Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s01e05 Episode Script
Golden Era
1 Okay, here's what the Church has to say about Marc and Claire Headley.
"The Church disputes many of the statements made by Marc and Claire Headley.
They filed two ill-founded lawsuits against the Church, seeking millions in damages.
The issue of Mrs.
Headley's pregnancy was part of the Headleys' failed lawsuits and was aimed at generating hostile, inflammatory p toward the Church to accompany their frivolous litigation.
" Leah: You see these two cars parked in the parking lot there? - Yeah.
- Yeah.
I just want to keep an eye on them when we pull out.
They seem to be together 'cause they're talking.
You see how they're talking to each other? Yep.
Yeah.
The guy on the right has got his left window open.
Yeah.
Look.
They're just totally staring at us.
You know what I mean? They're moving.
There he is.
Oh, there he is.
No.
Let him go.
Stop.
Let him go.
There you go.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
- No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
- Okay.
Watch this.
- Hey, buddy.
- How are you? Mike: I'm good.
Who you working for? - Yeah, right.
- Yeah, okay.
Piece of [bleep.]
Yeah, they're not TMZ.
Because TMZ and photographers they they follow you only to get the shot.
- Where's your camera? You don't want a shot? - Yeah.
You're from TMZ, and you don't want a shot? - Yeah.
- Ha.
Right.
By tracking airline reservations.
No.
But you can do it.
Well, it doesn't intimidate me.
It makes me want to retaliate, you know? 'Cause I'm not gonna [bleep.]
stand for it.
It's one thing if it's paparazzi because that's the business that I'm in.
But I'm not in the business of being stalked by [bleep.]
assholes I don't know.
I am the writer of the textbooks of Scientology.
The aim and goal is to put man in a-a mental condition, where he him can solve his own problems.
It offers you a sense of purpose in life.
Not only are you fixing yourself, but you're also helping mankind.
Without any Scientology organization, things are not going to change on this planet.
Woman: After years of slowly questioning Scientology Man: Leah Remini in her very public break with Scientology I didn't want to find out that what I had done my whole life was a lie.
[Doorbell rings.]
[Cheers and applause.]
Fight for your family.
Fight for your daughters, your sons.
Get them out of this thing.
You're not going to continue to lie to people and abuse people and take their money and their lives.
If I can stop one, then I'm going to do it.
Captioning Provided by A+E Networks [Cheers and applause.]
Good evening.
Five times a year, you are required to be at a Scientology event.
It's mandatory that you're there.
You're dressed up.
And they start out with this movie.
Man: When the history of this planet is finally told, it will be a tale of a determined few who rose up against overwhelming odds and stood firm for the rights of man.
The horses galloping.
Look at this shit.
Like, we're doing some man.
We're slaying the dragons.
Look at us.
Man: Our hallmark is unrelenting commitment and enduring compassion, extending a hand, however, wherever, and whenever.
Leah: And then these graphics come up "And we've saved that country and we took this drug company down and we won this and we saved thousands of lives here and hundreds of thousands here," and things like "millions.
" So, if you had any doubts, which I did, when you hear some of these statistics, you're like, "Oh, my God, we are changing the world, so all of our sacrifices, the money, the time, the missed vacations it's all worth it because, look, overall, look at what we're doing.
" I don't think that Leah realizes the level of deception that is involved in those events.
She doesn't know what went on behind the scenes.
She doesn't know how those events got put together and how those things are staged.
This morning we're gonna meet Marc Headley.
Marc was integral to the production of all of the events that were put on.
He produced a lot of those events.
He was intimately involved and oversaw all aspects of Scientology's propaganda machine.
Leah: Hi, honey.
- Good to see you.
- You too.
My name is Marc Headley, and I was a Scientologist for 25 years.
And I was in Golden Era Productions or "Gold" and I left in 2005.
When I was 15 years old, I signed a billion-year Sea Org contract.
I'm pretty sure I had no idea what I was doing when I was 15.
I wasn't in a position to carefully make the decision to sign a billion-year contract.
I was very into audio/visual stuff.
As a kid, I took apart TVs and radios and fixed them and knew how to solder and do all that sort of thing.
And I was told, "Well, there's a place at the international headquarters where that's all they do, is audio/visual stuff.
" So, for me, I thought, "Oh, that's a that's a no-brainer.
" The name of the Scientology facility was called Golden Era Productions.
It's a propaganda machine which produces all audio/visual products for Scientology.
I worked directly for David Miscavige, the head of Scientology.
When I first arrived at Golden Era productions, it was a huge property, over 500 acres, lush, green lawns, immaculate buildings, facilities, dining areas.
It was amazing.
But it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
It was very much a pressure cooker to get stuff done.
It was, "We don't have any time.
We don't have any money.
" In the 15 years that I was there, I probably pulled 500 all-nighters in that 15 years.
Multiple times a year, you'd just stay for a week.
You wouldn't even go home.
Now, you were what? What was your job in the Sea Org? For a good majority of the time, I was either - the pre-production director - Mm-hmm.
which we did all of the research and assembly, costumes, makeup, sets, and props, all the preparatory actions for the events.
And then for a good amount of time, I was either the assistant producer or the producer, - so - So, you did these events.
You You produced these events.
Full time.
Welcome to our planetary New Year's party and the night we rock into 2006.
[Cheers and applause.]
It was my job to produce these events to make it look like Scientology was expanding.
There's a Golden Era Productions casting office in the Celebrity Centre for the specific function of having auditions to get people to appear in Scientology promotional films or videos.
There were times when I doubted the Church and then I'd go to an event and I'd see these statistics.
And I remember thinking, like, "Wow, Leah, you're an Look at the amazing things that the Church is doing.
" I mean, I can tell you from being involved in the production of events and promotional videos for Scientology over a 15-year period, it's most likely bull.
Man: Across the network in totality, we are now talking a Narconon South Europe that has rehabilitated more than 10,000 from terminal addiction, moreover, a decline in usage - across the entire - consumption table, with heroin, hallucinogens, cocaine, and cannabis plunging an unheard-of 39%.
Because of these statistics, I was, like, kind of brought back in.
- Mm-hmm.
- It makes me believe.
- Yeah.
- And it makes me give up my money, and it makes me give up my time.
And I recently just found out that these statistics are not true.
Yeah.
A lot of times, the way what happens we would put together stories, possible stories - to be used for an event.
- Mm-hmm.
And then the scriptwriters would then take those stories, and then they would try to flush them out into something that could be talked about at the event.
- Let's say 20 - Like, give give me an example.
Let's say there's 25 people that are participating in Scientology activities in a certain town.
Then that would go to the scriptwriters, and then that would turn into "dozens.
" Okay.
Because "dozens" sounds more than 25.
- Right.
- But "dozens" is technically correct.
- Okay.
- It's It's two dozen.
- That's dozens.
- Okay.
That might go to David Miscavige, who approved every single speech, every single video script.
He would get the script, and then maybe he would say, "Dozens? - That's That's nothing.
" - Right.
"You know, we're we're talking we need to this we need to have the big picture.
What's a going where Scientology is going global.
We can't talk about dozens.
" So, maybe it turns into "scores" - or "teams" or - Mm-hmm.
even "hundreds.
" It It It It It Even though it's an outright lie.
It morphs into something bigger than it is.
Man: And that's how more than 14,000 inmates were suddenly reaching for the 21 precepts, with more than 5,000 completing the full extension course.
Now combine it with better than 1,000 guards also trained on precept application, and that's how recidivism has now plummeted to unparalleled lows, factually just 1%.
Why would our Church lie to us? - Correct.
- They They sit there and go, "Well, obviously this is true.
David Miscavige isn't gonna stand up there and lie to us.
" The best way I can represent it is, the events are not a documentary.
They are a commercial.
You know, you do think you're watching a documentary.
You don't think you're watching fiction.
You don't think you're watching a movie, made up, you know? You think you're you're being told the truth.
And any one of those people will tell you they believe it.
We all believed it.
So, it it's hard to hear.
Man: It's no less than 81 million LRH books and lectures this decade, far surpassing our first 50 years combined.
And if it all sounds stratospheric, you're right because, stack them end to end, and you're literally heading for deep space.
[Cheers and applause.]
Marc: There's a policy letter than L.
Ron Hubbard wrote.
It's one of the five tapes that you listen to when you join the Sea Org.
And it's a lecture that L.
Ron Hubbard gave to Sea Org members in the 1960s, which is, whoever controls the public relations controls the world.
If you are in the real world and you see Scientology, it doesn't look like it does in the events.
They're so obviously blatantly misrepresented - Right.
- that you could take any video in the past 10 years - Mm-hmm.
- you could give it to somebody and say, "I'm gonna pay you to fact-check this thing.
" - Okay.
- And they would obliterate it.
Woman: Or the inner-city Detroit school with D-minus grade averages.
But when an Applied Scholastics team turned up, those students had passing grades by the next week, while just eight weeks later, those students averaged A-plus.
This whole subject of these events is is really interesting because literally nobody has ever talked about this before.
- Mm-hmm.
- Really, nobody has ever exposed what really goes on in these events.
If Scientologists the in-the-bubble people saw this, this would have a greater impact on them than any other single thing that they would see.
It's promoting something to its parishioners to extract money, time, and your life.
Even on the Church's own website, they claim they are the fastest-growing religion in the world.
Why no one has taken them to task on that alone.
- Well - Well, even on that one, - they use their square footage - Mm-hmm.
- to back up that statement - Mm-hmm.
because in the last 10 years, they've gone from "X" hundred thousand square footage to so many millions of square footage.
Man: Combine it all with future Ideal Org square footage now spanning the diameter of the moon and a worldwide array of Org's missions and groups that's tripled in scope just since the new millennium, and, yes, that's the power and glory of source.
There's no more people that are involved in Scientology, but their buildings have have spread into further, uh - Yes, because they're - plots of land.
Because they have a billion dollars.
Yeah, and they can't they can't stockpile that money.
- Right.
- They need to buy real estate - so they can still - Right.
maintain their non not-for-profit status or whatever the - Right.
- legality, the loophole is that they need to buy all these buildings.
Right.
Anytime I questioned the Church, I was confronted with, "But look at all the good things we're doing.
Look.
We have new buildings going up all the time," which would imply that people were in them.
Marc: In the end of 2004, I actually had to visit some of these new organizations Ideal Organizations.
that had been set up as an Ideal Organization.
- Right.
- And they were ghost towns.
Maybe you were just there at the wrong time, Marc.
Well, that's the thing.
- I went to several organizations - Mm-hmm.
at all different times throughout a - a several-day period.
- Mm-hmm.
And they were all ghost towns, uniformly.
- There were no staff there.
- Mm-hmm.
There were no public there.
And the systems the audio/visual systems that I was there to make sure were working were not even being used.
- Right.
- There was nothing happening.
So, you, as a dedicated Sea Org member, who signed a billion-year contract is this the time you start going That's when the wheels start turning, where, "Wait a minute.
We're not getting anything done" Right.
"towards this goal of making a better civilization.
" For me, that was one of the final nails in the coffin, was seeing there's no result.
- Right.
- And And there And And these things that we are putting on the event whatever we thought they were and how we made we made and manipulated them, it's worse than that.
- Right.
- There's just nothing happening.
- Right.
- So, it's complete, utter lies.
Man: When you tally it all across every sector, there are now 12.
4 million people out there who will tell you they'll remember 2005 as the year they discovered LRH technology.
Do you believe that most Scientologists and I'm gonna include you, too, because even though you were both high-ranking Sea Org members, you were still a a Scientologist, right, believing that we might clear the planet.
That was the goal, yes.
"Clearing the planet" is a term that is used often in Scientology as the ultimate objective to eradicate all of these bad, reactive minds that everybody has that cause war, that cause insanity, that cause upset, et cetera, et cetera.
Because you believed, in your heart of hearts, that you were going to achieve clearing this planet this lifetime.
If you take those statistics, the ones they do release, and you do the math, you're you're talking about Scientology - achieving that goal of - When? In tens of thousands of years.
I believed we were doing these great things in the world.
To find out that, in fact, these are lies These people in the Shrine Auditorium clapping and standing up like, they believe they're doing these things.
That's why they're giving up their children.
That's why they're giving up their money.
That's why they're not going on vacations and living a normal, nice life because they're giving their money to you because they believe you.
And And we should believe a church when they tell us, "We're doing these things.
" "Fraud" is not the right word.
It's like you stole these people's faith.
This is not something fun.
- This is not a fun - This is exhausting.
- project.
- You're exactly right.
You know? It's like, if I'm not actually doing it, I'm thinking about it.
Do you think anybody's gonna now be in our lobby of the hotel? Man: Who's this guy? What's that guy doing? - With the phone, right? - Yep.
There's two guys with, like, their phones - See Do you see - Yeah, look at look at how they're, like, pointing this way.
They both have their phones pointed this way.
Mike: I got the guy with his phone.
- No.
The other one, too.
- Oh, I just - The other one had his phone - Oh, I could just see one.
You mean the guy right here? Oh, yeah.
- Both of them.
Yeah.
- Yeah, I got them.
We should ask these guys how long he's been sitting there.
- Yeah.
Let's ask.
- Yeah.
Excuse me.
Where's the security? Do you Are you aware of how long those guys have been sitting in the lobby? With the phone pointed at us? Can you ask if they're a guest? Man #2: They've been sitting there a while, actually.
I didn't even notice them until just now.
Can Can you ask if they're guests of the hotel? I can.
Leah: No, it's the other guy I'm worried about, - not that guy the other guy.
- It's both of them.
- I can't see the other guy.
- It's both of them.
Do you see the other guy behind him? - Yes.
Yes.
- Yeah.
They're both doing the same thing.
- Yeah.
- I say we hop out and Do you want to confront them, Rinder, or you want to let them be? Let's see what the guy says when he comes back.
What about the other one? Did he check the other guy? No.
He only did that one guy.
- Oh, he's out of here.
- Oh, he's leaving.
- Oh, they're both leaving.
- Oh, they're out of here.
They're both leaving? - Interesting.
- Those two Man: Oh, and they both have similar-looking Those two are P.
I.
's for sure.
Okay.
- Who's got a camera? - I do.
Why Why were you taking video of us? Man #3: I'm waiting for a friend, man.
What are you taking my picture for? - Why were you taking video of us? - Don't do that.
You're not a private investigator? I'm waiting for a friend.
Is that what you're gonna tell me? - I'm waiting for a friend.
- You're gonna tell me that you're not a private investigator or this jerk here was with you? - He's not a - I don't know who you are.
You're not a private investigator, either? Who are you people? Who are you? Who are you? You there? Leah: I got a picture of their license plate.
One man it turns out that he owns his own private-investigative company.
And another guy who claimed that he worked for TMZ was driving that man who owns the private-investigating company he was driving his wife's car.
So, just as they have access to information, so do I.
Man: With members from all four corners of Earth Look how lovely this is.
I want you to live here, Mike Rinder.
You could buy a house right here, and you could be next to your friends.
Mike: Yep.
Like, this would have been my dream as a kid to have friends and ride my bike and like that.
I don't I don't even think I had a bike.
I mean, if you're ever gonna come out of the sewer, this would be the place to come and destimulate.
- That's for sure.
- Yeah, for sure.
- Right? - Yep.
- I like this.
- Welcome.
- I love it here.
- Thank you.
- Hello! - This is Grayson.
- Hi! - That's Grayson.
- Grayson, that's Leah.
- Can you say, "Hi, Leah"? - Do you give hugs? - Yes.
He gives big hugs.
- Give her a hug.
- Let me see.
Let me see.
- Especially - Oh, my goodness! That's the best hug ever! My name is Claire Headley, and I was a Scientologist for 30 years.
I was a member of the Sea Organization.
I escaped in January 2005.
I joined the Sea Org when I was 16.
- Mm-hmm.
- And within three months, I was promoted to the Int Base - Mm-hmm.
- in Hemet.
And the International Base is where all the executives of Scientology are.
- That's right.
- The top the top tier.
I had been told, "Oh, it's an oasis of glory.
You get to exercise.
You get to meet celebrities.
" - So, you'd go up to Hemet.
- Yes.
And what is the Yeah.
And the second I arrived there, the illusion faded immediately.
You know, it's a heavily guarded property - Mm-hmm.
- and a lot of secrecy and a lot of control, specifically, "Okay, you're you're not allowed to make phone calls without permission and with someone listening.
If you want to send a letter to your family, you need to leave it open, and it needs to be read first.
" At this time, are you thinking, "I should leave"? You know, I Yes, I had that thought, - like, "Holy" - Yeah.
"How How am I gonna get out of here?" But I already knew, if I left, I would be declared a Suppressive Person and instantly cut off from my family.
- I would be given a freeloader bill.
- Mm.
- And at 16 - Right.
Right.
to consider a bill for $40,000 - Yeah.
- It's overwhelming.
You know, you have to make up the damage for having left the Sea Org, and you have to pay back the money for the courses that you took.
So, it's called a freeloader's debt.
So, you have to pay that off.
So, you were a senior executive in the Church.
Yes.
Being an RTC, which is where I worked for eight years What does that stand for? That's Religious Technology Center.
- And what is that? - It's essentially David Miscavige's personal organization.
- Okay.
- Those people are at his beck and call and and expected to do whatever he demands of them.
Marc: It's the police organization of Scientology.
So, let's go through when you started noticing the abuses.
I would say the first few things I-I started to observe was, "A," people would escape frequently.
So, you saw people escaping or you saw - I heard of people escaping.
- You heard.
Staff were required to attend courses and training every once in a while, and it would be, "Oh, Joe's not here.
He He escaped.
" That happened on a regular basis.
- Like almost weekly - Mm-hmm.
or every other week, you'd hear of someone escaping.
"Oh, what happened?" "Oh, he jumped the fence and he ran off and they're searching for him out " I mean, the the the base is in the middle of nowhere.
- Right.
- It's four miles to the nearest sign of humanity.
- Right.
- So, it's not easy to escape, either.
And, you know, I would they they would be, "Oh, the whole base is on security lockdown because Marcus jumped the fence.
" And they would have strobe lights so you could see, and they're, like, searching for him.
It was It was surreal, like Yeah.
Mike: Then you see them out doing the gardening - or shoveling - Yeah.
For years.
- or cleaning Dumpsters for years.
- Yes.
And those are the guys that got brought back.
Like, there was a friend of mine.
She was a really nice girl, and she tried to escape one night.
She made it not even 50 feet.
And she fell in a ditch and got stuck there.
It was in the middle of the night.
I mean, it sounds pitiful, - but it was the reality of - Right.
- She fell in a ditch.
- She fell in a ditch.
- They found her.
- She got stuck there.
They found her and brought her back.
- Right.
- The end.
You know, I had seen people tracked down to the ends of the Earth.
I mean, one one RTC staff member escaped to South Africa and was tracked down and brought back.
In the Sea Org, you're not allowed to have sex with a boyfriend or a girlfriend.
- You have to get married.
- That's right.
So, you were married at what age? I was 17.
Marc was 19.
When I joined the Sea Organization, I knew that their policy was no kids allowed.
If a woman got pregnant, she would instantly be scheduled to go and get an abortion.
If she refused in any manner, she would be segregated, not allowed to speak with her husband, put under security watch, put on heavy manual labor, and interrogated for for her crimes as to why she wanted to leave because the reality was That getting pregnant meant you wanted to leave.
- That's exactly right.
Yes.
- Right, right.
At one point, I made a list of all the people I absolutely knew had had abortions.
And it was more than 50 women.
Some of them had had up to six.
If you're in the Sea Organization and you got pregnant, you were expected to have an abortion.
The Church claims that pressuring women to have an abortion has either never happened or doesn't happen anymore.
The truth of the matter is, it is a mortal sin to get pregnant as a Sea Org member because that means you will have to leave the Sea Organization and thereby "break" your billion-year contract.
I absolutely swore that I would never have an abortion.
I wanted kids.
Next thing I know, I missed a period, so I have to go see the medical officer.
She had me do the test with her there, and sure enough, it was positive.
And she said, "Well, you're gonna need to get an abortion.
" Basically, the sentiment there is, "Get over it.
Get back to work.
" And meanwhile, inside, I'm dying.
Of course.
Yeah.
- You know, it's just - I know.
worst fear come true, you know? - Some wounds you can't heal.
- Yep.
Of course, yes, I can go, "Well, now I have three beautiful children who are are my life.
" But it doesn't make it easier to deal with it.
It doesn't make it any easier ever.
And it doesn't make me feel better about not being strong enough to tell them to go [bleep.]
themselves.
So I didn't know what was really going on until we started this project.
You see how damaging it is for people to not to be in something like this and not be able to have children, to not have a real relationship, to not be enjoying their lives, really.
So, what ultimately did it for you guys? - To leave? - Yeah.
What did it for me was Basically, what I had originally thought I was gonna be doing in terms of helping people, I knew I wasn't doing that.
I knew I wasn't helping people.
In the mid-1990s, I was doing a project for David Miscavige directly.
And he was walking through an area that I was in charge of, and I made a snide comment sort of under my breath in response to something that he had said.
And he he literally just like a powder keg, he went off.
And he just started punching me and slugging me and pushed me up against a desk unit.
And I wore glasses at the time and they were all jacked up and bent and the lenses fell out.
And I didn't fall down, though.
I got kind of got back up and, you know, straightened myself out.
And then I looked at him like, "Okay, it's on.
" And as soon as I looked at him and did that, he these guys just took me out of the building, just manhandled me, escorted me right out of the building.
And as we were going out, he said, "Did you see that? That guy was gonna hit me back.
" And And again under my breath I was like, "You're [bleep.]
You're damn right I was.
" At that point, I sort of realized, "Okay, the pope of Scientology just beat the shit out of me.
" Like, I don't know how you come back from that.
Like, for me, that was that was it.
"There's not a lot here keeping me here, including my wife, including all the abuse.
All this stuff is is This is not a good reason to stay here.
" Our relationship was completely strained.
I never see her.
I'm never with her.
She doesn't even come home at night.
She's working.
Married Sea Org members are very often on different schedules altogether.
We were on different meal schedules, so I didn't get to eat with him, you know, even for our 30 minutes that we were assigned to eat dinner.
Definitely a nontraditional relationship, you know, married-couple setting.
Marc: The morning that I escaped, I called her at 4:00 in the morning, and I said, "Are you coming home?" - She was still working.
- Yeah.
And she said, "I'm gonna try and come home and take a shower at least, and I'll talk to you then.
" 'Cause I wanted to tell her, "Uh, we're we're getting out of here.
" Right, but she didn't know when you called her.
No.
And I couldn't tell her on the phone, "Oh, yeah, by the way, I'm gonna escape.
" - Right.
- "So, when you get home, I'm gonna have all your stuff packed.
" - Right.
Right.
- You can't do that.
And she had ratted me out several times before when I did something, and it was, like, on the downlow.
- Yeah.
- And then when she got wind of it, - it was no longer on the downlow.
- Right.
So, it it could go any way, but I think that I would have gone, but, you know I think she would have And I think she would have ratted me out - Right.
- 'cause she had a history of ratting me out.
And I never ratted her out ever.
- Right.
- But she never came home.
- She never came home that night.
- Mm-hmm.
So, the morning came, and I said, "I am out of here.
" I had a motorcycle that had been parked at my house.
How come you were allowed to have that? Because she was in Religious Technology Center priorly and we still lived with our Religious Technology Center staff members.
That was outside the gates.
That was right outside the gates of the property.
- So there was no security? - In houses.
- There There were - There were cameras on the - There was security.
- Uh-huh.
Like, there was a camera on the roof of our house - Yeah.
- that showed the road.
- Yeah.
- They They monitored our movement very closely.
Okay.
When I drove out on my motorcycle with a suitcase on the back of my motorcycle and a few hundred bucks in my pocket, they were right behind me.
[Truck honking.]
They yelled out at me on the highway, "Pull over.
Pull over.
Turn around.
Come back.
Come back.
" They knew I was escaping.
[Honking continues.]
They continually yelled, "Come back, come back," and I didn't.
And they just took their security truck, and they just ran me right off the road.
When that happened, then I switched into, you know, fight-or-flight mode, - like, "What the Ohh.
" - Right.
The security guard took the key out of the bike.
So that you couldn't get back on it.
So that I couldn't get back on it - and start it up and go.
- Okay.
And he said, "Get into this truck.
- We're going.
" - Back.
And I went into the middle of the highway and started waving my hands to flag down anybody - that could help me.
- Right.
And as soon as I did that, within a second, he threw the key right back to me.
Right.
I grabbed took the key, put it back in the bike.
I got my stuff on the back and I started pushing it down the highway and they were right behind me.
And is anybody witnessing, driving by, normal people? Well, that was my that was my saving grace - Okay.
- because somehow, in the midst of all that, somebody driving on the highway saw that occur and called 911.
And all of a sudden, they just turned around and sped off, squealed tires, every boom, back.
Okay.
And I said, "Awesome.
I'm going.
I'm gonna keep going.
" And seconds later, a Riverside County sheriff's deputy came speeding down the highway and pulled a U-ey and pulled me over.
The officer said, "We had a report that there was an altercation just down the road from here with a vehicle fitting your description.
What's happening?" And I didn't want to make any trouble.
I just wanted to escape, so I said, "Oh, nothing.
" - God! Marc! - "The My My friends were just trying to ask me a few questions.
" And why are you doing Why are lying? 'Cause I don't want to make any trouble.
I For what? You What do you mean? - For who? - Because I don't They just ran me off the road.
What Marc is not saying to you - Yeah.
Yeah.
- Realize he left me behind.
Right.
He knew that anything he did or said - That's true.
- Yeah.
was going to absolutely - Affect you.
- affect my future.
- Right.
- Yeah.
Marc: I made my way from there Well, from U-Haul, you called your dad, - who didn't know he was coming.
- From U-Haul, I called my dad.
And your dad's not a Scientologist.
My dad is not a Scientologist and I hadn't seen my dad in a while and I hadn't talked to him that regularly.
And I asked him if it would be okay - if I came to where he was.
- And what did he say? And he was like, "Of course you can.
I've been waiting for this day forever.
" And had they come to you and said, "So, Claire, how are you feeling about this?" I said it was all good.
I took off my weddings rings, and I hid them on my necklace, under my shirt.
So So, you gave them the idea, "He's a [bleep.]
lowlife.
He blew.
- He He's dead to me.
" - Yes.
- So that they would not think that you were gonna go.
- Yes.
So, they were like, "Oh, Claire's on board.
She thinks Marc's a piece of [bleep.]
" - Yes.
However - Right.
they still had me under security watch.
Security watch.
They'd assigned me a buddy 'cause I had - To watch you.
Right.
- Yeah.
Once he was gone, you you you you were done.
- I was.
In fact - Yeah.
the the day that he blew, that night, I packed a bag, - and I hid it under my bed.
- Right.
And it was just a matter of figuring out for me how to escape.
Marc: When someone leaves, they do what's called a blow drill.
- Mm-hmm.
- And an entire network of people are activated that all have specific functions.
Some people go and cull your files.
They find out, who are the parents, who are the aunts and uncles, who are the brothers and sisters, what are their phone numbers, what are their addresses, where do they live? - Mm-hmm.
- And they they scour all the neighborhoods.
They go to the Greyhound station.
- Check hotels.
- They go to the airport.
They go to hotels.
It's a military-style operation where this person needs to be recovered, and it's sort of like, the longer they're gone, the less chance we're gonna get them recovered.
Right.
So, they have to do it within a certain amount of time.
They do it, and people are literally dispatched.
- Right.
- In the meantime - Yeah.
- she contacts me through a an e-mail that no one knew I had Through my sister.
Yep.
says, "I have a new phone.
They switched out my phone.
Call me.
" And we formulate this plan.
And you have an eye appointment, right, - an eye-doctor appointment? - That's right.
- To get new contact lenses.
- And where And where is that? That's at the Walmart that was in Hemet.
Okay.
So, you can't go by yourself.
- No.
- They have a secure I had to have approval by five different people even just to go to the appointment.
And the whole time, I know they've activated the blow drill.
- Mm-hmm.
- They are out in force, figuring out, where am I going and how to intercept me.
So, we pull into Vegas.
It's dark.
And I get out.
I am gonna go into the station.
I didn't even make it in the door.
I had my hand opening the door, and, boom, there's two staff members right there in front of me.
He says, "Claire, we need to talk.
You're not doing this.
You're not going.
" I'm like, "I'm screwed.
They've caught me.
" So, you know, I went through my in my options.
- Right.
- And I just walked in the into the bus station, put my purse on the floor, sat down on it, and I hoped and prayed that they weren't gonna try and physically grab pull me out of there, which they didn't do, thankfully.
It was a populated enough area.
- So, you get on the bus.
- Yes.
- The first thing I do - Is call Marc.
And I tell him, "I'm on the bus.
" - And, Marc? - And I lose my mind.
- Right, right.
- "Oh, my God!" - Yeah.
Yeah.
- And so then that's it.
And so I literally I go back in the house, and I tell my dad, "She's on her way.
That's it.
" And so when you get off that bus, Claire - Oh.
- I mean, what was that like? We were We hugged, and we were - Cried? - "Oh, my God! We got " - Yes.
- It It was It was a mir It was a miracle.
It was a miracle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had been married 13 years at that point.
Wow.
But it was like you didn't even know each other.
- Right.
It was.
- And And she said, "I'm gonna make something or other.
" I said I was gonna make spaghetti bolognese.
She's gonna make spaghetti bolognese, and I and I literally looked at her and went, - "You know how to cook?" - Yeah.
We had We had been married for 13 years.
I'm like, "Yes, I do!" And she had never cooked a meal for me.
You were like You were like, "Oh, nice to meet you.
What else can you do?" Yeah.
"Wow.
" Hysterical.
Okay, so, you guys get through that.
Then what happens, like, with your families? 'Cause here's here's this great moment, you know - Yes.
- where you guys are, like, celebrating getting out of this abusive environment, this horrible time of your lives.
And then you have no family - No.
- except Mark's dad.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Well, and, actually, the day after I left - Yeah.
- my entire family - were called in - Mm-hmm.
- and shown our declare - Suppressive Person declares.
'cause we're now Suppressive Persons.
Which means that they can no longer talk to you.
That's right.
My mom, my stepdad, two sisters, a brother.
They all remain in Scientology and will not talk to us.
I've never spoken or seen my sister since the day I left.
- And she's a Scientologist.
- She's a Scientologist.
My mother is also still a Scientologist, and she has no contact with us.
- She told her Catholic family - Mm-hmm.
that if she ever spoke to Claire or I again, it would risk all mankind's future eternity.
Because it's gonna impede their eternity? When you think about it you know what I mean? Really think about that.
What about now? What about now? When our first son was born, in the hospital, I called her parents, who lived 15 minutes away.
I called them, and I said, "I just wanted you to know Claire's okay, the baby's okay.
" Click.
- Hung up on you.
- Hung up on me.
Her first grandchild was being born.
Leah: So, you guys have been out now for how long? - We left in January of 2005.
- Mm-hmm.
And we have three children now, all boys.
And we cherish every day as if it it's a miracle - Yeah.
- that we are able to have this wonderful life, and we don't take anything for granted.
Have you told the authorities, the FBI Oh, absolutely.
- of of these abuses - Yes.
- that took place? - In depth.
And And what's happened? We had filed a lawsuit individually and together - against them.
- Mm-hmm.
All these different things that we said did happen - Mm-hmm.
- they admitted to them, but that they were part of our religious right and part of their religious practice that those took place.
Religions in the United States under the First Amendment basically have free reign to do whatever they want to do, and your option is, leave the religion, go somewhere else, because the First Amendment says, effectively, the government or any branch of government, including courts, may not entangle themselves in making decisions about the ecclesiastical or the religious practices of any religion.
I would try to tell people that think, "Oh, I can save Scientology," like, "It's not worth saving.
" Just Just walk away.
You already have every minute you've spent in Scientology to regret.
Don't spend another minute that you need to regret.
Walk away, and you'll be happier, period.
It's one thing to tell a story, for me.
It's another thing to actually do something that's actually gonna help people.
What can we do? What can you do? What can you do? What can our lawyers do here? I don't know what those things are, but I have to find a way to to bring justice to some of these people who have been victimized and to prevent anything in the future from happening.
This cult or another cult, I don't want people to feel powerless because something seems more powerful than you.
Do something.
You can do something.
We're twin brothers.
We've spent every day of our lives together.
I characterized my state of mind at that time as being similar to the Hitler Youth.
He said, "There's been an accident, and your brother has died.
" Do you know the pain of this mother and this brother going, "We gave up a relationship for the Church of Scientology?" And now he's gone? Unconditional love does not exist in Scientology.
Right.
"The Church disputes many of the statements made by Marc and Claire Headley.
They filed two ill-founded lawsuits against the Church, seeking millions in damages.
The issue of Mrs.
Headley's pregnancy was part of the Headleys' failed lawsuits and was aimed at generating hostile, inflammatory p toward the Church to accompany their frivolous litigation.
" Leah: You see these two cars parked in the parking lot there? - Yeah.
- Yeah.
I just want to keep an eye on them when we pull out.
They seem to be together 'cause they're talking.
You see how they're talking to each other? Yep.
Yeah.
The guy on the right has got his left window open.
Yeah.
Look.
They're just totally staring at us.
You know what I mean? They're moving.
There he is.
Oh, there he is.
No.
Let him go.
Stop.
Let him go.
There you go.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
- No.
We're good.
Go ahead.
- Okay.
Watch this.
- Hey, buddy.
- How are you? Mike: I'm good.
Who you working for? - Yeah, right.
- Yeah, okay.
Piece of [bleep.]
Yeah, they're not TMZ.
Because TMZ and photographers they they follow you only to get the shot.
- Where's your camera? You don't want a shot? - Yeah.
You're from TMZ, and you don't want a shot? - Yeah.
- Ha.
Right.
By tracking airline reservations.
No.
But you can do it.
Well, it doesn't intimidate me.
It makes me want to retaliate, you know? 'Cause I'm not gonna [bleep.]
stand for it.
It's one thing if it's paparazzi because that's the business that I'm in.
But I'm not in the business of being stalked by [bleep.]
assholes I don't know.
I am the writer of the textbooks of Scientology.
The aim and goal is to put man in a-a mental condition, where he him can solve his own problems.
It offers you a sense of purpose in life.
Not only are you fixing yourself, but you're also helping mankind.
Without any Scientology organization, things are not going to change on this planet.
Woman: After years of slowly questioning Scientology Man: Leah Remini in her very public break with Scientology I didn't want to find out that what I had done my whole life was a lie.
[Doorbell rings.]
[Cheers and applause.]
Fight for your family.
Fight for your daughters, your sons.
Get them out of this thing.
You're not going to continue to lie to people and abuse people and take their money and their lives.
If I can stop one, then I'm going to do it.
Captioning Provided by A+E Networks [Cheers and applause.]
Good evening.
Five times a year, you are required to be at a Scientology event.
It's mandatory that you're there.
You're dressed up.
And they start out with this movie.
Man: When the history of this planet is finally told, it will be a tale of a determined few who rose up against overwhelming odds and stood firm for the rights of man.
The horses galloping.
Look at this shit.
Like, we're doing some man.
We're slaying the dragons.
Look at us.
Man: Our hallmark is unrelenting commitment and enduring compassion, extending a hand, however, wherever, and whenever.
Leah: And then these graphics come up "And we've saved that country and we took this drug company down and we won this and we saved thousands of lives here and hundreds of thousands here," and things like "millions.
" So, if you had any doubts, which I did, when you hear some of these statistics, you're like, "Oh, my God, we are changing the world, so all of our sacrifices, the money, the time, the missed vacations it's all worth it because, look, overall, look at what we're doing.
" I don't think that Leah realizes the level of deception that is involved in those events.
She doesn't know what went on behind the scenes.
She doesn't know how those events got put together and how those things are staged.
This morning we're gonna meet Marc Headley.
Marc was integral to the production of all of the events that were put on.
He produced a lot of those events.
He was intimately involved and oversaw all aspects of Scientology's propaganda machine.
Leah: Hi, honey.
- Good to see you.
- You too.
My name is Marc Headley, and I was a Scientologist for 25 years.
And I was in Golden Era Productions or "Gold" and I left in 2005.
When I was 15 years old, I signed a billion-year Sea Org contract.
I'm pretty sure I had no idea what I was doing when I was 15.
I wasn't in a position to carefully make the decision to sign a billion-year contract.
I was very into audio/visual stuff.
As a kid, I took apart TVs and radios and fixed them and knew how to solder and do all that sort of thing.
And I was told, "Well, there's a place at the international headquarters where that's all they do, is audio/visual stuff.
" So, for me, I thought, "Oh, that's a that's a no-brainer.
" The name of the Scientology facility was called Golden Era Productions.
It's a propaganda machine which produces all audio/visual products for Scientology.
I worked directly for David Miscavige, the head of Scientology.
When I first arrived at Golden Era productions, it was a huge property, over 500 acres, lush, green lawns, immaculate buildings, facilities, dining areas.
It was amazing.
But it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
It was very much a pressure cooker to get stuff done.
It was, "We don't have any time.
We don't have any money.
" In the 15 years that I was there, I probably pulled 500 all-nighters in that 15 years.
Multiple times a year, you'd just stay for a week.
You wouldn't even go home.
Now, you were what? What was your job in the Sea Org? For a good majority of the time, I was either - the pre-production director - Mm-hmm.
which we did all of the research and assembly, costumes, makeup, sets, and props, all the preparatory actions for the events.
And then for a good amount of time, I was either the assistant producer or the producer, - so - So, you did these events.
You You produced these events.
Full time.
Welcome to our planetary New Year's party and the night we rock into 2006.
[Cheers and applause.]
It was my job to produce these events to make it look like Scientology was expanding.
There's a Golden Era Productions casting office in the Celebrity Centre for the specific function of having auditions to get people to appear in Scientology promotional films or videos.
There were times when I doubted the Church and then I'd go to an event and I'd see these statistics.
And I remember thinking, like, "Wow, Leah, you're an Look at the amazing things that the Church is doing.
" I mean, I can tell you from being involved in the production of events and promotional videos for Scientology over a 15-year period, it's most likely bull.
Man: Across the network in totality, we are now talking a Narconon South Europe that has rehabilitated more than 10,000 from terminal addiction, moreover, a decline in usage - across the entire - consumption table, with heroin, hallucinogens, cocaine, and cannabis plunging an unheard-of 39%.
Because of these statistics, I was, like, kind of brought back in.
- Mm-hmm.
- It makes me believe.
- Yeah.
- And it makes me give up my money, and it makes me give up my time.
And I recently just found out that these statistics are not true.
Yeah.
A lot of times, the way what happens we would put together stories, possible stories - to be used for an event.
- Mm-hmm.
And then the scriptwriters would then take those stories, and then they would try to flush them out into something that could be talked about at the event.
- Let's say 20 - Like, give give me an example.
Let's say there's 25 people that are participating in Scientology activities in a certain town.
Then that would go to the scriptwriters, and then that would turn into "dozens.
" Okay.
Because "dozens" sounds more than 25.
- Right.
- But "dozens" is technically correct.
- Okay.
- It's It's two dozen.
- That's dozens.
- Okay.
That might go to David Miscavige, who approved every single speech, every single video script.
He would get the script, and then maybe he would say, "Dozens? - That's That's nothing.
" - Right.
"You know, we're we're talking we need to this we need to have the big picture.
What's a going where Scientology is going global.
We can't talk about dozens.
" So, maybe it turns into "scores" - or "teams" or - Mm-hmm.
even "hundreds.
" It It It It It Even though it's an outright lie.
It morphs into something bigger than it is.
Man: And that's how more than 14,000 inmates were suddenly reaching for the 21 precepts, with more than 5,000 completing the full extension course.
Now combine it with better than 1,000 guards also trained on precept application, and that's how recidivism has now plummeted to unparalleled lows, factually just 1%.
Why would our Church lie to us? - Correct.
- They They sit there and go, "Well, obviously this is true.
David Miscavige isn't gonna stand up there and lie to us.
" The best way I can represent it is, the events are not a documentary.
They are a commercial.
You know, you do think you're watching a documentary.
You don't think you're watching fiction.
You don't think you're watching a movie, made up, you know? You think you're you're being told the truth.
And any one of those people will tell you they believe it.
We all believed it.
So, it it's hard to hear.
Man: It's no less than 81 million LRH books and lectures this decade, far surpassing our first 50 years combined.
And if it all sounds stratospheric, you're right because, stack them end to end, and you're literally heading for deep space.
[Cheers and applause.]
Marc: There's a policy letter than L.
Ron Hubbard wrote.
It's one of the five tapes that you listen to when you join the Sea Org.
And it's a lecture that L.
Ron Hubbard gave to Sea Org members in the 1960s, which is, whoever controls the public relations controls the world.
If you are in the real world and you see Scientology, it doesn't look like it does in the events.
They're so obviously blatantly misrepresented - Right.
- that you could take any video in the past 10 years - Mm-hmm.
- you could give it to somebody and say, "I'm gonna pay you to fact-check this thing.
" - Okay.
- And they would obliterate it.
Woman: Or the inner-city Detroit school with D-minus grade averages.
But when an Applied Scholastics team turned up, those students had passing grades by the next week, while just eight weeks later, those students averaged A-plus.
This whole subject of these events is is really interesting because literally nobody has ever talked about this before.
- Mm-hmm.
- Really, nobody has ever exposed what really goes on in these events.
If Scientologists the in-the-bubble people saw this, this would have a greater impact on them than any other single thing that they would see.
It's promoting something to its parishioners to extract money, time, and your life.
Even on the Church's own website, they claim they are the fastest-growing religion in the world.
Why no one has taken them to task on that alone.
- Well - Well, even on that one, - they use their square footage - Mm-hmm.
- to back up that statement - Mm-hmm.
because in the last 10 years, they've gone from "X" hundred thousand square footage to so many millions of square footage.
Man: Combine it all with future Ideal Org square footage now spanning the diameter of the moon and a worldwide array of Org's missions and groups that's tripled in scope just since the new millennium, and, yes, that's the power and glory of source.
There's no more people that are involved in Scientology, but their buildings have have spread into further, uh - Yes, because they're - plots of land.
Because they have a billion dollars.
Yeah, and they can't they can't stockpile that money.
- Right.
- They need to buy real estate - so they can still - Right.
maintain their non not-for-profit status or whatever the - Right.
- legality, the loophole is that they need to buy all these buildings.
Right.
Anytime I questioned the Church, I was confronted with, "But look at all the good things we're doing.
Look.
We have new buildings going up all the time," which would imply that people were in them.
Marc: In the end of 2004, I actually had to visit some of these new organizations Ideal Organizations.
that had been set up as an Ideal Organization.
- Right.
- And they were ghost towns.
Maybe you were just there at the wrong time, Marc.
Well, that's the thing.
- I went to several organizations - Mm-hmm.
at all different times throughout a - a several-day period.
- Mm-hmm.
And they were all ghost towns, uniformly.
- There were no staff there.
- Mm-hmm.
There were no public there.
And the systems the audio/visual systems that I was there to make sure were working were not even being used.
- Right.
- There was nothing happening.
So, you, as a dedicated Sea Org member, who signed a billion-year contract is this the time you start going That's when the wheels start turning, where, "Wait a minute.
We're not getting anything done" Right.
"towards this goal of making a better civilization.
" For me, that was one of the final nails in the coffin, was seeing there's no result.
- Right.
- And And there And And these things that we are putting on the event whatever we thought they were and how we made we made and manipulated them, it's worse than that.
- Right.
- There's just nothing happening.
- Right.
- So, it's complete, utter lies.
Man: When you tally it all across every sector, there are now 12.
4 million people out there who will tell you they'll remember 2005 as the year they discovered LRH technology.
Do you believe that most Scientologists and I'm gonna include you, too, because even though you were both high-ranking Sea Org members, you were still a a Scientologist, right, believing that we might clear the planet.
That was the goal, yes.
"Clearing the planet" is a term that is used often in Scientology as the ultimate objective to eradicate all of these bad, reactive minds that everybody has that cause war, that cause insanity, that cause upset, et cetera, et cetera.
Because you believed, in your heart of hearts, that you were going to achieve clearing this planet this lifetime.
If you take those statistics, the ones they do release, and you do the math, you're you're talking about Scientology - achieving that goal of - When? In tens of thousands of years.
I believed we were doing these great things in the world.
To find out that, in fact, these are lies These people in the Shrine Auditorium clapping and standing up like, they believe they're doing these things.
That's why they're giving up their children.
That's why they're giving up their money.
That's why they're not going on vacations and living a normal, nice life because they're giving their money to you because they believe you.
And And we should believe a church when they tell us, "We're doing these things.
" "Fraud" is not the right word.
It's like you stole these people's faith.
This is not something fun.
- This is not a fun - This is exhausting.
- project.
- You're exactly right.
You know? It's like, if I'm not actually doing it, I'm thinking about it.
Do you think anybody's gonna now be in our lobby of the hotel? Man: Who's this guy? What's that guy doing? - With the phone, right? - Yep.
There's two guys with, like, their phones - See Do you see - Yeah, look at look at how they're, like, pointing this way.
They both have their phones pointed this way.
Mike: I got the guy with his phone.
- No.
The other one, too.
- Oh, I just - The other one had his phone - Oh, I could just see one.
You mean the guy right here? Oh, yeah.
- Both of them.
Yeah.
- Yeah, I got them.
We should ask these guys how long he's been sitting there.
- Yeah.
Let's ask.
- Yeah.
Excuse me.
Where's the security? Do you Are you aware of how long those guys have been sitting in the lobby? With the phone pointed at us? Can you ask if they're a guest? Man #2: They've been sitting there a while, actually.
I didn't even notice them until just now.
Can Can you ask if they're guests of the hotel? I can.
Leah: No, it's the other guy I'm worried about, - not that guy the other guy.
- It's both of them.
- I can't see the other guy.
- It's both of them.
Do you see the other guy behind him? - Yes.
Yes.
- Yeah.
They're both doing the same thing.
- Yeah.
- I say we hop out and Do you want to confront them, Rinder, or you want to let them be? Let's see what the guy says when he comes back.
What about the other one? Did he check the other guy? No.
He only did that one guy.
- Oh, he's out of here.
- Oh, he's leaving.
- Oh, they're both leaving.
- Oh, they're out of here.
They're both leaving? - Interesting.
- Those two Man: Oh, and they both have similar-looking Those two are P.
I.
's for sure.
Okay.
- Who's got a camera? - I do.
Why Why were you taking video of us? Man #3: I'm waiting for a friend, man.
What are you taking my picture for? - Why were you taking video of us? - Don't do that.
You're not a private investigator? I'm waiting for a friend.
Is that what you're gonna tell me? - I'm waiting for a friend.
- You're gonna tell me that you're not a private investigator or this jerk here was with you? - He's not a - I don't know who you are.
You're not a private investigator, either? Who are you people? Who are you? Who are you? You there? Leah: I got a picture of their license plate.
One man it turns out that he owns his own private-investigative company.
And another guy who claimed that he worked for TMZ was driving that man who owns the private-investigating company he was driving his wife's car.
So, just as they have access to information, so do I.
Man: With members from all four corners of Earth Look how lovely this is.
I want you to live here, Mike Rinder.
You could buy a house right here, and you could be next to your friends.
Mike: Yep.
Like, this would have been my dream as a kid to have friends and ride my bike and like that.
I don't I don't even think I had a bike.
I mean, if you're ever gonna come out of the sewer, this would be the place to come and destimulate.
- That's for sure.
- Yeah, for sure.
- Right? - Yep.
- I like this.
- Welcome.
- I love it here.
- Thank you.
- Hello! - This is Grayson.
- Hi! - That's Grayson.
- Grayson, that's Leah.
- Can you say, "Hi, Leah"? - Do you give hugs? - Yes.
He gives big hugs.
- Give her a hug.
- Let me see.
Let me see.
- Especially - Oh, my goodness! That's the best hug ever! My name is Claire Headley, and I was a Scientologist for 30 years.
I was a member of the Sea Organization.
I escaped in January 2005.
I joined the Sea Org when I was 16.
- Mm-hmm.
- And within three months, I was promoted to the Int Base - Mm-hmm.
- in Hemet.
And the International Base is where all the executives of Scientology are.
- That's right.
- The top the top tier.
I had been told, "Oh, it's an oasis of glory.
You get to exercise.
You get to meet celebrities.
" - So, you'd go up to Hemet.
- Yes.
And what is the Yeah.
And the second I arrived there, the illusion faded immediately.
You know, it's a heavily guarded property - Mm-hmm.
- and a lot of secrecy and a lot of control, specifically, "Okay, you're you're not allowed to make phone calls without permission and with someone listening.
If you want to send a letter to your family, you need to leave it open, and it needs to be read first.
" At this time, are you thinking, "I should leave"? You know, I Yes, I had that thought, - like, "Holy" - Yeah.
"How How am I gonna get out of here?" But I already knew, if I left, I would be declared a Suppressive Person and instantly cut off from my family.
- I would be given a freeloader bill.
- Mm.
- And at 16 - Right.
Right.
to consider a bill for $40,000 - Yeah.
- It's overwhelming.
You know, you have to make up the damage for having left the Sea Org, and you have to pay back the money for the courses that you took.
So, it's called a freeloader's debt.
So, you have to pay that off.
So, you were a senior executive in the Church.
Yes.
Being an RTC, which is where I worked for eight years What does that stand for? That's Religious Technology Center.
- And what is that? - It's essentially David Miscavige's personal organization.
- Okay.
- Those people are at his beck and call and and expected to do whatever he demands of them.
Marc: It's the police organization of Scientology.
So, let's go through when you started noticing the abuses.
I would say the first few things I-I started to observe was, "A," people would escape frequently.
So, you saw people escaping or you saw - I heard of people escaping.
- You heard.
Staff were required to attend courses and training every once in a while, and it would be, "Oh, Joe's not here.
He He escaped.
" That happened on a regular basis.
- Like almost weekly - Mm-hmm.
or every other week, you'd hear of someone escaping.
"Oh, what happened?" "Oh, he jumped the fence and he ran off and they're searching for him out " I mean, the the the base is in the middle of nowhere.
- Right.
- It's four miles to the nearest sign of humanity.
- Right.
- So, it's not easy to escape, either.
And, you know, I would they they would be, "Oh, the whole base is on security lockdown because Marcus jumped the fence.
" And they would have strobe lights so you could see, and they're, like, searching for him.
It was It was surreal, like Yeah.
Mike: Then you see them out doing the gardening - or shoveling - Yeah.
For years.
- or cleaning Dumpsters for years.
- Yes.
And those are the guys that got brought back.
Like, there was a friend of mine.
She was a really nice girl, and she tried to escape one night.
She made it not even 50 feet.
And she fell in a ditch and got stuck there.
It was in the middle of the night.
I mean, it sounds pitiful, - but it was the reality of - Right.
- She fell in a ditch.
- She fell in a ditch.
- They found her.
- She got stuck there.
They found her and brought her back.
- Right.
- The end.
You know, I had seen people tracked down to the ends of the Earth.
I mean, one one RTC staff member escaped to South Africa and was tracked down and brought back.
In the Sea Org, you're not allowed to have sex with a boyfriend or a girlfriend.
- You have to get married.
- That's right.
So, you were married at what age? I was 17.
Marc was 19.
When I joined the Sea Organization, I knew that their policy was no kids allowed.
If a woman got pregnant, she would instantly be scheduled to go and get an abortion.
If she refused in any manner, she would be segregated, not allowed to speak with her husband, put under security watch, put on heavy manual labor, and interrogated for for her crimes as to why she wanted to leave because the reality was That getting pregnant meant you wanted to leave.
- That's exactly right.
Yes.
- Right, right.
At one point, I made a list of all the people I absolutely knew had had abortions.
And it was more than 50 women.
Some of them had had up to six.
If you're in the Sea Organization and you got pregnant, you were expected to have an abortion.
The Church claims that pressuring women to have an abortion has either never happened or doesn't happen anymore.
The truth of the matter is, it is a mortal sin to get pregnant as a Sea Org member because that means you will have to leave the Sea Organization and thereby "break" your billion-year contract.
I absolutely swore that I would never have an abortion.
I wanted kids.
Next thing I know, I missed a period, so I have to go see the medical officer.
She had me do the test with her there, and sure enough, it was positive.
And she said, "Well, you're gonna need to get an abortion.
" Basically, the sentiment there is, "Get over it.
Get back to work.
" And meanwhile, inside, I'm dying.
Of course.
Yeah.
- You know, it's just - I know.
worst fear come true, you know? - Some wounds you can't heal.
- Yep.
Of course, yes, I can go, "Well, now I have three beautiful children who are are my life.
" But it doesn't make it easier to deal with it.
It doesn't make it any easier ever.
And it doesn't make me feel better about not being strong enough to tell them to go [bleep.]
themselves.
So I didn't know what was really going on until we started this project.
You see how damaging it is for people to not to be in something like this and not be able to have children, to not have a real relationship, to not be enjoying their lives, really.
So, what ultimately did it for you guys? - To leave? - Yeah.
What did it for me was Basically, what I had originally thought I was gonna be doing in terms of helping people, I knew I wasn't doing that.
I knew I wasn't helping people.
In the mid-1990s, I was doing a project for David Miscavige directly.
And he was walking through an area that I was in charge of, and I made a snide comment sort of under my breath in response to something that he had said.
And he he literally just like a powder keg, he went off.
And he just started punching me and slugging me and pushed me up against a desk unit.
And I wore glasses at the time and they were all jacked up and bent and the lenses fell out.
And I didn't fall down, though.
I got kind of got back up and, you know, straightened myself out.
And then I looked at him like, "Okay, it's on.
" And as soon as I looked at him and did that, he these guys just took me out of the building, just manhandled me, escorted me right out of the building.
And as we were going out, he said, "Did you see that? That guy was gonna hit me back.
" And And again under my breath I was like, "You're [bleep.]
You're damn right I was.
" At that point, I sort of realized, "Okay, the pope of Scientology just beat the shit out of me.
" Like, I don't know how you come back from that.
Like, for me, that was that was it.
"There's not a lot here keeping me here, including my wife, including all the abuse.
All this stuff is is This is not a good reason to stay here.
" Our relationship was completely strained.
I never see her.
I'm never with her.
She doesn't even come home at night.
She's working.
Married Sea Org members are very often on different schedules altogether.
We were on different meal schedules, so I didn't get to eat with him, you know, even for our 30 minutes that we were assigned to eat dinner.
Definitely a nontraditional relationship, you know, married-couple setting.
Marc: The morning that I escaped, I called her at 4:00 in the morning, and I said, "Are you coming home?" - She was still working.
- Yeah.
And she said, "I'm gonna try and come home and take a shower at least, and I'll talk to you then.
" 'Cause I wanted to tell her, "Uh, we're we're getting out of here.
" Right, but she didn't know when you called her.
No.
And I couldn't tell her on the phone, "Oh, yeah, by the way, I'm gonna escape.
" - Right.
- "So, when you get home, I'm gonna have all your stuff packed.
" - Right.
Right.
- You can't do that.
And she had ratted me out several times before when I did something, and it was, like, on the downlow.
- Yeah.
- And then when she got wind of it, - it was no longer on the downlow.
- Right.
So, it it could go any way, but I think that I would have gone, but, you know I think she would have And I think she would have ratted me out - Right.
- 'cause she had a history of ratting me out.
And I never ratted her out ever.
- Right.
- But she never came home.
- She never came home that night.
- Mm-hmm.
So, the morning came, and I said, "I am out of here.
" I had a motorcycle that had been parked at my house.
How come you were allowed to have that? Because she was in Religious Technology Center priorly and we still lived with our Religious Technology Center staff members.
That was outside the gates.
That was right outside the gates of the property.
- So there was no security? - In houses.
- There There were - There were cameras on the - There was security.
- Uh-huh.
Like, there was a camera on the roof of our house - Yeah.
- that showed the road.
- Yeah.
- They They monitored our movement very closely.
Okay.
When I drove out on my motorcycle with a suitcase on the back of my motorcycle and a few hundred bucks in my pocket, they were right behind me.
[Truck honking.]
They yelled out at me on the highway, "Pull over.
Pull over.
Turn around.
Come back.
Come back.
" They knew I was escaping.
[Honking continues.]
They continually yelled, "Come back, come back," and I didn't.
And they just took their security truck, and they just ran me right off the road.
When that happened, then I switched into, you know, fight-or-flight mode, - like, "What the Ohh.
" - Right.
The security guard took the key out of the bike.
So that you couldn't get back on it.
So that I couldn't get back on it - and start it up and go.
- Okay.
And he said, "Get into this truck.
- We're going.
" - Back.
And I went into the middle of the highway and started waving my hands to flag down anybody - that could help me.
- Right.
And as soon as I did that, within a second, he threw the key right back to me.
Right.
I grabbed took the key, put it back in the bike.
I got my stuff on the back and I started pushing it down the highway and they were right behind me.
And is anybody witnessing, driving by, normal people? Well, that was my that was my saving grace - Okay.
- because somehow, in the midst of all that, somebody driving on the highway saw that occur and called 911.
And all of a sudden, they just turned around and sped off, squealed tires, every boom, back.
Okay.
And I said, "Awesome.
I'm going.
I'm gonna keep going.
" And seconds later, a Riverside County sheriff's deputy came speeding down the highway and pulled a U-ey and pulled me over.
The officer said, "We had a report that there was an altercation just down the road from here with a vehicle fitting your description.
What's happening?" And I didn't want to make any trouble.
I just wanted to escape, so I said, "Oh, nothing.
" - God! Marc! - "The My My friends were just trying to ask me a few questions.
" And why are you doing Why are lying? 'Cause I don't want to make any trouble.
I For what? You What do you mean? - For who? - Because I don't They just ran me off the road.
What Marc is not saying to you - Yeah.
Yeah.
- Realize he left me behind.
Right.
He knew that anything he did or said - That's true.
- Yeah.
was going to absolutely - Affect you.
- affect my future.
- Right.
- Yeah.
Marc: I made my way from there Well, from U-Haul, you called your dad, - who didn't know he was coming.
- From U-Haul, I called my dad.
And your dad's not a Scientologist.
My dad is not a Scientologist and I hadn't seen my dad in a while and I hadn't talked to him that regularly.
And I asked him if it would be okay - if I came to where he was.
- And what did he say? And he was like, "Of course you can.
I've been waiting for this day forever.
" And had they come to you and said, "So, Claire, how are you feeling about this?" I said it was all good.
I took off my weddings rings, and I hid them on my necklace, under my shirt.
So So, you gave them the idea, "He's a [bleep.]
lowlife.
He blew.
- He He's dead to me.
" - Yes.
- So that they would not think that you were gonna go.
- Yes.
So, they were like, "Oh, Claire's on board.
She thinks Marc's a piece of [bleep.]
" - Yes.
However - Right.
they still had me under security watch.
Security watch.
They'd assigned me a buddy 'cause I had - To watch you.
Right.
- Yeah.
Once he was gone, you you you you were done.
- I was.
In fact - Yeah.
the the day that he blew, that night, I packed a bag, - and I hid it under my bed.
- Right.
And it was just a matter of figuring out for me how to escape.
Marc: When someone leaves, they do what's called a blow drill.
- Mm-hmm.
- And an entire network of people are activated that all have specific functions.
Some people go and cull your files.
They find out, who are the parents, who are the aunts and uncles, who are the brothers and sisters, what are their phone numbers, what are their addresses, where do they live? - Mm-hmm.
- And they they scour all the neighborhoods.
They go to the Greyhound station.
- Check hotels.
- They go to the airport.
They go to hotels.
It's a military-style operation where this person needs to be recovered, and it's sort of like, the longer they're gone, the less chance we're gonna get them recovered.
Right.
So, they have to do it within a certain amount of time.
They do it, and people are literally dispatched.
- Right.
- In the meantime - Yeah.
- she contacts me through a an e-mail that no one knew I had Through my sister.
Yep.
says, "I have a new phone.
They switched out my phone.
Call me.
" And we formulate this plan.
And you have an eye appointment, right, - an eye-doctor appointment? - That's right.
- To get new contact lenses.
- And where And where is that? That's at the Walmart that was in Hemet.
Okay.
So, you can't go by yourself.
- No.
- They have a secure I had to have approval by five different people even just to go to the appointment.
And the whole time, I know they've activated the blow drill.
- Mm-hmm.
- They are out in force, figuring out, where am I going and how to intercept me.
So, we pull into Vegas.
It's dark.
And I get out.
I am gonna go into the station.
I didn't even make it in the door.
I had my hand opening the door, and, boom, there's two staff members right there in front of me.
He says, "Claire, we need to talk.
You're not doing this.
You're not going.
" I'm like, "I'm screwed.
They've caught me.
" So, you know, I went through my in my options.
- Right.
- And I just walked in the into the bus station, put my purse on the floor, sat down on it, and I hoped and prayed that they weren't gonna try and physically grab pull me out of there, which they didn't do, thankfully.
It was a populated enough area.
- So, you get on the bus.
- Yes.
- The first thing I do - Is call Marc.
And I tell him, "I'm on the bus.
" - And, Marc? - And I lose my mind.
- Right, right.
- "Oh, my God!" - Yeah.
Yeah.
- And so then that's it.
And so I literally I go back in the house, and I tell my dad, "She's on her way.
That's it.
" And so when you get off that bus, Claire - Oh.
- I mean, what was that like? We were We hugged, and we were - Cried? - "Oh, my God! We got " - Yes.
- It It was It was a mir It was a miracle.
It was a miracle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had been married 13 years at that point.
Wow.
But it was like you didn't even know each other.
- Right.
It was.
- And And she said, "I'm gonna make something or other.
" I said I was gonna make spaghetti bolognese.
She's gonna make spaghetti bolognese, and I and I literally looked at her and went, - "You know how to cook?" - Yeah.
We had We had been married for 13 years.
I'm like, "Yes, I do!" And she had never cooked a meal for me.
You were like You were like, "Oh, nice to meet you.
What else can you do?" Yeah.
"Wow.
" Hysterical.
Okay, so, you guys get through that.
Then what happens, like, with your families? 'Cause here's here's this great moment, you know - Yes.
- where you guys are, like, celebrating getting out of this abusive environment, this horrible time of your lives.
And then you have no family - No.
- except Mark's dad.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Well, and, actually, the day after I left - Yeah.
- my entire family - were called in - Mm-hmm.
- and shown our declare - Suppressive Person declares.
'cause we're now Suppressive Persons.
Which means that they can no longer talk to you.
That's right.
My mom, my stepdad, two sisters, a brother.
They all remain in Scientology and will not talk to us.
I've never spoken or seen my sister since the day I left.
- And she's a Scientologist.
- She's a Scientologist.
My mother is also still a Scientologist, and she has no contact with us.
- She told her Catholic family - Mm-hmm.
that if she ever spoke to Claire or I again, it would risk all mankind's future eternity.
Because it's gonna impede their eternity? When you think about it you know what I mean? Really think about that.
What about now? What about now? When our first son was born, in the hospital, I called her parents, who lived 15 minutes away.
I called them, and I said, "I just wanted you to know Claire's okay, the baby's okay.
" Click.
- Hung up on you.
- Hung up on me.
Her first grandchild was being born.
Leah: So, you guys have been out now for how long? - We left in January of 2005.
- Mm-hmm.
And we have three children now, all boys.
And we cherish every day as if it it's a miracle - Yeah.
- that we are able to have this wonderful life, and we don't take anything for granted.
Have you told the authorities, the FBI Oh, absolutely.
- of of these abuses - Yes.
- that took place? - In depth.
And And what's happened? We had filed a lawsuit individually and together - against them.
- Mm-hmm.
All these different things that we said did happen - Mm-hmm.
- they admitted to them, but that they were part of our religious right and part of their religious practice that those took place.
Religions in the United States under the First Amendment basically have free reign to do whatever they want to do, and your option is, leave the religion, go somewhere else, because the First Amendment says, effectively, the government or any branch of government, including courts, may not entangle themselves in making decisions about the ecclesiastical or the religious practices of any religion.
I would try to tell people that think, "Oh, I can save Scientology," like, "It's not worth saving.
" Just Just walk away.
You already have every minute you've spent in Scientology to regret.
Don't spend another minute that you need to regret.
Walk away, and you'll be happier, period.
It's one thing to tell a story, for me.
It's another thing to actually do something that's actually gonna help people.
What can we do? What can you do? What can you do? What can our lawyers do here? I don't know what those things are, but I have to find a way to to bring justice to some of these people who have been victimized and to prevent anything in the future from happening.
This cult or another cult, I don't want people to feel powerless because something seems more powerful than you.
Do something.
You can do something.
We're twin brothers.
We've spent every day of our lives together.
I characterized my state of mind at that time as being similar to the Hitler Youth.
He said, "There's been an accident, and your brother has died.
" Do you know the pain of this mother and this brother going, "We gave up a relationship for the Church of Scientology?" And now he's gone? Unconditional love does not exist in Scientology.
Right.