Des (2020) s01e03 Episode Script

1
REPORTER NO)".
Dennis Nilsen is charged with murdering
Kenneth Ockenden,
Martyn Duffy, William Sutherland
Malcolm Barlow, John Howlett
and Stephen Sinclair.
He's also accused of attempting to murder
Douglas Stewart and Paul Knobbs.
As each of the eight charges were read out
the defendant was asked "How say you, Nilson,
are you guilty or not guilty?"
Eight times in a firm voice
he replied, "Not guilty."
But is Niison guilty of murder
or is he guilty only of manslaughter?
DOOR SHUTS
I don't understand.
It's quite simple.
Having spoken to my solicitors
my barrister, um
learned people
from the psychology profession
I'm not sure if I am guilty.
But on what grounds?
In all the months that we've been talking
you've not mentioned a plea of insanity once.
Not insanity, no.
Diminished responsibility.
But am I mad? I don't know.
"Madness," as Quixote said
"Madness is seeing life as it is,
and not as it should be."
You murdered those men, Des,
and you knew what you were doing.
Did I? I don't deny taking their lives.
You know, I must wear the label of a killer
maybe I should be hanged for it,
but I didn't plan them.
Never.
I took them home with much purer intentions
and then I'd wake up,
they'd be sat there dead.
Now, no one feels the weight
of that more than me, but
the power of responsibility,
at that time, was nil.
Yeah, I look in the mirror, I just see me.
You know?
Just me
friendly, helpful, responsible me.
Just that.
If this was true,
then why didn't you go to the police
after the first time it happened?
Don't you think I contemplated that,
Brian? Eh?
Don't you think I wanted to hand myself in,
or end it all? Y'know?
But then survival
shame, and the future,
makes you promise yourself
it'll never happen again, till it does.
But yeah, I mean
had it not been for the dog,
I may well have surrendered myself.
A | | I know is I don't know,
and thus a jury needs to decide.
The press will be allowed to publish
every word spoken in court.
Every single detail, exposed.
Is that not what you're doing?
Well
I'm not exploiting these young men's
tragedies to sell newspapers.
No, you're just exploiting me.
I hope you know me better than that.
I just want to get to the truth.
Don't you?
LIGHTER CLICKS
KNOCK ON DOOR
Peter, you know Mr Green, QC.
Allan, please.
I hear he's got the Krays' brief?
And Ivan Lawrence as QC. It's a formidable
defence team to say the least.
Please, uh take a seat.
I take it their angle's
"diminished responsibility"?
Didn't wash with Sutcliffe.
The jury won't buy it.
Sutcliffe didn't watch TV with the bodies.
Nilsen's not insane.
They don't have to prove that.
All they have to do is show that he was
suffering some abnormality of mind
and therefore not fully responsible
for what he was doing.
We, on the other hand, have to prove
that these crimes were carefully planned
and premeditated.
Surely his confessions do that?
I'm afraid the confessions
only take us so far.
What do you mean?
He gave you a lot of answers
which prove what he did
but not what mind he was in when he did it.
He gave you exactly what he wanted to.
You hardly asked him any probing questions
about what was on his mind.
Hold on. We didn't want him
to suddenly stop talking.
We needed to identify 15 people.
I understand that, but the effect
was that he gave you a lot of details
that aren't going to help us convict him.
I'm sorry, are you saying he planned this?
We'll never know,
but if all we have are the confessions
then that's not gonna be enough.
We need more. Much more.
BIRDSONG
Should have pushed for motive.
CHAMBERS:
Don't listen to Green.
Everybody always thinks they're
a better copper than a copper.
If he'd have stopped talking, there's no way
we'd have found the people we did.
Listen, they're just looking
for someone to blame
if this all goes pear-shaped.
But we're gonna make damned sure
that doesn't happen.
Yeah.
See you tomorrow.
INDISTINCT CHATTER
Thanks for meeting me.
Please, take a seat.
I almost didn't come.
But you did
cos you know this is wrong.
I take it he's written to you
over the past few months?
Oh, he has.
How much'?
Fifty-two exercise books' worth.
We're gonna need to take a look at them.
That could be useful to prove premeditation.
Mr Jay--
— All that matters is that we find
as much evidence as we can
that Nilsen was in his right mind.
What if he's insane?
You think he's insane?
Well, it's not for me to decide.
HE SCOFFS
He's not mad.
He knew what he was doing was wrong.
I don't deny that.
But at the same time, he was able
to take the head of someone he'd known
the severed head,
into a cooking pot on the stove
and let it simmer overnight
and then the next morning, he was able
to pour himself a cup of coffee
and butter a slice of toast
whilst turning up the heat to make sure
that the head was boiling properly.
Now, that is completely mad.
HE SCOFFS
I mean
He's really done a number on you,
hasn't he?
PETER CHUCKLES
— You mistake me, Mr Jay.
He's not my friend.
I know who he is.
DO you?
Right, well, if there's nothing else
Listen, if he can convince a jury
that he was out of his mind somehow
then he only gets manslaughter.
He goes to a hospital and then in 15 years,
he's deemed "cured"
and he's back out on the streets.
Is that justice for the victims
and their families?
If that happens
can you live with yourself?
Because I know I can't.
I'll drop the exercise books
off at the station.
LODGE:
We have a murder weapon.
A tie attached to a knotted rope.
Seems pretty pre-emptive to me.
OK, good. What else?
HEALEY:
We've got Duffey's knives.
Nilsen let 'em rust in his back garden
so they could never be traced back to Martyn.
HEALEY: That shows knowledge of wrongdoing,
therefore criminally sane.
That's a stretch.
What about these books from Masters?
Surely there's gotta be something in here?
"The tragedy of the monochrome man"?
I mean most of it's rambling nonsense.
They help the defence, if anything.
What about Douglas Stewart?
HEALEY: The press' | | have a field day
with what happened to Stewart.
Police embarrassment
is hardly relevant now.
We have to use him. What else?
What about the Soho Project?
What about it?
A woman called,
thinks someone in her therapy group
could be a possible victim
but I thought we weren't looking
for them anymore.
OK, Steve and I will follow that up.
Is that our lot?
STEVE:
Paul Knobbs, in his statement, says
VOICE FADES
EMILY:
Sorry to have called
it's just, he's been having
this recurring dream.
But actually, I think he's been attacked.
PETER:
OK.
I hope I'm not wasting your time.
Is it alright if we have a word with him?
Go easy on him, OK?
Of course. What's his name?
Carl.
Alright.
CARL:
I'm in a dark room.
I don't know where
and there's music, but it's calm.
And then
this man appears
and I can't see his face
but he's very close to me.
But I'm not afraid, because
I'm warm.
I'm wrapped up in some kind of
sleeping bag.
And then, all of a sudden,
I feel something around my neck
digging into my throat, and choking me.
And I can hear him saying, "Stay still."
And then everything goes dark.
But then after a while, I feel
something on my face, like
sort of like a dog licking me,
or something.
STEVE:
Can you remember what breed?
Uh
No.
Carl.
Have you seen this man?
Yeah, on the news.
PETER:
Yeah, his name is Dennis Nilsen.
He killed 15 young men
and attempted to kill seven others.
A | | of these men were strangled.
Mostly with a tie, or a headphone cord.
But one,
he tried to kill with a sleeping bag.
No
HE STUTTERS
because the man in my dream
keeps telling me
not to get caught up in the zip.
He also said he attempted to drown him
before resuscitating him.
I've never told anyone about the water.
Do you remember the water?
Yeah. Um
It was cold water and
I was being held down.
Where? In a bath or a sink?
I don't understand. Are you
Are you telling me
that this actually happened?
PETER:
Yes.
I think you are one of Nilsen's
attempted victims
because everything that you are telling us
aligns to what he told us.
Now, can you remember where you met him,
or anything about where he lived?
. No.
You said he warned you about
the sleeping bag. What did he say exactly?
Uh I don't know.
— When he warned you about the zip
that shows he was planning it way before
he did it, so I need you to be clear.
Come on. Just try to remember.
I don't wanna do this anymore.
Look, you have to.
I know I know this is tough
but we need all the details.
— Detective.
Just think--
— Detective.
He's told you he's had enough.
— I'm aware of that but
we are I'm I'm just trying--
— STEVE: Peter.
We can't use him.
He won't survive cross-examination.
You saw him in there.
They'll destroy him.
I'll come back in a couple of days,
see if I can get a statement from him
and we can read that out in court, alright?
If we need to.
Peter. We have enough.
He led us to the bodies, for fuck's sake.
for the first day of this,
the trial of Dennis Nilsen
the unassuming civil servant
who's charged with crimes that have shocked
and sickened the nation.
Nilsen is charged with six murders
and two attempted murders.
Details of a recently identified
seventh victim, Graham Allen
a heroin addict and petty criminal,
Will not be featured on the indictment.
PRESS CLAMOUR
— Mr Masters!
What's it like being friends
with a serial killer?
What's it like rubbing shoulders
with a murderer, Masters?
PRESS CLAMOUR
What's it like being friends
with a serial killer?
CROWD SHOUTS
CAMERAS CLICK
Steve.
You alright?
— Good.
Sleep OK?
— No. I never do.
Oh, here he is, Brian Masters!
Biographer to the murderer of the century.
You see the press outside?
Jesus, they'll have headlines for weeks.
Revelling in the case, like carrion.
One of the papers today had the headline,
"House of Horrors: The Trial".
The only "House of Horrors" I've ever seen's
Number Ten Downing Street.
They mention you an' all.
BRIAN: Uh, yes, I saw.
— Yeah.
How do you feel,
being talked about in a national newspaper?
You wanted to see me?
Aye. They've brought me my suit,
but no tie.
I was wondering if I could borrow yours?
Right.
I know it's an ask, but you know,
an open-necked shirt?
Dunno if it's the kind of impression
I wanna give out
on the first day of the trial.
Right. I'll leave it with the guard.
My saviour.
I started out with 15 ties,
but now police have them all in evidence.
GREEN: You, the members of the jury,
will be asked to ascertain
this man's state of mind
at the time of the killings
and to decide, as a result
if he is guilty of the murder
of six innocent young men
or merely of their manslaughter.
That Mr Nilsen killed these men
is not contested by the defence.
They will argue, however,
that he was "out of his mind"
when he committed his crimes
and that he cannot be held truly accountable.
But I intend to prove that Mr Nilsen
not only knew what he was doing
but that these crimes were premeditated
and carefully planned.
He lured 15 innocent young men
back to his home
before cruelly murdering them.
Mr Nilsen is no madman.
He is intelligent and rational
possessing the skills to conceal his crimes
and manipulate those around him.
He is, in short, an experienced
and calculating killer.
I have spent a total of 14 hours
with Dennis Nilsen
on 16 separate occasions since his arrest.
You are a forensic psychiatrist, Dr Hardy?
Correct.
— Could you share with the court
the clinical evaluation you made
of the defendant during these many meetings?
Did you find, for example,
any evidence of mental abnormality?
Quite the reverse.
I formed the impression very quickly
that he was a highly intelligent man.
In my view, Nilsen possesses
an extremely rational mind.
He's capable of feeling very deeply
and concealing these feelings
in order to preserve appearances.
Thank you. No further questions, My Lord.
Dennis Nilsen killed perhaps 15 young men
for no apparent reason.
He kept their bodies,
bathed and dressed them
watched television programmes with them,
conversed with them
about those programmes.
You say you find no evidence
of mental disturbance.
Of course strangling people
is not normal behaviour.
LAWRENCE:
While Nilsen was on remand
he made a series of protests and complaints
about his treatment
in Her Majesty's Prison, Herne Hill.
Would you not agree that this shows
markedly paranoid tendencies?
Perhaps. In some cases.
And in this case, in fact, his behaviour
became so extreme, so erratic
that he was recently put down
as a suicide risk.
Could you tell us, Dr Hardy,
who the psychiatrist was
who recommended this step?
I did.
LAWRENCE: So, would you not agree
that someone at risk of suicide
is by definition suffering a mental disorder?
I suppose, in strict terms
that is true.
— Thank you.
No further questions, My Lord.
Miss Mead?
They're using what happened to Graham
making it all public.
But he doesn't get justice?
I know.
Look, there are certain details
about his case
that can help us--
- You didn't give a shit about him
when you thought he was just a junkie
who OD'd in a squat or a bedsit somewhere.
But now, you're gonna bring up
every little detail.
I'm sorry.
No. No, you're not.
Do you have any fucking idea
what you've put me through?
And he won't even get justice?
All you lot care about
is you're the people
that caught Dennis Nilsen.
STEVE:
Pete. We're back in.
GREEN: So, Mr Stewart,
after meeting him in the Golden Lion
Mr Nilsen suggested that you both go back
to his residence to continue drinking?
That's right. 195 Melrose Avenue.
I remember it very clearly.
— And what happened next?
STEWART:
We had a couple more pints.
He offered me vodka
but I said it's not my drink.
Then he asked me to go to bed with him.
I said that wasn't my thing either.
So I fell asleep on the sofa.
I woke up, must have been a few hours later
and my ankles were tied together, with a tie.
Nilsen was kneeling on my chest,
trying to strangle me.
But I fought him off.
I wasn't going down without a fight.
How did he respond to that?
He started shouting,
"Take my money, take my money!"
Really loud, like.
HUSH ED WHISPERS
DES:
Here.
But you weren't stealing from him?
Seemed like he was trying to make
the neighbours think
he was being attacked himself.
GREEN:
He was trying to create an alibi.
Hardly the act of a man "out of his mind".
Thank you, Mr Stewart.
No further questions, My Lord.
LAWRENCE:
In your police statement, Mr Stewart
you said you stayed
for another drink with Nilsen.
Another drink,
after he allegedly tried to kill you?
I thought that was the best way
to calm him down.
I see. You mentioned earlier
that you remembered seeing the address
as 195 Melrose Avenue.
How did you remember
the address so clearly?
I saw the number, on the door.
You also told us that
when you met him in the pub
the defendant introduced himself
to you as "Dennis".
Yeah.
— And that when you got to his house
to continue your drinking session together,
he offered you vodka.
That's right.
Unfortunately, none of these things are true,
are they?
The defendant's first name may be Dennis
but he always calls himself "Des".
He always drinks rum, not vodka
and there is no number plate
on the house at Melrose Avenue.
There never has been.
I dunno, I thought there was.
LAWRENCE: Hm, but you seemed so sure
of the details before
and why might that be?
Why might someone go to the trouble
of furnishing their testimony
with a great deal of specific detail
that seems to be pulled from thin air?
I put it to you, Mr Stewart,
that your testimony to this court
is nothing more than a pack of lies
dreamt up to satisfy a tabloid newspaper.
Well, Mr Stewart?
Have you sold your story?
HE SIGHS
Uh
Y-yes.
— HUSHED MURMURS
LAWRENCE:
No further questions, My Lord.
How dare he!
Standing up there in that ridiculous suit
spouting those lies!
So you're saying
that Douglas Stewart is lying?
That you didn't try and kill him?
Yes, I did. But not as he described it.
This is about absolute truth, Brian.
It has to be,
otherwise we don't get any answers.
You cannot possibly believe
that what you put him through
out there was justified.
What you getting so agitated about?
I'm giving you a wonderful final act
for your book.
Like, you said about the book, Brian
it's not up to us
to make subjective decisions.
We have to remain objective in all of this.
Thus it is up to the jury to decide
whether I'm just bad
or outrageously bad.
GREEN:
See you back in Chambers, thank you.
Did you know he'd sold his story
to the press?
PETER:
Course I didn't.
GREEN: Lucky the judge didn't strike
his testimony from the record.
It can't have harmed us that much, right'?
Stewart's credibility's gone,
his testimony's now useless.
We're in a lot of trouble.
— Surely we still have enough.
We have the tie with the knotted rope,
and Duffey's knives.
All those show premeditation to murder.
Physical evidence is all very good and well,
but it's also circumstantial.
We had an eye witness, a survivor
and without that,
we're significantly weaker.
I'm sorry.
Hello, Carl.
Can I come in?
WATER POURS
— How have you been?
Things keep coming back to me.
What kind of things?
He said he liked my shoes.
Thank you.
The doctor said it was all nightmares,
caused“.
I'd had a bit of a hard time
with an ex of mine.
They even put me on tablets
to block everything out.
Listen, Carl, um
The trial isn't going how we'd hoped.
We think your testimony could be crucial.
But I've already given my statement.
The man said that would be enough.
— I know.
But we need you to give it in court.
What, with him there?
You wouldn't have to be close to him.
— No, I can't.
Carl
— He killed me
Mr Jay, and then he brought me back to life.
I can't imagine
what you've been through, Carl.
I really can't.
But please believe me, if he gets
a lesser sentence, you'll find no peace.
I'm sorry. I can't
be in the same room as him.
I can't go back there.
Then they'll subpoena you anyway.
You'll be forced to testify.
So I don't have a choice?
DOOR OPENS
DOOR SHUTS
I swear by Almighty God that the evidence
I shall give shall be the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
GREEN: Could you recount, Mr Stottor,
the events of that night
in April 1982,
when you met the defendant?
Where, for example, did you meet Mr Nilsen?
CARL:
In the Black Cap, in Camden.
I was depressed.
I'd just broken up with someone.
JUDGE:
Speak up, please, Mr Stottor.
He was nice to me.
In what sense was he nice?
He bought me drinks.
He asked me about my family.
He asked if you had family?
Yes, and then he invited me back to his flat.
For a drink.
We just drank a lot and then he said
I could go to sleep on his bed
and then he warned me not to get
caught in the zip of the sleeping bag.
Why do you think that was?
Was it perhaps because
he was planning an alibi
in case you managed to escape?
— Objection, My Lord.
Leading.
— JUDGE: Sustained.
GREEN:
Tell us what happened next.
I woke up and I couldn't breathe.
He was behind me and
I could feel something digging into my neck.
The pressure got worse
and the pain was unbearable.
I couldn't see
or speak, or swallow
and I could hear him saying "keep still".
The next thing I knew, I was in water.
In a bath, being pushed down
again and again
and I didn't know where I was
or what was happening
and I swallowed water.
I couldn't resist anymore and I realised
that I was dying.
Thank you, Mr Stottor.
No further questions, My Lord.
LAWRENCE: You have an alter-ego, Mr Stottor,
do you not?
"Khara Le Fox".
A "drag act".
You are a female impersonator.
CARL:
I used to be, yes.
You've already been asked, Mr Stottor
if you could speak up
for the benefit of the court?
Yes.
But
since the attack, I'm
not able to sing anymore.
And you had several relationships with men,
including one which became abusive.
Your night with Nilsen
was therefore not your first
violent homosexual encounter--
My Lord, I must object
to this line of questioning.
A history of deviant encounters
raises the possibility
of a sex game gone wrong, My Lord.
Sustained. Move on, Mr Lawrence.
LAWRENCE:
Now, could you tell us, Mr Stottor
where you woke up
after you had been in the bath?
On the bed.
On the bed,
and was the room warm or cold?
Warm.
— Nilsen had heated the room, had he not?
He had put on all the bars
on the electric fire.
Yes, I suppose so.
And how long after you woke up
did you leave the flat?
Well, I kept
falling asleep, so maybe one or two days.
One or two days?
Did Nilsen keep you under duress?
No, but I was
very confused
and also in a lot of pain.
LAWRENCE:
Did he, in fact, walk you to the tube station
when you wanted to go?
Yes.
LAWRENCE:
This supposedly cold and calculating killer
with every opportunity to "finish the job"
instead let you sleep in a warm bed for days
before seeing you home safely?
In fact, aside from the incident itself
did he not show you more
care and kindness that evening
than anyone else in your life
had done for a very long time?
Yes.
That's what I can't understand.
Is he my murderer or my saviour?
LAWRENCE:
How peculiar
that is.
No further questions, My Lord.
CLERK:
You may step down, Mr Stottor.
PRESS CLAMOUR
— Mr Stottor! Mr Stottor!
You did really well in there. Listen, Carl
I want to go home now.
PRESS CLAMOUR
— CAMERAS CLICK
MAN:
He should have killed you, you queer!
VOICES MUFFLE
MUFFLED SHOUTS
MAN'S VOICE ECHOES:
What are you afraid of?
BRIAN COUGHS
BRIAN:
Mr Jay'?
Uh, I feel I owe you an apology.
You were right. Well
He's not insane.
He knew exactly what he was doing
as much then, as
as he does now.
DISTANT CROWD SHOUTS
CROWD CLAMOURS
CAMERAS CLICK
— REPORTER: Detective, are you confident?
REPORTER 2: Do you think you'll get justice
for the victims, Detective?
GREEN: And in the following days,
you interviewed him at length.
Is that correct?
Yes, we interviewed him
for a total of 31 hours.
And in those 31 hours, did Mr Nilsen
ever mention visions or voices in his head
telling him to commit his crimes?
No.
— Did he ever show any signs at all
of being "out of his mind" so to speak
or mentally unwell in any way?
No, quite the opposite, in fact.
He seemed
calm, collected, in control.
GREEN: Hardly a madman?
— No.
GREEN: Detective Chief Inspector Jay,
could you please tell the court
for how long have you been a police officer?
Almost 23 years.
And based on those years of experience
what is your professional opinion
of Dennis Nilsen?
I've seen criminals in all shapes and sizes.
When they're on remand, they ask
to be visited by all sorts of people.
Priests, rabbis, imams.
I even had a fella who asked for a shaman.
Because most of them
are just wanting forgiveness.
Mr Nilsen's only visitor in the eight months
whilst he was on remand
was a biographer.
In my opinion
he's a remorseless coward who killed
innocent and vulnerable men as they slept.
Thank you, Detective Chief Inspector.
No further questions, My Lord.
Detective Chief Inspector,
you say you interviewed Nilsen
for 31 hours, yes?
That's right.
In all that time of him talking
almost incessantly
did he ever mention planning
the murders at all?
No.
No further questions, My Lord.
CLERK:
You may step down, Officer.
Thank you.
We have an old Latin phrase in the law,
"res ipsa | oquitur".
"The act speaks for itself."
What sort of man kills people
lives with their bodies rotting
under the floorboards
and flushes pieces of them down the lavatory?
Do these seem to you the actions
of a man in his right mind?
If you think, as we invite you to think,
and as the evidence surely shows
that these crimes were not planned
or premeditated
but were due to Nilsen's seriously
abnormal personality and way of thinking
then you will find him not guilty of murder
but guilty of manslaughter
by way of diminished responsibility.
That is the verdict
which we invite you to return.
INDISTINCT CHATTER
What's taking them so long?
Same again? Wee ones?
Ta, Steve.
DOOR OPENS
DOOR CLOSES
CLERK:
Madam Foreman of the jury.
Have you reached verdicts
on which you are all agreed?
No, we have not.
THEY SIGH
JUDGE: Might you reach a verdict
if the court sits until early evening?
I don't believe so, Your Honour.
JUDGE:
Very well. You will retire overnight.
The court will reconvene in the morning
where I will accept a majority verdict.
REPORTER:
More time's now been spent
on what's possibly wrong with Dennis Nilsen
than what he's actually done.
A man who's described himself
as "The Murderer of the Century".
A defence psychiatrist said Niisen
acted as if he were the judge
judging this case of an infamous crime.
He shows off, he really believes he is
the most important person of the century.
The defence expert found another way
of describing Nilsen's mind.
His personality was like his house.
It looked perfectly alright from the outside
but perhaps there was something
of a funny smell about it
and when you looked under the floorboards,
you would find horrors.
GREEN:
The jury is returning.
CLERK:
Would the foreman of the jury please stand?
Madam Foreman, do you have
a majority on your verdicts?
We do.
CLERK: On the charge
of the murder of Stephen Sinclair
how do you find the defendant?
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the murder
of Kenneth Ockenden
how do you find the defendant?
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the murder
of John Howlett
how do you find the defendant?
FOREMAN:
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the murder
of Martyn Duffey
how do you find the defendant?
— FOREMAN: Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the murder
of Billy Sutherland
how do you find the defendant?
FOREMAN:
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the murder
of Malcolm Barlow
how do you find the defendant?
FOREMAN:
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the attempted murder
of Douglas Stewart
how do you find the defendant?
FOREMAN:
Guilty.
CLERK: On the charge of the attempted murder
of Paul Nobbs
how do you find the defendant?
FOREMAN:
Guilty.
JUDGE:
Dennis Andrew Nilsen
your victims were innocent young men
guilty only of accepting your hospitality
whereupon you ended their lives
cruelly and callously
for reasons that will remain known
only to you.
The sentence for murder is fixed in law.
It is imprisonment for life,
and that is the sentence which I pass on you
on each count of this indictment.
Take him down.
DOOR SLAMS
DES: some sort of coat
for the journey back.
Yes.
Mr Jay. Well done.
Went down to the wire at the end,
didn't it?
Must be pleased it's over.
If at any time in the future,
you remember any more names
please write to me.
I promise you'll be the first to know.
I think the jury got it right in the end,
you know? I don't think I'm mad.
If you hadn't caught me that day
be 150, not 15.
I could never have stopped.
OK.
Good luck.
What will you do with it all?
Oh, I don't know.
Chuck most of it probably.
Mr Jay, um
do you mind if I ask you a question?
Go on.
When you first met him,
did you believe him straight away?
Yes, I did.
What went through your mind at that moment?
Well, I thought, um
Honestly?
The first thing I thought was,
" | hope that I'm up to this."
Don't put that in your book.
You have my word.
And about my book
— No, look, it's fine.
We both had our way of looking at this.
Well what will they do with this place?
I don't know, uh
Sell it or rent it out, I'd imagine.
Who'd want to live here? I mean
There's the smell, for one thing.
Do you know the worst thing?
I don't smell it anymore.
I'll see you outside.
BRIAN:
So, how have you been?
DES:
Ah, you know.
Adjusting to being a permanent resident,
and all.
Apart from that, not too bad.
I read your book. My book.
What did you think?
To be honest, Brian,
I found it absolutely terrifying.
But it's good. Much better than I expected.
Of course, I have some thoughts.
Please don't be discouraged
by my observations.
I've lost none of my respect
or admiration for you or your work.
Oh, well, thank you, um
I'm sure it'll be very helpful.
My biggest concern is you didn't name
any of the victims.
No, I wanted to respect their privacy.
I think it's disrespectful not to name them.
I robbed them of their lives,
please don't rob them of their identities.
And the title
"Killing For Company", it's a little
You know?
Should just be "Nilsen".
No.
Why not?
The book is about me after all.
— I'm not going to call it "Nilsen".
This isn't your book.
It's not about you.
It's about how someone like you came to be.
Now, I told you when we first met
that I wasn't going to use grisly
or emotive adjectives,
and I have stuck to my word.
But make no mistake,
this isn't a celebration.
It's a warning.
You know, there were only 12 victims, not 15'?
When I sat in the back of the police car
the night of my arrest
they asked me how many there were,
and I wasn't really sure
so I just gave them a figure,
"15 or 16".
Then three, three of those victims
were invented
just to complement the continuity of evidence
for the police, keep them happy.
Everybody's had a chance to write
their version of my story.
When's it my turn?
I'll send you a copy when it's published.
Come and see me again.