The Enfield Poltergeist (2023) s01e04 Episode Script
Entanglement
1
You're hurting me.
You're hurting me. You're hurting me.
- What's the matter?
- I can't tell you.
This time, Janet was thrown
right out of the room, onto the stairs.
I saw you banging on the floor, Janet.
I didn't bang.
I saw you bang.
Janet. Can you hear me, Janet?
Janet, can you hear me?
One time when we s--
Why didn't you spit
the water out until I told you?
No, I don't want you
to do anything until I tell you.
Janet. Janet. Janet.
Janet. Can you hear me? Janet?
Can you hear me, Janet?
All right, Janet. Well done.
All right, now, Janet.
There's a good girl.
There's a good girl. All right.
I blamed myself a lot.
The fact that I went into care alone
and Margaret and Bill were still there.
It was my fault
because I was the epicenter.
Why me?
Why did it happen to me, our family? Why?
I've never actually done
that many interviews or documentaries.
And I was always very dubious
about doing any of them
'cause it does bring it all back again,
and there's all the emotions
that I've tried to escape all my life.
Yeah, I remember that one.
- The look of terror on Mum's face.
- Yeah, I remember.
- That one.
- Yeah.
When I was pulled out of bed.
And that distressed me
to see you like that.
That distressed me terrible.
Yeah, I remember
being turned off the settee.
Tipped upside down.
- It just turned over. And--
- Yeah.
And she'd run off it,
and then it'd be over on the--
tip up on the floor.
Does feel strange though.
Like going back in time.
Really does. All those years ago.
Looking back now,
something could come into our lives,
into our house.
Could it have been something
that drew energy from me?
June, 1978.
Janet has now spent six weeks
in a home run by nuns.
We are redoubling our efforts to help her,
but none of the doctors, psychiatrists,
or psychologists who have
witnessed her altered states
can agree on their diagnosis.
The psychiatrist consulted
by the local doctor
suggested we simply go away
and leave the family alone.
Maurice was a very compassionate man.
And there's no doubt
that he cared about the family.
That's important because,
as a psychical researcher,
you probably want the phenomena
to go on as long as possible.
You know, this doesn't often happen,
so you're quite keen to--
to sort of get evidence for this.
On the other hand,
as a human being, you're dealing--
you realize you're dealing
with people who are going
through a very traumatic state.
And so, from that point of view,
you want the phenomena to stop.
I was having these bad nightmares.
Nights used to be so long.
When I look back now,
I don't know how I stayed sane.
I just wanted to run away.
I do remember being concerned about Janet.
Just mentally and physically, emotionally.
To be screaming, hysterical,
to have that amount of tension,
she needed help.
July the 26th, 1978.
We have finally got Janet admitted
to the Maudsley Hospital
under the care of Dr. Peter Fenwick,
head of the neurological department.
Guy Playfair said to me,
"We've got this fascinating phenomena
going on at Enfield. A poltergeist.
The girl, Janet, goes into strange,
contorted positions.
And do you think that she has epilepsy?"
And so, I originally thought,
"Well, poltergeists and epilepsy?
Doubt it.
But it's certainly worth
looking at Janet."
I thought I was going home.
So, I was very surprised to be going
to stay in a hospital.
Remember, it's 47 years ago,
but I do have Janet's permission
to talk about her on camera.
I'm a neuropsychiatrist,
which means "neuro" understand the brain--
-"psychiatrist"-- understand behavior.
- If you looking at this
People who had disorders
of behavior used to be referred to me.
I was also interested in consciousness.
And so, my interests were wider
than just simple reductionist science.
What I was wanting to know is
whether you could
separate poltergeist effects,
epilepsy, and behavioral changes
in the person.
We ran a whole lot of tests
on her to see, particularly,
if there was an organic basis
for her behavior.
They wanted to see what was going on
in me brain.
When you're that young,
you know, you think,
"Psychiatry, what does that really mean?"
You know?
People think, "It's madness.
They've gone into there
because they're mad."
But there's different reasons.
Is it something in the body?
Or is it in the brain?
Or is it something that's happened
from the past?
All of the physical tests
we did were normal.
And so we then wondered
about the behavioral component.
What I did know about poltergeists
at this time was
that they tended to occur,
usually, where there was
a very high tension in the family.
I haven't really listened
to the tapes up until now.
But it's like I'm meant to go back
'cause it's gonna teach me something.
Why do you think it's chosen you?
Why do you think it's happening to you?
Well, I can't directly answer that,
but there's been a lot of distress
in the house before all this happened.
I think it goes right back
to when her father was here.
And I mean,
he wouldn't let those kids play.
He wouldn't let them have any toys out.
If there was a row outside,
he used to bring them in.
He's been gone two years this month--
the 14th of this month.
I was in a very low state,
and I did feel very depressed
after Mr. Hodgson went.
It all sort of bounded back on me,
all the distress.
I suddenly realized how we'd been living
and how hard it had been.
And it all built up, I suppose.
I think, between them,
they've bottled up such a lot.
That might have had something
to do with it.
That's the only reason I can think of.
Looking back now,
there was a lot
of stress and tension in the family.
The upset of Johnny going away to school.
Mum and Dad had divorced.
I remember before I was ten,
my parents would regularly have rows.
And one day,
I don't know what my mum done--
She went to open the front door,
and he shut her arm in it.
I remember this very well.
And I remember things
getting a bit overheated,
and they were arguing
and shouting at each other.
And I remember, my father sat me down,
and he said to me,
"I won't be living here anymore, you know.
We're getting divorced, Mum and I."
Our lives changed then.
And then I don't remember
much more childhood.
It did really affect me.
I mean, my dad he was hotheaded.
He had no patience.
But then I cried when he left.
It was like there was an absence.
Something was missing.
Did hit me hard, actually. It did. Yeah.
That's what I'm saying, right?
You go in the small bed, Margaret.
Trust you to say that.
There is a great deal
of emotional stress in the family.
you come back
from the shops this afternoon.
But how is stress capable
of physically affecting its surroundings?
How does all that fit into the picture?
The chair,
which was standing by Janet's bed.
Mum, he's tricking me.
Christ! It's the ghost!
And there was a chest of drawers
moving towards the door.
Bash the window!
What's happened?
Now the chair gone over.
It just tipped over the settee
in front of us.
I've never used to like
going upstairs on me own.
It was like there was something there.
It was a feeling like it was behind me.
Now, tell me, what are you doing here,
and why are you here?
Shall I tell you really who I am?
Really?
Some people have to see it to believe it.
But once you've experienced it,
you know that it's real.
27th, 1978, in the Maudsley Hospital.
Well, Janet, come over here
and stick your mouth near the microphone
- so we can hear you.
- Yeah.
That's all right.
Tell me--
You're saying when you're on your own,
you're not-- you're not--
Nothing happens when you're on your own.
I can guarantee that nothing
will happen now.
- Really?
- Just got that feeling.
But when you're with Margaret
and your mum,
- you feel this sort of force building up?
- Builds up, yeah.
Does it? What does it feel like? I mean--
Yeah, and in the end mum winds up
by shouting at me over it,
'cause it's happening round me.
That's why I say the energy comes to me.
It all builds up around me.
I'd like to sleep in the little room
on me own, you know what I mean?
You'd like to sleep on your own
from now on?
Yeah.
- What, on your own, without anybody?
- Yeah.
I could decorate me own bedroom
and everything.
Yes. You should do that.
That's very important actually.
You ought to do that as soon
as you get home.
- Yeah. I was gonna get a paintbrush--
- Just get a brush and go
I've got a radio.
That'll keep me company of a night.
- Yeah.
- What, on your own, without anybody?
Strange, sort of,
listening to me at that age.
I seem quite determined. I think, "Wow.
Really? Was this me?"
Think you'll forget all
about your dad soon?
- You know, when you grow up and--
- He's been gone two years now.
You'll have lots of boyfriends
before long.
You won't remember him.
But we gotta stop this damn thing,
you know, now.
- It's not doing you any good.
- I know. That's what Mum said.
You know,
you're gonna be quite famous one day.
There's no doubt about Janet's relief
in getting away from the family.
She immediately relaxed
and became really a quite different girl
after she'd been with us for a bit.
We had her in there for six weeks,
and we found a not-unusual teenager.
Mrs. Hodgson is talking
about her interview
- with Dr. Fenwick.
- Fenwick.
- He asked you how Janet was.
- Yeah.
Just tell me that again, will you?
And I turned round, and I said,
Janet has been a lot better
since she's been away from the house,
which she has,
- and she looked a lot better.
- Yeah.
Can I get in here?
My wife will tell you
the next time you ask her
that she was amazed
when she saw Janet away.
She said that-- the way she described it--
cowed look had gone.
- You know what she's talking about.
- She looked very cowed before she left.
Very cowed. She said it's completely gone.
Yeah. Well, I also said to him--
I must bear in mind,
and I must admit
that Janet is a moody child.
- And she's a very restless child.
- Yeah.
But I'll tell you what I think--
and I'm gonna be quite honest about it--
she's my daughter,
and I miss her very much,
but I don't think she should
come back here.
With me, like,
I was the black sheep, you know?
She didn't really want me
'cause I was trouble.
I was part of the problem
while it was happening.
When I came out the Maudsley,
I was picked up by the social worker.
And he was taking me
around children's homes,
trying to find another
children's home for me.
He couldn't find one. They were all full.
Okay
And in the end, he took me back to Mum.
And Mum's face,
I could tell she didn't really
want me home.
I think she was fearful that it
would all really start up badly again
because I was back there.
This is the
In this program,
we're going to explore an area
where our common sense notions
aren't going to be much help to us at all.
How does the uncertainty principle
square up with the everyday world?
When I got home, I just needed peace
and to-- just to be left alone, really.
Clear off. Get out. We've had enough.
We've had enough of you.
Go back where you came from.
I would like, for one moment,
to contemplate the word "truth."
Where does the truth lie?
Only in the everyday decipherings
of our five senses?
Or might it rest in the depths
of an unknown dimension,
beyond our understanding?
Hello, Mr. Grosse.
It's Sunday, October the 8th, 1978.
And I'm just going to
make a copy for you--
for your private collection--
of the tape I made with Peter Liefhebber
and Dono Gmelig-Meyling.
I thought this most remarkable story
needed to be got down on tape at once,
so I went round
and I made the tape which follows.
I won't comment on it yet
until you've had time to think it over.
I think you'll find these
coincidences quite interesting.
You'll notice that I didn't offer
any information concerning you personally.
Before the investigation,
my father had suffered
a huge emotional loss.
And Guy-- because he was a spiritualist,
because he believed in those things--
couldn't get out
of his mind a potential connection.
All right. I'll start the copy now.
Friday, October the 6th, 1978.
Belgravia Hotel, to see Peter Liefhebber.
- Right. Here we are in the hotel, Peter.
- Yes.
Well, I wonder, could you tell me roughly
what you told me on the phone?
What exactly happened?
On Wednesday evening,
we met Maurice Grosse for the first time.
- Yes.
- And when he came in the car,
Dono and I felt the same thing.
An enormous tension again,
the same tenseness we felt
when we first arrived
in the Hodgson's house.
And he said to me,
"There is something with Maurice--
There is something in his aura.
I can't figure out now what is there,
but there is something.
Something very close,
connected to the whole affair."
And he didn't say that about me,
for instance?
No. No, no.
Dono said that there was something
very close in his family
related with the affair.
It was quite obvious that
there should have been
also some poltergeist phenomena
within the neighborhood of Maurice Grosse.
Well, I didn't--
Because of the shape of his aura.
And that Monday evening,
Dono had an out-of-the-body experience
in the house of the Hodgsons.
- He can do things like that at will.
- Yes.
And on the astral level,
he saw a girl of about 24 years old.
She had a rather long face
and rather brown or dark hair
or something like that,
but it was rather vague.
It was just an impression, you know.
All those things consist merely
of impressions.
Dono told me that he thought
that the girl had been in hospital.
That there was something with her head.
There was something wrong with her head?
Something with her head, yes.
There was some damage to her brains
or something like that.
- Damage?
- Yes.
My sister was a character.
My sister lived life to the full.
She was Janet Esther Grosse,
and she was 22 years old.
She was 22 years old. No age at all.
My sister was killed
in a motorcycle accident in Cardiff.
And it happened on my birthday.
I received a visit from the police,
I think, 2:30 in the morning,
telling me that I should go
to Cardiff Royal Infirmary
because that's where she was.
Janet was lying on the hospital bed
with her head wrapped
in bandages, and two black eyes.
She'd suffered a major trauma to her head.
And we all sat there.
And it was a tragic day.
And we eventually
switched the machine off,
and my sister passed away.
And around that awful event
were some extraordinary things
that happened.
Call them coincidence, call them fate,
call them whatever you like.
The afternoon before,
when my sister had her accident,
my mother was on the beach.
And at that time, 4:20 in the afternoon,
she felt seriously ill,
so ill that my father wanted
to call an ambulance to the beach.
A clock that had always worked
stopped at the precise time, 4:20.
It was the summer of 1976
when it didn't rain for months,
and there was a huge water shortage.
And underneath my sister's
bedroom window is the roof
of the extension to the kitchen.
That roof was soaking wet.
No other roofs anywhere around were wet.
Just that roof.
But I think the most extraordinary event
happened to me.
After my sister died,
on the way back, on the train,
I realized that my sister would've
sent me a birthday card.
And that birthday card
would almost certainly
be on the mat at home when I got in.
Janet's birthday card to Richard,
August the 5th, 1976.
I was absolutely amazed by what I saw.
On the front was a person
with a head wrapped in bandages,
two black eyes, in a hospital gown.
"I was going to buy you a bottle
of toilet water for your birthday
but the lid fell on my head.
Happy birthday."
A strange, strange wording for a card.
But what was even stranger was
that my sister had written
in her own hand an arrow pointing to
the word "head."
And it went down, and it said,
"And there won't be much left
of that soon anyway. Love, Jan."
How could she have known,
but without knowing?
How could--
How could something like this happen?
It's
It's too unreal.
All these phenomena, and the fact
that they all happened at the same time,
made us feel that there
was something going on.
Janet. Janet.
Poltergeist.
Something that we couldn't explain.
Are you listening, Janet?
P-O-L-T-E-R-G-E-I-S-T.
Poltergeist.
It changed him completely.
Losing a child
Time helps, but you never get over it.
Happens.
I often wonder what would have happened
had she lived,
how different our lives would have been.
Your life would have been quite different.
You realize that, don't you?
My life would have been quite different
because it was the extraordinary things
that happened when she--
around about the time she died.
Extraordinary psychic thing--
what I consider to be psychic,
and so did you--
that happened, that sort of
launched me onto this determination
to try and find out more
about what happens when you-- you die,
and what psychic research is all about.
If you think of coincidence,
then how extraordinary not only
is that set of circumstances--
But my father goes to the Society
and says, "I'd like a case,"
and the very first case that comes along
turns out to be arguably
the most important case in
the history of paranormal activity.
Did you-- Did you die in this house?
Did you pass on?
You did pass on in this house?
Now why are you here? Are you unhappy?
Now, I often wonder, you know,
strange it may seem,
it could be coincidence.
It may not have been
that his daughter's name was Janet.
But I think he felt that, at the time--
like he was put in touch
with us for a reason.
You did pass on in this house?
Now why are you here? Are you unhappy?
Christ! It's the ghost! It's the ghost!
Janet. Can you hear me, Janet?
Because he'd lost his daughter,
you could argue that, you know,
he had a-- a motive,
an incentive to try and find evidence.
But the question of coincidences
or synchronicity,
this domain of experience is fundamental.
If you yourself have had an experience,
that is what's going to make you take
this phenomena seriously.
Certainly, for me,
I've had experiences which--
which have, you know,
made me feel these phenomena are g--
some of these phenomena are genuine.
The whole point about psychical research
is it does suggest
that consciousness can actually directly
interact with the physical world.
Because I had this interest
in consciousness,
obviously things like telepathy,
psychokinesis and so on
were phenomena
which I was also interested in.
I began to see consciousness
as a much wider phenomenon,
not just generated in the brain.
I think the brain is in a field,
and I think brain fields interact
with each other.
The way that I might look
at the Enfield poltergeist would be
that you have
a highly disturbed adolescent.
They've got this wonderful machine
which is called their brain,
and it can interact
with the field of consciousness.
And if it does that,
then these things can arise.
You can, by an intention, change things.
The physical world
is just a sort of, you know--
it's like a four-dimensional slice,
in my perspective,
of this higher-dimensional reality.
And this higher-dimensional reality is,
if you like--
that's the world of mind.
The truth is,
if psychic phenomena were real,
it would be so important
that we need to be sure.
I got into psychic research
through an experience of my own,
a dramatic out-of-the-body-
turned-mystical experience
that I couldn't understand at all.
This was when I was a first-year student
at Oxford in 1970.
I became so committed
to the idea that my spirit
or astral body had left that I thought,
"Well, I don't want to carry on
with what would've been a sensible career
in psychology and physiology,"
which is what I was doing,
"I want to prove to the world
that there are psychic phenomena."
I started doing a lot
of experiments on telepathy,
clairvoyance, precognition and so on.
According to one theory,
PK powers fade with age and should
therefore be strongest in babies.
The computer will play a nice tune
and show a smiling face,
which Emily enjoys looking at,
according to the output
of the random number generator.
And what happens is,
if she's using her PK successfully,
it will play more often.
To begin with,
I got some significant results
- that you wouldn't expect by chance.
- Bye.
But then, over four to five years,
the experimental work that I did
led me to be ever and ever more doubtful.
And I became more and more worried.
"Well, how am I ever going
to find these things?"
"Well, if that doesn't work,
there's always this.
And if this doesn't work,
then there's this.
There's always another door to open.
There's always another corner to turn."
That was the feeling.
Until one day,
this thought came over me:
What if none of it is true?
The whole point about psychical research
is that you should be skeptical.
I mean, not disbelieving,
but you should start off always trying
to find a natural explanation.
That's true of science in general.
You should be skeptical in the sense
that you're always open.
The Enfield case is without doubt
one of the most evidential cases
in the sense that we've got
all these recordings.
Inevitably, any so-called
"spontaneous" case is chaotic,
and it is hard to come by
any definite conclusion.
There is, as regards Enfield,
a considerable amount of testimony.
You see things that you can't explain,
you've got a tendency not to believe them.
You've got a tendency to say,
"I didn't really see 'em."
But you know you did.
And there was a chest of drawers
moving towards the door.
And there was banging.
Banging on the side of the walls,
and on the ceiling. On the floor.
Some of this testimony
is quite impressive and reassuring,
but there is no real evidence.
My view is that, unfortunately,
much of the case withers away
on closer inspection.
There was an ordinary kitchen chair
moved across the room.
Small armchair, and it jumped, was it,
about four or five inches from the settee?
and the policewoman saw it.
It came off the floor nearly a half inch,
I should say.
It moved approximately
three to four feet and then came to rest.
Moved about, well, I expect 18 inches,
something like that. Just a short way.
Our brain's main thing
they're doing all the time
is recognizing patterns.
The more we understand about the brain,
the less room there is for
belief in paranormal phenomena.
Human bodies are machines,
but somehow we want to be more than that.
People want to believe
there's more than this world.
But as I entered the front room,
something-- I think it was a LEGO brick--
came from behind me very low down and
very fast and hit the wall in front of me.
- I went straight toward
- Looking back on it now
- and stood with my back to it
- my own impression
is that, you know,
there's so many accounts,
so many witnesses.
One can't just dismiss all those
and say it was all fraud or imagination.
What's so frustrating is
we still don't know.
Not just in the Enfield case,
it applies to almost everything
in psychical research.
But that's precisely what makes psych--
the subject so tantalizing.
How would you distinguish between
what is nonsense and what is--
what is true?
It has been said many times
by skeptics and critics
of psychic research
that my interest in the subject
was motivated by grief.
And that this grief
distorted my sense of reality.
Their conclusions are entirely mistaken.
The Enfield case proved to my satisfaction
and beyond a shadow of doubt,
that the realities of life and death
are not what they appear to be.
Bill, I want you to tell me
whether you remember
what happened to you when you died.
Just before you died
and just after you died.
Bill, who was the voice--
this is the ghost--
he described how he died.
Some years later,
my father received a telephone call.
And it was from a man
who said he knew the voice.
- Hello.
- Hello, Maurice. Nice to meet you again.
- Nice seeing you again.
- Come in.
This chap identified himself as
the son of William Wilkins-- Bill.
Bill, I want you to tell me
whether you remember
what happened to you when you died.
Just before you died
and just after you died.
Days before I died, I went blind.
Then I had an hemorrhage,
and I fell asleep,
and I died in a chair
in a corner downstairs.
- Is-- That's right?
- That's exactly true.
- That is exactly true, yes.
- Exactly as he did.
And we're-- Of course, at that time,
we certainly didn't know how he died.
The only thing we knew at that time
- was that your father had gone blind.
- Yeah.
- We didn't know anything else.
- No, no.
- But it describes exactly how he died.
- That's exactly what happened.
He died in the chair,
down in the living room.
My mum popped out
to the shop for ten minutes.
When she came back, he was dead.
Incredible.
- That's exact--
- And here we are, another confirmation.
Very interesting.
See, the sort of things
like knocking on the wall.
The three knocks,
always three knocks on the wall.
It was just a strange knock on the wall.
During the war they were
air raid wardens together.
And if ever the sirens went off,
one would knock to the other one.
And then they'd meet out the back,
"Are you ready, Fred?" "Yeah."
"Okay, see you outside in a moment."
And then they'd go off.
That's how they used to communicate.
Rather than go knocking on the door,
there'd be three taps
on the wall every time.
Amazing.
"Spoon bent at breakfast by Janet."
These are things. These are just objects.
And without context,
they don't mean anything.
Except it represents, you know, this--
such an important part
of my father's life,
and the time and effort that went into it.
For me, the whole experience tells me
that there are things above
and beyond our senses.
When someone tells me their story--
and so many people have stories
of things that have happened to them--
I don't dismiss them anymore. I listen.
- Rolling?
- Yeah. Do I need a seat belt?
- It doesn't need a seat belt.
- No?
The last 29 years of his life,
he was a paranormal investigator,
which I know he enjoyed probably
more than any other time in his life.
We went to "intraview" Britain's leading
expert on ghosts. Check it.
I is here with Britain's number one
parapsychologist, Maurice Grosse.
And we is here, actually in a
haunted house, and I is well scared.
I's bricking it.
How long has this house been haunted?
- This house?
- Aye.
This-- No. You-- We got it all wrong.
This is not a haunted house.
- This--
- This is my house
You investigate things.
Now, one of the most difficult things
that you ever did was
the Enfield poltergeist.
What things did you see?
- Well, things flying about. We had--
- What things?
Big furniture, small furniture.
In fact, the settee turned upside down
and flew across the room right
in front of me as I walked into the room.
- Had you been drinking?
- No.
Too funny.
- Hello, Uri.
- Hello, Maurice.
- How are you? Nice to see you.
- Hi, how are you?
- Lovely to see you.
- You're filming, huh?
- Yes.
- Come on in.
- Ready?
- Yes.
Oh, my God.
Oh, goodness me.
5,000 bent spoons and forks on it.
Many of them were bent with my abilities,
my powers.
Oh, heavens.
See, it brought a smile on your face.
I'll say. I'll say.
Whatever we know about life,
about the world,
we still haven't cracked it.
Here we go.
There's still things that we--
we probably won't ever find out.
Dad tried to find out.
He was a lovely dad. He was a lovely dad.
And though the case was over,
he used to come once a month.
This evening should be
very interesting indeed.
I'm going to see Margaret and her mother,
of the Enfield poltergeist case,
now nearly 18 years ago.
He'd have boxes of Maltesers for us each.
Well, here I am
at this famous house in Enfield.
And here you see Margaret and her mother.
He'd talk to my mum.
She would make him a cup of tea,
and he would ask how she's been
and how we all are.
You remember the day I first came?
- Yes, I remember, Mr. Grosse.
- Yeah, we do remember that, Mr. Grosse.
- And you was on the case ever since then.
- Yeah.
You know, it wasn't like,
"Now the poltergeist is finished,
I'm just not gonna come."
He made the effort,
and he continued to be
like a family friend as well.
I used to go back regularly
just to look at that house.
About two years ago, we went in the car,
and my husband drove us.
We got the feeling no one
was really in there.
We just had a look, and then all this
flashing started in the living room.
All the lights started going on and off,
flashing on and off.
I felt like maybe
something had recognized me.
I don't wanna go back there now.
I don't wanna go back there.
I was glad to get out of there.
I left home as soon as I could.
Where is she?
It's something
that not many people experience.
And I've had to get strong
from a pretty early age and build on that.
Try and explain to me
I was in bed, right
It used to upset me
when they used to say, "She's faking it."
Like this. Like this.
I know what I experienced,
and I know that it was real.
Yeah.
It had such a devastating effect on me.
I've never really said this to anyone,
but you never really
feel completely yourself.
What is "myself," you know?
It's something you never forget.
Something that you'll just think of,
and it'll just come
flowing back, you know?
You never feel like you're free of it.
I don't like to say this, you know,
but I feel it even now.
It's never left me.
You're hurting me.
You're hurting me. You're hurting me.
- What's the matter?
- I can't tell you.
This time, Janet was thrown
right out of the room, onto the stairs.
I saw you banging on the floor, Janet.
I didn't bang.
I saw you bang.
Janet. Can you hear me, Janet?
Janet, can you hear me?
One time when we s--
Why didn't you spit
the water out until I told you?
No, I don't want you
to do anything until I tell you.
Janet. Janet. Janet.
Janet. Can you hear me? Janet?
Can you hear me, Janet?
All right, Janet. Well done.
All right, now, Janet.
There's a good girl.
There's a good girl. All right.
I blamed myself a lot.
The fact that I went into care alone
and Margaret and Bill were still there.
It was my fault
because I was the epicenter.
Why me?
Why did it happen to me, our family? Why?
I've never actually done
that many interviews or documentaries.
And I was always very dubious
about doing any of them
'cause it does bring it all back again,
and there's all the emotions
that I've tried to escape all my life.
Yeah, I remember that one.
- The look of terror on Mum's face.
- Yeah, I remember.
- That one.
- Yeah.
When I was pulled out of bed.
And that distressed me
to see you like that.
That distressed me terrible.
Yeah, I remember
being turned off the settee.
Tipped upside down.
- It just turned over. And--
- Yeah.
And she'd run off it,
and then it'd be over on the--
tip up on the floor.
Does feel strange though.
Like going back in time.
Really does. All those years ago.
Looking back now,
something could come into our lives,
into our house.
Could it have been something
that drew energy from me?
June, 1978.
Janet has now spent six weeks
in a home run by nuns.
We are redoubling our efforts to help her,
but none of the doctors, psychiatrists,
or psychologists who have
witnessed her altered states
can agree on their diagnosis.
The psychiatrist consulted
by the local doctor
suggested we simply go away
and leave the family alone.
Maurice was a very compassionate man.
And there's no doubt
that he cared about the family.
That's important because,
as a psychical researcher,
you probably want the phenomena
to go on as long as possible.
You know, this doesn't often happen,
so you're quite keen to--
to sort of get evidence for this.
On the other hand,
as a human being, you're dealing--
you realize you're dealing
with people who are going
through a very traumatic state.
And so, from that point of view,
you want the phenomena to stop.
I was having these bad nightmares.
Nights used to be so long.
When I look back now,
I don't know how I stayed sane.
I just wanted to run away.
I do remember being concerned about Janet.
Just mentally and physically, emotionally.
To be screaming, hysterical,
to have that amount of tension,
she needed help.
July the 26th, 1978.
We have finally got Janet admitted
to the Maudsley Hospital
under the care of Dr. Peter Fenwick,
head of the neurological department.
Guy Playfair said to me,
"We've got this fascinating phenomena
going on at Enfield. A poltergeist.
The girl, Janet, goes into strange,
contorted positions.
And do you think that she has epilepsy?"
And so, I originally thought,
"Well, poltergeists and epilepsy?
Doubt it.
But it's certainly worth
looking at Janet."
I thought I was going home.
So, I was very surprised to be going
to stay in a hospital.
Remember, it's 47 years ago,
but I do have Janet's permission
to talk about her on camera.
I'm a neuropsychiatrist,
which means "neuro" understand the brain--
-"psychiatrist"-- understand behavior.
- If you looking at this
People who had disorders
of behavior used to be referred to me.
I was also interested in consciousness.
And so, my interests were wider
than just simple reductionist science.
What I was wanting to know is
whether you could
separate poltergeist effects,
epilepsy, and behavioral changes
in the person.
We ran a whole lot of tests
on her to see, particularly,
if there was an organic basis
for her behavior.
They wanted to see what was going on
in me brain.
When you're that young,
you know, you think,
"Psychiatry, what does that really mean?"
You know?
People think, "It's madness.
They've gone into there
because they're mad."
But there's different reasons.
Is it something in the body?
Or is it in the brain?
Or is it something that's happened
from the past?
All of the physical tests
we did were normal.
And so we then wondered
about the behavioral component.
What I did know about poltergeists
at this time was
that they tended to occur,
usually, where there was
a very high tension in the family.
I haven't really listened
to the tapes up until now.
But it's like I'm meant to go back
'cause it's gonna teach me something.
Why do you think it's chosen you?
Why do you think it's happening to you?
Well, I can't directly answer that,
but there's been a lot of distress
in the house before all this happened.
I think it goes right back
to when her father was here.
And I mean,
he wouldn't let those kids play.
He wouldn't let them have any toys out.
If there was a row outside,
he used to bring them in.
He's been gone two years this month--
the 14th of this month.
I was in a very low state,
and I did feel very depressed
after Mr. Hodgson went.
It all sort of bounded back on me,
all the distress.
I suddenly realized how we'd been living
and how hard it had been.
And it all built up, I suppose.
I think, between them,
they've bottled up such a lot.
That might have had something
to do with it.
That's the only reason I can think of.
Looking back now,
there was a lot
of stress and tension in the family.
The upset of Johnny going away to school.
Mum and Dad had divorced.
I remember before I was ten,
my parents would regularly have rows.
And one day,
I don't know what my mum done--
She went to open the front door,
and he shut her arm in it.
I remember this very well.
And I remember things
getting a bit overheated,
and they were arguing
and shouting at each other.
And I remember, my father sat me down,
and he said to me,
"I won't be living here anymore, you know.
We're getting divorced, Mum and I."
Our lives changed then.
And then I don't remember
much more childhood.
It did really affect me.
I mean, my dad he was hotheaded.
He had no patience.
But then I cried when he left.
It was like there was an absence.
Something was missing.
Did hit me hard, actually. It did. Yeah.
That's what I'm saying, right?
You go in the small bed, Margaret.
Trust you to say that.
There is a great deal
of emotional stress in the family.
you come back
from the shops this afternoon.
But how is stress capable
of physically affecting its surroundings?
How does all that fit into the picture?
The chair,
which was standing by Janet's bed.
Mum, he's tricking me.
Christ! It's the ghost!
And there was a chest of drawers
moving towards the door.
Bash the window!
What's happened?
Now the chair gone over.
It just tipped over the settee
in front of us.
I've never used to like
going upstairs on me own.
It was like there was something there.
It was a feeling like it was behind me.
Now, tell me, what are you doing here,
and why are you here?
Shall I tell you really who I am?
Really?
Some people have to see it to believe it.
But once you've experienced it,
you know that it's real.
27th, 1978, in the Maudsley Hospital.
Well, Janet, come over here
and stick your mouth near the microphone
- so we can hear you.
- Yeah.
That's all right.
Tell me--
You're saying when you're on your own,
you're not-- you're not--
Nothing happens when you're on your own.
I can guarantee that nothing
will happen now.
- Really?
- Just got that feeling.
But when you're with Margaret
and your mum,
- you feel this sort of force building up?
- Builds up, yeah.
Does it? What does it feel like? I mean--
Yeah, and in the end mum winds up
by shouting at me over it,
'cause it's happening round me.
That's why I say the energy comes to me.
It all builds up around me.
I'd like to sleep in the little room
on me own, you know what I mean?
You'd like to sleep on your own
from now on?
Yeah.
- What, on your own, without anybody?
- Yeah.
I could decorate me own bedroom
and everything.
Yes. You should do that.
That's very important actually.
You ought to do that as soon
as you get home.
- Yeah. I was gonna get a paintbrush--
- Just get a brush and go
I've got a radio.
That'll keep me company of a night.
- Yeah.
- What, on your own, without anybody?
Strange, sort of,
listening to me at that age.
I seem quite determined. I think, "Wow.
Really? Was this me?"
Think you'll forget all
about your dad soon?
- You know, when you grow up and--
- He's been gone two years now.
You'll have lots of boyfriends
before long.
You won't remember him.
But we gotta stop this damn thing,
you know, now.
- It's not doing you any good.
- I know. That's what Mum said.
You know,
you're gonna be quite famous one day.
There's no doubt about Janet's relief
in getting away from the family.
She immediately relaxed
and became really a quite different girl
after she'd been with us for a bit.
We had her in there for six weeks,
and we found a not-unusual teenager.
Mrs. Hodgson is talking
about her interview
- with Dr. Fenwick.
- Fenwick.
- He asked you how Janet was.
- Yeah.
Just tell me that again, will you?
And I turned round, and I said,
Janet has been a lot better
since she's been away from the house,
which she has,
- and she looked a lot better.
- Yeah.
Can I get in here?
My wife will tell you
the next time you ask her
that she was amazed
when she saw Janet away.
She said that-- the way she described it--
cowed look had gone.
- You know what she's talking about.
- She looked very cowed before she left.
Very cowed. She said it's completely gone.
Yeah. Well, I also said to him--
I must bear in mind,
and I must admit
that Janet is a moody child.
- And she's a very restless child.
- Yeah.
But I'll tell you what I think--
and I'm gonna be quite honest about it--
she's my daughter,
and I miss her very much,
but I don't think she should
come back here.
With me, like,
I was the black sheep, you know?
She didn't really want me
'cause I was trouble.
I was part of the problem
while it was happening.
When I came out the Maudsley,
I was picked up by the social worker.
And he was taking me
around children's homes,
trying to find another
children's home for me.
He couldn't find one. They were all full.
Okay
And in the end, he took me back to Mum.
And Mum's face,
I could tell she didn't really
want me home.
I think she was fearful that it
would all really start up badly again
because I was back there.
This is the
In this program,
we're going to explore an area
where our common sense notions
aren't going to be much help to us at all.
How does the uncertainty principle
square up with the everyday world?
When I got home, I just needed peace
and to-- just to be left alone, really.
Clear off. Get out. We've had enough.
We've had enough of you.
Go back where you came from.
I would like, for one moment,
to contemplate the word "truth."
Where does the truth lie?
Only in the everyday decipherings
of our five senses?
Or might it rest in the depths
of an unknown dimension,
beyond our understanding?
Hello, Mr. Grosse.
It's Sunday, October the 8th, 1978.
And I'm just going to
make a copy for you--
for your private collection--
of the tape I made with Peter Liefhebber
and Dono Gmelig-Meyling.
I thought this most remarkable story
needed to be got down on tape at once,
so I went round
and I made the tape which follows.
I won't comment on it yet
until you've had time to think it over.
I think you'll find these
coincidences quite interesting.
You'll notice that I didn't offer
any information concerning you personally.
Before the investigation,
my father had suffered
a huge emotional loss.
And Guy-- because he was a spiritualist,
because he believed in those things--
couldn't get out
of his mind a potential connection.
All right. I'll start the copy now.
Friday, October the 6th, 1978.
Belgravia Hotel, to see Peter Liefhebber.
- Right. Here we are in the hotel, Peter.
- Yes.
Well, I wonder, could you tell me roughly
what you told me on the phone?
What exactly happened?
On Wednesday evening,
we met Maurice Grosse for the first time.
- Yes.
- And when he came in the car,
Dono and I felt the same thing.
An enormous tension again,
the same tenseness we felt
when we first arrived
in the Hodgson's house.
And he said to me,
"There is something with Maurice--
There is something in his aura.
I can't figure out now what is there,
but there is something.
Something very close,
connected to the whole affair."
And he didn't say that about me,
for instance?
No. No, no.
Dono said that there was something
very close in his family
related with the affair.
It was quite obvious that
there should have been
also some poltergeist phenomena
within the neighborhood of Maurice Grosse.
Well, I didn't--
Because of the shape of his aura.
And that Monday evening,
Dono had an out-of-the-body experience
in the house of the Hodgsons.
- He can do things like that at will.
- Yes.
And on the astral level,
he saw a girl of about 24 years old.
She had a rather long face
and rather brown or dark hair
or something like that,
but it was rather vague.
It was just an impression, you know.
All those things consist merely
of impressions.
Dono told me that he thought
that the girl had been in hospital.
That there was something with her head.
There was something wrong with her head?
Something with her head, yes.
There was some damage to her brains
or something like that.
- Damage?
- Yes.
My sister was a character.
My sister lived life to the full.
She was Janet Esther Grosse,
and she was 22 years old.
She was 22 years old. No age at all.
My sister was killed
in a motorcycle accident in Cardiff.
And it happened on my birthday.
I received a visit from the police,
I think, 2:30 in the morning,
telling me that I should go
to Cardiff Royal Infirmary
because that's where she was.
Janet was lying on the hospital bed
with her head wrapped
in bandages, and two black eyes.
She'd suffered a major trauma to her head.
And we all sat there.
And it was a tragic day.
And we eventually
switched the machine off,
and my sister passed away.
And around that awful event
were some extraordinary things
that happened.
Call them coincidence, call them fate,
call them whatever you like.
The afternoon before,
when my sister had her accident,
my mother was on the beach.
And at that time, 4:20 in the afternoon,
she felt seriously ill,
so ill that my father wanted
to call an ambulance to the beach.
A clock that had always worked
stopped at the precise time, 4:20.
It was the summer of 1976
when it didn't rain for months,
and there was a huge water shortage.
And underneath my sister's
bedroom window is the roof
of the extension to the kitchen.
That roof was soaking wet.
No other roofs anywhere around were wet.
Just that roof.
But I think the most extraordinary event
happened to me.
After my sister died,
on the way back, on the train,
I realized that my sister would've
sent me a birthday card.
And that birthday card
would almost certainly
be on the mat at home when I got in.
Janet's birthday card to Richard,
August the 5th, 1976.
I was absolutely amazed by what I saw.
On the front was a person
with a head wrapped in bandages,
two black eyes, in a hospital gown.
"I was going to buy you a bottle
of toilet water for your birthday
but the lid fell on my head.
Happy birthday."
A strange, strange wording for a card.
But what was even stranger was
that my sister had written
in her own hand an arrow pointing to
the word "head."
And it went down, and it said,
"And there won't be much left
of that soon anyway. Love, Jan."
How could she have known,
but without knowing?
How could--
How could something like this happen?
It's
It's too unreal.
All these phenomena, and the fact
that they all happened at the same time,
made us feel that there
was something going on.
Janet. Janet.
Poltergeist.
Something that we couldn't explain.
Are you listening, Janet?
P-O-L-T-E-R-G-E-I-S-T.
Poltergeist.
It changed him completely.
Losing a child
Time helps, but you never get over it.
Happens.
I often wonder what would have happened
had she lived,
how different our lives would have been.
Your life would have been quite different.
You realize that, don't you?
My life would have been quite different
because it was the extraordinary things
that happened when she--
around about the time she died.
Extraordinary psychic thing--
what I consider to be psychic,
and so did you--
that happened, that sort of
launched me onto this determination
to try and find out more
about what happens when you-- you die,
and what psychic research is all about.
If you think of coincidence,
then how extraordinary not only
is that set of circumstances--
But my father goes to the Society
and says, "I'd like a case,"
and the very first case that comes along
turns out to be arguably
the most important case in
the history of paranormal activity.
Did you-- Did you die in this house?
Did you pass on?
You did pass on in this house?
Now why are you here? Are you unhappy?
Now, I often wonder, you know,
strange it may seem,
it could be coincidence.
It may not have been
that his daughter's name was Janet.
But I think he felt that, at the time--
like he was put in touch
with us for a reason.
You did pass on in this house?
Now why are you here? Are you unhappy?
Christ! It's the ghost! It's the ghost!
Janet. Can you hear me, Janet?
Because he'd lost his daughter,
you could argue that, you know,
he had a-- a motive,
an incentive to try and find evidence.
But the question of coincidences
or synchronicity,
this domain of experience is fundamental.
If you yourself have had an experience,
that is what's going to make you take
this phenomena seriously.
Certainly, for me,
I've had experiences which--
which have, you know,
made me feel these phenomena are g--
some of these phenomena are genuine.
The whole point about psychical research
is it does suggest
that consciousness can actually directly
interact with the physical world.
Because I had this interest
in consciousness,
obviously things like telepathy,
psychokinesis and so on
were phenomena
which I was also interested in.
I began to see consciousness
as a much wider phenomenon,
not just generated in the brain.
I think the brain is in a field,
and I think brain fields interact
with each other.
The way that I might look
at the Enfield poltergeist would be
that you have
a highly disturbed adolescent.
They've got this wonderful machine
which is called their brain,
and it can interact
with the field of consciousness.
And if it does that,
then these things can arise.
You can, by an intention, change things.
The physical world
is just a sort of, you know--
it's like a four-dimensional slice,
in my perspective,
of this higher-dimensional reality.
And this higher-dimensional reality is,
if you like--
that's the world of mind.
The truth is,
if psychic phenomena were real,
it would be so important
that we need to be sure.
I got into psychic research
through an experience of my own,
a dramatic out-of-the-body-
turned-mystical experience
that I couldn't understand at all.
This was when I was a first-year student
at Oxford in 1970.
I became so committed
to the idea that my spirit
or astral body had left that I thought,
"Well, I don't want to carry on
with what would've been a sensible career
in psychology and physiology,"
which is what I was doing,
"I want to prove to the world
that there are psychic phenomena."
I started doing a lot
of experiments on telepathy,
clairvoyance, precognition and so on.
According to one theory,
PK powers fade with age and should
therefore be strongest in babies.
The computer will play a nice tune
and show a smiling face,
which Emily enjoys looking at,
according to the output
of the random number generator.
And what happens is,
if she's using her PK successfully,
it will play more often.
To begin with,
I got some significant results
- that you wouldn't expect by chance.
- Bye.
But then, over four to five years,
the experimental work that I did
led me to be ever and ever more doubtful.
And I became more and more worried.
"Well, how am I ever going
to find these things?"
"Well, if that doesn't work,
there's always this.
And if this doesn't work,
then there's this.
There's always another door to open.
There's always another corner to turn."
That was the feeling.
Until one day,
this thought came over me:
What if none of it is true?
The whole point about psychical research
is that you should be skeptical.
I mean, not disbelieving,
but you should start off always trying
to find a natural explanation.
That's true of science in general.
You should be skeptical in the sense
that you're always open.
The Enfield case is without doubt
one of the most evidential cases
in the sense that we've got
all these recordings.
Inevitably, any so-called
"spontaneous" case is chaotic,
and it is hard to come by
any definite conclusion.
There is, as regards Enfield,
a considerable amount of testimony.
You see things that you can't explain,
you've got a tendency not to believe them.
You've got a tendency to say,
"I didn't really see 'em."
But you know you did.
And there was a chest of drawers
moving towards the door.
And there was banging.
Banging on the side of the walls,
and on the ceiling. On the floor.
Some of this testimony
is quite impressive and reassuring,
but there is no real evidence.
My view is that, unfortunately,
much of the case withers away
on closer inspection.
There was an ordinary kitchen chair
moved across the room.
Small armchair, and it jumped, was it,
about four or five inches from the settee?
and the policewoman saw it.
It came off the floor nearly a half inch,
I should say.
It moved approximately
three to four feet and then came to rest.
Moved about, well, I expect 18 inches,
something like that. Just a short way.
Our brain's main thing
they're doing all the time
is recognizing patterns.
The more we understand about the brain,
the less room there is for
belief in paranormal phenomena.
Human bodies are machines,
but somehow we want to be more than that.
People want to believe
there's more than this world.
But as I entered the front room,
something-- I think it was a LEGO brick--
came from behind me very low down and
very fast and hit the wall in front of me.
- I went straight toward
- Looking back on it now
- and stood with my back to it
- my own impression
is that, you know,
there's so many accounts,
so many witnesses.
One can't just dismiss all those
and say it was all fraud or imagination.
What's so frustrating is
we still don't know.
Not just in the Enfield case,
it applies to almost everything
in psychical research.
But that's precisely what makes psych--
the subject so tantalizing.
How would you distinguish between
what is nonsense and what is--
what is true?
It has been said many times
by skeptics and critics
of psychic research
that my interest in the subject
was motivated by grief.
And that this grief
distorted my sense of reality.
Their conclusions are entirely mistaken.
The Enfield case proved to my satisfaction
and beyond a shadow of doubt,
that the realities of life and death
are not what they appear to be.
Bill, I want you to tell me
whether you remember
what happened to you when you died.
Just before you died
and just after you died.
Bill, who was the voice--
this is the ghost--
he described how he died.
Some years later,
my father received a telephone call.
And it was from a man
who said he knew the voice.
- Hello.
- Hello, Maurice. Nice to meet you again.
- Nice seeing you again.
- Come in.
This chap identified himself as
the son of William Wilkins-- Bill.
Bill, I want you to tell me
whether you remember
what happened to you when you died.
Just before you died
and just after you died.
Days before I died, I went blind.
Then I had an hemorrhage,
and I fell asleep,
and I died in a chair
in a corner downstairs.
- Is-- That's right?
- That's exactly true.
- That is exactly true, yes.
- Exactly as he did.
And we're-- Of course, at that time,
we certainly didn't know how he died.
The only thing we knew at that time
- was that your father had gone blind.
- Yeah.
- We didn't know anything else.
- No, no.
- But it describes exactly how he died.
- That's exactly what happened.
He died in the chair,
down in the living room.
My mum popped out
to the shop for ten minutes.
When she came back, he was dead.
Incredible.
- That's exact--
- And here we are, another confirmation.
Very interesting.
See, the sort of things
like knocking on the wall.
The three knocks,
always three knocks on the wall.
It was just a strange knock on the wall.
During the war they were
air raid wardens together.
And if ever the sirens went off,
one would knock to the other one.
And then they'd meet out the back,
"Are you ready, Fred?" "Yeah."
"Okay, see you outside in a moment."
And then they'd go off.
That's how they used to communicate.
Rather than go knocking on the door,
there'd be three taps
on the wall every time.
Amazing.
"Spoon bent at breakfast by Janet."
These are things. These are just objects.
And without context,
they don't mean anything.
Except it represents, you know, this--
such an important part
of my father's life,
and the time and effort that went into it.
For me, the whole experience tells me
that there are things above
and beyond our senses.
When someone tells me their story--
and so many people have stories
of things that have happened to them--
I don't dismiss them anymore. I listen.
- Rolling?
- Yeah. Do I need a seat belt?
- It doesn't need a seat belt.
- No?
The last 29 years of his life,
he was a paranormal investigator,
which I know he enjoyed probably
more than any other time in his life.
We went to "intraview" Britain's leading
expert on ghosts. Check it.
I is here with Britain's number one
parapsychologist, Maurice Grosse.
And we is here, actually in a
haunted house, and I is well scared.
I's bricking it.
How long has this house been haunted?
- This house?
- Aye.
This-- No. You-- We got it all wrong.
This is not a haunted house.
- This--
- This is my house
You investigate things.
Now, one of the most difficult things
that you ever did was
the Enfield poltergeist.
What things did you see?
- Well, things flying about. We had--
- What things?
Big furniture, small furniture.
In fact, the settee turned upside down
and flew across the room right
in front of me as I walked into the room.
- Had you been drinking?
- No.
Too funny.
- Hello, Uri.
- Hello, Maurice.
- How are you? Nice to see you.
- Hi, how are you?
- Lovely to see you.
- You're filming, huh?
- Yes.
- Come on in.
- Ready?
- Yes.
Oh, my God.
Oh, goodness me.
5,000 bent spoons and forks on it.
Many of them were bent with my abilities,
my powers.
Oh, heavens.
See, it brought a smile on your face.
I'll say. I'll say.
Whatever we know about life,
about the world,
we still haven't cracked it.
Here we go.
There's still things that we--
we probably won't ever find out.
Dad tried to find out.
He was a lovely dad. He was a lovely dad.
And though the case was over,
he used to come once a month.
This evening should be
very interesting indeed.
I'm going to see Margaret and her mother,
of the Enfield poltergeist case,
now nearly 18 years ago.
He'd have boxes of Maltesers for us each.
Well, here I am
at this famous house in Enfield.
And here you see Margaret and her mother.
He'd talk to my mum.
She would make him a cup of tea,
and he would ask how she's been
and how we all are.
You remember the day I first came?
- Yes, I remember, Mr. Grosse.
- Yeah, we do remember that, Mr. Grosse.
- And you was on the case ever since then.
- Yeah.
You know, it wasn't like,
"Now the poltergeist is finished,
I'm just not gonna come."
He made the effort,
and he continued to be
like a family friend as well.
I used to go back regularly
just to look at that house.
About two years ago, we went in the car,
and my husband drove us.
We got the feeling no one
was really in there.
We just had a look, and then all this
flashing started in the living room.
All the lights started going on and off,
flashing on and off.
I felt like maybe
something had recognized me.
I don't wanna go back there now.
I don't wanna go back there.
I was glad to get out of there.
I left home as soon as I could.
Where is she?
It's something
that not many people experience.
And I've had to get strong
from a pretty early age and build on that.
Try and explain to me
I was in bed, right
It used to upset me
when they used to say, "She's faking it."
Like this. Like this.
I know what I experienced,
and I know that it was real.
Yeah.
It had such a devastating effect on me.
I've never really said this to anyone,
but you never really
feel completely yourself.
What is "myself," you know?
It's something you never forget.
Something that you'll just think of,
and it'll just come
flowing back, you know?
You never feel like you're free of it.
I don't like to say this, you know,
but I feel it even now.
It's never left me.