Axios (2018) s04e12 Episode Script
Season 4, Episode 12
Islamabad, Pakistan
Prime Minister.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
AXIOS WHAT MATTERS 1.
Imran Khan / an interview with Pakistan's prime minister Jonathan, you're in steamy Islamabad.
You're about to interview the prime minister, Imran Khan, a former cricket star.
Pakistan is squarely in the sights of the Biden administration right now.
America is going to completely withdraw its military from Afghanistan by September the 11th.
The question of whether Pakistan allows American special forces and CIA to base themselves in Pakistan could have really direct impacts on whether terrorism flourishes again in Afghanistan and ultimately comes back to hit America at home.
Prime Minister Khan, the U.
S.
military is withdrawing from Afghanistan after 20 years.
Are you happy about that? Happy in one way because there was never going to be any military solution in Afghanistan.
Anxious that they're leaving.
Without a political settlement, there's a possibility of civil war.
What would a political settlement look like in your mind? A political settlement in Afghanistan would mean a sort of a coalition government, a government from the Taliban side and the other side.
There is no other solution.
Do you think the Americans made a mistake by saying, "We're getting out by September the 11th"? Difficult.
They have got themselves in such a big mess.
They had to give some sort of time frame.
But the moment they gave a time frame, Taliban would have considered that a victory.
How do you feel about the prospect of the Taliban effectively controlling Afghanistan? Are you happy to welcome them into the community of nations? As far as Pakistan is concerned, whoever represents the people of Afghanistan, we will deal with them.
But what if they're not democratically elected? Does it not concern you on some level that this group of people is accumulating power right next door to you? Look, I'm not a spokesman for Taliban.
For me to say what they are doing or what they shouldn't be doing is pointless.
In case Taliban go for an all-out victory, there is going to be incredible amount of bloodshed.
And let me tell you, the country that is going to suffer the most after Afghanistan is gonna be Pakistan.
We already have 3 million Afghan refugees here.
And this could lead another exodus.
So that is our biggest concern.
The Americans, before they leave, there must be a settlement.
Let's talk about the relationship with the United States.
The American CIA director, Bill Burns, made an unannounced visit here to Islamabad.
Why? Ever since 9/11, there's constantly been touch between our intelligence agencies.
- Did you meet with him? - No, I didn't.
- Did anyone from your administration? - Yes.
Our head of ISI.
The Americans want to have their spies here and special forces based here in Pakistan to keep an eye on what's happening across the border.
Will you allow the American government to have CIA here in Pakistan to conduct cross-border counterterrorism missions against Al Qaeda, ISIS, or the Taliban? Absolutely not.
- There's no way we way we will - Seriously? any bases, any sort of action from Pakistani territory into Afghanistan.
Absolutely not.
Pakistan suffered 70,000 casualties, more than any other country, by joining the American war.
We cannot afford any more military actions from our territory.
We will be partners in peace, not in conflict.
The American military right now is discussing doing air strikes to support the Afghan forces against the Taliban.
Would you allow the American Air Force to use your airspace for those air strikes? We are not going to be part of any conflict anymore.
But you haven't decided yet whether you'll let them use your airspace.
This hasn't been discussed at all.
So.
- What's your feeling about it? - I don't know.
We'll discuss this.
You know, why would the Americans be using bombing Afghanistan to after it hasn't worked for 20 years, why would it work again? Have you spoken to Joe Biden since he took office? - No, I haven't.
- Is there a reason for that? Whenever he has time, he can speak to me.
But at the moment, clearly he has other priorities.
What would you say to him if you had a meeting with him? The U.
S.
has a big responsibility.
Most powerful nation in the world.
This is almost 1.
4 billion people living in the subcontinent.
We are held hostage one dispute in Kashmir, a disputed territory.
According to the United Nations Security Council resolutions, there should have been a plebiscite for the people of Kashmir to decide about their own future.
That has never taken place.
It's festering.
It can easy if the Americans have the resolve, the will, this can be sorted out.
Intelligence analysts say that Pakistan has the fastest-growing nuclear arsenal anywhere in the world.
- I don't think - Why? I don't know where they've come up with this.
Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is simply as a deterrent to protect ourselves.
But you're growing it, not shrinking it.
I'm not sure whether we are growing it or not because Really? As far as I know, our nuclear the only one purpose, it's not an offensive thing.
Any country which has a neighbor seven times the size, as Pakistan has, would be worried.
Is your goal vis-a-vis India and Pakistan nuclear disarmament? I am completely against nuclear arms.
I always have been.
We've had three wars against India.
And ever since we've had nuclear deterrent, we have had no war between the two countries.
We have border skirmishes, but we've never faced war.
The moment there's a settlement on Kashmir, I believe the two neighbors will live as civilized people.
We will not need to have these nuclear deterrence.
Last year, you wrote an open letter to leaders of Muslim states asking them to unite against Islamophobia, particularly in the West.
Why did you feel the need to write that public letter? The problem is there's this big communication gap between the Islamic world and the Western societies.
It happened after 9/11 when the word "Islamic terrorism" came into currency.
The moment you say "Islamic terrorism," the man in the street in the West thinks that there's something in Islam which leads to terrorism or Islam causes radicalism.
After 9/11, anytime some terrorist act went on where a Muslim was involved, the entire 1.
3 billion Muslims started becoming targets.
Just across your border in western China, the Chinese government has imprisoned more than 1 million Uyghur Muslims in reeducation camps.
The Chinese government has tortured Muslims, forcibly sterilized them, and they've destroyed mosques in Xinjiang and also punished Muslims for fasting, praying, even giving Muslim names to their children.
Prime Minister, why are you so outspoken about Islamophobia in Europe and the United States but totally silent about the genocide of Muslims in western China? What our conversations have been with the Chinese, this is not the case, according to them.
The evidence is just overwhelming.
Whatever issues we have with the Chinese, we speak to them behind closed doors.
China has been one of the greatest friends to us in our most difficult times.
When we were really struggling, our economy was struggling, China came to our rescue.
So we respect the way they are.
And whatever issues we have, we speak behind closed doors.
How come this is such a big issue in the Western world? Why are the people of Kashmir ignored? It is much more relevant.
Compared to what might be going on the Uyghurs, 100,000 Kashmiris have been killed.
There are 800,000 Indian troops which have literally it's an open prison in Kashmir.
9 million Kashmiris are put there.
Why is that not an issue? So I think it's hypocrisy.
They've been a huge partner to you, China.
But on some level, doesn't it make you feel sick to have to be quiet because of all this money they're putting into Pakistan? I look around the world what's happening in Palestine, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Afghanistan.
Am I going to start talking about everything? I concentrate on what is happening on my border, in my country.
- This is on your border.
- Which is part of No, that is part of Pakistan.
100,000 Kashmiris are dying.
That concerns me more because half of Kashmir is in Pakistan.
This is a grotesquely large human rights atrocity.
First of all, I'm not sure about that because There's satellite images.
Our conversations with the Chinese, this is not the picture that comes from that side.
So just to a fine point on this, you are not in any way concerned about the Muslim Uyghurs in Xinjiang? Our discussions with Chinese will always be behind closed doors.
You were asked about the epidemic of sexual violence and rape in Pakistan.
And you acknowledged the seriousness of the problem, and you talked about Pakistan's strict laws.
You were also quoted as saying that the practice of women wearing veils, quote, "Is to stop temptation.
Not every man has willpower," you said.
On increasing vulgarity, "it will have consequences.
" And you were accused of rape victim blaming.
- How do you respond to that? - It is such nonsense.
I never said "veils.
" This was never said.
I said the concept of purdah.
Concept of purdah is avoid temptation in the society.
We don't have discos here.
We don't have night clubs.
So it is a completely different society, way of life here.
So if you raise temptation in the society to the point and all these young guys have nowhere to go, it has consequences in the society.
Do you think that what women wear has any effect, that that's part of this temptation? If a woman is wearing very few clothes, it will have an impact on the men unless they are robots.
I mean, it's common sense.
Yes.
But is it really going to provoke acts of sexual violence? It depends which society you live in.
If in a society people haven't seen that sort of thing, it will have an impact on them.
If you grow up in a society like you, maybe it won't on you.
This cultural imperialism, "Whatever is in our culture must be acceptable to everyone else.
" It's not.
But forgive me.
Like, when you were a cricket star, you know, you were seen in as a playboy.
There were photos of you with your shirts off in your bedroom.
It's a bit rich for you to be criticizing this.
This is not about me! - It's about my soci - But you're the messenger.
Jonathan, listen.
It's about my society.
My priority is how my society behaves, what reactions are caused in my society.
So when I see sex crime going through the roof, we sit down, we discuss how we're going to tackle this.
It is having an impact in my society.
We have to do something about it.
Thank you so much, Prime Minister.
Really appreciate your time.
Oh, Jonathan, you did go a bit long about that.
2.
Marcia Fudge / Secretary of Housing & Urban Development Marcia Fudge, Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, is responsible for national housing policy and enforcing fair housing laws.
Secretary Marcia Fudge, you are secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
You were mayor just down the road.
Is there anything that being mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio has in common with being a member of President Biden's Cabinet? Oh, no question about it.
I learned so many things.
Especially, I learned about housing.
I've built senior housing.
I've built new housing and new developments.
But the most important thing, I think, is when you're the mayor of a small town, you talk to people every day.
- Whether you want to or not.
- Exactly right.
On your watch, did you think you would be able to say that Juneteenth is a national holiday? I will say, Madam Secretary, that is the fastest I have ever seen two branches of government move.
The president signed it.
The next day, it was a federal holiday.
It was amazing.
I didn't expect to see it.
But I'll tell you what it shows us, what can happen when you are doing the right thing and everybody is on board.
The fact that Juneteenth is a national holiday in America, what would you say that shows us about the progress that's been made in America and where we have left to go? Oh, it's great progress.
I mean, who would have ever thought it? But we know that we have a lot of work to do.
As long as there are the kinds of discriminatory practices that even we as a government see every day, civil rights has a long way to go.
Fairness has a long way to go.
The federal moratorium on evictions that was put in place during COVID is slated to expire.
How worried are you that that could lead to a new wave of homelessness? I won't lie to you and say that I'm not worried.
I am worried.
But I do believe that the president has put in place the tools to keep that from happening.
There's $46 billion available to assist renters and homeowners who are behind.
And so I do believe once those resources come through the pipeline you will not see the kinds of evictions that people are expecting.
Over the course of the pandemic, would you say that by and large banks have been allies or impediments for homeowners? I can only speak to the banks that we deal with.
- And most of them have been allies.
- Did that surprise you? - You've had your fights.
- We have.
But I think the banks have figured it out.
It's much more costly for them to put somebody out of a house than to find a way to keep 'em in it.
You couldn't necessarily have counted on that.
Have you been a little surprised over the past year? I have been.
What do you think drove that realization? COVID.
COVID drove a lot of it.
Because we were all put in positions where we had to stop and rethink how we do business.
Madam Secretary, over the past 15 years, Black home ownership rates have gone dramatically down.
Home ownership rates for Asians, Hispanics went up.
What's happening? Part of our problem is that we have never totally enforced the Fair Housing Act.
That is why we are doing things like home ownership assistance, why we're addressing the student loan issue, why we're looking at how credit is distributed.
For people of color, especially Black people, home ownership is wealth.
It is it is not only wealth to us, but it is generational wealth.
You have some solutions.
One of them has to do with people who are loaded down with student debt.
Who has student debt? Poor people, Black people, brown people.
We're the people who carry most debt.
And so the system's already skewed toward us not being credit worthy.
What's your plan? The one thing we know is that a person that makes about $50,000 a year, if they want to purchase a home, maybe $200,000 or in that ballpark, they have $75,000 worth of student debt, they don't qualify.
Once we make the adjustments we'll make, that same person will qualify and will qualify at a rate that gives them an opportunity to go into a home with some equity but also be so vested in that home that they can afford to stay in that home.
California has a reparations task force looking at some of the generational consequences of historical racism, including redlining, evictions.
- Could that be effective? - I think it could be effective.
But at some point, we have to stop studying and we have to do things.
- And that is the thing about - You think there's too much studying? There are some things that probably do need to be studied.
And let me say this about reparations.
The only reason that I would suggest that's something that's worthwhile doing today is to determine how we get out reparations, how we best say to people, "Look, we know this this nation has not done right by you.
This is what we're gonna do to give your children a chance and your grandchildren a chance.
" You were chair of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The CBC has had its difference with Senator/Chairman Biden over the years.
What's the biggest gap that the president has to make up with Black Americans, Black leadership? Oh, that's a tough one.
Because he comes in with more trust than just about any president has.
I think that with him, the biggest gap is, "We hear what you say.
Let us see what you do.
" And as Ed Koch would say, "How's he doing?" I think he's doing great.
Madam Secretary, thank you for mixing it up with Axios on HBO.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
3.
Private lives, a public reckoning / former representative Katie Hill - Thank you for being here.
- For sure.
I really appreciate this.
How long are you in D.
C.
for? I'm here for this week.
Then I'll go back to California next week.
In October 2019, after nine months in office, former Representative Katie Hill resigned when nude photos of her were published online and a past relationship with a campaign staffer was exposed.
You have an organization, HER Time, to help young women who want to run for office.
Are you on the path to redemption? Are you trying to rehabilitate yourself? I'm certainly trying.
I had about over a million dollars that was in my reelection campaign fund.
I decided to completely convert it to a PAC in order to support women candidates, to do advocacy on legislative issues that I thought would further equality.
The issues that I'm pushing for now, the SHIELD Act, which is the one that makes cyber exploitation a federal crime I was one of the co-sponsors of even before this had happened to me.
- Still in Congress, right.
- Yeah.
And now It made it into the House passage of the Violence Against Women Act.
I think it's over half the victims of revenge porn or cyber exploitation have experienced either attempted suicide or suicidal thoughts or have actually committed suicide.
If a young woman came to you and was like, "Katie, I want to run for office, but I'm really afraid.
I have all these naked pictures that I'm worried about being leaked," what would you tell them? Should they not run? Oh, I'd never tell 'em that.
My hope is that if this happens to somebody else in the future, that they don't resign and that instead they are able to take back the narrative.
Ultimately, it's gonna be voters and the public who have to say that, "This is this is a hard no.
This is not something that we're gonna accept as" because it's gonna happen to women far more than it happens to men.
How did you first find out about the photos? It was from your staff? Yeah.
That was just a horrible feeling.
My comms director, like, came into the room and her face was just like ashen.
And she turned her phone and handed it to me.
And I saw it, and I was just like you just, like, your whole stomach drops.
The whole staff is looking at you for, "What's your next move gonna be?" And meanwhile, I'm like, "Fuckin' know.
I don't know what my next move should be.
" 30, 31 years old.
That was that was a lot.
What happened to you when those photos were released and you made the decision to resign? My former colleagues reached out and said, "Don't resign.
You've got this.
Just wait it out.
Scandals pass.
" There were rumors that there were troves of other texts, and pictures, and so on and so forth.
And I'm like, "I can't keep putting my staff through that.
" And personally, I just can't take that, like, wondering what's next.
It was my mom who finally kind of said, "You don't have to keep doing this.
" When she said that, I just felt this relief I could stop this, you know, barrage of just like a horror show.
Having seen other people who've had scandals since I left, Cuomo and you know, of course Matt Gaetz.
And you see that and of course they don't resign.
You really wonder how much of it was the pressure I put on myself because I was a woman and because I'd been an advocate for the #MeToo movement, and how much of it was sexism, and how much of it was the public shaming aspect of it, the revenge porn aspect of it.
You've said that you've had people reach out saying, "You didn't have to resign.
Why did you resign?" Do you regret that at all? In hindsight, now I do think it was politically survivable.
What about within the party? Did you feel like you had their support also when this was happening? I feel like I had their support behind the scenes.
I would have liked more public support.
Did you think that was wrong, to have a consensual relationship with a subordinate? Would I ever do it again? No, absolutely not.
I let those boundaries blur, and that shouldn't have happened.
Yeah, I mean, it was the right thing to do? No.
But I do know for a fact that it was consensual.
We're in a generation, you're in a generation, of people who are living their lives entirely online.
Can you have a past and still run for office? Yeah.
I think it's the question of our time.
And if we want to have authentic politicians, if we want to have people who represent us that have real lived experience and who haven't been kind of sculpted as part of a political family, my hope is that we choose people who are not fake but that are that are real and that, you know, might have had messy lives.
- 'Cause that's how most of us - It's reality.
Yeah.
- Do you think you'll run again? - I don't know.
It would take a lot for me to run in '22.
There's gotta be a very compelling reason for me to want to do it, and we'll just have to see if that comes to be.
4.
Flight plan / United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby Dallas Fort Worth International Airport I don't know if you were in this airport at the beginning of the pandemic, but I assume you were in some.
- Were these just empty hallways? - It was totally empty.
During the pandemic, United Airlines reduced flights by more than two-thirds.
A year later, it plans to return to 80% of its pre-pandemic U.
S.
schedule.
- Think we can take these off now.
- Yeah.
Scott, let's talk big state of travel here.
TSA estimated that air travel was down around 90% at the height of the pandemic.
How far back is the business? Domestic leisure travel is at more than 100%.
There's a huge desire for people to reconnect and unite with loved ones, friends, get back to experiencing life.
You think business travel is gonna come out back 100%.
You're in the minority on this.
Why are you so confident of that? Zoom is good for transactional events, but it's not good for building human relationships.
My guess is Zoom is gonna replace phone calls more than it's gonna replace business travel.
So we talked leisure travel.
We talked domestic business travel.
International long-haul, is this just a question of borders reopening? I think so.
Data, science, from our perspective seems pretty clear that it's time to start opening borders with places like the U.
K.
and probably the EU as well.
France and Spain have now said they're opening up.
And bookings go through the roof.
The difference is the Europeans cannot come to the U.
S.
And the truth is it hurts our economy here.
Talk to me about this idea of vaccine passports for international travel.
What is United doing on that? So at United, I think it's easier than any other airline to upload your vaccine through the United app, and we can give you a green check mark.
Is it something you're requiring for certain parts of types of travel? Well, the government agencies are requiring it.
So United Airlines on our own are not requiring it.
And we're in Dallas today.
As you know, Texas is one of several states.
They have said to businesses and governments, "You can't ask about vaccination.
" So if I'm gonna fly internationally with United, how do you balance that? Yeah.
So we're required by the governments on the other side But the plane's leaving from here though.
Texas rules you think would Well, I'm not the lawyer.
But what I would say is we haven't had a problem with it yet.
Let's talk about the future.
Just in the last couple weeks, United announced a contract for $3 billion worth of supersonic jets.
And the last time anyone in the U.
S.
flew on a supersonic plane, that was the Concorde, which doesn't fly anymore.
Why make a bet on supersonic now? The Concorde stopped flying because of safety concerns but also economic concerns.
It was an incredibly expensive airplane to fly.
This airplane I think is being built to be economic and to have the same kind of pricing that normal business class pricing has.
Supersonic flight is gonna be at least at the outset right now were it to happen it's gonna be over oceans, right? You're talking New York to London or San Francisco to Tokyo.
Could you foresee the US permitting supersonic flight over land? Not unless there's some technology to reduce the sonic boom.
And there is work going on.
I know the Air Force has worked on it, and others are working on technology to minimize sonic booms.
But I would guess that's not on the horizon yet.
Scott, what is the United Aviate Academy? Aviate Academy is really about training the next generation of pilots.
You know, down the road, there probably is gonna be a pilot shortage here in the United States.
Why? Why do you expect that? The military produces far fewer pilots today than they did in the Vietnam and Cold War era.
And it's hard to become a pilot, a commercial airline pilot, on your own if you're not going through the military.
How is diversity and diversity targets working into the Aviate Academy? We have committed that 50% of the classes will be women or people of color.
Today, only 19% of our pilots at United Airlines are women or people of color.
And, by the way, from all the data I've seen, that's the highest of any airline in the country.
White males don't just dominate in the cockpits; also in the C-suite at United Airlines.
At United, I'm proud of the diversity that we actually have in our C-suite.
I think if you look around corporate America Correct me if I'm saying though.
This is just based off your website, the people you list as executives.
But out of 11 people, three are women.
I believe one is a person of color.
That's correct.
But in corporate America, I think, you know That's a low bar.
How do you raise your own bar? Well a lot of this is, you know, focusing on it.
We have programs to one of the things we do is for every job when we do an interview, we require women and people of color to be involved in the interview process.
Bringing people in early in their careers as well and giving them those opportunities and creating a stronger bench.
Since things have started to reopen, has there been one assumption that you've maybe had to pivot just in the last couple weeks? Well, the recovery has been even faster than I thought it would be.
And once somebody goes out and travels for the first time, it's invigorating.
So I'm excited to be a part of the psychological recovery of the country and the world.
The velocity of sound.
Escalating to Concorde's regular speed, Mach 2, twice the speed of sound, a thought that may have terrified the 1930s.
Now, it's recognized as a quick, clean, comfortable way to cross oceans and continents.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
AXIOS WHAT MATTERS 1.
Imran Khan / an interview with Pakistan's prime minister Jonathan, you're in steamy Islamabad.
You're about to interview the prime minister, Imran Khan, a former cricket star.
Pakistan is squarely in the sights of the Biden administration right now.
America is going to completely withdraw its military from Afghanistan by September the 11th.
The question of whether Pakistan allows American special forces and CIA to base themselves in Pakistan could have really direct impacts on whether terrorism flourishes again in Afghanistan and ultimately comes back to hit America at home.
Prime Minister Khan, the U.
S.
military is withdrawing from Afghanistan after 20 years.
Are you happy about that? Happy in one way because there was never going to be any military solution in Afghanistan.
Anxious that they're leaving.
Without a political settlement, there's a possibility of civil war.
What would a political settlement look like in your mind? A political settlement in Afghanistan would mean a sort of a coalition government, a government from the Taliban side and the other side.
There is no other solution.
Do you think the Americans made a mistake by saying, "We're getting out by September the 11th"? Difficult.
They have got themselves in such a big mess.
They had to give some sort of time frame.
But the moment they gave a time frame, Taliban would have considered that a victory.
How do you feel about the prospect of the Taliban effectively controlling Afghanistan? Are you happy to welcome them into the community of nations? As far as Pakistan is concerned, whoever represents the people of Afghanistan, we will deal with them.
But what if they're not democratically elected? Does it not concern you on some level that this group of people is accumulating power right next door to you? Look, I'm not a spokesman for Taliban.
For me to say what they are doing or what they shouldn't be doing is pointless.
In case Taliban go for an all-out victory, there is going to be incredible amount of bloodshed.
And let me tell you, the country that is going to suffer the most after Afghanistan is gonna be Pakistan.
We already have 3 million Afghan refugees here.
And this could lead another exodus.
So that is our biggest concern.
The Americans, before they leave, there must be a settlement.
Let's talk about the relationship with the United States.
The American CIA director, Bill Burns, made an unannounced visit here to Islamabad.
Why? Ever since 9/11, there's constantly been touch between our intelligence agencies.
- Did you meet with him? - No, I didn't.
- Did anyone from your administration? - Yes.
Our head of ISI.
The Americans want to have their spies here and special forces based here in Pakistan to keep an eye on what's happening across the border.
Will you allow the American government to have CIA here in Pakistan to conduct cross-border counterterrorism missions against Al Qaeda, ISIS, or the Taliban? Absolutely not.
- There's no way we way we will - Seriously? any bases, any sort of action from Pakistani territory into Afghanistan.
Absolutely not.
Pakistan suffered 70,000 casualties, more than any other country, by joining the American war.
We cannot afford any more military actions from our territory.
We will be partners in peace, not in conflict.
The American military right now is discussing doing air strikes to support the Afghan forces against the Taliban.
Would you allow the American Air Force to use your airspace for those air strikes? We are not going to be part of any conflict anymore.
But you haven't decided yet whether you'll let them use your airspace.
This hasn't been discussed at all.
So.
- What's your feeling about it? - I don't know.
We'll discuss this.
You know, why would the Americans be using bombing Afghanistan to after it hasn't worked for 20 years, why would it work again? Have you spoken to Joe Biden since he took office? - No, I haven't.
- Is there a reason for that? Whenever he has time, he can speak to me.
But at the moment, clearly he has other priorities.
What would you say to him if you had a meeting with him? The U.
S.
has a big responsibility.
Most powerful nation in the world.
This is almost 1.
4 billion people living in the subcontinent.
We are held hostage one dispute in Kashmir, a disputed territory.
According to the United Nations Security Council resolutions, there should have been a plebiscite for the people of Kashmir to decide about their own future.
That has never taken place.
It's festering.
It can easy if the Americans have the resolve, the will, this can be sorted out.
Intelligence analysts say that Pakistan has the fastest-growing nuclear arsenal anywhere in the world.
- I don't think - Why? I don't know where they've come up with this.
Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is simply as a deterrent to protect ourselves.
But you're growing it, not shrinking it.
I'm not sure whether we are growing it or not because Really? As far as I know, our nuclear the only one purpose, it's not an offensive thing.
Any country which has a neighbor seven times the size, as Pakistan has, would be worried.
Is your goal vis-a-vis India and Pakistan nuclear disarmament? I am completely against nuclear arms.
I always have been.
We've had three wars against India.
And ever since we've had nuclear deterrent, we have had no war between the two countries.
We have border skirmishes, but we've never faced war.
The moment there's a settlement on Kashmir, I believe the two neighbors will live as civilized people.
We will not need to have these nuclear deterrence.
Last year, you wrote an open letter to leaders of Muslim states asking them to unite against Islamophobia, particularly in the West.
Why did you feel the need to write that public letter? The problem is there's this big communication gap between the Islamic world and the Western societies.
It happened after 9/11 when the word "Islamic terrorism" came into currency.
The moment you say "Islamic terrorism," the man in the street in the West thinks that there's something in Islam which leads to terrorism or Islam causes radicalism.
After 9/11, anytime some terrorist act went on where a Muslim was involved, the entire 1.
3 billion Muslims started becoming targets.
Just across your border in western China, the Chinese government has imprisoned more than 1 million Uyghur Muslims in reeducation camps.
The Chinese government has tortured Muslims, forcibly sterilized them, and they've destroyed mosques in Xinjiang and also punished Muslims for fasting, praying, even giving Muslim names to their children.
Prime Minister, why are you so outspoken about Islamophobia in Europe and the United States but totally silent about the genocide of Muslims in western China? What our conversations have been with the Chinese, this is not the case, according to them.
The evidence is just overwhelming.
Whatever issues we have with the Chinese, we speak to them behind closed doors.
China has been one of the greatest friends to us in our most difficult times.
When we were really struggling, our economy was struggling, China came to our rescue.
So we respect the way they are.
And whatever issues we have, we speak behind closed doors.
How come this is such a big issue in the Western world? Why are the people of Kashmir ignored? It is much more relevant.
Compared to what might be going on the Uyghurs, 100,000 Kashmiris have been killed.
There are 800,000 Indian troops which have literally it's an open prison in Kashmir.
9 million Kashmiris are put there.
Why is that not an issue? So I think it's hypocrisy.
They've been a huge partner to you, China.
But on some level, doesn't it make you feel sick to have to be quiet because of all this money they're putting into Pakistan? I look around the world what's happening in Palestine, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Afghanistan.
Am I going to start talking about everything? I concentrate on what is happening on my border, in my country.
- This is on your border.
- Which is part of No, that is part of Pakistan.
100,000 Kashmiris are dying.
That concerns me more because half of Kashmir is in Pakistan.
This is a grotesquely large human rights atrocity.
First of all, I'm not sure about that because There's satellite images.
Our conversations with the Chinese, this is not the picture that comes from that side.
So just to a fine point on this, you are not in any way concerned about the Muslim Uyghurs in Xinjiang? Our discussions with Chinese will always be behind closed doors.
You were asked about the epidemic of sexual violence and rape in Pakistan.
And you acknowledged the seriousness of the problem, and you talked about Pakistan's strict laws.
You were also quoted as saying that the practice of women wearing veils, quote, "Is to stop temptation.
Not every man has willpower," you said.
On increasing vulgarity, "it will have consequences.
" And you were accused of rape victim blaming.
- How do you respond to that? - It is such nonsense.
I never said "veils.
" This was never said.
I said the concept of purdah.
Concept of purdah is avoid temptation in the society.
We don't have discos here.
We don't have night clubs.
So it is a completely different society, way of life here.
So if you raise temptation in the society to the point and all these young guys have nowhere to go, it has consequences in the society.
Do you think that what women wear has any effect, that that's part of this temptation? If a woman is wearing very few clothes, it will have an impact on the men unless they are robots.
I mean, it's common sense.
Yes.
But is it really going to provoke acts of sexual violence? It depends which society you live in.
If in a society people haven't seen that sort of thing, it will have an impact on them.
If you grow up in a society like you, maybe it won't on you.
This cultural imperialism, "Whatever is in our culture must be acceptable to everyone else.
" It's not.
But forgive me.
Like, when you were a cricket star, you know, you were seen in as a playboy.
There were photos of you with your shirts off in your bedroom.
It's a bit rich for you to be criticizing this.
This is not about me! - It's about my soci - But you're the messenger.
Jonathan, listen.
It's about my society.
My priority is how my society behaves, what reactions are caused in my society.
So when I see sex crime going through the roof, we sit down, we discuss how we're going to tackle this.
It is having an impact in my society.
We have to do something about it.
Thank you so much, Prime Minister.
Really appreciate your time.
Oh, Jonathan, you did go a bit long about that.
2.
Marcia Fudge / Secretary of Housing & Urban Development Marcia Fudge, Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, is responsible for national housing policy and enforcing fair housing laws.
Secretary Marcia Fudge, you are secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
You were mayor just down the road.
Is there anything that being mayor of Warrensville Heights, Ohio has in common with being a member of President Biden's Cabinet? Oh, no question about it.
I learned so many things.
Especially, I learned about housing.
I've built senior housing.
I've built new housing and new developments.
But the most important thing, I think, is when you're the mayor of a small town, you talk to people every day.
- Whether you want to or not.
- Exactly right.
On your watch, did you think you would be able to say that Juneteenth is a national holiday? I will say, Madam Secretary, that is the fastest I have ever seen two branches of government move.
The president signed it.
The next day, it was a federal holiday.
It was amazing.
I didn't expect to see it.
But I'll tell you what it shows us, what can happen when you are doing the right thing and everybody is on board.
The fact that Juneteenth is a national holiday in America, what would you say that shows us about the progress that's been made in America and where we have left to go? Oh, it's great progress.
I mean, who would have ever thought it? But we know that we have a lot of work to do.
As long as there are the kinds of discriminatory practices that even we as a government see every day, civil rights has a long way to go.
Fairness has a long way to go.
The federal moratorium on evictions that was put in place during COVID is slated to expire.
How worried are you that that could lead to a new wave of homelessness? I won't lie to you and say that I'm not worried.
I am worried.
But I do believe that the president has put in place the tools to keep that from happening.
There's $46 billion available to assist renters and homeowners who are behind.
And so I do believe once those resources come through the pipeline you will not see the kinds of evictions that people are expecting.
Over the course of the pandemic, would you say that by and large banks have been allies or impediments for homeowners? I can only speak to the banks that we deal with.
- And most of them have been allies.
- Did that surprise you? - You've had your fights.
- We have.
But I think the banks have figured it out.
It's much more costly for them to put somebody out of a house than to find a way to keep 'em in it.
You couldn't necessarily have counted on that.
Have you been a little surprised over the past year? I have been.
What do you think drove that realization? COVID.
COVID drove a lot of it.
Because we were all put in positions where we had to stop and rethink how we do business.
Madam Secretary, over the past 15 years, Black home ownership rates have gone dramatically down.
Home ownership rates for Asians, Hispanics went up.
What's happening? Part of our problem is that we have never totally enforced the Fair Housing Act.
That is why we are doing things like home ownership assistance, why we're addressing the student loan issue, why we're looking at how credit is distributed.
For people of color, especially Black people, home ownership is wealth.
It is it is not only wealth to us, but it is generational wealth.
You have some solutions.
One of them has to do with people who are loaded down with student debt.
Who has student debt? Poor people, Black people, brown people.
We're the people who carry most debt.
And so the system's already skewed toward us not being credit worthy.
What's your plan? The one thing we know is that a person that makes about $50,000 a year, if they want to purchase a home, maybe $200,000 or in that ballpark, they have $75,000 worth of student debt, they don't qualify.
Once we make the adjustments we'll make, that same person will qualify and will qualify at a rate that gives them an opportunity to go into a home with some equity but also be so vested in that home that they can afford to stay in that home.
California has a reparations task force looking at some of the generational consequences of historical racism, including redlining, evictions.
- Could that be effective? - I think it could be effective.
But at some point, we have to stop studying and we have to do things.
- And that is the thing about - You think there's too much studying? There are some things that probably do need to be studied.
And let me say this about reparations.
The only reason that I would suggest that's something that's worthwhile doing today is to determine how we get out reparations, how we best say to people, "Look, we know this this nation has not done right by you.
This is what we're gonna do to give your children a chance and your grandchildren a chance.
" You were chair of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The CBC has had its difference with Senator/Chairman Biden over the years.
What's the biggest gap that the president has to make up with Black Americans, Black leadership? Oh, that's a tough one.
Because he comes in with more trust than just about any president has.
I think that with him, the biggest gap is, "We hear what you say.
Let us see what you do.
" And as Ed Koch would say, "How's he doing?" I think he's doing great.
Madam Secretary, thank you for mixing it up with Axios on HBO.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
3.
Private lives, a public reckoning / former representative Katie Hill - Thank you for being here.
- For sure.
I really appreciate this.
How long are you in D.
C.
for? I'm here for this week.
Then I'll go back to California next week.
In October 2019, after nine months in office, former Representative Katie Hill resigned when nude photos of her were published online and a past relationship with a campaign staffer was exposed.
You have an organization, HER Time, to help young women who want to run for office.
Are you on the path to redemption? Are you trying to rehabilitate yourself? I'm certainly trying.
I had about over a million dollars that was in my reelection campaign fund.
I decided to completely convert it to a PAC in order to support women candidates, to do advocacy on legislative issues that I thought would further equality.
The issues that I'm pushing for now, the SHIELD Act, which is the one that makes cyber exploitation a federal crime I was one of the co-sponsors of even before this had happened to me.
- Still in Congress, right.
- Yeah.
And now It made it into the House passage of the Violence Against Women Act.
I think it's over half the victims of revenge porn or cyber exploitation have experienced either attempted suicide or suicidal thoughts or have actually committed suicide.
If a young woman came to you and was like, "Katie, I want to run for office, but I'm really afraid.
I have all these naked pictures that I'm worried about being leaked," what would you tell them? Should they not run? Oh, I'd never tell 'em that.
My hope is that if this happens to somebody else in the future, that they don't resign and that instead they are able to take back the narrative.
Ultimately, it's gonna be voters and the public who have to say that, "This is this is a hard no.
This is not something that we're gonna accept as" because it's gonna happen to women far more than it happens to men.
How did you first find out about the photos? It was from your staff? Yeah.
That was just a horrible feeling.
My comms director, like, came into the room and her face was just like ashen.
And she turned her phone and handed it to me.
And I saw it, and I was just like you just, like, your whole stomach drops.
The whole staff is looking at you for, "What's your next move gonna be?" And meanwhile, I'm like, "Fuckin' know.
I don't know what my next move should be.
" 30, 31 years old.
That was that was a lot.
What happened to you when those photos were released and you made the decision to resign? My former colleagues reached out and said, "Don't resign.
You've got this.
Just wait it out.
Scandals pass.
" There were rumors that there were troves of other texts, and pictures, and so on and so forth.
And I'm like, "I can't keep putting my staff through that.
" And personally, I just can't take that, like, wondering what's next.
It was my mom who finally kind of said, "You don't have to keep doing this.
" When she said that, I just felt this relief I could stop this, you know, barrage of just like a horror show.
Having seen other people who've had scandals since I left, Cuomo and you know, of course Matt Gaetz.
And you see that and of course they don't resign.
You really wonder how much of it was the pressure I put on myself because I was a woman and because I'd been an advocate for the #MeToo movement, and how much of it was sexism, and how much of it was the public shaming aspect of it, the revenge porn aspect of it.
You've said that you've had people reach out saying, "You didn't have to resign.
Why did you resign?" Do you regret that at all? In hindsight, now I do think it was politically survivable.
What about within the party? Did you feel like you had their support also when this was happening? I feel like I had their support behind the scenes.
I would have liked more public support.
Did you think that was wrong, to have a consensual relationship with a subordinate? Would I ever do it again? No, absolutely not.
I let those boundaries blur, and that shouldn't have happened.
Yeah, I mean, it was the right thing to do? No.
But I do know for a fact that it was consensual.
We're in a generation, you're in a generation, of people who are living their lives entirely online.
Can you have a past and still run for office? Yeah.
I think it's the question of our time.
And if we want to have authentic politicians, if we want to have people who represent us that have real lived experience and who haven't been kind of sculpted as part of a political family, my hope is that we choose people who are not fake but that are that are real and that, you know, might have had messy lives.
- 'Cause that's how most of us - It's reality.
Yeah.
- Do you think you'll run again? - I don't know.
It would take a lot for me to run in '22.
There's gotta be a very compelling reason for me to want to do it, and we'll just have to see if that comes to be.
4.
Flight plan / United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby Dallas Fort Worth International Airport I don't know if you were in this airport at the beginning of the pandemic, but I assume you were in some.
- Were these just empty hallways? - It was totally empty.
During the pandemic, United Airlines reduced flights by more than two-thirds.
A year later, it plans to return to 80% of its pre-pandemic U.
S.
schedule.
- Think we can take these off now.
- Yeah.
Scott, let's talk big state of travel here.
TSA estimated that air travel was down around 90% at the height of the pandemic.
How far back is the business? Domestic leisure travel is at more than 100%.
There's a huge desire for people to reconnect and unite with loved ones, friends, get back to experiencing life.
You think business travel is gonna come out back 100%.
You're in the minority on this.
Why are you so confident of that? Zoom is good for transactional events, but it's not good for building human relationships.
My guess is Zoom is gonna replace phone calls more than it's gonna replace business travel.
So we talked leisure travel.
We talked domestic business travel.
International long-haul, is this just a question of borders reopening? I think so.
Data, science, from our perspective seems pretty clear that it's time to start opening borders with places like the U.
K.
and probably the EU as well.
France and Spain have now said they're opening up.
And bookings go through the roof.
The difference is the Europeans cannot come to the U.
S.
And the truth is it hurts our economy here.
Talk to me about this idea of vaccine passports for international travel.
What is United doing on that? So at United, I think it's easier than any other airline to upload your vaccine through the United app, and we can give you a green check mark.
Is it something you're requiring for certain parts of types of travel? Well, the government agencies are requiring it.
So United Airlines on our own are not requiring it.
And we're in Dallas today.
As you know, Texas is one of several states.
They have said to businesses and governments, "You can't ask about vaccination.
" So if I'm gonna fly internationally with United, how do you balance that? Yeah.
So we're required by the governments on the other side But the plane's leaving from here though.
Texas rules you think would Well, I'm not the lawyer.
But what I would say is we haven't had a problem with it yet.
Let's talk about the future.
Just in the last couple weeks, United announced a contract for $3 billion worth of supersonic jets.
And the last time anyone in the U.
S.
flew on a supersonic plane, that was the Concorde, which doesn't fly anymore.
Why make a bet on supersonic now? The Concorde stopped flying because of safety concerns but also economic concerns.
It was an incredibly expensive airplane to fly.
This airplane I think is being built to be economic and to have the same kind of pricing that normal business class pricing has.
Supersonic flight is gonna be at least at the outset right now were it to happen it's gonna be over oceans, right? You're talking New York to London or San Francisco to Tokyo.
Could you foresee the US permitting supersonic flight over land? Not unless there's some technology to reduce the sonic boom.
And there is work going on.
I know the Air Force has worked on it, and others are working on technology to minimize sonic booms.
But I would guess that's not on the horizon yet.
Scott, what is the United Aviate Academy? Aviate Academy is really about training the next generation of pilots.
You know, down the road, there probably is gonna be a pilot shortage here in the United States.
Why? Why do you expect that? The military produces far fewer pilots today than they did in the Vietnam and Cold War era.
And it's hard to become a pilot, a commercial airline pilot, on your own if you're not going through the military.
How is diversity and diversity targets working into the Aviate Academy? We have committed that 50% of the classes will be women or people of color.
Today, only 19% of our pilots at United Airlines are women or people of color.
And, by the way, from all the data I've seen, that's the highest of any airline in the country.
White males don't just dominate in the cockpits; also in the C-suite at United Airlines.
At United, I'm proud of the diversity that we actually have in our C-suite.
I think if you look around corporate America Correct me if I'm saying though.
This is just based off your website, the people you list as executives.
But out of 11 people, three are women.
I believe one is a person of color.
That's correct.
But in corporate America, I think, you know That's a low bar.
How do you raise your own bar? Well a lot of this is, you know, focusing on it.
We have programs to one of the things we do is for every job when we do an interview, we require women and people of color to be involved in the interview process.
Bringing people in early in their careers as well and giving them those opportunities and creating a stronger bench.
Since things have started to reopen, has there been one assumption that you've maybe had to pivot just in the last couple weeks? Well, the recovery has been even faster than I thought it would be.
And once somebody goes out and travels for the first time, it's invigorating.
So I'm excited to be a part of the psychological recovery of the country and the world.
The velocity of sound.
Escalating to Concorde's regular speed, Mach 2, twice the speed of sound, a thought that may have terrified the 1930s.
Now, it's recognized as a quick, clean, comfortable way to cross oceans and continents.