The Staircase (2004) s01e10 Episode Script

[theme music plays.]
[Brad Bannon.]
In September of 2007, Dr.
Turner killed his wife, Jennifer Turner, and several months after the killing, Dr.
Turner was indicted by the Davie County grand jury for first-degree murder.
What did Dr.
Turner say had happened between him and his wife? Well, the killing occurred in an outbuilding of the property that Dr.
Turner and his wife had shared until they became separated, about 18 months before the killing.
And inside the building were just tons of stuff lying all around.
One of the things that was lying around was a large, seven-foot I mean, for lack of a better term, Viking spear that had about a 16-inch blade on the end of it and Mrs.
Turner picked up the spear and attacked him with it, driving it through his leg, near his groin, through and through twice and stabbing him on his arm.
At that point in time, he went into his pocket.
He had a pocket knife with him and he used the pocket knife to defend himself, and in the course of doing so, inflicted the wounds that killed her.
[David Rudolf.]
And did he, in fact, have wounds on his leg that were consistent with what he had said happened? Yes, he lost about a quarter of his blood volume and one of those wounds was about 1.
5 centimeters from his femoral artery, which they also concluded would have killed him if it had hit him.
I’ll show you what has been marked as Exhibit 27.
Thanks.
What was the initial opinion that Agent Thomas had with regard to the shirt that Dr.
Turner had been wearing? "This transfer bloodstain pattern was consistent with a bloody hand being wiped on the surface of the shirt.
" Alright.
What does the second report say? It says, "It is consistent with a pointed object, consistent with a knife being wiped on the surface of the shirt.
" Was there any indication in that second report that there had been a significant change? No, there wasn’t.
What Special Agent Thomas testified about is that the SBI and Special Agent Deaver, who was working with him, had been presented with a new scenario that, in essence, he had inflicted those wounds on himself and entirely staged the scene.
Following that, they, when looking at the shirt, "Could it possibly have been because somebody was wiping a knife on the shirt?" [Rudolf.]
Was that what he got out of that meeting that Agent Deaver attended? - [Bannon.]
Yes.
- [Rudolf.]
And then it says, "I’m going to meet with Duane to do the actual reconstruction.
" Yes.
- Who’s filming this? - [Bannon.]
Special Agent Deaver.
- He’s present there? Alright.
- He’s filming it, yes.
[Bannon.]
I think what they were trying to do is put blood on just the outside layers of the knife in the hopes that it would somehow duplicate the initial stain, even though he didn't know of a scenario where that would occur in actual real life, where you only have blood on the absolute edges of a knife.
[Duane Deaver.]
Nice, good curve.
Turn your wrist in.
Oh, even better.
Yeah, that's good.
Alright, then you want to get some just apply it on the fingers, and just kind of Up, up.
Beautiful.
That’s a wrap, baby.
[Bannon.]
Not in any effort to recreate any scenario of what actually happened that night, but just to create a stain that might look like another stain, that might refute what our experts said about what that stain was.
[Joseph Neff.]
There’s a bloodstain expert, Stewart James.
He’s universally regarded as oneof the handful, top two or three experts in this field.
He takes that the video of the Kirk Turner blood experiments where Gerald Thomas wipes the shirt and Duane Deaver is filming it, and he shows this video uh, at professional conferences, both in the United States and abroad.
And the reaction in the community of bloodstain pattern analysis, is he says, it's shock.
That everyone just looks at these experiments and says, "That is a bunch of malarkey.
" It’s sort of what’s happening in Mike Peterson’s motion for appropriate relief right now.
You can, sort of, know all of these anecdotal things, and you can experience them in individual cases, like we did with Dr.
Turner and other cases, but once you see all of those things synthesized and brought together and woven into the same tapestry, it's pretty devastating to see, you know, what can pass for science and justice in a courtroom.
Thanks, we appreciate it.
[Michael Peterson.]
We're going to get lunch today, Deputy? We're working on it, Mike.
What? This woman stabbed him with a spear and then he cut her throat with you know, this is not a good marriage.
But anyway, but then when I read that he Duane Deaver believed the man had taken a spear and put it through his leg.
Man, I mean, it just boggles the mind to think that anybody would come up with that.
I got an orange.
[sighing.]
God! Yeah, feel how cool the sandwich is.
Just feel feel how cold that is.
[groaning.]
Hm.
Mm.
[Rudolf.]
Mrs.
Sutton, have you been qualified as an expert witness in the field of bloodstain pattern analysis? Yes, sir, I have.
I want to show you what Mr.
 Deaver testified to at Mr.
Peterson’s trial.
[male voice.]
I’m gonna ask for you to describe the types of experiments that you used and what the results were, generally.
Test One was to place a source of blood a certain distance above the horizontal or above the ground, impact it with test shoes on, and to take a look at those spatters to determine if they were comparable to what I found on the real shoes.
Okay.
[Deaver.]
But the wearer of these shoes, these shoes were actually directly below a source of blood, which my opinion is the back of the head of the victim, when it was impacted.
[Rudolf.]
Is there anything about the experiments that you saw that in any way supports - Mr.
Deaver’s opinion? - No.
The experiment won’t show that at all.
What the experiment shows is that if you impact a sponge, it’ll create spatter.
That’s that’s a given in my field.
That’s a recreation.
That’s trying to make a set of circumstances and get a desired outcome.
It’s not what I would classify as an experiment.
[Deaver.]
The opinion is that these pants are consistent with impact spatters, with a result of a forceful impact, and that the individual wearing these pants at the time of that impact was in close proximity to the source of blood when it was impacted.
Was that experiment that you just saw acceptable within the bounds of bloodstain pattern analysis? No.
The first thing that really struck me was, as soon as he stepped into the stairway, he pulled the short leg open.
That’s not fair.
If the question is, "Can I take a step into the stairwell, hit somebody, and get spatter back into my shorts," then I have to do it with as natural a motion as possible.
One thing I did notice, the target was placed more towards the center of the landing as opposed back where the area of origin was actually calculated.
And, of course, that’s so that you can have one leg up.
That certainly could be one explanation, sure.
If it was back further, somebody'd be standing on the landing, they wouldn’t have their leg up, would they? I agree with that and it would also be difficult to hit that sponge.
[male voice.]
Are the experiments that you used consistent with what others in the field use to conduct analysis of bloodstain pattern - Yes.
Yes, they are.
- examinations? Is it consistent with the methodology that you learned 15, 16 years ago? Yes, it is.
- Is that true? - No, sir.
Is his methodology, as you saw in these experiments, what others, who are competent in the field of bloodstain pattern analysis use - to analyze crime scenes? - No, sir.
No, sir.
Hey! Happy birthday.
I didn't think you were coming.
[chuckling.]
Hey, good to see you.
I’m glad you were able to finally get here.
[chattering.]
[murmurs.]
You can't shake hands.
[bailiff.]
Remain seated.
Come to order.
Court is back in session.
Could you state your name and spell your last name for the court reporter, please? Ronald Thomas Guerette.
G-U-E-R-E-T-T-E.
Before becoming a private investigator, what was your profession? I was a police officer.
I was a police officer in Arvada, Colorado for a couple years.
Then I was a police officer in Charlotte for about ten years.
When did you first get involved in the case of State vs.
Michael Peterson? About a week after December the 9th.
Of what year? - Ten years ago.
2001.
- 2001? Alright.
[Rudolf.]
In connection with this hearing, did you review all of the discovery that was provided by the state of North Carolina in response to the orders that were issued by Judge Hudson? I did.
Well over 100,000 pages, many CDs, and disks, and - And you reviewed all of that? Alright.
- Unfortunately.
Did you review some reports that Duane Deaver either authored or was mentioned in? [Guerette.]
Yes, sir.
How many cases of bloodstain pattern analysis or evaluations have you actually worked? I don’t know for sure, but it would be somewhere around 200 that I have written reports on myself.
Now, that doesn’t include the number of cases that I have looked at as part of my training.
And I continue to provide help to others who are in training.
I help them with their cases and I wouldn’t necessarily write a report on that.
[Rudolf.]
Were you able to compare the results of your analysis of the reports that he wrote with his testimony? Yes, I was.
How many cases were there in total in which Agent Deaver just observed bloodstains either at the scene, at the SBI laboratory, or by looking at photos? Only 54.
In how many of those cases did Agent Deaver provide a bloodstain pattern analysis opinion? Thirty-six.
In how many of those cases did Agent Deaver actually go to the scene of an event? Well, he went to 17 different scenes between 1987 and 2003.
[Rudolf.]
How many cases were there in which Agent Deaver performed tests or experiments before the Peterson case? Three.
- Only three.
- [Rudolf.]
What was the date of the last experiment that Agent Deaver conducted on his own before the Peterson case? Back in 1991.
Eleven years before.
How many cases where there in which Agent Deaver, before the Peterson case, - found a precise point of impact? - Zero.
I think Agent Deaver also gave some testimony about falls - and investigating falls, correct? - That is correct.
And stairs.
Have you ever analyzed bloodstain evidence from a situation that was known to be a fall? Well yes, I have been to probably fifteen times where it was reported that a fall had occurred.
Probably five or six of those times I was in agreement that a fall was involved.
The rest of the those, I was not in agreement that a fall was involved or created the spatters, the patterns that were seen there.
Mr.
Guerette, how many of Agent Deaver's cases did you find in which he had gone to the scene of a fall to analyze it in some way? Well, I checked every word on every page in these documents and the word "falls" never occurred.
- That’s all I have, Your Honor.
 Thank you.
- Alright, you can come down, sir.
Hey! Good to see Oh, look at those teeth! So, are you alive, or what? Are you alive? Are you alive? You've been hobbling around all day.
Let's see you move! - Yes! Yes! I'm fine.
- [chuckling.]
It looks like it's going well.
Like, really well, right? It really is.
Yeah, it really is.
There's I mean, you never know, of course, but I would think he will rule in my favor.
Freaking, that'd be amazing, right? No! It's supposed to be the way it's supposed to be.
Either way, it's amazing.
Well, here it is! So with any kind of luck, I'll be out of here, you know soon.
Obviously, that's what we're all hoping for.
Yes.
But it'd be so amazing for that to happen.
- I know.
I know.
- Right? Yesterday, there was around 217 articles from local papers to the Washington Post.
On what? Well, they're just basically talking about how all the experts - are discrediting Deaver.
- Oh, yeah.
But he really did convict me with his points of origin and "the head had to be right here, and so, therefore, if the head's right here, all the blood had to have been hit and on there.
" - And that's just bullshit.
- Well, it's so convincing, right? When you can get so specific and say it happened here, there, - and there, it's - Yeah, there's no question.
And the thing with the shorts and the tennis shoes and what David picked up, and I had missed also, the second time was the first-degree murder charge, premeditation, only came because of Deaver.
Enough about me.
We've all seen me.
I'm sick of me.
Tell me about you, kid.
- Man, my life has changed night and day.
- [clattering.]
- I've got this best friend - [shouting.]
this girl named Jasmine, and she's lived there for - I got to come closer.
 I can't hear.
- [clanging.]
Yeah, so, you want to stand up? - You can stand up.
- Sit down.
They're making too much damn noise.
- Can't you hear that shit down there? - Yeah.
- It's buffered, it's buffered here.
- It's coming in my ear.
What the fuck are they doing? [rattling.]
Okay.
Well, when am I gonna become a grandfather again? I'm working on it, very hard, I'll have you know.
- I'm working on it, hard.
- Good! Yes, sir.
- [prison guard.]
Time's up, sir.
- Okay.
I gotta go.
- OK.
- I love you very much, Dad.
And put it there.
OK.
I love you and I'm so glad to see you again.
I'll see you.
I'll see you.
Alright.
[classical music playing.]
[chattering.]
Not to jump the gun in any way, but we want to try to be prepared - Right.
- just in case this goes our way.
- Which I don’t know is gonna happen.
- I understand.
I understand.
But anyway, so, we’ve put together about $300,000 worth of property.
Okay.
Actually, a little bit more than that, but enough property that will secure - a $300,000 bond.
- Okay.
Kerry has checked into electronic monitoring.
- Joan Miner - Right.
has agreed to allow you to stay there for as long as you need to.
OK.
And I need to talk with her to ask her if she’s also willing to be a third party custodian, which simply means, if you don’t come home one night - not only No.
- She goes to jail.
Not only would the monitor go off, but she would call - Okay.
- the sheriff and say, "Hey, - he's not here.
" - Okay.
- All right? - And what do you think? Seriously? I think the same thing I thought before the verdict came in, Mike.
Okay all right.
- I mean, what can I say? - I know.
And - we’ll finish today.
- Okay.
- All right? All right.
- All right.
- Hang in there.
All right.
- Okay, sure.
- Goodbye.
- Thank you, David.
Okay, all right.
[sighing.]
I feel like I’m coming out the other side of a really dark tunnel that I’ve been in with regard to this case.
And it’s different.
I don’t think anything will ever heal what I felt when that jury came back in October of 2003.
The [sighing.]
It was as devastating a moment as I’ve ever had professionally.
So, that won’t heal.
That won’t go away.
But I do feel like a weight has sort of been lifted a little bit, if we get a new trial.
Now if if we don’t get a new trial, I will feel crushed all over again.
And so, there’s a part of me that’s very scared about what’s gonna happen, because I don’t want to be crushed again.
[bailiff.]
Silence in the court.
Please be seated.
[Rudolf.]
Judge Hudson what do we know now that we didn’t, and couldn’t have, known in 2003? We know Duane Deaver misled the court and the jury about his training and experience, that he mislead the court and the jury about points of impact, that he mislead the court and the jury about the experiments, that he had a pattern and practice of having a strong bias for the state, writing misleading reports and giving misleading testimony.
[male voice.]
Now, you had indicated that you had worked 200 cases and that you had been involved in roughly 500 cases.
[Deaver.]
Yeah.
That was an estimate.
Let’s give Agent Deaver the benefit of the doubt and just put aside the 300 he claimed he did, which there's no reports for.
What about the 200 he claimed he did reports for? That was a lie.
There’s no nicer way to say it.
He lied.
He only went to seventeen scenes total, and none of those involved a fall.
Not a single one.
I have no doubt that a source of blood was out there, and that it was impacted, creating those, and that they are not on a surface.
[Rudolf.]
Mr.
Deaver brings, sort of, newmeaning to the phrase, "Often wrong, but never in doubt.
" He testified that way, as the court, I’m sure, will remember all the way through this trial, on and on and on.
We didn’t know at the time that he had left out of all his lab reports negative confirmatory results.
And the reason he didn’t put those negative confirmatory tests in was because he didn’t want the defense to have it, because they might "confuse” the jury by pointing out the truth.
He wasn't just an expert.
He actually became an advocate for the guilt of the people whose cases he worked on.
He did it in Mr.
Peterson’s case.
And we know he did it in Greg Taylor’s case back in 1991.
Not only does he do testing that’s not accepted by anyone in the field, but then with regard to one of the critical opinions he gives, he bases it entirely on this testing and testifies to the jury that that’s what proves Michael Peterson was there in the stairway, hitting Kathleen.
[Rudolf.]
And you relied on these experiments in reaching your opinions, - did you not? - Yes, I did.
As a matter of fact, there were several opinions that you’ve testified to in front of this jury that you wouldn’t have testified to without those experiments, correct? Yes.
For example, your opinion about the cause of the spatter inside of Mr.
Peterson’s shorts.
That was an opinion you wouldn’t have given without the experiments, right? Yes.
It all boils back to his ridiculous experiment and the little victory dance that Susie Barker did when he finally was able to get it into his shorts.
That’s the critical testimony that basically says it’s a beating and Michael Peterson committed it.
And there is no other evidence in this trial, Deborah Radisch included, who could ever say it was Michael Peterson.
It’s not just new evidence, Your Honor, it violates Mr.
Peterson’s constitutional right to due process.
You have a right not to be tried with fabricated evidence, and that's what happened in this case.
I’m therefore gonna ask the Court at this time, as hard as that is, given the length of this trial, to grant Michael Peterson a trial at which the evidence can be presented in a fair way, and an unbiased way, and then let a jury of twelve sort it out.
Thank you, Your Honor.
[Tracey Cline.]
One of the most important things about the criminal justice system is the verdict of the jury.
I will ask the Court, looking at the record, what is the newly discovered evidence? There is no newly discovered evidence.
The same old, same old, same old thing.
The defendant must show this court that, had they gotten all this information, that the jury would have decided differently.
The blood spatter, the blood patterns, the wiping of the blood off the wall, blood drops, spatter on shoes, spatter inside of pants.
When you look at the injuries to her head, when you look at how she laid in that stairwell, when you look at the sweatpants with a footprint on the back of her leg, and when the medical examiner testified, based on her training and experience, and now she’s a chief medical examiner, that this was not an accident, how in the world would a jury find it different because of Mr.
Deaver, a reasonable doubt, is reasoned based on common everyday sense.
It does not take a rocket scientist to look at Kathleen Peterson, the back of her head, the blood every which a way, way up in the air, on the ceiling, and say that that was an accident? Judge, I'll ask that you follow the outline of North Carolina Supreme Court and North Carolina Court of Appeals and uphold this righteous verdict.
Thank you, Your Honor.
All right.
Has Mr.
Peterson proven that Duane Deaver misled the court into allowing him to express certain opinions that you put up on the board? The answer to that question is yes.
Has Peterson proven that Duane Deaver misled the jury about the validity of certain of his arguments? The answer to that question is yes.
Was Deaver’s false and misleading testimony material? The answer to that question is yes.
Is a new trial required for newly discovered evidence, due process violations, and for perjured testimony? The answer to those questions is yes.
It will be the court’s order that Mr.
Peterson receive a new trial.
About time.
Come on.
Thank you.
[murmuring.]
[sobbing.]
[cameras clicking.]
Now it’s so good to have you back.
[laughing.]
What do you mean "now"? [muttering.]
It’s impossible to say what happened, but I know my father didn’t kill Kathleen.
I loved Kathleen more than anything, but he didn't do it.
He told me and I know it.
I believe it in my heart.
Thanks.
[sighing.]
Oh, God.
Oh! - Honest to God, thank you so much.
- You're welcome.
I appreciate it.
 It was just fantastic.
I’m I’ll be crying a while.
[chuckling.]
Well, Michael God, that was quick.
I did not believe it.
You know, I told you when I went to visit you the first time after the verdict Right.
- how devastated I was by that.
- I know.
You also told me it might be harder on you than me and I told you, "Wait a minute, you’re leaving in your goddamned BMW and I’m going back.
" [laughing.]
I understand, but having said that, - this has weighed on me for eight years.
- I know it has.
Oh, God, I’m so happy.
Jesus Christ.
- Eight years.
- I told your kids, "I’m getting tired of this.
He gets convicted and you guys cry.
He gets a new trial and you guys still cry.
" We’re a very emotional family.
Now, my goal is to walk you out of this courthouse this afternoon.
- We’ll see if we can do that.
We'll try.
- Oh, God.
That would be wonderful.
All right, all right.
We might have to carry you, but No.
I’m much better right now.
I suspect that some of that was just stress.
You think? Like my high blood pressure? Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you.
- Thank you.
- You can relax now.
Enjoy your gourmet lunch.
[sighing.]
Oh, listen to this Oh, fuck it.
[chuckling.]
- All right.
We’ll see you at 2:30.
- All right.
Okay.
- Thank you, David.
- Okay.
And you, too, Ron.
[exhaling.]
[sighing.]
- Oh, God! - [chuckling.]
Oh, God, oh, God, I’m so happy.
It wouldn't have happened without you guys.
You know that? I know that.
I know that I knew that from the very beginning, when I told you, Jean, the first time we talked, I told you I wanted it filmed.
I wanted a complete uh history of everything that was done.
And you’ve been there from the beginning.
I don't think I don't think any [sighing.]
There would be no retrial, I don’t think, without Well, with all that happened, but what you guys did has just been fantastic.
I’m so grateful.
I have kept everything inside of me for years, and years, and years.
I think I could go on a roll now and I could cry about Kathleen and I could cry about my mother, I could cry about my father, I could cry about Margaret and Martha Clayton and Todd.
Oh, all the things that we’ve all gone through and suffered.
They would just There’s just this ocean of tears inside of me and [sighing.]
[exhaling.]
Now, I just want to just breathe.
[sighing.]
[classical music playing.]
We went to the gas station today and Margaret and Martha were on the front page of the newspaper, right? - But in a good way this time.
- Yeah, we were hugging.
So, we had Margaret hold up the newspaper in the middle of a public location.
Like, "Margaret, come on, take a photo.
" And something we would have never done before.
There were a number of people who came up, like the photographer that’s like, "I work for a newspaper, I’m not allowed to have an opinion, - but I’m really happy for you!" - Yes, so many times.
[laughing.]
Just walking around Durham, it's like you feel that label - of Peterson over your head.
- Yeah.
You're concerned that people look at you a certain way, But, like, for the first time, I was standing up - Yeah! - walking around, like, "Peterson, yeah!” It feels good to be in Durham now.
- Yeah.
It's not sad.
- [Todd.]
We went to the cemetery today.
- [Clayton.]
Yeah - Yeah.
- It was beautiful.
- Yeah, it's gorgeous.
- The beautiful tree, the roses.
Yeah.
- The rosebush.
That’s great! It was really different this time.
I mean, it was sad, but it was also amazing.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, to have that Like, I mean, 'cause it's so fresh, like the memory of her death and the funeral, but to go there with this new [chattering.]
feeling was just it was pretty remarkable - [Clayton.]
Yeah.
- to be there.
[walkie-talkie beeping.]
- Nine eighty-six.
- [radio.]
Nine eighty-six.
We’re taking you to get dressed up.
Wait right here.
See that mirrored dome down there? Well, you're gonna put on your coat and a neck tie.
Okay.
[muttering.]
- It might be in the bag.
Okay.
- I got a belt right here.
I got you.
And my shoe laces, for the tennis shoes.
- The shoe laces are in the bag over there.
- Okay.
[chattering.]
- Move! - [woman.]
Yeah.
[chatter.]
I’m right in the Durham County Jail.
He’s not even here yet.
[baby cooing.]
[chuckling.]
[chatter continuing.]
[door opening.]
[radio chatter.]
[metal clanking.]
[clanking continues.]
[gate opening.]
[gate closing.]
[helicopter whirring.]
[cameras clicking.]
[woman.]
Go, Michael! Do it, Michael! Over eight years 2,988 days, as a matter of fact, that I counted, for an opportunity to have a retrial.
I want to thank Judge Hudson for giving me that opportunity, so that I can vindicate myself and prove my innocence, in a fair trial this time.
I want to thank all the people who have supported me from all over the world.
It’s impossible for me to express my gratitude.
What I want to do now, though, is to spend time with my family and with my children, and certainly at a later time, I’d be happy to talk with everybody and share more.
Thank you very, very much.
[reporter.]
Mr.
Peterson, what's the first thing you plan to do tonight? [murmurs indistinctly.]
There you go, Dad.
Please come in.
[woman.]
Oh, Michael! [laughing.]
[Michael.]
I know! Hi, guys! - [rattling.]
- [Michael sighing.]
[ankle monitor clicking.]
[Martha.]
So, I’m interested in how much buzzing this [Michael.]
It’ll keep you up all night.
[Martha.]
Well, I was thinking something [woman.]
I can honestly say I tried it and the only time it buzzed, the transmitter buzzed when I needed to charge it, I forgot to plug it in.
- [Martha.]
Oh, good.
- [woman.]
Mr.
Peterson, this paperwork pretty much says that this is electronic monitoring equipment that belongs to Michael King’s company, Reliant Monitoring.
We will make you a copy and make What is today? - 12/15, that ought to be right.
- Today is 12/15.
[muttering.]
"This is your current address.
" [chatter.]
I'll be able to finally become a Buddhist! It should be okay.
Om! - Spoiled already.
- Oh, he’s a momma’s boy.
Oh, right.
We’ll change that.
We’ll change that.
[laughing.]
Well, you guys both ended up momma’s boys too, right? Only this guy right here.
[chuckling.]
[sighing.]
- Well, champagne.
- So, champagne.
[chatter.]
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate what you all have done [baby moaning.]
and how long you have fought and stayed by my side, so - To you! Thank you.
- [baby whining.]
Thank you, my love.
Thank you.
Thank you, guys.
Thank you.
- [Todd.]
Thank you.
- [Michael.]
Thank you.
[Todd.]
And then a second toast to the family: Margaret, Martha, Clay, everybody else.
You guys just took this so well.
You were in there.
You were suffering, but there’s a lot of emotional anguish and mental anguish that we have too.
And you guys were just incredible, your emotional spirits, they never wavered, so cheers - to you guys.
- [Michael.]
La familia! - [everyone.]
La familia! - [chuckling.]
Hear, hear.
 Santé.
[Michael.]
Ching, ching! - [everyone.]
Santé.
- Santé, santé.
[classical music playing.]
I can’t share my experience for the last eight years with anybody.
They wouldn’t understand it.
They have no way of knowing what that means.
I could say, "Well, I was locked away for eight years and I didn’t have any privacy or any freedom.
I was in prison for eight years.
" People could say, "You were in prison for eight years, it must have been terrible!" And you think, "Yeah it was.
" But you have no real understanding of that.
And I can’t tell you that.
No matter what I tell you can make you understand and realize that.
And so, therefore you just your world is very different from everybody else’s world.
I wanted to come back to who I was.
But I can't.
So, I’m still working about me in this world out there.
Then with the realization also, "Oh, don’t ever forget, Mike, they're trying to send you back there.
They still think that you’re guilty, many of them.
They want you go to back there for the rest of your life.
They want you to die in prison.
" So, while you’re trying to move along, always on your shoulder is this [growling.]
heavy burden.
Or, in my case, on my foot, the monitoring device.
- David! - How are you, sir? Good.
Fine, fine.
I'm fine.
Have you shrunk a little? I’m still taller than you are.
I don’t care how damn much I’ve shrank! [laughing.]
[Rudolf.]
You look better than the last time.
Well, shit! If I was worse, I’d be up there in Maplewood! Nothing much is gonna happen in your case, no matter what, for the rest of this year.
Um, after that, depending on what the Attorney General’s office decides, what the Court of Appeals decides, - we could be back in - Right.
putting it on the docket for trial sometime next year.
And then of course, the question becomes, do you want to retry this case, or do you want to see if some sort of a resolution can be negotiated, and there’s lots of different ways to do that.
So, there’s a no-contest plea, where you simply are saying, "I’m not gonna contest this.
" There’s an Alford plea, where you basically say, "I’m pleading guilty, but I’m not pleading guilty because I’m guilty.
I’m pleading guilty because I don’t want to go through another trial.
" I know guys in prison who have taken an Alford Plea and said, basically, "Fuck it.
I don’t want to go on any further.
" - Yeah.
- "Just end this damn thing right now.
" But what that means is you’re guilty.
- I mean, on the record - On the record.
- you're guilty.
- On the record you're guilty.
Is there any way to do it: I’m not guilty.
I don’t care about any money, I don’t care whatever.
I mean, I’m gonna go along with what you say on this.
Could the DA decide that he’s just gonna drop it? He could but I don’t think he’s gonna do that.
So realistically speaking, the only three options are a No Contest Plea, an Alford Plea, or go to trial.
Even going to trial doesn’t guarantee innocence.
No, I understand, but it gives me an option.
The other two, there’s no option.
You’re basically guilty.
And you see, the whole thing is, I didn't do it, so why would I even do this? - Right.
- Uh - But - I think, we don’t need to discuss that today.
I mean But nothing's going to be until - Oh, it's gonna be - maybe in the middle of next year.
- At least.
- At least? Nothing’s gonna happen quickly here.
Jesus.
Okay.
Alright.
[birds chirping.]
[breeze blowing.]
I can remember, oh, when I was a very young man, I thought, "I’m going to live a life with as few regrets as possible.
" And now I’m getting to be a pretty old man.
And I look back and, oh, Lord, there are some regrets.
"Oh, I wish that I wish I had done that differently.
I wish I hadn’t done that.
I wish" Yes, it’s filled with regrets, but in the balance I’ve got these wonderful children.
I had a wonderful relationship with Kathleen.
I was loved and I loved.
And I still do.
And I guess that’s about the best you can say about a person.
Their capacity to love, and mine is is infinite.
Honestly, it gets bigger all the time.
And I can look at my children and think, "Yeah, they love me.
" What else do you want? [classical music playing.]
[birds chirping.]
Did you plant the roses? No, I didn’t.
No.
No, no.
Ow.
I can get this one.
Okay.
Here.
[Michael muttering.]
[Michael sighing.]
Hm.
Ten years later.
I know.
[sighing.]
Still hurts.
It’ll always hurt.
 It’ll never go away.
Ever.
None of it ever goes away.
[sighing.]
You never forget it.
Always pain, always pain.
[theme music playing.]
[Michael.]
Come on, dear, let’s go.