60 Minutes (1968) s45e17 Episode Script
Attack in Algeria | 40 Million Mistakes | Lincoln
Three weeks ago, al Qaeda fighters launched a bold, deadly attack on a gas processing plant in North Africa and killed 37 foreign workers.
Survivors said the assault was well-planned and well-executed.
Though details about the identities and motives of the invaders remain murky, the attack is evidence that the threat from al Qaeda is still potent.
And the group's goal remains the same: to attack Americans and other Westerners where ever they may be, even on a barren patch of the Sahara desert.
There were eight Americans at the Algerian gas plant when the terrorists struck.
Three died.
Five survived.
Tonight you'll hear for the first time from three of them.
Steve Wysocki: I was a hundred percent sure I was going to die.
Charlie Rose: So each of you thought you were going to die? Steve Wysocki: Yes.
Nick Frazier: Absolutely certain.
Mark Cobb: There was no doubt in my mind that a lot of people were going to die through this event.
The event -- a three-pronged attack -- unfolded before dawn on Wednesday, January 16.
Thirty-two al Qaeda fighters stormed this sprawling natural gas field.
They sprayed buildings and vehicles with automatic weapons and launched rocket-propelled grenades.
These three men -- Nick Frazier, Mark Cobb and Steve Wysocki -- all worked for the oil company BP, all witnessed the simultaneous assaults.
They showed us where they were on a satellite photo of the gas field.
Steve Wysocki: My office was approximately right there.
Wysocki, an oil and gas well expert, was at the main production plant in a small office building.
Mark Cobb: I was actually located in this building right here.
Cobb, BP's manager at the facility was in his office near the residential camp, home to 800 workers, mostly Algerians.
Frazier, a petroleum engineer, was on a bus bound for a nearby town.
It had just pulled out of the main gate.
Nick Frazier: I heard something.
And my initial reaction was, "Oh no, we've blown a tire.
We're going to be here forever.
" Charlie Rose: It sounded like a blown tire? Nick Frazier: Yeah.
Then I looked out the left hand window.
And I saw dozens and dozens and dozens of red streaks pass the left-hand side of the bus.
Charlie Rose: You were under attack? Nick Frazier: Yes.
People started to scramble.
And then bullets started to come through the front windshield.
Everyone was, as fast as they could, getting to where they could lay down in the walkway of the seats and get as flat as possible.
I don't know.
Everyone was so calm.
You just--you become so calm.
It wasn't how I thought I would re-- have reacted at all.
Charlie Rose: No screaming? No-- Nick Frazier: It was very silent, very organized.
It was as if we had trained for it, but we hadn't.
You could hear bullets starting to hit tthe side of the bus.
And it wasn't one, two, or three bullets.
It was hundreds.
It was just constant on the side of the bus.
I texted my wife, "The bus is under attack.
Call the embassy.
This is real.
Do not call me.
" Charlie Rose: You have to be wanting to tell her, "If I don't get back, I want you to know everything I feel.
" Nick Frazier: I didn't do that.
And part of it might be because I didn't want to give up hope.
And another because I didn't want her to think that I was going to die.
I think between those two reasons, I never really said goodbye.
Algerian soldiers came to the rescue from a nearby base and battled the militants for three hours.
Nick Frazier: They saved our lives.
They returned fire.
Heavy, heavy, heavy gunfire.
They stood by the bus and shot back and kept the terrorists from getting onto the bus, which is, I'm assuming, their intent.
Finally, the soldiers took Frazier and the others on the bus to safety.
For Nick Frazier, the terror was over.
But here, at this Spartan work camp where Mark Cobb lived and worked, a second group of al Qaeda fighters had seized control.
Mark Cobb: My first reaction was to call my boss in London.
Charlie Rose: What was the message? Mark Cobb: My message to him was very simple.
"We're under a major terrorist attack.
" Charlie Rose: You felt it, at that moment? Mark Cobb: Oh, it was clear.
I was guessing that I was hearing gunfire involving probably kind of intensity.
By that point in time, I could hear very clearly gunfire inside the camp itself.
So I knew the camp had been attacked.
And I was looking out the window myself.
And I saw three terrorists in the parking lot.
And that's the point in time where I realized I needed to hide.
Charlie Rose: Had it occurred to you by this time, "I'm an American, an expat.
I'm a manager here.
Maybe they're coming for me"? Mark Cobb: Absolutely.
I knew as the highest-ranking American on the site, I would be a prize.
They put the highest value on American hostages, British hostages and French hostages.
Cobb gathered his staff in one room and locked the door.
He crouched behind a filing cabinet as his coworkers hid him.
Mark Cobb: I sat in a small ball in the corner.
And they took all the maps.
And they laid them over the top of my head.
And they stacked the maps in front, where the small gap was between the metal cabinet.
And, basically hid me.
Charlie Rose: Did you feel safe? Mark Cobb: No.
If they started poking at the maps with an AK-47 or peeling maps off the top of me, I knew it was over with, yeah.
I heard them kick open the front door.
That's I guess at the point, in all honesty, that I felt pure terror.
I felt I was going to be taken.
So at that point, I elected to begin to make my calls to my family and say my goodbyes.
Charlie Rose: Who did you call? Mark Cobb: I called my daughter-in-law.
My son works for BP in the Gulf of Mexico.
He was on a rig.
He was on shift.
So I called her.
And I told her-- Charlie Rose: What did you say? Mark Cobb: I told her that I loved her.
I told her that I loved my grandbaby.
I told her to please get a hold of my son and to tell him that, you know, I couldn't ever ask for a better son.
And my cell phone buzzed.
And I looked down.
It was my son calling me.
He called me back, very emotional.
Asked me if-- was it really that bad? And I said, "Yeah, it was, son.
" Charlie Rose: You're whispering? Mark Cobb: Yeah, I'm whispering.
I said, "I'm not sure I'm going to make it.
" And I told him I had to get off the phone, because then they were kicking the doors in closer to where I was, the room I was hiding in.
And I hung up the phone with him.
Charlie Rose: Can you hear your heartbeat in a moment like this? Mark Cobb: Oh yeah, especially sitting in that corner.
Dead still, you know? You don't even want to breathe deeply, because it might rustle the paper on top of you.
Charlie Rose: And what are you hearing? Mark Cobb: I'm hearing the distinct sound of a boot going into a door.
But by the grace of God, there was only two doors they didn't kick in in that office building.
And one of those two was the door I was behind.
Charlie Rose: Why do you think that's true? Mark Cobb: I have no idea.
I have no idea why they didn't kick that door in.
After hiding for several hours, Cobb decided to risk an escape.
He scurried to the perimeter fence, dove through a hole, and ran for his life across the desert to the Algerian military base a half-mile away.
Both Cobb and Frazier got out.
Cobb's friend, fellow Texan Victor Lovelady, was not so lucky.
He was taken hostage at the camp where Cobb was hiding.
At the massive gas plant up the road, a third group of al Qaeda terrorists marauded through the giant maze of pipes and machinery, looking for more hostages.
Steve Wysocki: We started hearing voices on our radios that didn't belong on our radios.
The terrorists had-- they had captured some of our radios, if you will, from people and they were starting to use our radios to communicate with themselves.
And I looked out the front door and I saw a man that didn't belong there starting to come up the steps wearing camouflage fatigues.
And I took off running.
And one of the guys literally grabbed me and threw me under my desk in my hole.
And then everybody got very quiet.
Steve Wysocki was curled into the corner of his cubicle.
On the other side of the wall, another American, Gordon Rowan, took shelter in a bare conference room.
Intruders searched the building, kicking down doors.
Steve Wysocki: I was laying there trying to be just absolutely as quiet and as still as I could.
My greatest fear was that I would sneeze or would move a boot or something like that and make a sound.
I heard an exchange which I didn't fully recognize at first.
And then, the response to the question was, "My name is Gordon, I'm an American.
" And I knew Gordon had been captured.
And the response from the terrorist was, "You are welcome then.
" In English.
"Now, we've got you now.
" "Gordon" was Gordon Rowan, Wysocki and Frazier's boss, and one of the most senior engineers in the gas field.
And he was in the hands of the terrorists.
Steve Wysocki: I was wearing my boots, and every time you touch-- seemed like you touched the side of this little compartment I was in, it sounded like a drum, and it scared me that I was just afraid to move.
After two nights in hiding, Wysocki and a few others, made a break for freedom.
Steve Wysocki: And we found that there was a spot in the fence that was damaged that we could go through.
We got through the fence and we continued across the open desert.
Charlie Rose: There is this speculation, it's about the plants themselves and the gas that was there, that perhaps the motivation was to go in there and they wanted to know how the process works and how the plants work because they wanted to create a huge explosion to get attention.
Mark Cobb: I don't think they understood technically how the plant - Charlie Rose: "They" being-- Mark Cobb: --operates.
Charlie Rose: --the terrorists? Mark Cobb: The terrorists.
I don't think they understood technically how the facility operated.
But I think they understood enough to know that there was high-pressure gas in there and they put bombs in the right places that they could create what w-- Charlie Rose: A huge explosion.
Mark Cobb: A spectacular, as it's sometimes referred in security parlance, so.
Charlie Rose: Seen around the world from the highest point in the sky? Mark Cobb: Absolutely.
The plant had shut down at the first sound of trouble.
The terrorists apparently unable to restart it.
But they did detonate a bomb; a vehicle packed with explosives.
It killed most of them and seven of their hostages including Gordon Rowan.
Two other Americans also died.
Fred Buttaccio suffered a fatal heart attack at the start of the four-day siege.
Cobb's friend, Victor Lovelady, was killed a day later along with several other hostages.
The terrorists were trying to move key hostages from the camp to the plant.
Algerian helicopters obliterated the convoy leaving the vehicles in which they were captive charred and twisted.
After four days, it was over.
Survivors and friends gathered for Gordon Rowan's funeral a week ago.
Charlie Rose: People died.
Friends of yours died, you know.
You feel bad but, by the grace of God, there but, you know, why me? How did I survive and someone else didn't? Mark Cobb: You can't help but ask that question.
Why was I able to escape? You know, why was Nick not shot on that bus? I don't know.
I don't think any of us know.
Steve Wysocki: When I heard the guys in our building get taken, I'm like, "Why couldn't I have done something to help?" And I'm guilt-- feel guilty for being-- feeling that I was paralyzed with fear and not do anything.
But-- and I'm especially guilty because they lost their lives.
And I didn't.
Mark Cobb: All of us got quite a bit of time ahead of us to go through this and relive these memories and the nightmares that we have at night and the sleepless nights that we have.
Charlie Rose: Nightmares.
Nightmares? Mark Cobb: Yeah.
The nightmares for me are all the same thing.
It's the sound of those footsteps as they came down that hallway towards that door.
Charlie Rose: Coming for you? Mark Cobb: Coming for me.
Whether we like it or not, we live in an age where much of what goes on in our daily lives is monitored, collected and sold to interested parties -- our driving records, our medical history, our Internet traffic and, most importantly, our credit information.
A mistake on your credit report can cost you money.
It can increase the interest you pay on loans, prevent you from getting a mortgage or buying a car, landing a job or getting a security clearance.
Its not uncommon.
A new government study to be released tomorrow indicates as many as 40 million Americans have a mistake on their credit report.
Twenty million have significant mistakes.
And our own investigation of the credit reporting industry shows that those mistakes can be nearly impossible to get removed from your record.
Consumer credit reporting is a four billion dollar a year industry dominated by three large companies: Experian, TransUnion and Equifax.
They keep files on 200 million Americans and traffic in our financial reputations.
They make their money gathering information from people we do business with and selling it to banks, merchants, insurance companies, and employers and they use it to make judgments on our creditworthiness and reliability.
But now the reliability of the industry is being questioned in an 8-year Federal Trade Commission study to be released tomorrow.
Jon Leibowitz is the chairman.
Jon Leibowitz: Here's what we found.
Some pretty troubling information.
One out of five Americans has an error on their credit report.
And one out of 10 has an error on their credit report that might lower their credit score.
Steve Kroft: I'm trying to think of another industry where a 20 percent error rate would be acceptable.
That's a pretty high error rate.
Jon Leibowitz: It's a pretty high error rate.
Mike DeWine: I think the more we look at this and the more the American people know about this, the madder they're going to get.
Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine has opened his own investigation into the credit reporting industry which for years has blamed mistakes on banks and merchants that provide them with bad information.
But DeWine argues that the fault lies with the industry for what he says are clear violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
Steve Kroft: Do these companies have a legal responsibility to make sure that the information is accurate? Mike DeWine: The federal law says that if you believe that there is a mistake, you can go to them and they have an obligation to do a reasonable investigation.
They're not doing a reasonable investigation.
They're not doing an investigation at all.
Every day, DeWine's office fields calls from desperate constituents who can't get the credit reporting agencies to answer their questions or correct mistakes on their report like paid bills listed as delinquent, closed accounts listed as open, and bad debts that belong to other people with similar names or social security numbers.
Mike DeWine: The problem is not that they make mistakes.
It's they won't fix the mistakes.
It literally is like this-- you know, guy behind the curtain in "The Wizard of Oz.
" You really don't know what he's doing.
It really is a secret operation that is so hard to crack.
Eight million people a year file disputes about their credit report which usually requires a visit to the Experian, TransUnion or Equifax websites.
They are primarily designed to sell you premium products, not resolve a dispute which was what I was trying to do.
There's a toll-free number you can call which is likely to connect you to someone on a faraway continent.
[Kevin at credit reporting agency: Thank you for calling.
My name is Kevin.
How may I help you? Steve Kroft: Where are you located? Kevin at credit reporting agency: India.
Steve Kroft: India?.]
But regardless of where they are or who you talk to, they won't be much help.
Steve Kroft: So, really, you can't do anything for me.
I've just been talking to you for do is to tell me to fill it out online.
[Employee at credit reporting agency: Yes, Mr.
Kroft.
Steve Kroft: Okay, thank you.
.]
Besides the toll-free number, they also give you a post office box address where you can send a letter and documents supporting your claim.
In each case, it's extremely unlikely that anyone with the authority to resolve your dispute will ever actually see it.
Ask Sandra Cortez, a California accountant, whose credit report confused her with an international drug trafficker.
It took her five years to get it fixed.
Or David Smith, a retired Army officer whose credit report listed a bankruptcy that wasn't his and triggered a foreclosure proceeding against his house in South Carolina.
He is still dealing with the fallout.
Or Judy Thomas, a trauma nurse with a horror story worthy of Hitchcock or Kafka.
Judy Thomas: There's nobody to go to.
There's nobody.
You just keep making phone calls and you just keep writing disputes and you keep sending them your Social Security number.
And they don't care.
Thomas, who manages two medical centers near Cleveland, says it all began in 1999 when she went shopping for a new dress and applied for a store credit card to get a 15 percent discount.
She was denied.
Steve Kroft: Was that the first time you'd ever been denied credit? Judy Thomas: Yes, very first time.
Steve Kroft: Ever? Judy Thomas: Ever, ever.
But certainly not the last.
It became a regular occurrence.
The personal credit reports she got from Experian, TransUnion and Equifax were all clean, and without blemish.
Yet she kept getting rejected and couldn't find out why.
Judy Thomas: I would get a consumer report and it would look fine.
I would go to the bank.
And they would tell me, "Oh no, you have all this debt.
" But no one would tell me what was on there.
Steve Kroft: They wouldn't tell you what the debt was? And they wouldn't give you a copy of the report that they had.
Judy Thomas: No.
No.
It took Judy Thomas several years to discover what almost no one knows -- that the credit reports the agencies send to you are different than the ones that they sell to banks, merchants and mortgage brokers.
And she only found that out when a loan officer left her file on his desk and walked out of the room.
Steve Kroft: And what did you see? Judy Thomas: I saw debt from Utah Medical Center.
I saw debt from a veterinarian clinic in Utah.
I saw collections for a Judith Kendall.
Steve Kroft: Judith Kendall, not Judy Thomas? Judy Thomas: Correct.
Steve Kroft: What's going through your mind? Judy Thomas: What the hell's she doing on my credit report? What the hell is her debt doing on my credit report? Steve Kroft: You think this would be a fairly simple thing to get straightened out? Judy Thomas: You would think.
You would think.
Judy Thomas (in kitchen): This is my Judy Thomas versus Judith Kendall file.
Instead it became a six-year battle with credit agencies, requiring box loads of correspondence to try and prove that she was Judy Thomas, not Judith Kendall, all to no avail.
Steve Kroft: You got a lot of time invested in this.
How important are these documents? Judy Thomas: It's my life.
There are logs of daily phone calls to dispute centers, hundreds of letters to Experian, Equifax and TransUnion, even correspondence from Judith's Kendall's creditors in Utah, acknowledging that the debts on her credit report aren't hers.
Judy Thomas: I would get letters back from these companies, saying, "This, in fact, is not you.
" Steve Kroft: You still couldn't get it off your credit report? Judy Thomas: No, I sent copies to the credit bureaus.
And they would come back as mine, verified, verified.
I also hired an-- a local attorney to try and straighten it out.
We had everything certified that this is Judy Thomas.
This is where I live.
I've never gone by the name of Kendall.
I've never even been to Utah, let alone owing a cable company in Utah.
Steve Kroft: And what happened? Judy Thomas: Nothing.
Steve Kroft: Nothing? Judy Thomas: Nothing.
Steve Kroft: What kind of problems did this cause for you? Judy Thomas: I couldn't refinance.
I couldn't take advantage of the interest rates.
I couldn't get a new-- I couldn't get a car.
I couldn't cosign for my children's student loans.
And I'd worked hard for my credit.
I was-- and these people were taking it away from me.
Finally Judy Thomas took the only recourse available to her.
She sued Equifax and TransUnion in federal court.
And after a year-long battle, the credit reporting agencies settled for an undisclosed sum and promised to clean up her file.
Steve Kroft: Did you think it was going to take a federal lawsuit? Judy Thomas: Heck no.
It just takes a human being going, "Wow, this isn't Judith Kendall.
Let me fix this.
" That's all they had to do.
But as we discovered, that almost never happens.
If you challenge a credit report and mail your information to a post office box in the United States, the dispute will likely be investigated in India, or the Philippines or South America.
We traveled 5,000 miles to the Chilean capital of Santiago where we tracked down three former Experian employees.
Carolina Herrera, Rodolfo Carrasco and Enzo Valdivia were all dispute agents at Experian's national consumer assistance center although they say they weren't able offer consumers much assistance.
Steve Kroft: So, if somebody had a problem with their credit report, they would send the complaint, and it would end up with you? Many voices: Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Steve Kroft: So how many of these did you have to do a day? Rodolfo Carrasco: Ninety.
Steve Kroft: Ninety? Carolina Herrera: Ninety, yeah.
Steve Kroft: Did you consider yourself investigators? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have any way to investigate these claims? Carolina Herrera: No, we didn't.
You can't call the person.
Steve Kroft: You can't pick up the phone and call them? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have phones? Many voices: No.
No.
Steve Kroft: Could you email them? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have the authority to say, "Wait a minute," after looking at somebody's file, and say that, you know, "This is a-- somebody made a mistake; this person doesn't owe this money"? Rodolfo Carrasco: We didn't have that power.
All they did was read the disputes and reduce them to a two-digit code like "never late" or "not mine.
" It was then sent with a two or three-line summary and no documentation back to the bank or department store that furnished the original information.
Steve Kroft: If there was a difference of opinion between the creditor and the person who was filing the complaint, how was it usually resolved in the-- in favor of the creditor? Enzo Valdivia: Yeah.
The creditor was always right.
Rodolfo Carrasco: Mostly, we took for granted the word of the bank.
If the bank said, "Hey, this guy owes $100," so it is.
Sylvia Goldsmith: None of us have ever interviewed anybody in Chile from Experian.
We've got a federal court ordering them to bring these people forward.
And we're still waiting.
Much of what's known about the inner workings of the consumer credit agencies comes out of lawsuits filed by Len Bennett and Sylvia Goldsmith, who have subpoenaed company records and deposed employees and executives.
They say under the current system, there is no way for people like Judy Thomas to get their problems solved.
Steve Kroft: So all these people who take the time to meticulously document a case that the bill isn't theirs or the bill has been paid -- that is never seen by anybody? Len Bennett: It's not seen by anyone who considers it in determining whether or not information will be removed from a credit report.
Steve Kroft: It's not forwarded onto the person who has the complaint with you? Len Bennett: No.
It is never forwarded on, never forwarded onto the creditor.
Sylvia Goldsmith: We can get a jury verdict for $1 million.
That's chump change to some of these bureaus.
They would rather pay a verdict in $1 million than to actually go in and change the policies and procedures that they have, because that's much more expensive to them.
Len Bennett: I can say this.
Without qualification, the dispute procedures used by the credit reporting agencies uniformly used completely fail to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
Courts have found that.
The Federal Trade Commission has found that.
It's not even a close call.
Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine agreed.
Mike DeWine: I think the industry's a mess.
And I think the impact it has on real people is just unconscionable.
Steve Kroft: You think they're breaking the law? Mike DeWine: I think they're breaking the law.
There is no doubt in my mind that they are breaking the law.
We wanted to talk to Equifax, TransUnion and Experian.
But like most consumers, we were unsuccessful.
The agencies referred us to the spokesman for their lobbying group in Washington.
He too declined our request for an on-camera interview, but did provide a written statement citing an industry sponsored survey that showed 95 percent of its customers were satisfied with the dispute process.
The industry maintains it is in compliance with federal law.
With the 150th anniversary of the Civil War, we're going through another Abraham Lincoln revival.
Not that interest in him ever really fades: there've been close to 16,000 books written about him and now, Steven Spielberg's movie "Lincoln" which has been nominated for The film is filled with things about our 16th president that we -- who aren't Lincoln scholars -- didn't know.
It's Daniel Day-Lewis, whose been nominated for an Oscar for best actor, who brings the great man to life.
[Lincoln: I can't listen to this anymore.
I can't accomplish a goddamn thing of any human meaning or worth until we cure ourselves of slavery and end this pestilential war.
.]
Daniel Day-Lewis: I never, ever felt that depth of love for another human being that I never met.
And that's I think probably the effect that Lincoln has on most people that take the time to discover him.
After agreeing to take the part, Daniel Day-Lewis spent a year reading and doing research into Lincoln the man.
Daniel Day-Lewis: He does feel as if he's carved in stone, when you first approach him, because of the way he was as a man.
As you begin to discover him, it's almost as if he welcomes you in.
[Lincoln: Tell us the news from the Hill.
Ashley: Ah, well the news Lincoln: Why for instance is this thus, and what is the reason for this thusness.
.]
So much about Daniel Day-Lewis' portrait rings true to the man including things most of us didn't know: like what Lincoln sounded like.
Daniel Day-Lewis: There are numerous references to him having a high-pitched voice.
Lesley Stahl: Did that influence you? Daniel Day-Lewis: It's a clue, I suppose.
All clues are potentially helpful.
[Lincoln: And come February the first, I intend to sign the Thirteenth Amendment.
.]
Doris Kearns Goodwin: That's definitely the way people who heard him speak at the time said he spoke.
So somehow he mastered that voice.
Even Lincoln historians, like Doris Kearns Goodwin, who was a consultant on the movie, say the portrait -- down to the high voice -- was eerily authentic because of Daniel Day-Lewis' method acting.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: Steven told me later that he never came out of that voice until after the filming was over.
Lesley Stahl: So the whole time they were filming he stayed in character - which is his method? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Absolutely.
"Steven" is Steven Spielberg the director, who decided that the movie would be only about the last four months of Lincoln's life when -- worried that the Emancipation Proclamation would be voided after the war -- he pushes for passage of the 13th Amendment to end slavery once and for all.
Steven Spielberg: What he was seeing was that the war was going to come to a close and once the war was over he would have a snowball's chance in hell to pass this.
He needed to get this thing through with great haste.
Here's something most of us didn't know: Lincoln was a hardball, down and dirty kind of politician.
To get the amendment passed, he used ruthless, even deceptive tactics.
Lesley Stahl: Lincoln, our great, great hero, was a great horse trader and did get his hands dirty.
Steven Spielberg: At the same time it was noble and grand, but it was also dark and murky which is sometimes-- Lesley Stahl: A little scummy.
Steven Spielberg: -- what all politics are.
Lesley Stahl: But they were buying votes.
Steven Spielberg: There's no money involved.
They were trading administration jobs called patronage jobs, to get a yes vote to abolish slavery.
[Seward: But we can't buy the votes for the amendment.
It's too important.
Lincoln: I said nothing of buying anything.
We need 20 votes was all I said.
Start of my second term, plenty of positions to fill.
.]
Lincoln did everything in the politician's handbook to get the amendment passed: cajoled, arm-twisted, negotiated and he bullied his cabinet.
[Lincoln: Buzzard's guts, man.
I am the president of the United States of America, clothed in immense power.
You will procure me these votes.
.]
And meanwhile the war, the Civil War, was continuing to take the ever-mounting number of lives which Lincoln saw with great guilt.
The scene in the movie when he rides through the aftermath of the battle of Petersburg is heartbreaking.
Lesley Stahl: Did that happen? Did he really go to the battlefield? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Lincoln actually went to the battlefield about a dozen times during the war.
He needed to walk amidst the thinning ranks of the soldiers.
He physically felt every life that was lost was on his soul, on his heart.
[Lincoln: Some weariness has bit at my bones.
I've never seen the like of it before.
What I've seen today.
.]
What saved Lincoln during the war, and throughout his life, was his sense of humor and the stories he loved to tell that he often enjoyed more than his audience.
[Lincoln: I heard tell once of a Jefferson City lawyer who had a parrot that waked him each morning crying out, "Today's the day the world shall end, as Scripture has foretold.
" And one day the lawyer shot him for the sake of peace and quiet, I presume.
Thus fulfilling, for the bird at least, it's prophecy.
.]
Lesley Stahl: One of the things that I loved in the movie, several times, where he'd start-- you start telling a funny story in almost inappropriate moments.
Daniel Day-Lewis: Right.
Lesley Stahl: And everybody rolls their eyes, "Oh God, here he goes again--" Daniel Day-Lewis: Yea, Stanton, his secretary of war, was always apoplectic.
And that is known, that's a historical fact, that Stanton just couldn't stand him telling stories.
[Lincoln: There is one Ethan Allen story that I'm very partial to.
.]
Stanton: No, you're going to tell a story.
I don't believe that I can bear to listen to another on of your stories right now.
.]
Lesley Stahl: Was he just a supremely confident man, or was it that he wasn't a confident person? Doris Kearns Goodwin: It's a mystery in a certain sense, because he is, at one level, he's extremely confident.
I think from the time he was young he knew that he was in some sense a genius.
But when he was young he was so worried that opportunities would never allow him to exercise his talents.
And he was hugely ambitious.
He wanted to be remembered for having done something that would stand the test of time.
So boy, has that been achieved -- saving the union, ending slavery, and living forever in history.
Pretty good.
Spielberg went to great lengths to make his movie look as historically accurate as possible: here's first lady Mary Todd Lincoln; here's Sally Field who put on 25 pounds to play the part.
This is abolitionist Thaddeus Stevens and this is Tommy Lee Jones in the role.
And here's Secretary of Ear Edwin Stanton --- played by Bruce McGill.
And rooms in the White House were recreated.
Spielberg went out and found first editions of books Lincoln read.
Lesley Stahl: I heard the same rug.
By the same, I mean, it looked the same.
The same books.
Steven Spielberg: Same wallpaper.
Same books.
Lesley Stahl: Same paintings.
Steven Spielberg: And the watch that Lincoln carries on him that you hear ticking sometimes.
The museum allowed our sound designer to record the actual ticking of Lincoln's actual watch.
So whenever you hear the ticking, that's the same ticking that Lincoln heard 150 years ago.
Lesley Stahl: I understand you wore a suit for this shoot.
Steven Spielberg: I felt naked without one I've never worn a suit before.
I think I wanted to get into the role, more than anything else, of being part of that experience.
'Cause we were recreating a piece of history that we hope will stick around for a while.
And I wanted to feel like I was a part of that recreation.
And so I didn't want to look like the schlubby baseball cap wearing 21st century guy.
In reaching to portray the real Lincoln, the movie doesn't just deal with him as president.
It delves into his personal life, and his tormented relationship with his wife.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: He was troubled by her, he was challenged by her, he was hurt by her, all of those things together.
[Lincoln: Your grief, your grief.
Your inexhaustible grief.
Mary: How dare you throw that up at me.
Lincoln: And his mother who wouldn't let him near her because she was screaming from morning to night.
.]
Lesley Stahl: Did they fight like that? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Yeah.
Oh, there were real fights.
Lesley Stahl.
"Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" Doris Kearns Goodwin: Yeah.
[Lincoln: For everyone's god damn sake.
I should've clapped you in the madhouse.
Mary: Then do it.
Do it.
Don't you threaten me, you do it this time.
Lock me away.
.]
Lesley Stahl: When the movie starts their second child has already died, Willie.
And she has been in the deepest of mourning.
As I had heard, she basically closeted herself upstairs in the White House and is this true, Doris, stopped mothering the younger child, Tad? Doris Kearns Goodwin: The most terrible thing that Mary did after Willie died was she couldn't bear being with Tad, her youngest son, because he reminded her of Willie's absence.
It's as if both Willie and Tad died after Willie died.
Lincoln had to become both mother and father to Tad after Mary turned away.
And he had to take over not only the country, in leading the country, but take over that little kid at the same time.
What you see are the kinds of gestures that are so loving.
When he lies down next to him in the fireplace.
When he carries him to bed at night.
[Tad: Papa.
Lincoln: Hmm? Tad: Papa, I wanna see Willie Lincoln: Me too, Taddie, but we can't.
Tad: Why not? Lincoln: Willie's gone.
Its three years now, he's gone.
.]
The four years of the war took a toll on Lincoln.
You see can see that he aged -- as does Daniel Day-Lewis in the course of the movie.
He grows wearier.
He hunches over more.
His distinctive walk seems to slow.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: It was almost as if his gaunt frame needed oiling," people said.
And he would walk as if he were walking over a difficult field and his leg would come up and go down in a very uncomfortable way.
One of his friends said, "He looked like a laborer coming home after a hard day's work.
" That the-- somehow the weight of the world was felt in that walk.
Lincoln: Am I in trouble? Slade: No sir.
Lincoln: Thank you Mr.
Slade.
.]
One of the most poignant scenes in the movie comes near the end.
It's April 14, 1865: Lincoln is leaving the White House for Ford's Theater.
[Lincoln: I suppose it's time to go, though I would rather stay.
.]
Doris Kearns Goodwin: There is something about the emotional connection that you develop with this man, about the trial that he went through, about this extraordinary moment in our country's history and, somehow, I ended up with affection as well as respect for him.
And in the end, probably real love.
Lesley Stahl: You've said when you-- one of the sad things about the end of a movie is that you have to leave that character.
Did Lincoln stay with you after? Daniel Day-Lewis: Oh yeah.
I wish he'd stay forever, really.
I suppose what you miss is the pretense of seeing the world, understanding the world through their eyes, cause it's just a pretense, it's a game.
But, yeah, I missed him a lot.
Survivors said the assault was well-planned and well-executed.
Though details about the identities and motives of the invaders remain murky, the attack is evidence that the threat from al Qaeda is still potent.
And the group's goal remains the same: to attack Americans and other Westerners where ever they may be, even on a barren patch of the Sahara desert.
There were eight Americans at the Algerian gas plant when the terrorists struck.
Three died.
Five survived.
Tonight you'll hear for the first time from three of them.
Steve Wysocki: I was a hundred percent sure I was going to die.
Charlie Rose: So each of you thought you were going to die? Steve Wysocki: Yes.
Nick Frazier: Absolutely certain.
Mark Cobb: There was no doubt in my mind that a lot of people were going to die through this event.
The event -- a three-pronged attack -- unfolded before dawn on Wednesday, January 16.
Thirty-two al Qaeda fighters stormed this sprawling natural gas field.
They sprayed buildings and vehicles with automatic weapons and launched rocket-propelled grenades.
These three men -- Nick Frazier, Mark Cobb and Steve Wysocki -- all worked for the oil company BP, all witnessed the simultaneous assaults.
They showed us where they were on a satellite photo of the gas field.
Steve Wysocki: My office was approximately right there.
Wysocki, an oil and gas well expert, was at the main production plant in a small office building.
Mark Cobb: I was actually located in this building right here.
Cobb, BP's manager at the facility was in his office near the residential camp, home to 800 workers, mostly Algerians.
Frazier, a petroleum engineer, was on a bus bound for a nearby town.
It had just pulled out of the main gate.
Nick Frazier: I heard something.
And my initial reaction was, "Oh no, we've blown a tire.
We're going to be here forever.
" Charlie Rose: It sounded like a blown tire? Nick Frazier: Yeah.
Then I looked out the left hand window.
And I saw dozens and dozens and dozens of red streaks pass the left-hand side of the bus.
Charlie Rose: You were under attack? Nick Frazier: Yes.
People started to scramble.
And then bullets started to come through the front windshield.
Everyone was, as fast as they could, getting to where they could lay down in the walkway of the seats and get as flat as possible.
I don't know.
Everyone was so calm.
You just--you become so calm.
It wasn't how I thought I would re-- have reacted at all.
Charlie Rose: No screaming? No-- Nick Frazier: It was very silent, very organized.
It was as if we had trained for it, but we hadn't.
You could hear bullets starting to hit tthe side of the bus.
And it wasn't one, two, or three bullets.
It was hundreds.
It was just constant on the side of the bus.
I texted my wife, "The bus is under attack.
Call the embassy.
This is real.
Do not call me.
" Charlie Rose: You have to be wanting to tell her, "If I don't get back, I want you to know everything I feel.
" Nick Frazier: I didn't do that.
And part of it might be because I didn't want to give up hope.
And another because I didn't want her to think that I was going to die.
I think between those two reasons, I never really said goodbye.
Algerian soldiers came to the rescue from a nearby base and battled the militants for three hours.
Nick Frazier: They saved our lives.
They returned fire.
Heavy, heavy, heavy gunfire.
They stood by the bus and shot back and kept the terrorists from getting onto the bus, which is, I'm assuming, their intent.
Finally, the soldiers took Frazier and the others on the bus to safety.
For Nick Frazier, the terror was over.
But here, at this Spartan work camp where Mark Cobb lived and worked, a second group of al Qaeda fighters had seized control.
Mark Cobb: My first reaction was to call my boss in London.
Charlie Rose: What was the message? Mark Cobb: My message to him was very simple.
"We're under a major terrorist attack.
" Charlie Rose: You felt it, at that moment? Mark Cobb: Oh, it was clear.
I was guessing that I was hearing gunfire involving probably kind of intensity.
By that point in time, I could hear very clearly gunfire inside the camp itself.
So I knew the camp had been attacked.
And I was looking out the window myself.
And I saw three terrorists in the parking lot.
And that's the point in time where I realized I needed to hide.
Charlie Rose: Had it occurred to you by this time, "I'm an American, an expat.
I'm a manager here.
Maybe they're coming for me"? Mark Cobb: Absolutely.
I knew as the highest-ranking American on the site, I would be a prize.
They put the highest value on American hostages, British hostages and French hostages.
Cobb gathered his staff in one room and locked the door.
He crouched behind a filing cabinet as his coworkers hid him.
Mark Cobb: I sat in a small ball in the corner.
And they took all the maps.
And they laid them over the top of my head.
And they stacked the maps in front, where the small gap was between the metal cabinet.
And, basically hid me.
Charlie Rose: Did you feel safe? Mark Cobb: No.
If they started poking at the maps with an AK-47 or peeling maps off the top of me, I knew it was over with, yeah.
I heard them kick open the front door.
That's I guess at the point, in all honesty, that I felt pure terror.
I felt I was going to be taken.
So at that point, I elected to begin to make my calls to my family and say my goodbyes.
Charlie Rose: Who did you call? Mark Cobb: I called my daughter-in-law.
My son works for BP in the Gulf of Mexico.
He was on a rig.
He was on shift.
So I called her.
And I told her-- Charlie Rose: What did you say? Mark Cobb: I told her that I loved her.
I told her that I loved my grandbaby.
I told her to please get a hold of my son and to tell him that, you know, I couldn't ever ask for a better son.
And my cell phone buzzed.
And I looked down.
It was my son calling me.
He called me back, very emotional.
Asked me if-- was it really that bad? And I said, "Yeah, it was, son.
" Charlie Rose: You're whispering? Mark Cobb: Yeah, I'm whispering.
I said, "I'm not sure I'm going to make it.
" And I told him I had to get off the phone, because then they were kicking the doors in closer to where I was, the room I was hiding in.
And I hung up the phone with him.
Charlie Rose: Can you hear your heartbeat in a moment like this? Mark Cobb: Oh yeah, especially sitting in that corner.
Dead still, you know? You don't even want to breathe deeply, because it might rustle the paper on top of you.
Charlie Rose: And what are you hearing? Mark Cobb: I'm hearing the distinct sound of a boot going into a door.
But by the grace of God, there was only two doors they didn't kick in in that office building.
And one of those two was the door I was behind.
Charlie Rose: Why do you think that's true? Mark Cobb: I have no idea.
I have no idea why they didn't kick that door in.
After hiding for several hours, Cobb decided to risk an escape.
He scurried to the perimeter fence, dove through a hole, and ran for his life across the desert to the Algerian military base a half-mile away.
Both Cobb and Frazier got out.
Cobb's friend, fellow Texan Victor Lovelady, was not so lucky.
He was taken hostage at the camp where Cobb was hiding.
At the massive gas plant up the road, a third group of al Qaeda terrorists marauded through the giant maze of pipes and machinery, looking for more hostages.
Steve Wysocki: We started hearing voices on our radios that didn't belong on our radios.
The terrorists had-- they had captured some of our radios, if you will, from people and they were starting to use our radios to communicate with themselves.
And I looked out the front door and I saw a man that didn't belong there starting to come up the steps wearing camouflage fatigues.
And I took off running.
And one of the guys literally grabbed me and threw me under my desk in my hole.
And then everybody got very quiet.
Steve Wysocki was curled into the corner of his cubicle.
On the other side of the wall, another American, Gordon Rowan, took shelter in a bare conference room.
Intruders searched the building, kicking down doors.
Steve Wysocki: I was laying there trying to be just absolutely as quiet and as still as I could.
My greatest fear was that I would sneeze or would move a boot or something like that and make a sound.
I heard an exchange which I didn't fully recognize at first.
And then, the response to the question was, "My name is Gordon, I'm an American.
" And I knew Gordon had been captured.
And the response from the terrorist was, "You are welcome then.
" In English.
"Now, we've got you now.
" "Gordon" was Gordon Rowan, Wysocki and Frazier's boss, and one of the most senior engineers in the gas field.
And he was in the hands of the terrorists.
Steve Wysocki: I was wearing my boots, and every time you touch-- seemed like you touched the side of this little compartment I was in, it sounded like a drum, and it scared me that I was just afraid to move.
After two nights in hiding, Wysocki and a few others, made a break for freedom.
Steve Wysocki: And we found that there was a spot in the fence that was damaged that we could go through.
We got through the fence and we continued across the open desert.
Charlie Rose: There is this speculation, it's about the plants themselves and the gas that was there, that perhaps the motivation was to go in there and they wanted to know how the process works and how the plants work because they wanted to create a huge explosion to get attention.
Mark Cobb: I don't think they understood technically how the plant - Charlie Rose: "They" being-- Mark Cobb: --operates.
Charlie Rose: --the terrorists? Mark Cobb: The terrorists.
I don't think they understood technically how the facility operated.
But I think they understood enough to know that there was high-pressure gas in there and they put bombs in the right places that they could create what w-- Charlie Rose: A huge explosion.
Mark Cobb: A spectacular, as it's sometimes referred in security parlance, so.
Charlie Rose: Seen around the world from the highest point in the sky? Mark Cobb: Absolutely.
The plant had shut down at the first sound of trouble.
The terrorists apparently unable to restart it.
But they did detonate a bomb; a vehicle packed with explosives.
It killed most of them and seven of their hostages including Gordon Rowan.
Two other Americans also died.
Fred Buttaccio suffered a fatal heart attack at the start of the four-day siege.
Cobb's friend, Victor Lovelady, was killed a day later along with several other hostages.
The terrorists were trying to move key hostages from the camp to the plant.
Algerian helicopters obliterated the convoy leaving the vehicles in which they were captive charred and twisted.
After four days, it was over.
Survivors and friends gathered for Gordon Rowan's funeral a week ago.
Charlie Rose: People died.
Friends of yours died, you know.
You feel bad but, by the grace of God, there but, you know, why me? How did I survive and someone else didn't? Mark Cobb: You can't help but ask that question.
Why was I able to escape? You know, why was Nick not shot on that bus? I don't know.
I don't think any of us know.
Steve Wysocki: When I heard the guys in our building get taken, I'm like, "Why couldn't I have done something to help?" And I'm guilt-- feel guilty for being-- feeling that I was paralyzed with fear and not do anything.
But-- and I'm especially guilty because they lost their lives.
And I didn't.
Mark Cobb: All of us got quite a bit of time ahead of us to go through this and relive these memories and the nightmares that we have at night and the sleepless nights that we have.
Charlie Rose: Nightmares.
Nightmares? Mark Cobb: Yeah.
The nightmares for me are all the same thing.
It's the sound of those footsteps as they came down that hallway towards that door.
Charlie Rose: Coming for you? Mark Cobb: Coming for me.
Whether we like it or not, we live in an age where much of what goes on in our daily lives is monitored, collected and sold to interested parties -- our driving records, our medical history, our Internet traffic and, most importantly, our credit information.
A mistake on your credit report can cost you money.
It can increase the interest you pay on loans, prevent you from getting a mortgage or buying a car, landing a job or getting a security clearance.
Its not uncommon.
A new government study to be released tomorrow indicates as many as 40 million Americans have a mistake on their credit report.
Twenty million have significant mistakes.
And our own investigation of the credit reporting industry shows that those mistakes can be nearly impossible to get removed from your record.
Consumer credit reporting is a four billion dollar a year industry dominated by three large companies: Experian, TransUnion and Equifax.
They keep files on 200 million Americans and traffic in our financial reputations.
They make their money gathering information from people we do business with and selling it to banks, merchants, insurance companies, and employers and they use it to make judgments on our creditworthiness and reliability.
But now the reliability of the industry is being questioned in an 8-year Federal Trade Commission study to be released tomorrow.
Jon Leibowitz is the chairman.
Jon Leibowitz: Here's what we found.
Some pretty troubling information.
One out of five Americans has an error on their credit report.
And one out of 10 has an error on their credit report that might lower their credit score.
Steve Kroft: I'm trying to think of another industry where a 20 percent error rate would be acceptable.
That's a pretty high error rate.
Jon Leibowitz: It's a pretty high error rate.
Mike DeWine: I think the more we look at this and the more the American people know about this, the madder they're going to get.
Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine has opened his own investigation into the credit reporting industry which for years has blamed mistakes on banks and merchants that provide them with bad information.
But DeWine argues that the fault lies with the industry for what he says are clear violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
Steve Kroft: Do these companies have a legal responsibility to make sure that the information is accurate? Mike DeWine: The federal law says that if you believe that there is a mistake, you can go to them and they have an obligation to do a reasonable investigation.
They're not doing a reasonable investigation.
They're not doing an investigation at all.
Every day, DeWine's office fields calls from desperate constituents who can't get the credit reporting agencies to answer their questions or correct mistakes on their report like paid bills listed as delinquent, closed accounts listed as open, and bad debts that belong to other people with similar names or social security numbers.
Mike DeWine: The problem is not that they make mistakes.
It's they won't fix the mistakes.
It literally is like this-- you know, guy behind the curtain in "The Wizard of Oz.
" You really don't know what he's doing.
It really is a secret operation that is so hard to crack.
Eight million people a year file disputes about their credit report which usually requires a visit to the Experian, TransUnion or Equifax websites.
They are primarily designed to sell you premium products, not resolve a dispute which was what I was trying to do.
There's a toll-free number you can call which is likely to connect you to someone on a faraway continent.
[Kevin at credit reporting agency: Thank you for calling.
My name is Kevin.
How may I help you? Steve Kroft: Where are you located? Kevin at credit reporting agency: India.
Steve Kroft: India?.]
But regardless of where they are or who you talk to, they won't be much help.
Steve Kroft: So, really, you can't do anything for me.
I've just been talking to you for do is to tell me to fill it out online.
[Employee at credit reporting agency: Yes, Mr.
Kroft.
Steve Kroft: Okay, thank you.
.]
Besides the toll-free number, they also give you a post office box address where you can send a letter and documents supporting your claim.
In each case, it's extremely unlikely that anyone with the authority to resolve your dispute will ever actually see it.
Ask Sandra Cortez, a California accountant, whose credit report confused her with an international drug trafficker.
It took her five years to get it fixed.
Or David Smith, a retired Army officer whose credit report listed a bankruptcy that wasn't his and triggered a foreclosure proceeding against his house in South Carolina.
He is still dealing with the fallout.
Or Judy Thomas, a trauma nurse with a horror story worthy of Hitchcock or Kafka.
Judy Thomas: There's nobody to go to.
There's nobody.
You just keep making phone calls and you just keep writing disputes and you keep sending them your Social Security number.
And they don't care.
Thomas, who manages two medical centers near Cleveland, says it all began in 1999 when she went shopping for a new dress and applied for a store credit card to get a 15 percent discount.
She was denied.
Steve Kroft: Was that the first time you'd ever been denied credit? Judy Thomas: Yes, very first time.
Steve Kroft: Ever? Judy Thomas: Ever, ever.
But certainly not the last.
It became a regular occurrence.
The personal credit reports she got from Experian, TransUnion and Equifax were all clean, and without blemish.
Yet she kept getting rejected and couldn't find out why.
Judy Thomas: I would get a consumer report and it would look fine.
I would go to the bank.
And they would tell me, "Oh no, you have all this debt.
" But no one would tell me what was on there.
Steve Kroft: They wouldn't tell you what the debt was? And they wouldn't give you a copy of the report that they had.
Judy Thomas: No.
No.
It took Judy Thomas several years to discover what almost no one knows -- that the credit reports the agencies send to you are different than the ones that they sell to banks, merchants and mortgage brokers.
And she only found that out when a loan officer left her file on his desk and walked out of the room.
Steve Kroft: And what did you see? Judy Thomas: I saw debt from Utah Medical Center.
I saw debt from a veterinarian clinic in Utah.
I saw collections for a Judith Kendall.
Steve Kroft: Judith Kendall, not Judy Thomas? Judy Thomas: Correct.
Steve Kroft: What's going through your mind? Judy Thomas: What the hell's she doing on my credit report? What the hell is her debt doing on my credit report? Steve Kroft: You think this would be a fairly simple thing to get straightened out? Judy Thomas: You would think.
You would think.
Judy Thomas (in kitchen): This is my Judy Thomas versus Judith Kendall file.
Instead it became a six-year battle with credit agencies, requiring box loads of correspondence to try and prove that she was Judy Thomas, not Judith Kendall, all to no avail.
Steve Kroft: You got a lot of time invested in this.
How important are these documents? Judy Thomas: It's my life.
There are logs of daily phone calls to dispute centers, hundreds of letters to Experian, Equifax and TransUnion, even correspondence from Judith's Kendall's creditors in Utah, acknowledging that the debts on her credit report aren't hers.
Judy Thomas: I would get letters back from these companies, saying, "This, in fact, is not you.
" Steve Kroft: You still couldn't get it off your credit report? Judy Thomas: No, I sent copies to the credit bureaus.
And they would come back as mine, verified, verified.
I also hired an-- a local attorney to try and straighten it out.
We had everything certified that this is Judy Thomas.
This is where I live.
I've never gone by the name of Kendall.
I've never even been to Utah, let alone owing a cable company in Utah.
Steve Kroft: And what happened? Judy Thomas: Nothing.
Steve Kroft: Nothing? Judy Thomas: Nothing.
Steve Kroft: What kind of problems did this cause for you? Judy Thomas: I couldn't refinance.
I couldn't take advantage of the interest rates.
I couldn't get a new-- I couldn't get a car.
I couldn't cosign for my children's student loans.
And I'd worked hard for my credit.
I was-- and these people were taking it away from me.
Finally Judy Thomas took the only recourse available to her.
She sued Equifax and TransUnion in federal court.
And after a year-long battle, the credit reporting agencies settled for an undisclosed sum and promised to clean up her file.
Steve Kroft: Did you think it was going to take a federal lawsuit? Judy Thomas: Heck no.
It just takes a human being going, "Wow, this isn't Judith Kendall.
Let me fix this.
" That's all they had to do.
But as we discovered, that almost never happens.
If you challenge a credit report and mail your information to a post office box in the United States, the dispute will likely be investigated in India, or the Philippines or South America.
We traveled 5,000 miles to the Chilean capital of Santiago where we tracked down three former Experian employees.
Carolina Herrera, Rodolfo Carrasco and Enzo Valdivia were all dispute agents at Experian's national consumer assistance center although they say they weren't able offer consumers much assistance.
Steve Kroft: So, if somebody had a problem with their credit report, they would send the complaint, and it would end up with you? Many voices: Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Steve Kroft: So how many of these did you have to do a day? Rodolfo Carrasco: Ninety.
Steve Kroft: Ninety? Carolina Herrera: Ninety, yeah.
Steve Kroft: Did you consider yourself investigators? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have any way to investigate these claims? Carolina Herrera: No, we didn't.
You can't call the person.
Steve Kroft: You can't pick up the phone and call them? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have phones? Many voices: No.
No.
Steve Kroft: Could you email them? Many voices: No.
Steve Kroft: Did you have the authority to say, "Wait a minute," after looking at somebody's file, and say that, you know, "This is a-- somebody made a mistake; this person doesn't owe this money"? Rodolfo Carrasco: We didn't have that power.
All they did was read the disputes and reduce them to a two-digit code like "never late" or "not mine.
" It was then sent with a two or three-line summary and no documentation back to the bank or department store that furnished the original information.
Steve Kroft: If there was a difference of opinion between the creditor and the person who was filing the complaint, how was it usually resolved in the-- in favor of the creditor? Enzo Valdivia: Yeah.
The creditor was always right.
Rodolfo Carrasco: Mostly, we took for granted the word of the bank.
If the bank said, "Hey, this guy owes $100," so it is.
Sylvia Goldsmith: None of us have ever interviewed anybody in Chile from Experian.
We've got a federal court ordering them to bring these people forward.
And we're still waiting.
Much of what's known about the inner workings of the consumer credit agencies comes out of lawsuits filed by Len Bennett and Sylvia Goldsmith, who have subpoenaed company records and deposed employees and executives.
They say under the current system, there is no way for people like Judy Thomas to get their problems solved.
Steve Kroft: So all these people who take the time to meticulously document a case that the bill isn't theirs or the bill has been paid -- that is never seen by anybody? Len Bennett: It's not seen by anyone who considers it in determining whether or not information will be removed from a credit report.
Steve Kroft: It's not forwarded onto the person who has the complaint with you? Len Bennett: No.
It is never forwarded on, never forwarded onto the creditor.
Sylvia Goldsmith: We can get a jury verdict for $1 million.
That's chump change to some of these bureaus.
They would rather pay a verdict in $1 million than to actually go in and change the policies and procedures that they have, because that's much more expensive to them.
Len Bennett: I can say this.
Without qualification, the dispute procedures used by the credit reporting agencies uniformly used completely fail to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
Courts have found that.
The Federal Trade Commission has found that.
It's not even a close call.
Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine agreed.
Mike DeWine: I think the industry's a mess.
And I think the impact it has on real people is just unconscionable.
Steve Kroft: You think they're breaking the law? Mike DeWine: I think they're breaking the law.
There is no doubt in my mind that they are breaking the law.
We wanted to talk to Equifax, TransUnion and Experian.
But like most consumers, we were unsuccessful.
The agencies referred us to the spokesman for their lobbying group in Washington.
He too declined our request for an on-camera interview, but did provide a written statement citing an industry sponsored survey that showed 95 percent of its customers were satisfied with the dispute process.
The industry maintains it is in compliance with federal law.
With the 150th anniversary of the Civil War, we're going through another Abraham Lincoln revival.
Not that interest in him ever really fades: there've been close to 16,000 books written about him and now, Steven Spielberg's movie "Lincoln" which has been nominated for The film is filled with things about our 16th president that we -- who aren't Lincoln scholars -- didn't know.
It's Daniel Day-Lewis, whose been nominated for an Oscar for best actor, who brings the great man to life.
[Lincoln: I can't listen to this anymore.
I can't accomplish a goddamn thing of any human meaning or worth until we cure ourselves of slavery and end this pestilential war.
.]
Daniel Day-Lewis: I never, ever felt that depth of love for another human being that I never met.
And that's I think probably the effect that Lincoln has on most people that take the time to discover him.
After agreeing to take the part, Daniel Day-Lewis spent a year reading and doing research into Lincoln the man.
Daniel Day-Lewis: He does feel as if he's carved in stone, when you first approach him, because of the way he was as a man.
As you begin to discover him, it's almost as if he welcomes you in.
[Lincoln: Tell us the news from the Hill.
Ashley: Ah, well the news Lincoln: Why for instance is this thus, and what is the reason for this thusness.
.]
So much about Daniel Day-Lewis' portrait rings true to the man including things most of us didn't know: like what Lincoln sounded like.
Daniel Day-Lewis: There are numerous references to him having a high-pitched voice.
Lesley Stahl: Did that influence you? Daniel Day-Lewis: It's a clue, I suppose.
All clues are potentially helpful.
[Lincoln: And come February the first, I intend to sign the Thirteenth Amendment.
.]
Doris Kearns Goodwin: That's definitely the way people who heard him speak at the time said he spoke.
So somehow he mastered that voice.
Even Lincoln historians, like Doris Kearns Goodwin, who was a consultant on the movie, say the portrait -- down to the high voice -- was eerily authentic because of Daniel Day-Lewis' method acting.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: Steven told me later that he never came out of that voice until after the filming was over.
Lesley Stahl: So the whole time they were filming he stayed in character - which is his method? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Absolutely.
"Steven" is Steven Spielberg the director, who decided that the movie would be only about the last four months of Lincoln's life when -- worried that the Emancipation Proclamation would be voided after the war -- he pushes for passage of the 13th Amendment to end slavery once and for all.
Steven Spielberg: What he was seeing was that the war was going to come to a close and once the war was over he would have a snowball's chance in hell to pass this.
He needed to get this thing through with great haste.
Here's something most of us didn't know: Lincoln was a hardball, down and dirty kind of politician.
To get the amendment passed, he used ruthless, even deceptive tactics.
Lesley Stahl: Lincoln, our great, great hero, was a great horse trader and did get his hands dirty.
Steven Spielberg: At the same time it was noble and grand, but it was also dark and murky which is sometimes-- Lesley Stahl: A little scummy.
Steven Spielberg: -- what all politics are.
Lesley Stahl: But they were buying votes.
Steven Spielberg: There's no money involved.
They were trading administration jobs called patronage jobs, to get a yes vote to abolish slavery.
[Seward: But we can't buy the votes for the amendment.
It's too important.
Lincoln: I said nothing of buying anything.
We need 20 votes was all I said.
Start of my second term, plenty of positions to fill.
.]
Lincoln did everything in the politician's handbook to get the amendment passed: cajoled, arm-twisted, negotiated and he bullied his cabinet.
[Lincoln: Buzzard's guts, man.
I am the president of the United States of America, clothed in immense power.
You will procure me these votes.
.]
And meanwhile the war, the Civil War, was continuing to take the ever-mounting number of lives which Lincoln saw with great guilt.
The scene in the movie when he rides through the aftermath of the battle of Petersburg is heartbreaking.
Lesley Stahl: Did that happen? Did he really go to the battlefield? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Lincoln actually went to the battlefield about a dozen times during the war.
He needed to walk amidst the thinning ranks of the soldiers.
He physically felt every life that was lost was on his soul, on his heart.
[Lincoln: Some weariness has bit at my bones.
I've never seen the like of it before.
What I've seen today.
.]
What saved Lincoln during the war, and throughout his life, was his sense of humor and the stories he loved to tell that he often enjoyed more than his audience.
[Lincoln: I heard tell once of a Jefferson City lawyer who had a parrot that waked him each morning crying out, "Today's the day the world shall end, as Scripture has foretold.
" And one day the lawyer shot him for the sake of peace and quiet, I presume.
Thus fulfilling, for the bird at least, it's prophecy.
.]
Lesley Stahl: One of the things that I loved in the movie, several times, where he'd start-- you start telling a funny story in almost inappropriate moments.
Daniel Day-Lewis: Right.
Lesley Stahl: And everybody rolls their eyes, "Oh God, here he goes again--" Daniel Day-Lewis: Yea, Stanton, his secretary of war, was always apoplectic.
And that is known, that's a historical fact, that Stanton just couldn't stand him telling stories.
[Lincoln: There is one Ethan Allen story that I'm very partial to.
.]
Stanton: No, you're going to tell a story.
I don't believe that I can bear to listen to another on of your stories right now.
.]
Lesley Stahl: Was he just a supremely confident man, or was it that he wasn't a confident person? Doris Kearns Goodwin: It's a mystery in a certain sense, because he is, at one level, he's extremely confident.
I think from the time he was young he knew that he was in some sense a genius.
But when he was young he was so worried that opportunities would never allow him to exercise his talents.
And he was hugely ambitious.
He wanted to be remembered for having done something that would stand the test of time.
So boy, has that been achieved -- saving the union, ending slavery, and living forever in history.
Pretty good.
Spielberg went to great lengths to make his movie look as historically accurate as possible: here's first lady Mary Todd Lincoln; here's Sally Field who put on 25 pounds to play the part.
This is abolitionist Thaddeus Stevens and this is Tommy Lee Jones in the role.
And here's Secretary of Ear Edwin Stanton --- played by Bruce McGill.
And rooms in the White House were recreated.
Spielberg went out and found first editions of books Lincoln read.
Lesley Stahl: I heard the same rug.
By the same, I mean, it looked the same.
The same books.
Steven Spielberg: Same wallpaper.
Same books.
Lesley Stahl: Same paintings.
Steven Spielberg: And the watch that Lincoln carries on him that you hear ticking sometimes.
The museum allowed our sound designer to record the actual ticking of Lincoln's actual watch.
So whenever you hear the ticking, that's the same ticking that Lincoln heard 150 years ago.
Lesley Stahl: I understand you wore a suit for this shoot.
Steven Spielberg: I felt naked without one I've never worn a suit before.
I think I wanted to get into the role, more than anything else, of being part of that experience.
'Cause we were recreating a piece of history that we hope will stick around for a while.
And I wanted to feel like I was a part of that recreation.
And so I didn't want to look like the schlubby baseball cap wearing 21st century guy.
In reaching to portray the real Lincoln, the movie doesn't just deal with him as president.
It delves into his personal life, and his tormented relationship with his wife.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: He was troubled by her, he was challenged by her, he was hurt by her, all of those things together.
[Lincoln: Your grief, your grief.
Your inexhaustible grief.
Mary: How dare you throw that up at me.
Lincoln: And his mother who wouldn't let him near her because she was screaming from morning to night.
.]
Lesley Stahl: Did they fight like that? Doris Kearns Goodwin: Yeah.
Oh, there were real fights.
Lesley Stahl.
"Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" Doris Kearns Goodwin: Yeah.
[Lincoln: For everyone's god damn sake.
I should've clapped you in the madhouse.
Mary: Then do it.
Do it.
Don't you threaten me, you do it this time.
Lock me away.
.]
Lesley Stahl: When the movie starts their second child has already died, Willie.
And she has been in the deepest of mourning.
As I had heard, she basically closeted herself upstairs in the White House and is this true, Doris, stopped mothering the younger child, Tad? Doris Kearns Goodwin: The most terrible thing that Mary did after Willie died was she couldn't bear being with Tad, her youngest son, because he reminded her of Willie's absence.
It's as if both Willie and Tad died after Willie died.
Lincoln had to become both mother and father to Tad after Mary turned away.
And he had to take over not only the country, in leading the country, but take over that little kid at the same time.
What you see are the kinds of gestures that are so loving.
When he lies down next to him in the fireplace.
When he carries him to bed at night.
[Tad: Papa.
Lincoln: Hmm? Tad: Papa, I wanna see Willie Lincoln: Me too, Taddie, but we can't.
Tad: Why not? Lincoln: Willie's gone.
Its three years now, he's gone.
.]
The four years of the war took a toll on Lincoln.
You see can see that he aged -- as does Daniel Day-Lewis in the course of the movie.
He grows wearier.
He hunches over more.
His distinctive walk seems to slow.
Doris Kearns Goodwin: It was almost as if his gaunt frame needed oiling," people said.
And he would walk as if he were walking over a difficult field and his leg would come up and go down in a very uncomfortable way.
One of his friends said, "He looked like a laborer coming home after a hard day's work.
" That the-- somehow the weight of the world was felt in that walk.
Lincoln: Am I in trouble? Slade: No sir.
Lincoln: Thank you Mr.
Slade.
.]
One of the most poignant scenes in the movie comes near the end.
It's April 14, 1865: Lincoln is leaving the White House for Ford's Theater.
[Lincoln: I suppose it's time to go, though I would rather stay.
.]
Doris Kearns Goodwin: There is something about the emotional connection that you develop with this man, about the trial that he went through, about this extraordinary moment in our country's history and, somehow, I ended up with affection as well as respect for him.
And in the end, probably real love.
Lesley Stahl: You've said when you-- one of the sad things about the end of a movie is that you have to leave that character.
Did Lincoln stay with you after? Daniel Day-Lewis: Oh yeah.
I wish he'd stay forever, really.
I suppose what you miss is the pretense of seeing the world, understanding the world through their eyes, cause it's just a pretense, it's a game.
But, yeah, I missed him a lot.