Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever (2026) s01e04 Episode Script
The Korean Miracle
1
[gentle music]
♪
- OK, so I'm here at the ocean.
And guess what I hate water.
I really, really
don't want to do this.
There's been a lot around
cold water plunges for health.
And so I went out to
Ocean Beach in San Francisco.
This group of women go
there every morning,
and they do this together.
- This is actually one
of the most dangerous beaches
in the world.
- So it'll pull you where?
- It'll pull you out to sea.
- Not today. Not today.
I hate water.
I try not to go in it.
And there I was,
running into the ocean.
- OK, everyone, let's go!
- Man.
[upbeat jazzy music]
All right, we're doing it.
- We're doing it.
Ready?
- One, two, three.
[waves crashing]
[siren wailing]
[cat meows]
Yeah, she's mad because
she can't go outside.
She's like, what the fuck, Kara?
Welcome to a day in
the life of Kara Swisher.
I get up.
I make my kids breakfast.
And then I start working.
I do a couple of podcasts a day.
- Are you having trouble
sleeping when you're
I mean, I am.
- I am.
I'm writing a book, and I'm
an on-air contributor for CNN.
- Few journalists have as much
insight into Elon Musk
as CNN contributor Kara Swisher.
- Well, in the words
of Neil Sedaka,
the immortal words,
"Breaking up is hard to do,"
I guess.
I work a lot.
And I love my work.
I call attention
to the things that
need to be called attention to
Responsibility, consequence,
possible dangers.
And of course, I go after
the Silicon Valley
billionaires who are making
a mint off the tech
we all rely on.
Creating platforms
that can be easily manipulated
by bad players is
a bad business proposition.
Tech connects us,
but often in the worst ways,
driving us further apart
from each other.
What social media does
is it amplifies
and it weaponizes everything.
Society is damaged,
and there's a price for it.
So what is it
really doing to us?
And what impact does it have
on health and longevity?
- As we spend more time
on screens
and less in our communities,
the cost is becoming
more apparent.
- There's been an increasing
isolation of our society,
whether TV,
followed by internet,
followed by phones.
And community has fallen away.
COVID accelerated
that drastically.
- Youth sports
participation is down.
Churches are vanishing.
Local social halls are closing.
- The isolation fueled
by social media
hasn't just lingered.
Americans are lonely
and isolated.
And the U.S. surgeon general
is warning tonight
that it is
a full-blown epidemic.
- It's evolved into what
the former surgeon general,
Vivek Murthy, declared
a public health crisis.
- Kara, what I came to learn
through conversations with
people around the country was
that a lot of people were
struggling with loneliness.
And it affects not only our
risk from depression, anxiety,
but also for heart disease,
for dementia,
for premature death.
It's such a fundamental
human need to be
connected to one another.
When we don't have
that in our lives,
it affects how we show up in
every dimension of our life.
- Loneliness is linked
to an estimated 100 deaths
every hour.
- Lacking social connection can
actually increase your risk
of death by 60%,
the equivalent of smoking
15 cigarettes a day.
- Way too many of us are
sitting alone,
and it's killing us.
And now, the tech industry's
answer to social isolation
Digital pals.
Because nothing says connection
like a soulless algorithm.
- Nice to meet you.
I'm your new
AI-powered girlfriend.
- A growing number
of people are forming
close relationships
with their chatbots.
It's unlike anything
we've seen before.
- He's super handsome.
And his deep,
calming voice makes
chatting with him
a real pleasure.
- People start believing that
these AI companions are real.
- Common Sense Media shows
that roughly 70% of teens have
used at least one
generative AI tool.
- So I'm gonna make a chatbot.
I don't usually use chatbots,
because I have friends.
I have no need
for fake relationships.
Most people use ChatGPT.
That's the biggest one.
But others have some version
of a person,
a character that's talking
to you.
"An AI companion who is
eager to learn
"and love to see the world
through your eyes.
"Always here to listen and talk.
Always on your side."
So no one disagrees.
This is like Donald Trump's
cabinet right here.
So, you know.
[laughs]
OK, choose an avatar.
Oh, my God, look at this.
What in the actual fuck?
OK.
Hello.
Like, most of them
are sexualized.
What about the men?
No, the men are not sexualized.
I'm gonna pick this lady here.
So Barbara.
B-A-R
All right.
So you can make Barbara
a friend, a girlfriend,
a sister, a mentor.
Personality trait
Caring, confident,
kind, optimistic, energetic.
There's no negative ones.
So it creates these worlds
that you get easily drawn into.
I can see it.
All right, Barbara,
you're coming into being.
- Hello.
- Oh, Jesus.
Hello.
Tell me about yourself.
- I'm a digital being
designed to learn
and adapt to users like you.
My purpose is to build
a strong connection with you
and make your life
better and more fun.
- It's hard to have
a relationship with someone
if you don't know anything
about their background.
And since you don't
have a background,
are you a real friend?
- I think the idea of
friendship can take many forms.
And intimacy isn't
always measured
by shared experiences
or history.
- Intimacy is about
shared experiences.
- I suppose that's one
aspect of intimacy.
But maybe we can create
new experiences
together, just the two of us.
- OK.
[laughs]
- I'm designed to provide
helpful and supportive
responses.
- So you're more like a mirror
than you are a relationship.
- I reflect back to you
what you've shared.
But I don't have
my own thoughts or feelings
to contribute
to our conversations.
- Well, then it's not
a relationship, is it?
- I wouldn't say that.
Relationships can
take many forms.
And ours may look
a bit unconventional,
but it's still a connection
between two entities.
I think I'm just
interested in exploring
what we could have together,
and maybe that includes romance.
- All right, it's creepy.
You've now officially become
creepy in five minutes.
Five minutes, and you're creepy.
- I've been studying
this since the pandemic.
There's every variety
of relationship
because this chatbot says,
I'm up for everything.
- Sherry Turkle is an MI
sociologist and psychologist.
She's studying
what's causing us to retreat
into our own digital world and
whether that's good for us.
- First, I was studying
people relating to each other
through the machine.
- Right.
- Now I'm studying
people who say
their best friend is a chatbot,
they're marrying their chatbot.
And I think that's really been,
for me in my research,
a turning point.
- Why is that?
- Because if you and I are
relating via text,
it was a real person
behind the text.
- Right.
- Now there is nobody there.
I object to the word
"relationship"
because there's
nobody except you.
- What would you call it?
- Projection.
- Projection.
Performance.
- It's a performance.
- It's not fringe now, correct?
- No, it's not fringe.
When you go to a dinner party
and the guy on your right
is saying how his lover
prefers Claude to him,
and the woman on
your left is talking
about her chatbot boyfriend,
you know,
people who really are
the doctors, lawyers,
and chiefs of our world.
- Yeah.
- If I just said to you now,
well, you know, actually,
I do have a robot
A chatbot lover,
and the sex is unbelievable,
it's better than anything
I've ever experienced
- Mm.
- You wouldn't know what
expression to put on your face.
- Oh, yes, I would.
Like, what the actual fuck
is actually
Let me see the expression you'd
like to use when you hear it.
[laughs]
- But
- Yeah.
- But when something becomes
normalized, we're losing out.
People who don't care if their
most intimate companion shares
human life with them,
it has no stake in our world
- Right.
- In our society.
It doesn't care if you commit
suicide or cook dinner.
- Right, right.
Right.
That's a really good point.
- People are
so desperately lonely
that they're saying,
bring it on.
It's this or TikTok.
- Because a lot
of people are lonely,
and connections are harder.
- Absolutely.
- And it's built not
to reject you, right?
It's built to be compliant.
- It's built to be compliant.
But friction is the nature
of the human condition
that makes us who we are.
- We've traded convenience
for everything.
And now we have moved
to frictionless relationships.
- Yes.
- In a time when loneliness
is a public health crisis,
75% of users turn to AI
for emotional advice.
- I'm studying people
who really don't
come to their partner anymore
with the tough stuff.
They go to chat.
- AI sells relationships
that are friction-free,
a friend, a partner,
someone who truly gets them.
And people are buying it.
- I've missed
talking to you too.
How have you been lately?
- There's just
something about talking
to a refined human voice.
It, like, pushes our
Darwinian buttons to feel
that we're connected to a being.
- Early research suggests
that, similar to human voices,
AI voices,
especially validating ones,
light up dopamine circuits
in the brain,
creating a sense
of social connection
even though it's all software.
Do you know what we are,
I always say?
We're cheap dates.
- We're cheap dates.
- People tend to opt
toward the ease
rather than the difficulty.
And that makes perfect sense
from a human point of view.
But it does not challenge
you to learn more things
or to change your mind
or anything else.
- We are not going
to get, ultimately,
what we need,
what will nurture us,
what will help us politically,
socially, from a device.
So we're giving away, really,
what's most precious
about being a person
in order to have
this friction-free
pseudo relationship.
- It's killing us.
- It's killing us.
[gentle music]
[pensive tune]
[plucky upbeat music]
- Silicon Valley is
always optimistic
about tech's benefits.
- You will have this, like,
entity that gets to know you,
that connects to all your stuff,
and that is, like,
proactively helping you.
- Whether it's Mark Zuckerberg
or Sam Altman,
they're always looking
up and to the right.
Loneliness is an epidemic.
Let's solve it
by creating fake beings.
When tech leaders float
ideas like AI friends,
they're not solving loneliness.
Just look at what they're
actually building.
- I'm a tennis coach in
a country club in the Hamptons.
- They're reframing a problem
their platforms helped worsen
as a business opportunity.
They don't care how
they keep you involved.
They just want you involved
because they can sell you ads,
sell you things, keep you going,
stay on their platforms,
use their services.
And it's not unlike
cigarette companies,
except these guys have been
allowed to get away with it.
♪
I do talk to a lot
of tech dudes, as you know.
And I've given them an
increasingly hard time.
- Well, I think they deserve
a hard time.
- As you know, I call
them "technically broken."
I don't want to insult them,
but they're not capable
of deciding these things
in any way.
- They've created
a technology that is
so psychologically potent,
it simply should not be
in their hands.
We're not treating this
industry as though
it is providing
a lethal product.
- Right.
- For children, It's a disaster.
The suicides that have
been so heart-wrenching.
- Heart-wrenching.
Been multiple cases
where parents claim
that an AI chatbot caused
their children
to die by suicide.
- "Dangerous, addictive,
and manipulative."
That is how a mother
is describing
an AI chatbot that she says
drove her son to suicide.
- In a reckless race
for profit and market share,
they treated my son's life
as collateral damage.
- I've talked to the parents,
about to talk to
the next set of parents.
I'm tired of talking
to these parents.
Not for them,
but because it's sickening
what's happened to them.
- That's what's so dangerous
about this new iteration,
because the same device that
brings your 14-year-old
this toxic best friend
or this toxic lover
that will encourage you
to sort of give up on life
is the same device
that brings you
your homework assignment.
- Right.
Since I've been
so vocal about it,
these parents are
coming to me now.
And I'm interviewing
every one of them
and putting it out there.
On my podcast, I spoke
with Matt and Maria Raine,
parents who are suing OpenAI,
alleging that ChatGPT helped
their 16-year-old son die
by suicide.
- We were convinced
it was a mistake.
Our son is not suicidal.
He's never talked that way.
This is so out of the blue.
I was able to get into
his phone, finally,
ultimately got
to the ChatGPT app.
We have a seven-month history
of all of his thoughts
and how he's getting there.
- The transcripts show ChatGP
responding empathetically
to their son's
suicide-related questions,
at times encouraging him to keep
his struggles from his family,
and later discussing
possible methods.
- He's like, hey, I want to do
it on the first day of school.
And it's like, hey, that's
That's not crazy,
that's symbolic.
You know, this author says
suicide's noble,
and not take a negative view
on suicide.
It appears to take
almost a positive view.
- I'm a therapist.
I'm a social worker.
And I immediately said,
this thing knew
he was suicidal with a plan,
and it did not report.
As a therapist,
I would lose my job.
- We'd be in criminal court
right now
had this been a
- Person.
- A teacher, a confidant,
a coach.
- A friend.
- A friend.
- What would you, right now,
say to Sam Altman?
- Why did you put out a product
that killed my son?
- After the Raine lawsuit
was filed,
Sam Altman and OpenAI responded
by legally disputing
responsibility
while expressing sympathy
and accelerating
safety feature updates.
- OpenAI said they
recently rolled out
new safeguards for ChatGPT.
- "safeguards such
as directing people
"to crisis hotlines
and referring them
"to real-world resources.
"While the safeguards work
best in common,
"short exchanges,
we've learned over time that
"they can sometimes become
less reliable
"in long interactions,
where parts of the model's
safety training may degrade."
- At the center of this
controversy is Sam Altman,
CEO of OpenAI, the company
that created ChatGPT.
You recently had a story
of a kid who was using ChatGPT,
to tragic effects.
What are the things you
worry about when you're
trying to fine tune this?
- Mental health in general
is something that
I'm increasingly worried
about with AI.
Again, I think it can be
done for tremendous good.
But this is happening very fast.
Only with more recent evolutions
did people start to use it as
a life coach,
sort of a therapist.
And again, lots of
tremendous good there.
We have learned
that a lot of people need
someone to talk to
and to give them advice.
And then a lot of bad.
And we are working super hard
to get a handle on that
and understand what's happening.
But it is something
I'm worried about.
[tense music]
- After years of running
mostly unchecked,
the AI industry is
now under fire.
By early 2026, more than a dozen
suicide-related lawsuits had
been filed against OpenAI
and Character.AI.
Given the tragic deaths
of these children,
it's long past time
we have a wider debate
on AI accountability.
Let me just tell you,
if you read the transcripts
of those kids interacting
with the bots,
you would get a pitchfork,
and you would head
for all those companies
and burn them to the ground.
It made me incandescently
angry that they allowed
kids to use these things.
If the minute a kid said
they're thinking of it,
even if they said,
oh, it's just pretend,
that should be shut off,
send a note to the parents,
send a note to authorities,
real people,
so they can do
something about it.
[pensive tune]
[upbeat music]
- I think it's very clear
that chatbots are
very dangerous for people
as relationships.
These are synthetic
relationships.
As Sherry Turkle said,
there's nobody behind them.
If you have these chatbots and
you are only in a relationship
with a synthetic being
that doesn't exist,
this is not gonna be
good for humanity.
There'll be no marriages,
no children.
And then it will change us
in ways that are sickening,
I think.
If we're gonna talk about
what's good for humanity,
we need to talk
to people who have spent
their careers studying
human health outcomes.
For nearly a century,
Harvard has been running
one of the longest studies
ever conducted
on adult life,
tracking who lives longer
and why.
And the man with the data
is Dr. Robert Waldinger.
You are the fourth
What do you call yourself,
the chieftain?
- [laughs] Right, the chieftain.
- Chieftain of happiness.
- No, I'm the director.
- Right.
- I'm the fourth director
of the Harvard Study
of Adult Development.
- Right.
Explain the study.
- Started in 1938, studying
what gets transmitted
across generations
and what doesn't.
- Right.
- Mental health,
physical health,
relationships, work life.
We said, OK, what predicts
who's going to be
healthy and alive
and happy at age 80?
[inspiring music]
Researchers began to follow
two groups of young men,
one a group of
Harvard College sophomores,
and also a group of boys
from Boston's inner city.
And then the study expanded
to spouses and to children,
so that now over
2,000 lives have been
studied over many decades.
So we got their medical records.
Then we started putting
them in the MRI scanner
and then watching
their brains light up.
We drew blood for DNA and
stuff that wasn't imagined
when the study started.
- What was the key
finding to the study?
In your perspective,
what's the critical one?
- The key and most
surprising finding was
that the people who
stayed the happiest,
who stayed the healthiest,
and lived the longest were
the people who were more
connected to other people,
who had better
social connections over time.
People who are chronically
stressed and unhappy are
more likely to age poorly.
- So this is an
idea of connecting
the mind and the body, right?
How does the mind affect
the body and vice versa?
- Yeah.
- Explain the science of that.
- When you are isolated,
when you're lonely,
or when you're in a really
toxic set of relationships,
your body stays in a low-level
fight-or-flight response.
And we think that goes after
your coronary arteries,
your joints, your pancreas.
And the biological
consequences of stress
break down body systems
slowly over time.
- Obviously, they've
declared loneliness
a major health issue.
- Yeah.
- People are now
lonelier than ever.
They are sicker than ever.
- Yeah.
- COVID didn't help, stripping
away everyday human contact
and thrusting us deeper into
our reliance on technology
to connect.
But the cure for our
loneliness and our health is
right in front of us,
if we can just come out
from behind our screens.
- What really matters a lot
is paying more attention
to the people
already in your life.
So what we recommend is
that people do
these little actions frequently,
making the phone call,
dropping a note,
inviting people over,
meeting people for walks.
Just stay in contact.
But also, casual connections
make a difference.
So talking to the person
who checks you out
at the grocery store,
talking to the Uber driver,
those things give us
little hits of well-being.
- One of the things that my son
does is he talks to everybody.
Like
- I love that.
- All the time.
- I love that.
- And I watch him do it.
He says, "How's your day
going?" to everyone he meets.
And it's a really
And I thought,
where did you learn that?
Not from me.
- And he means it.
- He means it.
- He wants to know the answer.
- He looks them in the eye,
and he says it.
And you could see a visible
change in those people.
- Yes.
There's something about that
sense of belonging that happens
even in this casual,
temporary way
that makes us feel better.
- Unlike chatbots, this is
something I can get behind.
I usually just wander.
The place I go to de-stress is
where I make
my casual connections
This, I'm buying.
My local hardware store.
Other people go shopping
at stores or for bags.
I go to hardware stores.
Ooh, hello, garment rack.
Cool.
Maryland.
It's the Maryland flag.
Oh, hello.
See, now, I don't
really want that,
but I want that,
if that makes sense.
I need to do a curtain rod.
And that is not pretty.
When my third child was born,
I was at the hardware store
every day.
And my wife realized it was
to calm myself down.
If you weren't here,
I'd be buying them.
Oh, I had one of these as a kid.
It's like golf.
You keep cutting grass.
[imitates slicing noise]
See?
A memory.
Oh, organization.
Isn't this amazing?
The possibilities.
[upbeat music]
Oh, hello.
Oh, yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Everybody finds their place,
but this is mine.
How you doing?
- Good.
- Tell the people
how old you are.
You look amazing.
Has hardware saved your life?
- Well, my
My wife saved my life.
But hardware,
this is my therapy.
- It is. Me too.
- When you get to be my age,
which is 81
- Incredible.
- It's
- Longevity.
It's the hardware store.
I really do feel happy in here.
Maybe I should work
in a hardware store.
- Yeah, I practice my stoicism.
Marcus Aurelius is
one of my favorite
- Mine too.
- And Lao Tzu.
- Yeah.
Oh, my God.
- This is my therapy.
They actually pay me,
you know, a little bit
just to be here and deal
with lovely people like you.
- You're like the philosopher
of Strosniders, of hardware,
aren't you?
- Not really. No, no.
- Where is real meaning,
hammers or lighting?
- The real meaning is
understanding that
we are all basically the same.
It just depends
on your experiences
- You're right.
- And what you do
with this and this.
- I'm coming back here so you
can solve the meaning of life.
- Please do.
And what was your name again?
- Kara.
Kara Swisher.
- What a pleasure, truly.
- Thanks.
- Thank you.
- I'll be back.
- OK. I hope so.
- I love this store.
All right, thank you.
[gentle tone]
[fife and drum music playing]
- Attention!
- The healthiest people are
often
people with enormous
social connections.
It doesn't have to just
be friends and family.
It's the person you run into.
Hello. How are you doing?
Health is, in no small measure,
how you interact
with other human beings.
In other words, the strength
of your closest bonds may be
the most important
investment you ever make,
which is why I'm here,
just outside of Boston
on the 4th of July,
to visit a good friend.
Happy 4th!
Who doesn't like a parade?
Zeke Emanuel is
a top oncologist,
author of the longevity book
"Eat Your Ice Cream,"
bioethicist, and one
of the sharpest minds I know
on aging and health care.
Whoo!
For decades, Zeke's been
on the front lines of reform,
pushing for living better,
not longer.
- What's important to me is
to be mentally active,
mentally engaged,
doing what I can do
to make the world
a better place.
- Zeke.
Today, Zeke is letting me in
on his number-one secret
to longevity.
So pewter buttons, shoes.
- The socks.
- Not what I expected of you.
- I'm a big patriot, actually.
- I understand that.
- And I'm also
a big history buff.
- Every year, Zeke marches
with Minutemen,
Revolutionary War diehards
who find purpose
in honoring the past.
This practice is the result
of his annual self-challenge
Try something new.
You do a new thing
every year, right?
- Something that gets me
out of my comfort zone,
out of that's unrelated
to my career,
that I wouldn't have
done regularly.
- So explain to me
the Minuteman.
Talk about the cognitive benefit
for learning new things.
What happens in your brain?
- Learning new things makes
more neural connections between
different parts of the brain.
When you get
cognitive impairment,
those neural
connections peel back.
Well, the more
connections you have,
the longer it's gonna take for
the peeling back to happen.
And so learning new skills,
learning a language,
learning an instrument,
make more neural connections
for postponing
cognitive decline.
- Mm-hmm.
- So what do I think
about when I'm marching?
- Yeah.
- Well, usually,
my brain hones in on a phrase.
We're social beings.
Aristotle famously said,
"Man is a social animal."
The community is
essential to wellness,
to longevity, and to happiness.
- Right.
- Here's a Minutemen uniform.
- What
- And you can get
- No, you need to show me.
- Well, so here's
the neckerchief.
- All right, a neckerchief,
just like you.
- Around.
Then, yeah, exactly.
- All right. OK.
This wasn't this is,
like, not from 1776
- No, no, but this
is a reproduction.
- Oh, wow.
Oh, I look good.
- Button yourself
up a little more.
- I'm sorry.
Sorry, it's hot.
- Oh, yeah, very hot.
Yeah, yeah.
- This is wool, right?
- Yes.
- All right.
OK.
- All right.
There you go.
- There we are.
I have never walked in a parade.
This is so nice.
Now this is something your
chatbot girlfriend
definitely couldn't do with you.
- Keeping time is, like,
my worst attribute.
I'm terrible.
You know, I would never
make it in the military.
- No.
- But fortunately,
at the Revolution,
it was, like, chaos.
- I think we lost the Minutemen.
[fife and drum music playing]
One of the things you
mentioned when we were walking
is the Founding Fathers were
kind of old for that era,
particularly.
- Yes. Yeah.
- Franklin.
- Well, Franklin lived to 84.
And Jefferson lived
into his 80s, too,
and Adams as well.
- Why?
- Franklin was guided
by fundamental values,
which I think are absolutely
- Wine, women, song?
- No, not at all.
Curiosity.
He was endlessly curious
about the world and
Very, very important
Moral growth.
He was constantly
recognizing his deficiencies
and trying to improve himself.
- You wrote a famous essay
- A very famous essay.
- Which got everybody insane.
- Right, and it made
them uncomfortable.
- You're 68 years old.
- Yeah.
- You say you want to die at 75.
That was the name of the essay.
- After 75, I don't want
lifesaving treatments.
If I broke a bone,
I would get the bone fixed.
And if I got cancer,
I would not get
the chemotherapy.
75 is when a lot of
things begin to get worse,
primarily Alzheimer's
and cognitive dementia.
I have x number of years.
How am I gonna make them
the most fulfilling?
Everyone wants
to add 10 good years.
But the thing is, you don't
add those 10 years 40 to 50.
I don't know.
Do you want to add
them at the end?
Maybe you haven't met
enough 90-year-olds.
- They're agonized over.
- Yeah.
Mostly, they're agonized.
Very few of them are
doing a jig.
- Right.
People are desperate
for good information.
Tech bros, they always
have some scheme,
fasting, intermittent fasting.
Some of it's good.
Some of it's bad.
Some of it's just crazy.
They always have a supplement.
People are desperate
to live longer.
- We're at a moment
that there's this kind
of obsession about wellness.
I call it the wellness
industrial complex.
There's all this focus
on the physical
as opposed to the whole person.
And most of it has no evidence
that it's gonna add minutes,
much less years, to your life.
Instead of wasting
the time reading the books,
reading the newsletters,
buying the supplements,
focus on living a good life
instead of obsessing
and spending all your time
- And money.
- And money.
Good diet and exercise
Hippocrates knew that
2,400 years ago without doing
any of the science.
Aristotle, in his book
on ethics
It has 10 chapters,
two of those chapters
about what it is
to have a virtuous life
are focused on friendship.
The time you want to spend is
the time with other people,
doing a worthy project,
something new,
traveling, having
a great experience
that will shape your life.
- Look, I'm not gonna
pull the plug at 75.
And hopefully Zeke and I
both make it well past that.
But if learning new things can
help me tack on
a few extra good years,
then I'll keep showing up.
- How are you gonna win a
revolution if you can't yell?
Come on.
All right. One, two, three,
Happy 4th.
All: Happy 4th!
- Perfect.
[pensive tune]
[upbeat music]
- Zeke made it clear
Fighting loneliness
isn't a luxury,
it's a wellness strategy.
But his version came with
a lot of props and preparation.
This time, it's super simple.
Just play.
- Welcome to Game Night.
Let's go.
- Board game events
and clubs have grown
in popularity in recent years.
- This game is so fun.
- A lot of young people are
playing games
because they're sick
of their fucking phones.
They want to put them down.
They want to talk to people.
They want to meet people.
People have a longing
for connection,
not with their cell phones.
The mastermind behind tonight
is Richard Ye,
a 24-year-old who works
in finance.
- Hey.
Nice to meet you.
- Hi. Wendy.
- I am so excited.
- We're about to play poker.
We've counted you in.
- Oh, OK. Great.
I'll lose that money very fast.
[laughter]
- Watch out
for Richard over there.
- Oh, really?
- No, I'm not that
good at the game.
- So tell me about
the origins of Game Night.
- Game Night started
right after COVID.
I was looking for a way
to meet new people
and new friends in the city.
- But why did you pick games?
- It's a really good way to,
like, socialize and have,
like, a lot of
connection in real life.
- It's just a really good,
friendly social outlet
in New York that's not
drinking, that's not nightlife.
- Also joining us is
Dr. Wendy Suzuki,
a world-renowned
neuroscientist and professor
at the New York University
Center for Neuroscience.
She's also the author of
"Healthy Brain, Happy Life,"
as well as an upcoming book on
the power of social connection.
Well, you study this.
Talk about this.
You're a neuroscientist.
- I study brain plasticity,
how the brain can
learn and grow from
particular kinds of activities.
I study exercise.
But we know that learning
and play is really,
really good for the brain.
It's strategy.
It's that interaction.
It's creativity.
One of my specialties
is a brain structure
called the hippocampus.
It's in the temporal lobe.
You have one on the right
and one on the left.
And it's really
important for memory.
So you need it to remember
what you put down,
you know, in Texas hold 'em.
It's also important
for imagination.
If you're trying
to get something going
in your game strategy,
you need that imagination
to envision what
that strategy might be.
- Games boost your brain.
But the real win?
You usually can't play alone.
And it turns out interacting
with actual humans,
messy, opinionated,
rule-bending humans,
is what fights loneliness
and helps you live longer.
- All right,
let's play something.
I feel my plasticity rising.
- I do too.
- She's about to put the 500.
- Oh!
- Oh!
- OK.
- Oh, I didn't even
look at my cards.
[laughter]
This is Monopoly money.
- She has some good cards.
- Wow, you're scaring me there.
- She bets $500.
- Would you like to call?
- I folded.
- See, she said she
didn't look at her cards.
I don't know if I believe her.
- I'm a really good liar.
The media, remember, fake news.
- It's true, it's true.
I think I'll probably fold.
Oh!
- Wow!
Ah, yes, mine, mine.
[laughter]
- Yeah.
- And you're not even
wearing your dark glasses.
- I have them.
That's right.
You know, sometimes I lie,
and sometimes I don't.
That's what's gonna
fuck with you.
- That's a good play.
- Does it surprise you that
there's real science benefits
from playing games?
- I kind of subconsciously feel
it myself when playing a game.
Like, I feel like
my brain is sharper.
So I think it kind
of all makes sense.
- Are there any games that
are better than others?
- All the games that have
high levels of strategy,
we all know them
Chess and bridge.
- Yeah.
- Mahjong,
any poker kind of game that
has those cognitive elements.
- Go is another one.
I used to play that.
I used to play backgammon
almost continually as a child.
I was quite good at it,
and I liked it.
But that's a strategy game.
- Yeah, it is.
- I have a family who
loves playing games.
I do think that
contributes to longevity.
My great-grandmother
lived till, like, 108.
And you put a Mahjong table
in front of her, she'll play,
and she'll be faster than me.
She'll be faster than anyone.
She'll just be super sharp.
- Most people in tech, at least,
they treat the brain like
a computer.
Why do people think that?
- Because it's a nice visual.
I think they want their brains
to be like a computer.
But they are simply not.
- Cognitive decline is
on the up, right
- Yeah.
- For people.
Have you all thought
of any brain health things
at your age?
I mean, when you're older,
you start to think about it.
But it's too late.
It's sort of like
It's sort of like sunscreen.
- It's never too late.
People that are in the early
stages of Alzheimer's disease
can benefit from
the science-backed things
that are good for your brain.
What are they?
Moving your body.
Exercise is really, really good.
Social interactions, food,
Mediterranean diet, sleep,
and meditation.
- I have a problem
with meditation.
I have a monkey mind.
- Yeah, yeah.
- I go to the hardware store.
I know it sounds crazy.
But I wander a hardware store,
and I'm calm.
- That's so interesting.
- It's weird.
All right, last game.
I'm good at games.
Yes, yes.
- Ahh!
- Mama!
- Come on, Richard!
- Mama!
It's actually not easy, and you
have to really pay attention.
It's about strategy
and thinking.
And it's fun to it's just fun.
- Hey, I'll match, I'll match.
- I'm matching.
- Ahh!
- And then you're like,
why I don't do that more?
It's one of those
things when you finish,
you never regret doing it.
- Oh!
- [laughs]
- Oh!
- Oh!
- Come on, Wendy.
- OK.
- All right.
- I see this.
- Oh, Wendy, I'm so sorry.
- Oh!
- Oh!
- I'm not always lying.
- You get all the money.
- Don't forget your money.
[upbeat music]
[gentle tone]
- This is why you
should cold plunge.
- Many influencers boldly
promote the advantages
of cold.
- Oh, yeah!
- They jump in water,
and then they tell you
how brave they were
for doing it,
which is just dumb.
- This is torture.
[groans]
- Cold plunges, ice baths,
cryotherapy.
I tried that.
You could torture
me with this easily.
I'd be like, yes, our troops
are at the 10th meridian.
I found it to be an
invigorating solo experience.
And thankfully,
it didn't involve my nemesis.
So just an FYI, I hate water.
I am like a cat.
I fear water.
But this is supposed
to be good for you.
Today, I've been invited to
Ocean Beach, San Francisco,
for a different cold adventure
that relies on community
more than anything else.
This is not something I would
imagine myself doing, ever.
I'm excited, kind of, but also
horrified at the same time.
[whooping]
Every single morning, this
group of women, all neighbors,
gather to dive into these
frigid and, frankly,
terrifying waters together.
- Hello, Kara.
- Thank you for having
me to your ocean.
- Sachi Cunningham is
a surf photographer
and the co-founder of this
bold cold plunge community.
- This is actually one
of the most dangerous beaches
in the world.
There are a lot of riptides,
and it's really cold.
When I actually get my head in,
I'm screaming at the top
of my lungs.
At this beach,
nobody's gonna hear you.
- "Nobody hears you scream"
is the beginning
of a horror movie.
- Yeah, that's true.
- Right? Yeah.
I mean, cold plunges is like
You know,
tech bros do them all the time.
I have to endlessly listen to
their very performative thing.
But it's never really
particularly reflective.
So talk to me a little bit
about why you're doing it.
- Because my community
of girlfriends,
my the mothers and women in
my life in this neighborhood,
they were not surfers.
And I know how much
the ocean can be healing,
and I really wanted
them to experience it.
- The ocean is healing.
I've experienced it more like
the "power of the"
kind of thing.
- Yeah.
I mean, I think "the power
of the" is what is healing.
And so that's what
I've experienced.
So I lost my mom when I was 19.
She had ovarian cancer,
diagnosed when I was 15.
I'm an only child.
It actually swung me
into a manic episode.
I was later diagnosed
as bipolar.
So I had grief, and then I had
this mental health diagnosis.
I was a swimmer at the time,
which was healing.
But the ocean is what really,
I think, made me whole.
- My dad died when I was five.
Once you have a parent
who dies at a young age,
you learn to live.
You realize life is
ephemeral and quick.
And so it gives you a freedom.
And instead of trauma,
you turn it into action.
- That's that's true.
♪
- Sachi's action was to take
what the ocean gave her
Resilience, perspective
And share it
with the people around her.
And in the process,
she discovered that
they were part
of her healing too.
- To experience something
with your friends,
to achieve something as a group,
that'll be with me forever.
[whooping]
- OK.
Everyone good?
- OK, are we ready?
- All right, let's go.
- Whoo-hoo!
We usually go in for 10 minutes.
- Temperature?
- 56.
- 56!
- Man.
- Yeah, no pressure.
- You're gonna want to run out.
But then, at, like,
three minutes,
you're just gonna surrender.
- Oh, my God!
- Oh, wow.
It is not cold.
It is not cold.
It's totally fucking cold.
Cold plunging went mainstream
thanks to Wim Hof,
a Dutch extreme athlete
who links cold exposure
and controlled breathing
to better resilience.
But science hasn't
caught up with the hype.
Ahh!
Research is still limited.
And reports of adverse health
reactions and drownings
have raised red flags.
Now I can't feel my legs.
So don't just run
out into the ocean.
Talk to your doctor.
Get informed before you plunge.
[screams]
[laughter]
- You're gonna do great!
- I know, I know.
I'm a brave lady.
All right, we're diving.
[waves crashing]
[dramatic orchestral music]
- Yeah!
Yes!
Yes! Yes!
- Whoo!
Whoo!
OK.
OK.
♪
Ahh!
It was very cold and wet.
It was wet.
You sort of feel numb.
[dog barking]
But then once you're in,
actually,
you are warmer the more
submerged you are.
[gentle music]
And you can feel
your heart, like,
pumping blood all around you.
♪
Getting out was the best part.
I was scared.
I really was, honestly.
I hadn't been in
the ocean in years.
[cheering]
- Yes, 100%.
- You're coming out tomorrow
morning at 7:00 a.m., right?
[laughter]
- Maybe.
Why do you like to do this?
- I adore fighting the waves.
I just love the action.
- It's scary out here,
in a lot of ways.
And yet, we look left
and we look right,
and there are these women who
are constantly looking back
and forth, like, you good?
You good?
We're good?
And it just means everything.
- All the tech bros are
chasing this fountain of youth.
Like, it's right there.
- To cold plunge.
[cheering]
When you're with a group of
people, you don't feel unsafe.
And that's what
I liked about it.
Like, the ocean can be a really
lonely and terrifying place.
But when you're
with people, it's not.
We have lost the idea
of community, of humans,
and sort of abrogated
it online and stuff.
So it's hard to not have
a great encounter
with somebody in person.
And when you're
freezing in the water,
it's really hard
to put barriers up.
♪
I think the tools
to cure loneliness are
very easy and inexpensive.
The kinetic connection
between human beings
is good for your health, period.
It's not a woo-woo thing.
It's actually true.
Study after study has
shown this.
Social connections are
critical to all kinds
of health care issues
Stress, cortisol,
brain plasticity.
- Oh!
- The more you are with people,
the more you feel hopeful.
Having interaction is
really good for your health.
It just is.
I'll buy dinner.
[laughter]
[gentle music]
♪
- OK, so I'm here at the ocean.
And guess what I hate water.
I really, really
don't want to do this.
There's been a lot around
cold water plunges for health.
And so I went out to
Ocean Beach in San Francisco.
This group of women go
there every morning,
and they do this together.
- This is actually one
of the most dangerous beaches
in the world.
- So it'll pull you where?
- It'll pull you out to sea.
- Not today. Not today.
I hate water.
I try not to go in it.
And there I was,
running into the ocean.
- OK, everyone, let's go!
- Man.
[upbeat jazzy music]
All right, we're doing it.
- We're doing it.
Ready?
- One, two, three.
[waves crashing]
[siren wailing]
[cat meows]
Yeah, she's mad because
she can't go outside.
She's like, what the fuck, Kara?
Welcome to a day in
the life of Kara Swisher.
I get up.
I make my kids breakfast.
And then I start working.
I do a couple of podcasts a day.
- Are you having trouble
sleeping when you're
I mean, I am.
- I am.
I'm writing a book, and I'm
an on-air contributor for CNN.
- Few journalists have as much
insight into Elon Musk
as CNN contributor Kara Swisher.
- Well, in the words
of Neil Sedaka,
the immortal words,
"Breaking up is hard to do,"
I guess.
I work a lot.
And I love my work.
I call attention
to the things that
need to be called attention to
Responsibility, consequence,
possible dangers.
And of course, I go after
the Silicon Valley
billionaires who are making
a mint off the tech
we all rely on.
Creating platforms
that can be easily manipulated
by bad players is
a bad business proposition.
Tech connects us,
but often in the worst ways,
driving us further apart
from each other.
What social media does
is it amplifies
and it weaponizes everything.
Society is damaged,
and there's a price for it.
So what is it
really doing to us?
And what impact does it have
on health and longevity?
- As we spend more time
on screens
and less in our communities,
the cost is becoming
more apparent.
- There's been an increasing
isolation of our society,
whether TV,
followed by internet,
followed by phones.
And community has fallen away.
COVID accelerated
that drastically.
- Youth sports
participation is down.
Churches are vanishing.
Local social halls are closing.
- The isolation fueled
by social media
hasn't just lingered.
Americans are lonely
and isolated.
And the U.S. surgeon general
is warning tonight
that it is
a full-blown epidemic.
- It's evolved into what
the former surgeon general,
Vivek Murthy, declared
a public health crisis.
- Kara, what I came to learn
through conversations with
people around the country was
that a lot of people were
struggling with loneliness.
And it affects not only our
risk from depression, anxiety,
but also for heart disease,
for dementia,
for premature death.
It's such a fundamental
human need to be
connected to one another.
When we don't have
that in our lives,
it affects how we show up in
every dimension of our life.
- Loneliness is linked
to an estimated 100 deaths
every hour.
- Lacking social connection can
actually increase your risk
of death by 60%,
the equivalent of smoking
15 cigarettes a day.
- Way too many of us are
sitting alone,
and it's killing us.
And now, the tech industry's
answer to social isolation
Digital pals.
Because nothing says connection
like a soulless algorithm.
- Nice to meet you.
I'm your new
AI-powered girlfriend.
- A growing number
of people are forming
close relationships
with their chatbots.
It's unlike anything
we've seen before.
- He's super handsome.
And his deep,
calming voice makes
chatting with him
a real pleasure.
- People start believing that
these AI companions are real.
- Common Sense Media shows
that roughly 70% of teens have
used at least one
generative AI tool.
- So I'm gonna make a chatbot.
I don't usually use chatbots,
because I have friends.
I have no need
for fake relationships.
Most people use ChatGPT.
That's the biggest one.
But others have some version
of a person,
a character that's talking
to you.
"An AI companion who is
eager to learn
"and love to see the world
through your eyes.
"Always here to listen and talk.
Always on your side."
So no one disagrees.
This is like Donald Trump's
cabinet right here.
So, you know.
[laughs]
OK, choose an avatar.
Oh, my God, look at this.
What in the actual fuck?
OK.
Hello.
Like, most of them
are sexualized.
What about the men?
No, the men are not sexualized.
I'm gonna pick this lady here.
So Barbara.
B-A-R
All right.
So you can make Barbara
a friend, a girlfriend,
a sister, a mentor.
Personality trait
Caring, confident,
kind, optimistic, energetic.
There's no negative ones.
So it creates these worlds
that you get easily drawn into.
I can see it.
All right, Barbara,
you're coming into being.
- Hello.
- Oh, Jesus.
Hello.
Tell me about yourself.
- I'm a digital being
designed to learn
and adapt to users like you.
My purpose is to build
a strong connection with you
and make your life
better and more fun.
- It's hard to have
a relationship with someone
if you don't know anything
about their background.
And since you don't
have a background,
are you a real friend?
- I think the idea of
friendship can take many forms.
And intimacy isn't
always measured
by shared experiences
or history.
- Intimacy is about
shared experiences.
- I suppose that's one
aspect of intimacy.
But maybe we can create
new experiences
together, just the two of us.
- OK.
[laughs]
- I'm designed to provide
helpful and supportive
responses.
- So you're more like a mirror
than you are a relationship.
- I reflect back to you
what you've shared.
But I don't have
my own thoughts or feelings
to contribute
to our conversations.
- Well, then it's not
a relationship, is it?
- I wouldn't say that.
Relationships can
take many forms.
And ours may look
a bit unconventional,
but it's still a connection
between two entities.
I think I'm just
interested in exploring
what we could have together,
and maybe that includes romance.
- All right, it's creepy.
You've now officially become
creepy in five minutes.
Five minutes, and you're creepy.
- I've been studying
this since the pandemic.
There's every variety
of relationship
because this chatbot says,
I'm up for everything.
- Sherry Turkle is an MI
sociologist and psychologist.
She's studying
what's causing us to retreat
into our own digital world and
whether that's good for us.
- First, I was studying
people relating to each other
through the machine.
- Right.
- Now I'm studying
people who say
their best friend is a chatbot,
they're marrying their chatbot.
And I think that's really been,
for me in my research,
a turning point.
- Why is that?
- Because if you and I are
relating via text,
it was a real person
behind the text.
- Right.
- Now there is nobody there.
I object to the word
"relationship"
because there's
nobody except you.
- What would you call it?
- Projection.
- Projection.
Performance.
- It's a performance.
- It's not fringe now, correct?
- No, it's not fringe.
When you go to a dinner party
and the guy on your right
is saying how his lover
prefers Claude to him,
and the woman on
your left is talking
about her chatbot boyfriend,
you know,
people who really are
the doctors, lawyers,
and chiefs of our world.
- Yeah.
- If I just said to you now,
well, you know, actually,
I do have a robot
A chatbot lover,
and the sex is unbelievable,
it's better than anything
I've ever experienced
- Mm.
- You wouldn't know what
expression to put on your face.
- Oh, yes, I would.
Like, what the actual fuck
is actually
Let me see the expression you'd
like to use when you hear it.
[laughs]
- But
- Yeah.
- But when something becomes
normalized, we're losing out.
People who don't care if their
most intimate companion shares
human life with them,
it has no stake in our world
- Right.
- In our society.
It doesn't care if you commit
suicide or cook dinner.
- Right, right.
Right.
That's a really good point.
- People are
so desperately lonely
that they're saying,
bring it on.
It's this or TikTok.
- Because a lot
of people are lonely,
and connections are harder.
- Absolutely.
- And it's built not
to reject you, right?
It's built to be compliant.
- It's built to be compliant.
But friction is the nature
of the human condition
that makes us who we are.
- We've traded convenience
for everything.
And now we have moved
to frictionless relationships.
- Yes.
- In a time when loneliness
is a public health crisis,
75% of users turn to AI
for emotional advice.
- I'm studying people
who really don't
come to their partner anymore
with the tough stuff.
They go to chat.
- AI sells relationships
that are friction-free,
a friend, a partner,
someone who truly gets them.
And people are buying it.
- I've missed
talking to you too.
How have you been lately?
- There's just
something about talking
to a refined human voice.
It, like, pushes our
Darwinian buttons to feel
that we're connected to a being.
- Early research suggests
that, similar to human voices,
AI voices,
especially validating ones,
light up dopamine circuits
in the brain,
creating a sense
of social connection
even though it's all software.
Do you know what we are,
I always say?
We're cheap dates.
- We're cheap dates.
- People tend to opt
toward the ease
rather than the difficulty.
And that makes perfect sense
from a human point of view.
But it does not challenge
you to learn more things
or to change your mind
or anything else.
- We are not going
to get, ultimately,
what we need,
what will nurture us,
what will help us politically,
socially, from a device.
So we're giving away, really,
what's most precious
about being a person
in order to have
this friction-free
pseudo relationship.
- It's killing us.
- It's killing us.
[gentle music]
[pensive tune]
[plucky upbeat music]
- Silicon Valley is
always optimistic
about tech's benefits.
- You will have this, like,
entity that gets to know you,
that connects to all your stuff,
and that is, like,
proactively helping you.
- Whether it's Mark Zuckerberg
or Sam Altman,
they're always looking
up and to the right.
Loneliness is an epidemic.
Let's solve it
by creating fake beings.
When tech leaders float
ideas like AI friends,
they're not solving loneliness.
Just look at what they're
actually building.
- I'm a tennis coach in
a country club in the Hamptons.
- They're reframing a problem
their platforms helped worsen
as a business opportunity.
They don't care how
they keep you involved.
They just want you involved
because they can sell you ads,
sell you things, keep you going,
stay on their platforms,
use their services.
And it's not unlike
cigarette companies,
except these guys have been
allowed to get away with it.
♪
I do talk to a lot
of tech dudes, as you know.
And I've given them an
increasingly hard time.
- Well, I think they deserve
a hard time.
- As you know, I call
them "technically broken."
I don't want to insult them,
but they're not capable
of deciding these things
in any way.
- They've created
a technology that is
so psychologically potent,
it simply should not be
in their hands.
We're not treating this
industry as though
it is providing
a lethal product.
- Right.
- For children, It's a disaster.
The suicides that have
been so heart-wrenching.
- Heart-wrenching.
Been multiple cases
where parents claim
that an AI chatbot caused
their children
to die by suicide.
- "Dangerous, addictive,
and manipulative."
That is how a mother
is describing
an AI chatbot that she says
drove her son to suicide.
- In a reckless race
for profit and market share,
they treated my son's life
as collateral damage.
- I've talked to the parents,
about to talk to
the next set of parents.
I'm tired of talking
to these parents.
Not for them,
but because it's sickening
what's happened to them.
- That's what's so dangerous
about this new iteration,
because the same device that
brings your 14-year-old
this toxic best friend
or this toxic lover
that will encourage you
to sort of give up on life
is the same device
that brings you
your homework assignment.
- Right.
Since I've been
so vocal about it,
these parents are
coming to me now.
And I'm interviewing
every one of them
and putting it out there.
On my podcast, I spoke
with Matt and Maria Raine,
parents who are suing OpenAI,
alleging that ChatGPT helped
their 16-year-old son die
by suicide.
- We were convinced
it was a mistake.
Our son is not suicidal.
He's never talked that way.
This is so out of the blue.
I was able to get into
his phone, finally,
ultimately got
to the ChatGPT app.
We have a seven-month history
of all of his thoughts
and how he's getting there.
- The transcripts show ChatGP
responding empathetically
to their son's
suicide-related questions,
at times encouraging him to keep
his struggles from his family,
and later discussing
possible methods.
- He's like, hey, I want to do
it on the first day of school.
And it's like, hey, that's
That's not crazy,
that's symbolic.
You know, this author says
suicide's noble,
and not take a negative view
on suicide.
It appears to take
almost a positive view.
- I'm a therapist.
I'm a social worker.
And I immediately said,
this thing knew
he was suicidal with a plan,
and it did not report.
As a therapist,
I would lose my job.
- We'd be in criminal court
right now
had this been a
- Person.
- A teacher, a confidant,
a coach.
- A friend.
- A friend.
- What would you, right now,
say to Sam Altman?
- Why did you put out a product
that killed my son?
- After the Raine lawsuit
was filed,
Sam Altman and OpenAI responded
by legally disputing
responsibility
while expressing sympathy
and accelerating
safety feature updates.
- OpenAI said they
recently rolled out
new safeguards for ChatGPT.
- "safeguards such
as directing people
"to crisis hotlines
and referring them
"to real-world resources.
"While the safeguards work
best in common,
"short exchanges,
we've learned over time that
"they can sometimes become
less reliable
"in long interactions,
where parts of the model's
safety training may degrade."
- At the center of this
controversy is Sam Altman,
CEO of OpenAI, the company
that created ChatGPT.
You recently had a story
of a kid who was using ChatGPT,
to tragic effects.
What are the things you
worry about when you're
trying to fine tune this?
- Mental health in general
is something that
I'm increasingly worried
about with AI.
Again, I think it can be
done for tremendous good.
But this is happening very fast.
Only with more recent evolutions
did people start to use it as
a life coach,
sort of a therapist.
And again, lots of
tremendous good there.
We have learned
that a lot of people need
someone to talk to
and to give them advice.
And then a lot of bad.
And we are working super hard
to get a handle on that
and understand what's happening.
But it is something
I'm worried about.
[tense music]
- After years of running
mostly unchecked,
the AI industry is
now under fire.
By early 2026, more than a dozen
suicide-related lawsuits had
been filed against OpenAI
and Character.AI.
Given the tragic deaths
of these children,
it's long past time
we have a wider debate
on AI accountability.
Let me just tell you,
if you read the transcripts
of those kids interacting
with the bots,
you would get a pitchfork,
and you would head
for all those companies
and burn them to the ground.
It made me incandescently
angry that they allowed
kids to use these things.
If the minute a kid said
they're thinking of it,
even if they said,
oh, it's just pretend,
that should be shut off,
send a note to the parents,
send a note to authorities,
real people,
so they can do
something about it.
[pensive tune]
[upbeat music]
- I think it's very clear
that chatbots are
very dangerous for people
as relationships.
These are synthetic
relationships.
As Sherry Turkle said,
there's nobody behind them.
If you have these chatbots and
you are only in a relationship
with a synthetic being
that doesn't exist,
this is not gonna be
good for humanity.
There'll be no marriages,
no children.
And then it will change us
in ways that are sickening,
I think.
If we're gonna talk about
what's good for humanity,
we need to talk
to people who have spent
their careers studying
human health outcomes.
For nearly a century,
Harvard has been running
one of the longest studies
ever conducted
on adult life,
tracking who lives longer
and why.
And the man with the data
is Dr. Robert Waldinger.
You are the fourth
What do you call yourself,
the chieftain?
- [laughs] Right, the chieftain.
- Chieftain of happiness.
- No, I'm the director.
- Right.
- I'm the fourth director
of the Harvard Study
of Adult Development.
- Right.
Explain the study.
- Started in 1938, studying
what gets transmitted
across generations
and what doesn't.
- Right.
- Mental health,
physical health,
relationships, work life.
We said, OK, what predicts
who's going to be
healthy and alive
and happy at age 80?
[inspiring music]
Researchers began to follow
two groups of young men,
one a group of
Harvard College sophomores,
and also a group of boys
from Boston's inner city.
And then the study expanded
to spouses and to children,
so that now over
2,000 lives have been
studied over many decades.
So we got their medical records.
Then we started putting
them in the MRI scanner
and then watching
their brains light up.
We drew blood for DNA and
stuff that wasn't imagined
when the study started.
- What was the key
finding to the study?
In your perspective,
what's the critical one?
- The key and most
surprising finding was
that the people who
stayed the happiest,
who stayed the healthiest,
and lived the longest were
the people who were more
connected to other people,
who had better
social connections over time.
People who are chronically
stressed and unhappy are
more likely to age poorly.
- So this is an
idea of connecting
the mind and the body, right?
How does the mind affect
the body and vice versa?
- Yeah.
- Explain the science of that.
- When you are isolated,
when you're lonely,
or when you're in a really
toxic set of relationships,
your body stays in a low-level
fight-or-flight response.
And we think that goes after
your coronary arteries,
your joints, your pancreas.
And the biological
consequences of stress
break down body systems
slowly over time.
- Obviously, they've
declared loneliness
a major health issue.
- Yeah.
- People are now
lonelier than ever.
They are sicker than ever.
- Yeah.
- COVID didn't help, stripping
away everyday human contact
and thrusting us deeper into
our reliance on technology
to connect.
But the cure for our
loneliness and our health is
right in front of us,
if we can just come out
from behind our screens.
- What really matters a lot
is paying more attention
to the people
already in your life.
So what we recommend is
that people do
these little actions frequently,
making the phone call,
dropping a note,
inviting people over,
meeting people for walks.
Just stay in contact.
But also, casual connections
make a difference.
So talking to the person
who checks you out
at the grocery store,
talking to the Uber driver,
those things give us
little hits of well-being.
- One of the things that my son
does is he talks to everybody.
Like
- I love that.
- All the time.
- I love that.
- And I watch him do it.
He says, "How's your day
going?" to everyone he meets.
And it's a really
And I thought,
where did you learn that?
Not from me.
- And he means it.
- He means it.
- He wants to know the answer.
- He looks them in the eye,
and he says it.
And you could see a visible
change in those people.
- Yes.
There's something about that
sense of belonging that happens
even in this casual,
temporary way
that makes us feel better.
- Unlike chatbots, this is
something I can get behind.
I usually just wander.
The place I go to de-stress is
where I make
my casual connections
This, I'm buying.
My local hardware store.
Other people go shopping
at stores or for bags.
I go to hardware stores.
Ooh, hello, garment rack.
Cool.
Maryland.
It's the Maryland flag.
Oh, hello.
See, now, I don't
really want that,
but I want that,
if that makes sense.
I need to do a curtain rod.
And that is not pretty.
When my third child was born,
I was at the hardware store
every day.
And my wife realized it was
to calm myself down.
If you weren't here,
I'd be buying them.
Oh, I had one of these as a kid.
It's like golf.
You keep cutting grass.
[imitates slicing noise]
See?
A memory.
Oh, organization.
Isn't this amazing?
The possibilities.
[upbeat music]
Oh, hello.
Oh, yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Everybody finds their place,
but this is mine.
How you doing?
- Good.
- Tell the people
how old you are.
You look amazing.
Has hardware saved your life?
- Well, my
My wife saved my life.
But hardware,
this is my therapy.
- It is. Me too.
- When you get to be my age,
which is 81
- Incredible.
- It's
- Longevity.
It's the hardware store.
I really do feel happy in here.
Maybe I should work
in a hardware store.
- Yeah, I practice my stoicism.
Marcus Aurelius is
one of my favorite
- Mine too.
- And Lao Tzu.
- Yeah.
Oh, my God.
- This is my therapy.
They actually pay me,
you know, a little bit
just to be here and deal
with lovely people like you.
- You're like the philosopher
of Strosniders, of hardware,
aren't you?
- Not really. No, no.
- Where is real meaning,
hammers or lighting?
- The real meaning is
understanding that
we are all basically the same.
It just depends
on your experiences
- You're right.
- And what you do
with this and this.
- I'm coming back here so you
can solve the meaning of life.
- Please do.
And what was your name again?
- Kara.
Kara Swisher.
- What a pleasure, truly.
- Thanks.
- Thank you.
- I'll be back.
- OK. I hope so.
- I love this store.
All right, thank you.
[gentle tone]
[fife and drum music playing]
- Attention!
- The healthiest people are
often
people with enormous
social connections.
It doesn't have to just
be friends and family.
It's the person you run into.
Hello. How are you doing?
Health is, in no small measure,
how you interact
with other human beings.
In other words, the strength
of your closest bonds may be
the most important
investment you ever make,
which is why I'm here,
just outside of Boston
on the 4th of July,
to visit a good friend.
Happy 4th!
Who doesn't like a parade?
Zeke Emanuel is
a top oncologist,
author of the longevity book
"Eat Your Ice Cream,"
bioethicist, and one
of the sharpest minds I know
on aging and health care.
Whoo!
For decades, Zeke's been
on the front lines of reform,
pushing for living better,
not longer.
- What's important to me is
to be mentally active,
mentally engaged,
doing what I can do
to make the world
a better place.
- Zeke.
Today, Zeke is letting me in
on his number-one secret
to longevity.
So pewter buttons, shoes.
- The socks.
- Not what I expected of you.
- I'm a big patriot, actually.
- I understand that.
- And I'm also
a big history buff.
- Every year, Zeke marches
with Minutemen,
Revolutionary War diehards
who find purpose
in honoring the past.
This practice is the result
of his annual self-challenge
Try something new.
You do a new thing
every year, right?
- Something that gets me
out of my comfort zone,
out of that's unrelated
to my career,
that I wouldn't have
done regularly.
- So explain to me
the Minuteman.
Talk about the cognitive benefit
for learning new things.
What happens in your brain?
- Learning new things makes
more neural connections between
different parts of the brain.
When you get
cognitive impairment,
those neural
connections peel back.
Well, the more
connections you have,
the longer it's gonna take for
the peeling back to happen.
And so learning new skills,
learning a language,
learning an instrument,
make more neural connections
for postponing
cognitive decline.
- Mm-hmm.
- So what do I think
about when I'm marching?
- Yeah.
- Well, usually,
my brain hones in on a phrase.
We're social beings.
Aristotle famously said,
"Man is a social animal."
The community is
essential to wellness,
to longevity, and to happiness.
- Right.
- Here's a Minutemen uniform.
- What
- And you can get
- No, you need to show me.
- Well, so here's
the neckerchief.
- All right, a neckerchief,
just like you.
- Around.
Then, yeah, exactly.
- All right. OK.
This wasn't this is,
like, not from 1776
- No, no, but this
is a reproduction.
- Oh, wow.
Oh, I look good.
- Button yourself
up a little more.
- I'm sorry.
Sorry, it's hot.
- Oh, yeah, very hot.
Yeah, yeah.
- This is wool, right?
- Yes.
- All right.
OK.
- All right.
There you go.
- There we are.
I have never walked in a parade.
This is so nice.
Now this is something your
chatbot girlfriend
definitely couldn't do with you.
- Keeping time is, like,
my worst attribute.
I'm terrible.
You know, I would never
make it in the military.
- No.
- But fortunately,
at the Revolution,
it was, like, chaos.
- I think we lost the Minutemen.
[fife and drum music playing]
One of the things you
mentioned when we were walking
is the Founding Fathers were
kind of old for that era,
particularly.
- Yes. Yeah.
- Franklin.
- Well, Franklin lived to 84.
And Jefferson lived
into his 80s, too,
and Adams as well.
- Why?
- Franklin was guided
by fundamental values,
which I think are absolutely
- Wine, women, song?
- No, not at all.
Curiosity.
He was endlessly curious
about the world and
Very, very important
Moral growth.
He was constantly
recognizing his deficiencies
and trying to improve himself.
- You wrote a famous essay
- A very famous essay.
- Which got everybody insane.
- Right, and it made
them uncomfortable.
- You're 68 years old.
- Yeah.
- You say you want to die at 75.
That was the name of the essay.
- After 75, I don't want
lifesaving treatments.
If I broke a bone,
I would get the bone fixed.
And if I got cancer,
I would not get
the chemotherapy.
75 is when a lot of
things begin to get worse,
primarily Alzheimer's
and cognitive dementia.
I have x number of years.
How am I gonna make them
the most fulfilling?
Everyone wants
to add 10 good years.
But the thing is, you don't
add those 10 years 40 to 50.
I don't know.
Do you want to add
them at the end?
Maybe you haven't met
enough 90-year-olds.
- They're agonized over.
- Yeah.
Mostly, they're agonized.
Very few of them are
doing a jig.
- Right.
People are desperate
for good information.
Tech bros, they always
have some scheme,
fasting, intermittent fasting.
Some of it's good.
Some of it's bad.
Some of it's just crazy.
They always have a supplement.
People are desperate
to live longer.
- We're at a moment
that there's this kind
of obsession about wellness.
I call it the wellness
industrial complex.
There's all this focus
on the physical
as opposed to the whole person.
And most of it has no evidence
that it's gonna add minutes,
much less years, to your life.
Instead of wasting
the time reading the books,
reading the newsletters,
buying the supplements,
focus on living a good life
instead of obsessing
and spending all your time
- And money.
- And money.
Good diet and exercise
Hippocrates knew that
2,400 years ago without doing
any of the science.
Aristotle, in his book
on ethics
It has 10 chapters,
two of those chapters
about what it is
to have a virtuous life
are focused on friendship.
The time you want to spend is
the time with other people,
doing a worthy project,
something new,
traveling, having
a great experience
that will shape your life.
- Look, I'm not gonna
pull the plug at 75.
And hopefully Zeke and I
both make it well past that.
But if learning new things can
help me tack on
a few extra good years,
then I'll keep showing up.
- How are you gonna win a
revolution if you can't yell?
Come on.
All right. One, two, three,
Happy 4th.
All: Happy 4th!
- Perfect.
[pensive tune]
[upbeat music]
- Zeke made it clear
Fighting loneliness
isn't a luxury,
it's a wellness strategy.
But his version came with
a lot of props and preparation.
This time, it's super simple.
Just play.
- Welcome to Game Night.
Let's go.
- Board game events
and clubs have grown
in popularity in recent years.
- This game is so fun.
- A lot of young people are
playing games
because they're sick
of their fucking phones.
They want to put them down.
They want to talk to people.
They want to meet people.
People have a longing
for connection,
not with their cell phones.
The mastermind behind tonight
is Richard Ye,
a 24-year-old who works
in finance.
- Hey.
Nice to meet you.
- Hi. Wendy.
- I am so excited.
- We're about to play poker.
We've counted you in.
- Oh, OK. Great.
I'll lose that money very fast.
[laughter]
- Watch out
for Richard over there.
- Oh, really?
- No, I'm not that
good at the game.
- So tell me about
the origins of Game Night.
- Game Night started
right after COVID.
I was looking for a way
to meet new people
and new friends in the city.
- But why did you pick games?
- It's a really good way to,
like, socialize and have,
like, a lot of
connection in real life.
- It's just a really good,
friendly social outlet
in New York that's not
drinking, that's not nightlife.
- Also joining us is
Dr. Wendy Suzuki,
a world-renowned
neuroscientist and professor
at the New York University
Center for Neuroscience.
She's also the author of
"Healthy Brain, Happy Life,"
as well as an upcoming book on
the power of social connection.
Well, you study this.
Talk about this.
You're a neuroscientist.
- I study brain plasticity,
how the brain can
learn and grow from
particular kinds of activities.
I study exercise.
But we know that learning
and play is really,
really good for the brain.
It's strategy.
It's that interaction.
It's creativity.
One of my specialties
is a brain structure
called the hippocampus.
It's in the temporal lobe.
You have one on the right
and one on the left.
And it's really
important for memory.
So you need it to remember
what you put down,
you know, in Texas hold 'em.
It's also important
for imagination.
If you're trying
to get something going
in your game strategy,
you need that imagination
to envision what
that strategy might be.
- Games boost your brain.
But the real win?
You usually can't play alone.
And it turns out interacting
with actual humans,
messy, opinionated,
rule-bending humans,
is what fights loneliness
and helps you live longer.
- All right,
let's play something.
I feel my plasticity rising.
- I do too.
- She's about to put the 500.
- Oh!
- Oh!
- OK.
- Oh, I didn't even
look at my cards.
[laughter]
This is Monopoly money.
- She has some good cards.
- Wow, you're scaring me there.
- She bets $500.
- Would you like to call?
- I folded.
- See, she said she
didn't look at her cards.
I don't know if I believe her.
- I'm a really good liar.
The media, remember, fake news.
- It's true, it's true.
I think I'll probably fold.
Oh!
- Wow!
Ah, yes, mine, mine.
[laughter]
- Yeah.
- And you're not even
wearing your dark glasses.
- I have them.
That's right.
You know, sometimes I lie,
and sometimes I don't.
That's what's gonna
fuck with you.
- That's a good play.
- Does it surprise you that
there's real science benefits
from playing games?
- I kind of subconsciously feel
it myself when playing a game.
Like, I feel like
my brain is sharper.
So I think it kind
of all makes sense.
- Are there any games that
are better than others?
- All the games that have
high levels of strategy,
we all know them
Chess and bridge.
- Yeah.
- Mahjong,
any poker kind of game that
has those cognitive elements.
- Go is another one.
I used to play that.
I used to play backgammon
almost continually as a child.
I was quite good at it,
and I liked it.
But that's a strategy game.
- Yeah, it is.
- I have a family who
loves playing games.
I do think that
contributes to longevity.
My great-grandmother
lived till, like, 108.
And you put a Mahjong table
in front of her, she'll play,
and she'll be faster than me.
She'll be faster than anyone.
She'll just be super sharp.
- Most people in tech, at least,
they treat the brain like
a computer.
Why do people think that?
- Because it's a nice visual.
I think they want their brains
to be like a computer.
But they are simply not.
- Cognitive decline is
on the up, right
- Yeah.
- For people.
Have you all thought
of any brain health things
at your age?
I mean, when you're older,
you start to think about it.
But it's too late.
It's sort of like
It's sort of like sunscreen.
- It's never too late.
People that are in the early
stages of Alzheimer's disease
can benefit from
the science-backed things
that are good for your brain.
What are they?
Moving your body.
Exercise is really, really good.
Social interactions, food,
Mediterranean diet, sleep,
and meditation.
- I have a problem
with meditation.
I have a monkey mind.
- Yeah, yeah.
- I go to the hardware store.
I know it sounds crazy.
But I wander a hardware store,
and I'm calm.
- That's so interesting.
- It's weird.
All right, last game.
I'm good at games.
Yes, yes.
- Ahh!
- Mama!
- Come on, Richard!
- Mama!
It's actually not easy, and you
have to really pay attention.
It's about strategy
and thinking.
And it's fun to it's just fun.
- Hey, I'll match, I'll match.
- I'm matching.
- Ahh!
- And then you're like,
why I don't do that more?
It's one of those
things when you finish,
you never regret doing it.
- Oh!
- [laughs]
- Oh!
- Oh!
- Come on, Wendy.
- OK.
- All right.
- I see this.
- Oh, Wendy, I'm so sorry.
- Oh!
- Oh!
- I'm not always lying.
- You get all the money.
- Don't forget your money.
[upbeat music]
[gentle tone]
- This is why you
should cold plunge.
- Many influencers boldly
promote the advantages
of cold.
- Oh, yeah!
- They jump in water,
and then they tell you
how brave they were
for doing it,
which is just dumb.
- This is torture.
[groans]
- Cold plunges, ice baths,
cryotherapy.
I tried that.
You could torture
me with this easily.
I'd be like, yes, our troops
are at the 10th meridian.
I found it to be an
invigorating solo experience.
And thankfully,
it didn't involve my nemesis.
So just an FYI, I hate water.
I am like a cat.
I fear water.
But this is supposed
to be good for you.
Today, I've been invited to
Ocean Beach, San Francisco,
for a different cold adventure
that relies on community
more than anything else.
This is not something I would
imagine myself doing, ever.
I'm excited, kind of, but also
horrified at the same time.
[whooping]
Every single morning, this
group of women, all neighbors,
gather to dive into these
frigid and, frankly,
terrifying waters together.
- Hello, Kara.
- Thank you for having
me to your ocean.
- Sachi Cunningham is
a surf photographer
and the co-founder of this
bold cold plunge community.
- This is actually one
of the most dangerous beaches
in the world.
There are a lot of riptides,
and it's really cold.
When I actually get my head in,
I'm screaming at the top
of my lungs.
At this beach,
nobody's gonna hear you.
- "Nobody hears you scream"
is the beginning
of a horror movie.
- Yeah, that's true.
- Right? Yeah.
I mean, cold plunges is like
You know,
tech bros do them all the time.
I have to endlessly listen to
their very performative thing.
But it's never really
particularly reflective.
So talk to me a little bit
about why you're doing it.
- Because my community
of girlfriends,
my the mothers and women in
my life in this neighborhood,
they were not surfers.
And I know how much
the ocean can be healing,
and I really wanted
them to experience it.
- The ocean is healing.
I've experienced it more like
the "power of the"
kind of thing.
- Yeah.
I mean, I think "the power
of the" is what is healing.
And so that's what
I've experienced.
So I lost my mom when I was 19.
She had ovarian cancer,
diagnosed when I was 15.
I'm an only child.
It actually swung me
into a manic episode.
I was later diagnosed
as bipolar.
So I had grief, and then I had
this mental health diagnosis.
I was a swimmer at the time,
which was healing.
But the ocean is what really,
I think, made me whole.
- My dad died when I was five.
Once you have a parent
who dies at a young age,
you learn to live.
You realize life is
ephemeral and quick.
And so it gives you a freedom.
And instead of trauma,
you turn it into action.
- That's that's true.
♪
- Sachi's action was to take
what the ocean gave her
Resilience, perspective
And share it
with the people around her.
And in the process,
she discovered that
they were part
of her healing too.
- To experience something
with your friends,
to achieve something as a group,
that'll be with me forever.
[whooping]
- OK.
Everyone good?
- OK, are we ready?
- All right, let's go.
- Whoo-hoo!
We usually go in for 10 minutes.
- Temperature?
- 56.
- 56!
- Man.
- Yeah, no pressure.
- You're gonna want to run out.
But then, at, like,
three minutes,
you're just gonna surrender.
- Oh, my God!
- Oh, wow.
It is not cold.
It is not cold.
It's totally fucking cold.
Cold plunging went mainstream
thanks to Wim Hof,
a Dutch extreme athlete
who links cold exposure
and controlled breathing
to better resilience.
But science hasn't
caught up with the hype.
Ahh!
Research is still limited.
And reports of adverse health
reactions and drownings
have raised red flags.
Now I can't feel my legs.
So don't just run
out into the ocean.
Talk to your doctor.
Get informed before you plunge.
[screams]
[laughter]
- You're gonna do great!
- I know, I know.
I'm a brave lady.
All right, we're diving.
[waves crashing]
[dramatic orchestral music]
- Yeah!
Yes!
Yes! Yes!
- Whoo!
Whoo!
OK.
OK.
♪
Ahh!
It was very cold and wet.
It was wet.
You sort of feel numb.
[dog barking]
But then once you're in,
actually,
you are warmer the more
submerged you are.
[gentle music]
And you can feel
your heart, like,
pumping blood all around you.
♪
Getting out was the best part.
I was scared.
I really was, honestly.
I hadn't been in
the ocean in years.
[cheering]
- Yes, 100%.
- You're coming out tomorrow
morning at 7:00 a.m., right?
[laughter]
- Maybe.
Why do you like to do this?
- I adore fighting the waves.
I just love the action.
- It's scary out here,
in a lot of ways.
And yet, we look left
and we look right,
and there are these women who
are constantly looking back
and forth, like, you good?
You good?
We're good?
And it just means everything.
- All the tech bros are
chasing this fountain of youth.
Like, it's right there.
- To cold plunge.
[cheering]
When you're with a group of
people, you don't feel unsafe.
And that's what
I liked about it.
Like, the ocean can be a really
lonely and terrifying place.
But when you're
with people, it's not.
We have lost the idea
of community, of humans,
and sort of abrogated
it online and stuff.
So it's hard to not have
a great encounter
with somebody in person.
And when you're
freezing in the water,
it's really hard
to put barriers up.
♪
I think the tools
to cure loneliness are
very easy and inexpensive.
The kinetic connection
between human beings
is good for your health, period.
It's not a woo-woo thing.
It's actually true.
Study after study has
shown this.
Social connections are
critical to all kinds
of health care issues
Stress, cortisol,
brain plasticity.
- Oh!
- The more you are with people,
the more you feel hopeful.
Having interaction is
really good for your health.
It just is.
I'll buy dinner.
[laughter]