bad day.
'There's something about
consistency.
'You know what to do.'
MACHINE BEEPS
Louis here checking in.
Give us a call if you get this.
'Majestik seemed happy to be back
on board as a paid consultant.
'He took us to his stepfather,
Keith.'
Keith raised me since I was seven.
You were in a relationship
with Majestik's mum? No.
Majestik ran away from home.
He was about ten years old.
He showed up at my place.
I said, "Let's go see your parents"
He said, "I don't got no parents."
I said, "Where are you staying?"
He said, "In the park."
So we go over and he really was.
Why had you run away from your
parents? I didn't run away.
I just wanted to do magic.
Where I'm originally from,
there wasn't a big feel for that.
Los Angeles, Hollywood
has a big feel for that, so...
But you'd been living in the park.
I had been there for a little
while. Why? I had nowhere to stay.
Maybe we'll talk about that
another time. No big deal.
'Majestik wanted to show
us some of his TV appearances
'defending Michael against
child abuse allegations in 1993.'
'Majestik is a good friend
of the family.'
I believe that Michael will
be cleared of all these charges.
There's no way it could be true.
They say Michael's childlike.
We should be more like Michael
and relate to kids
in a way they can understand.
Were they pleased with
how you handled it? Of course.
If they weren't pleased,
I wouldn't have done more shows.
Wouldn't you be pleased to have
somebody like me defending you?
Michael seems to get Uri Geller
to do it now.
Uri Geller does it
because he's a bigger name.
But Uri Geller cannot handle
that kind of crap. Trust me.
Hey Joe, Majestik calling.
I don't know if you're
in the studio or whatever.
Give me a call back. I'm here
with the BBC. The good BBC.
They want to come to New Jersey
and do a follow up on that piece.
So give me a call
when you get this message.
MUSIC: "Human Nature"
by Michael Jackson
Majestik and I caught up with Joe
in a shopping mall in New Jersey
where he was associate producer
on a low-budget film.
You girls gonna sing?
Yeah. You gonna move? Yes,
we're going move it and shake it.
Yeah, I'm gonna watch it.
You know I'm gonna watch.
All right. We're gonna rehearse
for a little while. OK.
The plan was to interview Joe
back at his hotel once filming
had been completed for the day.
'It was two in the morning
before we got started.
'I was tired and so was he.'
I've been trying to understand
the Jackson family a bit.
I'm trying to understand Michael.
Michael has said
that he's so nervous of you
that when he sees you or when he's
about to see you, he regurgitates.
All the way to where, Joe?
He can regurgitate
all the way to the bank.
MAGESTIK LAUGHS
He's right. Daily.
LAUGHTER
You really... I'm not sure
what you mean when you say that.
Are you saying you don't believe
he does or that you don't care?
Do I really care? Yeah.
I really don't.
Michael's on record saying you
beat him with switches and belts.
I never beat him. I whipped him
with a switch and a belt.
I never beat him.
It's also been written that
you would call him "big nose".
Did he say that? If he said that, I
don't recall calling him "big nose".
If I did, it was out of a guilty
situation, so you know...
Whatever.
When you look at Michael now,
and in particular his nose,
what do you think?
I don't think anything.
That's what he wanted.
That's what he did.
Do you think it looks good?
If it's good for him,
it's good for me.
Whatever he wants.
Louis, he doesn't want
to talk about that stuff.
I will get up and walk out if
I have to talk about Michael's nose.
He wouldn't like that.
It seems to me, having researched
Michael for almost a year,
that he does need...
help of some sort.
That he's a remarkably talented,
kind, loving individual,
but also that he's troubled for
reasons I don't fully understand.
I don't think what you're saying is
so. I don't see that he's troubled.
What about the fact that he doesn't
seem to have any real friends?
He doesn't seem to have any
real romantic relationships.
Michael has everything
that he needs.
He only relates to children.
He has no friends his own age.
Michael is a kid, sort of like...
Michael is a kid himself.
He's never really grown up.
Have you ever wondered whether
because he was successful young,
that he came to feel that
he had to be this cute little boy
in order for people to love him
and that stopped him growing up?
No, I don't think that way at all.
In his physical appearance,
he's given himself this tiny nose,
and has made himself look
more childlike as an adult.
There we go with
that nose thing again.
Michael has... If he wants
an operation on his nose,
plastic surgery,
hey, he can do it, it's his right.
But why would he do it?
People get plastic surgery
all the time. Not to that extent.
I don't know know what you mean.
As much as he's had it.
Well, whatever he's done,
he's the only one that did it.
He can do what he likes.
I wasn't there when he did it.
I didn't know about it, so...
I'm not going to talk about
his nose any more.
Don't ask that question again.
I'm not questioning his rights.
He would not like for me
to tell you about his nose.
If you don't want this interview
to end, stay away from it.
Why? Why on that
particular subject?
I'm not gonna make him mad.
You'd better stop.
I'm not gonna make him mad because
of something I've said to the BBC.
He don't want me to do that.
Let me ask, generally, then.
Do you think that maybe because
he...was a child star, that he's...
What I SHOULD be talking about...
Stop calling him Jacko Wacko.
You all started that.
You started that.
In America,
when someone is wacko, he's crazy.
Jacko Wacko. Nah.
Well, a lot of people think
Michael IS crazy.
I don't think so. He's very smart.
Michael is widely regarded as the
most eccentric person on the planet.
That can't be news to you.
Is it?
Well... Whatever.
Would you like to see
Michael settle down with a partner?
I mean, what's a partner?
A loved one.
He's got his kids.
What, a wife? Is that it?
Yeah, a boyfriend or a girlfriend.
A what? What did you say?
A boyfriend or a girlfriend.
Are you saying Michael's gay now?
Why don't you just... Stop.
Turn the camera off. Now.
Turn the camera off. TURN IT OFF!
You can put it back on later and
continue. Why? Turn the camera off.
Wait, this isn't your interview.
That's why I'm here.
What do you say, Joe?
Hey, hey, hey!
MAJESTIK'S SHOUTING DROWNS OUT JOE
Ask what conversation we can have.
If I had have known this would
be a talk about Michael,
I never would have allowed you
to do this. Never.
This is Michael's father,
and you say he has a boyfriend?
How more disrespectful can you be?
Or girlfriend. You should have said,
"Girlfriend or wife."
That's an insult to Mr Jackson.
He let you come here...
Why is that an insult? We don't
believe in gays. I can't stand them.
Me neither.
When you say that Michael
should have a boyfriend...
That's an insult.
Yeah.
Katherine...
She's going to be REALLY angry
about that.
You asked his father
if he had a boyfriend.
That's an insult. Or girlfriend.
But why...
You said "boyfriend".
Boyfriend or girlfriend.
What's he need a boyfriend for?
You tell me...
Are you saying Michael
has a boyfriend?
No. I don't know what Michael's
romantic interests are.
I don't know which way he goes. I'm
telling you, he's not with no boys.
OK?
He's not that. Anyway, Majestik,
I'm going to have to end this.
I'm going to have to end this.
See? I told you.
I'm not going to make Michael
my enemy by talking about him.
I warned him.
Let's talk about something else.
It's over.
I said "boyfriend or girlfriend"
because I said "partner"
and Joe asked what I meant.
I was explaining what that means.
I don't understand...none of this,
really.
Let me rephrase it. Would you like
to see Michael in a relationship?
If you are referring to a wife,
with a wife,
that's up to him,
whatever he wants to do.
If he's happy he's like he is,
that's fine.
If he wants to be with a lady,
that's fine.
Whatever he wants is fine with me.
Well, except a boyfriend,
apparently.
That ain't gonna happen.
He's not gay.
You must be gay to have a boyfriend.
That is not going to happen.
And we're through.
I just spoke to you for 20 minutes.
We're through.
I just want to understand Michael.
It was a deeply strange interview,
but a revealing one.
I wondered what it must have been
like living with Joe as a father.
In February 2003, Martin Bashir's
film about Michael Jackson
was watched by 14 million people
in the UK and 27 million in the US.
The press was universally hostile
to Michael,
focusing on him sharing
his bedroom with children.
Fans rallied to Michael,
and went on the counterattack.
It was the end of the road.
Good to see you!
'I wondered where all of this
'left the original fixer
of Bashir's interview, Uri Geller.'
You fixed up
the Martin Bashir programme.
How did you feel about it?
I felt, er... Well, I felt betrayed.
Is it now hard for you and Michael?
Has it spoilt your relationship?
I think so.
I DO think so. Umm...
Because...
Probably Michael thinks
that I betrayed him.
And, um, that's what I feel.
That's very sad because we were
good friends. We were close friends.
So, so...
I believe that time will heal.
So, you made a mistake.
I think I made the mistake
of taking Martin Bashir to, um,
to Michael Jackson.
Have you spoken to Michael since
that documentary went out? One time.
What was that? It was very short.
It's not for the camera.
I've not spoken to him
since that call.
When was that?
I won't talk about that either.
You just mentioned it!
I did, but I won't put a time frame
to that call.
Was it regarding the Bashir...
Yeah, it was. He was expressing
his disappointment?
I won't say what he said,
but I said to him that I was
terribly sorry that it happened.
Would you like to apologise to me?
For what?
For choosing Martin over me.
There was a fork in the road.
One road was Martin, one was me.
There was also Sir David Frost.
I'm sorry that I didn't introduce
David Frost to Michael Jackson.
Why are you smiling?
Let's walk!
I'm giving you the chance to
apologise and you're not taking it!
I don't think I should
apologise to you.
Read my mind.
Are you still friends with Martin?
How are relations between you?
Which Martin are you talking about?
If it's Martin Bashir,
I have never been his friend.
I don't want to see his face again.
If there's anything to do with him
on TV, I immediately switch
channels.
I don't ever want to see
Bashir again.
What do you think of Michael
as he was shown in the documentary?
The mistakes that Michael did,
in my opinion, are...
Instead of just looking
into the camera and saying,
"You know, I did the plastic surgery
"because I don't want to look
like my dad..."
I think it was a mistake to tell
the camera he sleeps with kids.
It was also a mistake
to hold that kid's hand.
But Michael is so pure
in his thoughts towards children...
Would it be a mistake...
..and towards his love for children,
which is totally non-sexual.
Would it be a mistake for him
to sleep with children?
I think so. I think so.
As a father.
I'm speaking as a father.
I would think twice about sending my
kids into anyone's bed. Absolutely.
Even Michael. Even Michael, yeah.
It seems to me you've used him
a bit to generate some publicity,
which I think is understandable.
I just wonder if you have
any regrets about doing that.
Um... When you say that I used him
to generate publicity,
that is not true -
that is absolutely wrong.
It was great to have him as a
friend.
Probably he thought the same
when we WERE friends.
What do you think he thinks now?
I don't know what he thinks now.
I will probably know sooner or
later.
There's no doubt in my mind
that we will be together again.
I never met Michael Jackson.
I'd like to say that after
my long journey through his world,
I no longer felt the need to speak
to him in person, but I can't.
I'd love to meet him.
Not to ask why he is the way he is,
which I don't think he could
answer himself anyway.
I would simply enjoy being with him,
another curious bystander and fan.
BOY: 'What is your favourite place
you like touring?'
MICHAEL: 'The UK.
'What has been your biggest problem
in show business?
'Er... It's a good question,
but it's hard to answer.
'I wouldn't know what to say.
'Have you ever had the crowd
booing at you?
'No, never. Never ever. Honestly.
It's never happened. Mm-hmm.
'How would you feel if they did?
'Well... I would say, "What are you
booing at?" I would ask them why.'
contains strong language.
I've always been fascinated
by the pop star Michael Jackson.
I've made approaches to see if he'd
be interested in collaborating on
a documentary. I never heard back.
But in the summer of 2002, I
decided to make a start without him,
hoping he'd want to get involved.
It was worth the risk, for a chance
to learn about this eccentric star.
It was June and Michael Jackson
was in England for a short visit.
He stayed in London and was ferried
around by Uri Geller to the sights.
What are you hoping to see? I don't
know, I haven't been in yet!
Uri also took Michael to Devon for
the day to visit his football club,
Exeter City.
When I called Michael
and I said to him,
"Michael, will you come to Exeter
City football club?"
He said, "Will there be children
from hospitals?" I said "Yes."
His first words were,
"See it as done."
Michael Jackson!
Hello to you wonderful people
of Exeter.
CHEERING
I wasn't in Exeter that day, I was
in London checking into his hotel
in an effort to get close to him.
I'd made several calls to Uri Geller
to see if he'd arrange a meeting.
At first, he seemed keen
to let us film some of the trip.
Now Michael was in the country, I
was having trouble getting through.
GELLER: 'Hi, we're on the phone
or out of range.
'Please leave your name and number
and we'll call you back.
'Alternatively you can text message
us on the same number. Bye.'
Well, what do you think?
Does he usually answer?
Yeah. I'll try back in a bit.
Fans were gathered outside
Michael's hotel.
Knowing that he's in that building,
you can just feel it.
So much atmosphere -
everyone from all over the world,
different nationalities,
giving back some of that love
he gives us in his music.
Louis? Yeah. See, I told you it was.
Mark Lester.
I recognised the name. Mark Lester
was Oliver Twist in the 1968 film.
Are you staying in the hotel? No.
No, we've just been in. To see
Michael? Yeah. You're joking!
I've known Michael for years.
Really? Yes. How about that.
Lovely chap. How did you meet him?
Well, we share a common interest,
well, a common thing in
that we were both child stars.
We've sort of known each other
since we were kids really.
How amazing. We've
had the most wonderful evening.
What were you doing? Watching some
sort of video, Beadle's or...
Yes, he likes watching Lisa Riley.
Lisa Riley? Yes.
The You've Been Framed? Yes.
He loved that programme.
Said he was rolling
on the floor laughing.
What do you do now, Mark? Are you
still an actor? I'm an osteopath.
I still hadn't heard back from Uri
so I wrote Michael a letter.
What are you writing? Dear Michael,
I'm making a documentary
for BBC Television about
you and what you mean...
..to your fans.
I would...love...to...speak to you.
Smiley face?
Yeah. Do you think so?
Well, yeah. Seems like the kind
of guy who'd appreciate it.
Am I plugged in? Can you hear me?
OK.
'Michael was staying on the same
floor as me. A security guard was
outside his room all night.'
Got a message. Go to security
and they'll take it from there.
OK, thanks very much. Thanks a lot.
I couldn't be sure Michael would
ever receive my letter or read it
or if he'd appreciate it,
let alone respond to it.
I tried to remain positive.
CROWD CHANTS
There was a second reason why
Michael Jackson was in the UK.
A demonstration had been organised
against Michael's label - Sony.
Sales of Invincible
were disappointing. He blamed
Sony for lack of promotion.
Fans had come to lend support.
It seems odd to protest against a
record label for not promoting it.
It's not just about that.
It's about destroying music.
It's about art in general.
By not promoting the album,
they don't let people
hear the music.
It's like business against art.
That is brilliant. Michael's coming.
He's coming here? He's coming.
Are you lying? Wicked!
Are you serious?
Don't leave, please don't leave, he
wants you here. Please don't leave.
Please stay.
LOUD SCREAMING
God, he is on there.
He's actually on there!
It's quite exciting!
CROWD SHOUTS AND SCREAMS
EVERYONE: Sony sucks! Sony sucks!
Sony sucks! Sony sucks! Sony sucks!
PEOPLE CONTINUE TO SCREAM
'It was my first encounter
with Michael.
'Even I hadn't been immune
to the excitement.
'The number of fans wasn't huge
but the devotion was undeniable.'
Are you all right?
Michael flew back to America. I'd
had no word from the Jackson camp
and what's worse,
I'd heard a troubling rumour.
Martin Bashir had been seen
going for a meeting with Michael.
Would this have implications
for my documentary?
Without Michael, the next best
thing might be meeting his friends.
Many have been child stars,
former child stars and children.
We arranged an interview with
Terry George, who'd been friends
with Michael as a teenager.
We got an e-mail
saying he'd pulled out.
Strangely, the e-mail was also sent
to Uri Geller. Time to meet Uri.
Hello! Hello, Uri, how are you
doing?
Come in.
You are kind of an unofficial
spokesperson for...
People who want to speak to Michael,
they come to you, don't they?
They come to see me because
it's known that we are friends.
Michael's been here,
hasn't he? Yes.
Many times? I don't want to comment
on that... Why not?
It's no-one's business
how many times he's been here.
I can tell you there was one
occasion... So not that many?
No, not that many. Really?
How many times did he come
to England overall? Not many.
There's a picture of Michael
over here.
May I pick that up? Absolutely.
Yeah, this was an amazing event
when I became the joint chairman
of Exeter City Football Club,
I rang Michael
and David Blaine and asked them if
they'd become honorary directors.
To come all the way from Los Angeles
and give that unbelievable speech
where you were,
you attended... Where? Exeter City
Football Club. No.
You weren't there?
No, we weren't allowed to. I
thought you were in the background.
No, we wanted to be in the stadium
but we weren't allowed.
I thought you were there. We called
to interview you in the run-up
to the event, do you remember?
I... You said no. I said to you no?
Do you want to know why I said no?
With you,
there's always that suspicion
that you'll turn this into
something to ridicule Michael.
I think he's been hurt so much
by the press, by television,
that he's very reluctant to open up
and inviting a crew
into his own home.
Although I have arranged
an interview with him for ITV.
Because a certain journalist in ITV,
I believed that he had credibility
and was honest in what he was
saying.
I'm not saying you're not honest.
Mm.
Is it the Martin Bashir interview?
Mm-hm. So...
They've started interviewing
Michael. That's a fantastic scoop
for ITV.
Not a lot of camera crew is going
to Neverland. Have they been there?
I think so.
I contacted you in early June? Mm.
About hoping to meet Michael. Yeah.
And, um, maybe being part of the
Exeter City football event. Yes.
And, um, at that time, not only did
you not help me,
you helped Martin Bashir get
an interview with Michael Jackson.
I'm sorry!
Please forgive me.
Forgive me if I was wrong.
We all make mistakes. I could've
been wrong. The good news is...
You're... ..We're still here.
Exactly. If you wanna fix it up now,
or tomorrow or next week that
would be brilliant. Tell you what.
I will try. I will ask Michael
if he'll be interviewed by you.
But again, having said that,
while you prepared
for this documentary
you approached a few people who
had negative material about Michael.
That gets to me.
How...what...who...? I'm not, I
won't mention names.
But you were trying to extract
negativity from people about
Michael.
I think I know
what you're talking about. OK.
Do you mean Terry George? I won't
mention names. Why? Cos I just
don't wanna mention names. Mm-hm?
I know you got an e-mail from Terry.
I think you know that I know
cos the e-mail was CC'd to you.
We did intend to interview Terry
and hoped to do it on Monday.
Terry, having been in contact with
you, has withdrawn his interview.
I don't wanna mention names...
I don't expect you to.
I have so you don't have to.
I won't mention anything.
But I did get e-mails from different
sources you have approached
that led me to believe the flavour
of this programme will be anti.
It'll be derogatory towards Michael.
This is Michael in 2002.
This is an approved photograph.
I think Michael looks great here.
It could be, even, a lookalike.
I'm not doing a stunt.
This is Michael Jackson.
And the reason I'm pulling it out
is just because it's easy to talk
about Michael Jackson.
He's not here in person, so it's
nice to have something to refer to
to remind us
who we're talking about...
These are exactly the lines
that make your programme
the, the suspicious programme
that I'm talking about. Why?
Because of your, your -
the way you react
and the sort of, er, snakey manner
you bring up things.
This was a very good example.
I don't follow you. We're not
in kindergarten here, are we, Louis?
I honestly don't know what you mean.
Do you consider me a four-year-old?
Do you mean that I have photos? No.
I refer to the manner of
questioning.
"I'm holding a picture just to
remind you. Michael is not here."
That's unnecessary.
This is what makes your programme,
um, in my opinion, not the right one
to interview Michael Jackson.
Do you believe that I have no idea
what you're talking about? Good.
It means you believe in yourself.
It was getting tense so I asked Uri
about his wedding the year before.
Why did you think Michael would
be a good best man? He's a friend.
He was in England.
I thought it'd be a wonderful angle.
Best men conventionally give
a speech where they reveal secrets
about the groom, don't they?
Not in Jewish weddings. What do they
do in Jewish weddings? Lift you up.
Do they? On a chair and dance to
klezmer. They don't do the speech?
They don't do, "I'll never forget
the time Uri..." What?
"..bent that spoon."
Are you gonna help us, Uri?
We'll see. What does that mean?
To me that means no. What? To me...
No. I promised you.
Well, say yes, then. I gave you
my word I'd bring up your name.
Bringing it up isn't - you don't
just bring it... You might bring
it up and go, "Avoid this man." No.
I'd say...I'll, I'll tell Michael
you're doing a major documentary.
And, erm... And don't go near it.
He will say, "Who is Louis?"
I'll say, "He's a nice young man.
"He does
all these interesting programmes."
Then I'll tell him... Ha-ha!
"But I advise you not to do it."
Big mistake. Big mistake.
'It seemed pretty clear
that Uri was not on our side.
'He was on ITV's side.
'To learn more about Michael, I'd
have to go where he was, Las Vegas.'
MUSIC: Human Nature
by Miles Davis
Michael was on holiday, but was
seen shopping at the Luxor Hotel,
apparently um-ing and ah-ing
over buying a golden sarcophagus.
He'd also been seen at the
Guinness World Of Records Museum.
He looked like he had lipstick on -
well, he did really.
To me, he looked like, I guess
he was very white. Like a ghost.
No colour.
He'd apparently visited his friends,
Siegfried and Roy's magic show.
DRAMATIC MUSIC
Progress was slow.
But, we had one lead. An ultra fan
and impersonator called E Casanova.
He was performing at a local club.
Every now and then in life, you run
across something you can't explain.
Tonight is your night to witness
something you can't explain.
The world's greatest tribute artist.
The best in the planet.
Ladies and gentlemen, please put
your hands together and welcome
the legendary, the unforgettable
E Casanova! Give it up!
APPLAUSE
DRAMATIC MUSIC CONTINUES
INTRODUCTION TO BILLIE JEAN
# She was more like a beauty queen
# From a movie scene
# Said I don't mind
but do you think I am the one
# Who can dance on the floor
in the round
# She said I am the one
# Ooh!
Kid's not my son
# No, no
# She says I am the one
# You know Billie Jean... #
E Casanova's manager
took me backstage.
How you doing? Majestik Magnificent.
Say again? Majestik Magnificent.
I'm Louis. Louis Theroux.
I'm the door for E Casanova, number
one tribute artist in the world.
Endorsed by the family
and Michael Jackson. Whoa!
Majestik-with-a-K Magnificent
claimed he knew the Jackson family.
Michael's mum and dad, Katherine
and Joe and all his siblings.
Randy, Jermaine. I can call 'em all!
They're my friends. LaToya, you
there? Pick up, I need to talk to
you.
Hello, hello, hello, hello.
Pick up, pick up.
Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.
Hello, hello, hello, hello. Pick up.
Give me a call if you get this.
If he was telling the truth,
Majestik Magnificent was
the Las Vegas answer to Uri Geller.
Maybe we can get something going
with LaToya?
I don't know. She's finicky.
If LaToya do your show, forget
about doing something with Michael.
What about if Katherine did it?
That's different. Michael loves her.
Joseph? I know he's back now,
you're lucky, he's back but he was
in China, for almost a month.
Do you think that could possibly
happen? I don't know.
I know what y'all saying, you come
over here in America, to interview
one of the Jacksons or Michael,
er...
You all didn't all go through
the proper procedures
and you kinda rushed this thing.
Interviewing the Jacksons takes
preparation. We're preparing now.
How? Talking to you.
You tell us what we need to do
and then we'll do it. I can't tell
anything - I haven't talked to them.
Firstly,
if I decided I was going to do this,
after finding out they wanted to do
it, it's not impossible.
Left or right? Left. Right. Right.
Make up your mind, left or right?
Right.
When it comes to directions,
don't trust him.
Why y'all staying at La Quinta?
Where y'all staying at?
Y'all budget. The BBC,
they want NBC or CBS on it.
Y'all ain't stayin'
at Caesars, MGM, Mirage?
La Quinta, it's all right.
It's all right but...
I'm pullin' into La Quinta, nobody
know in Britain who La Quinta...
If you came out and said
"We're at the Mirage."
That's impressive.
Didn't answer that one.
Can you tell me where Michael's
staying? Impossible, you know why?
Not authorised.
And you the press, it'll be like...
If I talk to Michael and he go,
"Yes, tell him where I'm stayin',"
then I could tell you.
But I can't do that.
That'd be like...
That'd be betrayal,
can't betray him on...with anyone.
Where is he staying? Can't tell ya.
Totally impossible.
Let me tell ya a secret -
I live in the family's home
for nine and a half years,
is because
the whole family trusts me.
The reason I was offered 200,000
by Hard Copy, Inside Edition
and turned it down and went to
Katherine and Joseph and told them.
I was offered 1.5 million to do
a book for being with them 22 years,
living in their house, and turned
it down because Katherine Jackson
is a second mother to me.
As long as she's alive,
I'll never do anything to hurt her.
See, you can't buy integrity,
you can't buy dignity.
Your character and word
is more important than money.
The press have a hard time
to understand that.
Remember I said, "You're a class
act, you're a great professional"?
See, you're ruining that now.
I was only teasing, cos we know
where he's staying.
Why you asking me? I wanted to see
what you'd say. I'm...I'm a realist,
I don't lie, I don't bullshit,
I'm a realist.
I'm not an idealist.
Majestik told us he would put
some calls into his Jackson friends
and get back to us.
Time passed. I practised moonwalking
and listened to E Casanova's songs,
written as a tribute to Michael
called The Laughter In We.
RECORDING: # Because of Michael,
I see, the laughter in we
# Sometimes
we'll sing a sad, sad song
# When I see in the tears
# Has brought the laughter in here
# Of the world we all live on
# Because of Michael, I see
# The laughter in we... #
A few days later, Majestik called.
Get this.
This is how I got
Michael Jackson's attention.
I was Muhammad Ali's magician.
He introduced me to Michael Jackson
because I do magic,
Michael loved magic.
And this
is how I got to know Michael.
That was good, man.
That's nothing.
(Watch!) You hold on to it.
Michael came and sit right next
to me at the Pantages Theatre.
And Muhammad Ali told him
I was his personal magician.
Is that true? Yes.
Who has a personal magician?!
It's a weird thing to have.
You're not familiar with Ali.
Muhammad Ali been doing magic
for 20 years. Muhammad Ali? Yes.
He told Michael Jackson I did magic
and Michael said "Show me." "Yeah."
Showed him some magic and he said,
"Come over to my house tomorrow
and show me."
Mm-hm. He gave me a number to call
and I called and went over.
How did it go from there to you
living with Michael.
I didn't live with him.
I live in a different... I kind of
like live with the Jackson family.
You lived at Havenhurst?
The Jackson family home. Yes.
Joseph let me move in first before
Katherine. Into the main house
or an outbuilding? No.
I was in the main house.
Don't try to say I was a servant.
Don't try to say I was a caretaker,
no. In the main house.
Reporters trying to switch that.
No, what's that
got to do with being a servant,
being in an outbuilding?
That's for maids - I'm a magician.
What's that got to do with...
I'm not saying you were in the loo.
I was in the main house,
the main house.
I took Joe Jackson out to dinner
yesterday to Tickle Me, Tuesday,
a comedy show...
Tickle Me, Tuesday...
At the Aladdin Hotel, correct.
And...we stayed out till midnight
and I told him about...
er...the BBC, you all.
And wanting interviews
and what he thought about it
and he said he'll think about it.
If the terms and everything is met,
yes. What if some...
Are you all right? Sorry?
Are you OK?
Cut the camera.
You can't keep doing that.
'It all went a little strange.
'He suddenly seemed anxious about
making a deal on behalf of Joe.'
Until the terms be met and they
haven't. What are the terms?
I ain't got nothing to do with that.
You're a fuckin' idiot sometimes.
Why do you say I'm a fucking idiot?
Cos everybody knows what terms
and conditions mean,
when you're filmin' Joe Jackson.
I'm just clarifying.
Terms and conditions means,
in case you don't know...
That makes me a fucking idiot?
You should know,
you're a professional.
Several phone calls later,
part of the terms were agreed.
Namely the fee, 5,000 in cash for
Joe, and a 500 bonus for Majestik.
It wasn't Michael but it might
get me closer to Michael,
so I thought it was worth a shot.
The agreement was that we'd only
hand over the cash if Joe turned up.
It wasn't clear what 5,000 would
get us. There was one more meeting
with Majestik.
So we're meeting him at the IHop
in the parking lot.
It gets more and more like
doing a drug deal. It does.
Know what I mean? I do.
You wanna take a left?
Here? Yep.
Good enough? Yeah.
We still had no hard evidence that
Majestik could make this happen,
or even that he knew
the Jacksons at all.
Is he here? Yep.
He-hey!
Phew!
CAR DOORS SHU Good morning. How you doing this
morning? Good afternoon.
It's morning for me. Long night.
What were you up to last night?
This and that.
We'll meet Mr Jackson tomorrow
at 11.00pm at the Golden Nugget.
We're going to look at a couple of
his acts. 11 seems a little late.
No. No.
Is it any way it could be earlier?
What? The meeting. No.
No, you gettin'...absolutely not.
I said two hour, Mr Jackson, it
supposed to be an hour and a half.
Because the terms that was met was
pathetic, you're lucky to get that.
This is really beneath him.
I got to tell him 'bout
the camera because...
he's not going to understand this.
You're starting off bad
with that little home camera!
It looks like a toy camera, man!
It looks like something you go to
Wal-Mart to buy and walk around
with!
It's broadcast quality, though.
Tuck your shirt inside.
Tuck the shirt in. That'll be fine.
Look, uh...
Look like a professional journalist!
There ain't nothing wrong
with what you have on.
It's just not the kind of people
they're used to interviewing them.
Don't mess up the interview
tomorrow.
I hardballed him! We are so fucked!
That was all right. We're fucked!
No, we're not. We're fucked!
That was good.
We're gonna get shafted up the...
We're gonna get shafted.
No, we're not.
We're gonna get shafted.
No, we're not.
Why do you say that?
If he does turn up, it'll be 2am
with a band he forces us
to take shots of and gives us
two minutes of interview.
I think it sounds all right, man.
He was a lot more relaxed today.
Because he thinks it's in the bag.
We're in the bag.
The bag is sealed, with us in it.
You know? We just...
We just jump.
We just jump and if we get fucked,
we get fucked.
I think we're gonna get fucked.
Well, that's negative thinking.
Why've you got that thing
pointed at me?
Oh! That's heavy!
'Friday night at the Golden Nugget.
'In an effort to think positive,
I booked a room for the interview.'
How's that? Better?
'I'd been reading about Joe.
'It had been his idea
to put the Jackson Five together,
when Michael was six.
'Joe had been their manager.
'The boys said he was strict
to the point of brutal.'
I don't look silly. Majestik
told me I should. Is that all right?
I'm just gonna say we're making
a documentary about Michael
and who he is
and what makes him tick.
I think that's all right.
The only...iffy question
is...how far to go along
the sort of eccentric line.
And also about
Joe's being an abusive father
is a little bit dicey.
We waited and we waited.
Oh! That's him! I think I see him.
Hello, there.
Nice to see you, Majestik.
How do you do? Louis Theroux,
BBC Television. Pleased to meet you.
Thank you
for sparing some time for us.
How do you do?
He works with Mr Jackson.
This is Will, my director.
Don't be deceived by the tiny,
little camera. We are professional.
I'm checking this camera out.
It's broadcast quality. OK.
There's nothing to worry about.
Majestik and Will went into another
room to sort out the money.
Then the interview could start.
Joe? Can I call you Joe? Yes.
I don't want to be overfamiliar.
And I'm Louis. Louis? Louis.
OK, Louis.
What sets Michael apart
from his brothers and sisters?
What are you speaking of?
PHONE RINGS
You're gonna edit this, right?
Well, you know. It's...
Life in a busy...
Mr Jackson? Sure.
Who's calling, please?
Amir? It's Amir.
Would you like to speak to him?
'Majestik had said Joe
wanted to push a couple of the acts
he was managing.
'And sure enough, a tribute band
called The Front Page duly arrived.
'Although I was keen to talk to Joe
alone, I didn't have a choice.'
They're a family,
like the original Jacksons.
They love each other.
That's how it comes.
KNOCK AT DOOR
I'll get it.
I think I'll have to sign for it.
Oh!
Let 'em come on in. Come on in? Yes.
'And then Krystal arrived,
'a singer also managed by Joe,
with her mother, Cynthia.'
Louis Theroux. Nice to meet you.
Cynthia, nice to meet you.
'By the time
I'd finished interviewing
Krystal and The Front Page,
'I only had five minutes
to talk to Joe.
'I was starting to panic and the
panic was leading to confusion.'
I want to put something to you.
It seems that,
I don't know Michael that way
but he's so much in the public eye,
he has very little left for himself.
Michael.
I'm talking about Michael now.
He has very little left for himself.
I don't just mean
in terms of privacy.
It must be hard for him, having
always been in the public eye...
What is the question?
What's the question?
That's what's...
I'm trying to freestyle!
Sorry! Sorry!
You get in front, man. OK. OK.
Oh! Sorry! There we go. Sorry!
OK. That's cool.
Um... Where were we?
Do you have any advice for me
in my journey towards Michael?
Tell him that you had an interview
with me, cos he'll know it anyway.
He keeps up with everything.
He'll know we spoke to you? Oh, yes.
Will that help
our chances of seeing him?
Yes, this'll help.
Take care. All right.
See you later. Thank you.
All the questions for Joe
were still tucked away in my pocket.
The 5,000 was tucked in Joe's.
Before flying home,
I thought I'd try one long shot.
A contact had given me
the home address of Debbie Rowe,
Michael's second ex-wife
and mother of his two children.
'You need to leave the property.
You will be arrested.'
OK. Can I drop off a letter?
'Leave the property.
You will be arrested.'
OK. I'm just dropping off
a letter for you. Thank you.
I guess it's the right house.
# Willkommen, bienvenue
# Welcome... #
Berlin. January, 2003.
Michael was in town
to collect an award.
Only hours earlier,
Michael, encouraged by his fans,
had taken the decision
to dangle a baby out of his window.
To be honest,
we arrived late and missed that.
Martin Bashir was inside the hotel,
inside Michael's room.
You can't blame... I don't want
to be fucking pious about it,
but you can't blame him for...
It's not sour grapes.
It's just totally bitter.
There's something brilliant
we're missing over there.
All the lights are going off.
Where are we? We're on our way.
CROWD CHEERS
Look at that! People are going nuts!
Do you want to hop out?
'As we pulled up outside his hotel,
'Michael seemed to spot
the light on our camera
and cut short a sing-along
he'd been having.'
CROWD SINGS
CROWD:
# There's a choice we're makin'
# We're savin' our own lives... #
THEY SHOUT IN GERMAN
You are freaks, you are!
He saw you and he left.
He pointed at you. He pointed at
your car. Fuck the press. Go away.
CROWD: # .. a brighter day,
just you and me. #
The fans we'd most upset started
taking pictures of Will and I.
We learnt later this was for
a German Michael Jackson fan site.
For Michael's fans, it was another
chance for a jamboree in his honour.
I recognised Danny
from Hertfordshire.
Why are you here, Danny?
Very dedicated, aren't you? Yeah.
I was in New York last July.
Why are you here? Because...
you know, it's um....
it's...it's...it's a way to...for
us to give some of that love back
and to show our support,
express our support for Michael.
But you think he's a normal
human being? Absolutely.
This guy in London seemed to see
Michael as a religious figure.
I'm not...I'm not seeing him
as Jesus, or anything.
I see him as an incredibly gifted
human being who, maybe, was put here
for a reason
to inspire people through his own...
And to help heal the world through
his...his inspirational message.
He inspires me, you know?
To just hold on and be positive...
and, er...and be faithful
and believe.
It was minus six degrees,
but many of the fans stayed
outside Michael's hotel all night.
Some huddled,
others moonwalked to keep warm.
Oh, man.
The next day, Michael's
baby dangling was big news.
Michael Jackson has admitted he made
a terrible mistake dangling his baby
out of the window of a Berlin hotel.
Speaking for Michael was Uri Geller.
They almost forced him to...
with love, with passion - "Michael,
Michael, Michael, show us the baby!"
It was a decision, a split-second
decision, a bad one. A mistake.
But the fans didn't seem
too bothered.
THEY CHANT: ..wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful.
You're wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful.
You're wonderful, incredible,
I love you so, you're beautiful...
HORN TOOTS
THEY CHEER
GIRL: I love you, Michael!
It was the night of the Bambis,
where Michael was to receive
the Artist Of The Millennium Award.
To the children of Germany...
TRANSLATOR TRANSLATES INTO GERMAN
MAN: Michael! Michael!
Back at the hotel, with Michael
due to leave in the morning,
I was running out of options.
Is there any chance of a photo?
No.
OK. If I promise you that and it
doesn't come true, I'm a bad guy.
We'll do what we can. We always try.
If he doesn't get mobbed,
he has more time to see more people.
When they start closing in,
we gotta get him out. Yeah.
We will try, I promise.
Diana, what were you saying? Huh?
What were you saying to him? I was
saying that not all fans maul him.
Why did they talk about him being
mobbed? Is he being mobbed? Yeah.
You seem a little emotional. What's
the matter? Nothing. What is it?
What is it? What's the matter?
What is it?
SHE SOBS
It's always the ones that mob him
that get closest!
And the ones that stand back
and respect him don't get a look.
Ah... It does my nut in.
It had been another frustrating
couple of days.
But back in England, a breakthrough.
Michael's friend Terry George
agreed to an interview
in his house near Leeds.
Terry had been friends with Michael
in the early '80s.
With a cassette recorder his parents
bought him, Terry would interview
celebrities staying in Leeds.
I knocked on the door of the hotel
room, and Michael answered the door.
There was no security
stopping me, really.
I said, "Hi, I'm Terry. Can I do an
interview?" He was quite taken
aback.
He invited me into his room
with his brother Randy Jackson
and I interviewed both him
and his brother.
This is the look I had when I met
Michael Jackson. I was very scruffy.
Not very fashionable at all.
Michael said to me, "That's the way
I like to dress." I said, "Scruffy?"
He said, "Casual - like you."
The autographs of the brothers.
Randy, Tito, that's Jackie...
Marlon, Michael.
That's one of the few years
when Michael's fully grown
but when he hadn't had
any plastic surgery.
Yeah. That's exactly as he looked.
Really? He looked exactly like that,
with the Afro hair and...
the wide nose, and so on.
But he was fantastic,
got on well with him.
Um...we swapped addresses
and telephone numbers
and he rang me
the day after he'd left Leeds.
Other celebrities hadn't given me
phone numbers. Michael did, freely.
But we did get on well at the time.
It felt like I'd known him
a long, long time.
He was very comfortable to be with,
very easygoing.
Terry had kept the cassette
of his interview with Michael but
his only tape player was in his car.
'Here I am in the hotel in Leeds.
'And I'm in the Jackson Five's room
'and I've just asked them for an
interview, just asked Michael,
'and he says it's OK
for a few minutes.
'Just to prove it is him,
I'll start off asking his name.
'The date is 19th February, 1979.'
There you go - 1979.
'What is your name? Michael Jackson.
'And what is your job? I'm a singer.
'Who thought of the name
Jackson Five?
'A little fat wobbly lady in the
neighbourhood. She liked us a lot.
'We were trying to think of a name
for the group
and she said,
"How about The Jackson Five?"
'What are your favourite bands?
'Earth Wind & Fire, some
of the old... I like Wings. Wings!
'Wings and things!
'What about the Bee Gees? # Band
on the run... # Oh, yeah, I forgot
about them. I like the Bee Gees.
'# Well, you can tell
by the way I use my walk
I'm a woman's man, no time to talk
'La, la la...
You forgot the words, there. Yes.
'Um...
'What do you like most?
'Things that you like.
I like kids a lot.
'I have a lot of nephews and nieces.
'I fish,
'er...
THEY LAUGH ON TAPE
Strange how he jumped
from one to the other! 'Thank you.
'Terry, tell your brothers
and sisters hi.'
TAPE FINISHES
That's amazing!
How do you feel now? Emotional.
I haven't heard it for a long time
but I seem to know it word for word.
Every time, or the last time
I listened to it,
I wanted to rekindle
my friendship with Michael.
Terry and Michael
began a phone friendship
until Terry notched up a 300 bill
and got his parents' phone cut off.
But in 1993,
two papers ran the story
that Michael had been masturbating
during one of their phone calls.
It's been in the papers that
Michael made an inappropriate
phone call to you... Did that...?
Can you tell us
what happened there?
I don't want to talk about
what was in the papers.
That was well documented.
It came out without my authority.
It developed from someone with a big
mouth, a friend who knew the story.
Can you say if it's true?
Parts of it are true.
The majority of it is true, but
papers get their bit and twist it.
They make things sensationalised.
It's not something that
I want to regurgitate, really.
It was well documented.
Anybody who read it at that time
will have seen what was said.
But we had several conversations,
we'd sing to each other.
We'd talk about our families.
There's lots of things
that we spoke about.
It's quite unfortunate that someone
wants to focus on a ten second...
well, three minute part
of many telephone hours,
talking for hours on the telephone.
So you don't feel any grudge
against him about that or
that he acted wrongly?
I don't feel any grudge
against Michael at all.
It's a shame that we don't have
our friendship still.
Perhaps one day we will still be
friends and meet each other again
and continue our friendship
where we left off, I suppose.
MUSIC: Thriller
by Michael Jackson
I was many months into my journey.
I was still dwelling
on my encounter with Joe Jackson.
I believed he was the key
to understanding Michael.
I wanted another chance to speak
to him and the road back started
with a magician in Las Vegas.
PHONE RINGS
'You've reached the Magnificent One.
'You know people,
I've been in this town 15 years
'and never had a bad day.
'There's something about
consistency.
'You know what to do.'
MACHINE BEEPS
Louis here checking in.
Give us a call if you get this.
'Majestik seemed happy to be back
on board as a paid consultant.
'He took us to his stepfather,
Keith.'
Keith raised me since I was seven.
You were in a relationship
with Majestik's mum? No.
Majestik ran away from home.
He was about ten years old.
He showed up at my place.
I said, "Let's go see your parents"
He said, "I don't got no parents."
I said, "Where are you staying?"
He said, "In the park."
So we go over and he really was.
Why had you run away from your
parents? I didn't run away.
I just wanted to do magic.
Where I'm originally from,
there wasn't a big feel for that.
Los Angeles, Hollywood
has a big feel for that, so...
But you'd been living in the park.
I had been there for a little
while. Why? I had nowhere to stay.
Maybe we'll talk about that
another time. No big deal.
'Majestik wanted to show
us some of his TV appearances
'defending Michael against
child abuse allegations in 1993.'
'Majestik is a good friend
of the family.'
I believe that Michael will
be cleared of all these charges.
There's no way it could be true.
They say Michael's childlike.
We should be more like Michael
and relate to kids
in a way they can understand.
Were they pleased with
how you handled it? Of course.
If they weren't pleased,
I wouldn't have done more shows.
Wouldn't you be pleased to have
somebody like me defending you?
Michael seems to get Uri Geller
to do it now.
Uri Geller does it
because he's a bigger name.
But Uri Geller cannot handle
that kind of crap. Trust me.
Hey Joe, Majestik calling.
I don't know if you're
in the studio or whatever.
Give me a call back. I'm here
with the BBC. The good BBC.
They want to come to New Jersey
and do a follow up on that piece.
So give me a call
when you get this message.
MUSIC: "Human Nature"
by Michael Jackson
Majestik and I caught up with Joe
in a shopping mall in New Jersey
where he was associate producer
on a low-budget film.
You girls gonna sing?
Yeah. You gonna move? Yes,
we're going move it and shake it.
Yeah, I'm gonna watch it.
You know I'm gonna watch.
All right. We're gonna rehearse
for a little while. OK.
The plan was to interview Joe
back at his hotel once filming
had been completed for the day.
'It was two in the morning
before we got started.
'I was tired and so was he.'
I've been trying to understand
the Jackson family a bit.
I'm trying to understand Michael.
Michael has said
that he's so nervous of you
that when he sees you or when he's
about to see you, he regurgitates.
All the way to where, Joe?
He can regurgitate
all the way to the bank.
MAGESTIK LAUGHS
He's right. Daily.
LAUGHTER
You really... I'm not sure
what you mean when you say that.
Are you saying you don't believe
he does or that you don't care?
Do I really care? Yeah.
I really don't.
Michael's on record saying you
beat him with switches and belts.
I never beat him. I whipped him
with a switch and a belt.
I never beat him.
It's also been written that
you would call him "big nose".
Did he say that? If he said that, I
don't recall calling him "big nose".
If I did, it was out of a guilty
situation, so you know...
Whatever.
When you look at Michael now,
and in particular his nose,
what do you think?
I don't think anything.
That's what he wanted.
That's what he did.
Do you think it looks good?
If it's good for him,
it's good for me.
Whatever he wants.
Louis, he doesn't want
to talk about that stuff.
I will get up and walk out if
I have to talk about Michael's nose.
He wouldn't like that.
It seems to me, having researched
Michael for almost a year,
that he does need...
help of some sort.
That he's a remarkably talented,
kind, loving individual,
but also that he's troubled for
reasons I don't fully understand.
I don't think what you're saying is
so. I don't see that he's troubled.
What about the fact that he doesn't
seem to have any real friends?
He doesn't seem to have any
real romantic relationships.
Michael has everything
that he needs.
He only relates to children.
He has no friends his own age.
Michael is a kid, sort of like...
Michael is a kid himself.
He's never really grown up.
Have you ever wondered whether
because he was successful young,
that he came to feel that
he had to be this cute little boy
in order for people to love him
and that stopped him growing up?
No, I don't think that way at all.
In his physical appearance,
he's given himself this tiny nose,
and has made himself look
more childlike as an adult.
There we go with
that nose thing again.
Michael has... If he wants
an operation on his nose,
plastic surgery,
hey, he can do it, it's his right.
But why would he do it?
People get plastic surgery
all the time. Not to that extent.
I don't know know what you mean.
As much as he's had it.
Well, whatever he's done,
he's the only one that did it.
He can do what he likes.
I wasn't there when he did it.
I didn't know about it, so...
I'm not going to talk about
his nose any more.
Don't ask that question again.
I'm not questioning his rights.
He would not like for me
to tell you about his nose.
If you don't want this interview
to end, stay away from it.
Why? Why on that
particular subject?
I'm not gonna make him mad.
You'd better stop.
I'm not gonna make him mad because
of something I've said to the BBC.
He don't want me to do that.
Let me ask, generally, then.
Do you think that maybe because
he...was a child star, that he's...
What I SHOULD be talking about...
Stop calling him Jacko Wacko.
You all started that.
You started that.
In America,
when someone is wacko, he's crazy.
Jacko Wacko. Nah.
Well, a lot of people think
Michael IS crazy.
I don't think so. He's very smart.
Michael is widely regarded as the
most eccentric person on the planet.
That can't be news to you.
Is it?
Well... Whatever.
Would you like to see
Michael settle down with a partner?
I mean, what's a partner?
A loved one.
He's got his kids.
What, a wife? Is that it?
Yeah, a boyfriend or a girlfriend.
A what? What did you say?
A boyfriend or a girlfriend.
Are you saying Michael's gay now?
Why don't you just... Stop.
Turn the camera off. Now.
Turn the camera off. TURN IT OFF!
You can put it back on later and
continue. Why? Turn the camera off.
Wait, this isn't your interview.
That's why I'm here.
What do you say, Joe?
Hey, hey, hey!
MAJESTIK'S SHOUTING DROWNS OUT JOE
Ask what conversation we can have.
If I had have known this would
be a talk about Michael,
I never would have allowed you
to do this. Never.
This is Michael's father,
and you say he has a boyfriend?
How more disrespectful can you be?
Or girlfriend. You should have said,
"Girlfriend or wife."
That's an insult to Mr Jackson.
He let you come here...
Why is that an insult? We don't
believe in gays. I can't stand them.
Me neither.
When you say that Michael
should have a boyfriend...
That's an insult.
Yeah.
Katherine...
She's going to be REALLY angry
about that.
You asked his father
if he had a boyfriend.
That's an insult. Or girlfriend.
But why...
You said "boyfriend".
Boyfriend or girlfriend.
What's he need a boyfriend for?
You tell me...
Are you saying Michael
has a boyfriend?
No. I don't know what Michael's
romantic interests are.
I don't know which way he goes. I'm
telling you, he's not with no boys.
OK?
He's not that. Anyway, Majestik,
I'm going to have to end this.
I'm going to have to end this.
See? I told you.
I'm not going to make Michael
my enemy by talking about him.
I warned him.
Let's talk about something else.
It's over.
I said "boyfriend or girlfriend"
because I said "partner"
and Joe asked what I meant.
I was explaining what that means.
I don't understand...none of this,
really.
Let me rephrase it. Would you like
to see Michael in a relationship?
If you are referring to a wife,
with a wife,
that's up to him,
whatever he wants to do.
If he's happy he's like he is,
that's fine.
If he wants to be with a lady,
that's fine.
Whatever he wants is fine with me.
Well, except a boyfriend,
apparently.
That ain't gonna happen.
He's not gay.
You must be gay to have a boyfriend.
That is not going to happen.
And we're through.
I just spoke to you for 20 minutes.
We're through.
I just want to understand Michael.
It was a deeply strange interview,
but a revealing one.
I wondered what it must have been
like living with Joe as a father.
In February 2003, Martin Bashir's
film about Michael Jackson
was watched by 14 million people
in the UK and 27 million in the US.
The press was universally hostile
to Michael,
focusing on him sharing
his bedroom with children.
Fans rallied to Michael,
and went on the counterattack.
It was the end of the road.
Good to see you!
'I wondered where all of this
'left the original fixer
of Bashir's interview, Uri Geller.'
You fixed up
the Martin Bashir programme.
How did you feel about it?
I felt, er... Well, I felt betrayed.
Is it now hard for you and Michael?
Has it spoilt your relationship?
I think so.
I DO think so. Umm...
Because...
Probably Michael thinks
that I betrayed him.
And, um, that's what I feel.
That's very sad because we were
good friends. We were close friends.
So, so...
I believe that time will heal.
So, you made a mistake.
I think I made the mistake
of taking Martin Bashir to, um,
to Michael Jackson.
Have you spoken to Michael since
that documentary went out? One time.
What was that? It was very short.
It's not for the camera.
I've not spoken to him
since that call.
When was that?
I won't talk about that either.
You just mentioned it!
I did, but I won't put a time frame
to that call.
Was it regarding the Bashir...
Yeah, it was. He was expressing
his disappointment?
I won't say what he said,
but I said to him that I was
terribly sorry that it happened.
Would you like to apologise to me?
For what?
For choosing Martin over me.
There was a fork in the road.
One road was Martin, one was me.
There was also Sir David Frost.
I'm sorry that I didn't introduce
David Frost to Michael Jackson.
Why are you smiling?
Let's walk!
I'm giving you the chance to
apologise and you're not taking it!
I don't think I should
apologise to you.
Read my mind.
Are you still friends with Martin?
How are relations between you?
Which Martin are you talking about?
If it's Martin Bashir,
I have never been his friend.
I don't want to see his face again.
If there's anything to do with him
on TV, I immediately switch
channels.
I don't ever want to see
Bashir again.
What do you think of Michael
as he was shown in the documentary?
The mistakes that Michael did,
in my opinion, are...
Instead of just looking
into the camera and saying,
"You know, I did the plastic surgery
"because I don't want to look
like my dad..."
I think it was a mistake to tell
the camera he sleeps with kids.
It was also a mistake
to hold that kid's hand.
But Michael is so pure
in his thoughts towards children...
Would it be a mistake...
..and towards his love for children,
which is totally non-sexual.
Would it be a mistake for him
to sleep with children?
I think so. I think so.
As a father.
I'm speaking as a father.
I would think twice about sending my
kids into anyone's bed. Absolutely.
Even Michael. Even Michael, yeah.
It seems to me you've used him
a bit to generate some publicity,
which I think is understandable.
I just wonder if you have
any regrets about doing that.
Um... When you say that I used him
to generate publicity,
that is not true -
that is absolutely wrong.
It was great to have him as a
friend.
Probably he thought the same
when we WERE friends.
What do you think he thinks now?
I don't know what he thinks now.
I will probably know sooner or
later.
There's no doubt in my mind
that we will be together again.
I never met Michael Jackson.
I'd like to say that after
my long journey through his world,
I no longer felt the need to speak
to him in person, but I can't.
I'd love to meet him.
Not to ask why he is the way he is,
which I don't think he could
answer himself anyway.
I would simply enjoy being with him,
another curious bystander and fan.
BOY: 'What is your favourite place
you like touring?'
MICHAEL: 'The UK.
'What has been your biggest problem
in show business?
'Er... It's a good question,
but it's hard to answer.
'I wouldn't know what to say.
'Have you ever had the crowd
booing at you?
'No, never. Never ever. Honestly.
It's never happened. Mm-hmm.
'How would you feel if they did?
'Well... I would say, "What are you
booing at?" I would ask them why.'