Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s02e13 Episode Script
The Life & Lies of L. Ron Hubbard
Is that right? Yes.
Well, you all right, you do it.
Go ahead.
That when LRH discarded the body that had served his being well for almost 75 years in this lifetime.
Still rolling, let's settle.
We're rolling and speeding.
Okay, quiet, please.
Tonight we're gonna be discussing the life of L.
Ron Hubbard.
You know, when we talk about Scientology, and the mystery of L.
Ron Hubbard sort of lurks in the background.
Who was this guy? How did he come to do what he did? And I hope that we can give some perspective on him as a person and what he was doing and how he went about doing it.
I do remember as a child seeing this man as some form of deity.
And I was young, but I was already very early on indoctrinated to believe that this man had all the answers.
- Did you have a similar - Oh, me too.
My goal when I was growing up was to join the Sea Organization as soon as I could and go work with L.
Ron Hubbard.
Right.
That was like the ultimate objective that I could attain in life was to be right with him, working with him to save the planet.
You get the idea that here is the source of all the answers to everything.
Right, and that's what your parents are teaching you.
- Absolutely.
- Your parents are saying, "Hey, little Mike, little Leah, "and to all Scientology children, "this man is so important to me "and should be very important to you "because that's why we're giving up our lives because this man is saving mankind".
Scientology is totally a workable science.
It is only workable.
We're interested in what produces results, and if you know certain things and you apply them and that then increases a man's IQ, increases his ability to handle the world around him.
Why, he naturally then is able to to do better and to do more, to make more money, to be more to be happier in his environment and so forth.
He had the ability to convince people that he knew what was doing and, "If you just listen to me, this is where I will take you".
- Right.
- He's like the Pied Piper.
"I will take you here if you just listen to what I'm saying because I have solved the problems of how to get there".
But you have to give it to the man.
People flocked to him, dedicated their lives to him.
People currently are giving up their lives, their money, their families - for this man.
- Right.
And the promises that this man made.
In his book "Dianetics," it says that it cures things.
Immortality and spiritual freedom and breaking the cycle of life and death, these are all things that are described as "this is what Scientology will accomplish for you".
Thank you.
Over the past six years, LRH has indeed been intensively researching the upper bands OT.
Approximately two weeks ago, he completed all of his research as he had set out to do.
He's now moved on to his next level of OT research.
This level is in fact done completely exterior from the body.
At this level of OT, the body is nothing more than an impediment and encumbrance to any further gain as an OT.
Thus Thus at 2000 hours Friday, the 24th of January A.
D.
36, L.
Ron Hubbard discarded the body he had used in this lifetime for 74 years, ten months, and 11 days.
L.
Ron Hubbard has decided to leave his body - Discard his body.
- Discarded his body.
What would be the risk of being honest? If L.
Ron Hubbard hadn't been able to eat the carrot, then no Scientologist would be able to attain the carrot that is being dangled in front of them of immortality, et cetera, et cetera.
And the lawyer for Scientology comes out, and I do remember very clearly this man saying, you know, he wasn't sick.
They made the point to say that he made a decision to leave his body because the work that he needed to do needed to be outside of his body.
By the decision to continue his work outside the confines of his body and by the decision to do it now, it is not surprising.
The body of L.
Ron Hubbard was sound and strong and fully capable of serving this mighty thetan for many years had that suited his purposes.
The lawyer said he was of sound mind and body.
- Exactly.
- And what's the truth? He was not at all in good shape when he finally died.
He had pancreatitis and various other ailments and illnesses for some period of time.
This was a briefing to keep Scientologists in, to not give up and say, "Well, screw it.
"If this man died, if he's just an average human "who died of a stroke and sickness "then everything the first book that we read, "which is 'Dianetics,' - is a lie".
- Right.
Starting with the fact that he died not having accomplished what he had said so often, "I have found the path to achieve this "and this is scientific fact and it's case histories prove, et cetera, et cetera".
It's sort of a big overview that sets the stage for "how did he get to that".
And so you have to look at this man and go, "He was a genius in certain aspects and quite diabolical in another".
And we're gonna meet Hana Whitfield, who worked very closely with L.
Ron Hubbard and was one of the first Sea Org members in the history of the Sea Org.
So we'll be talking to her.
And we're also going to be talking to Russell Miller, the biographer who wrote the definitive biography on L.
Ron Hubbard and who researched his life beyond what anybody else has ever done.
Now, Hana, how did you come to Scientology? It was a long route through an abusive family.
So, I was searching.
Searching for the answers.
I was searching for the answers.
I had become a registered nurse in Johannesburg, graduated, and I met a medical student who said, "You might be interested in this book".
And he handed me "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health".
And what was fascinating to you about that? When I saw the title, "Modern Science of Mental Health," I went, "Ding.
"If there is such a thing "as a modern science of mental health, I have to find out".
- Right.
- I mean, if he took the time to write a book, do all this research, and find out all this about the mind, he must know what he's talking about.
- Right.
- When I got "Dianetics" and walked into the local housie and saw a picture of Hubbard on the wall, that convinced me that Hubbard was the returned messiah.
So you went immediately full on into Scientology? Absolutely.
I read the book all the way through, and even though I thought some parts were totally ridiculous, there was so much else in the book that captivated me.
And what did you think of it? Did you have a similar fascination? No, no, I'm afraid it didn't.
I was completely dumbfounded that anybody could take it seriously.
I mean, I thought the whole thing was a joke, to be honest.
I mean, forgive me Hana for saying this, but you approach from very different perspectives.
- Sure.
- You know, I was a journalist and working on the biography of Hubbard.
When I was researching the book, I became aware very quickly, actually, that I had to check everything.
I couldn't take a single thing at face value.
He was incapable of telling the truth about himself.
Everything about him was a lie.
Hubbard was constantly embellishing his life.
I couldn't take a single thing at face value.
I had to check everything.
He said he was top sergeant in the Marines.
He said he was a doctor.
He said he was a nuclear physicist.
None of it was true.
So what was he? Hubbard was a ordinary kid, nice, young man.
The family grew up in a modest little house in Helena.
He claimed he was born on his grandfather's ranch which covered a quarter of the state of Montana.
He wasn't.
He didn't.
He was a Navy brat, and so he followed his family around as his father was posted from one place to another.
And the father was eventually sent to Guam.
He said that he had toured the Orient as a young man, learning the secrets of life from wise men and gurus.
He didn't.
He was on a ten-day tour of China with wives and families from Guam, where his father was stationed.
From high school he graduated from high school, then went to George Washington University.
He said he graduated as a nuclear physicist.
He didn't.
He really was a pretty poor student.
Never graduated from George Washington University.
I remember talking to one woman, and she kept referring to Dr.
Hubbard.
So I corrected her and I said, "Well, no, he's not a doctor.
His background is eng as an engineering".
Of course, I was wrong about that.
He had no background in engineering.
He had flunked out of George Washington University after just in his second year.
Hubbard really drifted after dropping out of University.
He was unsure of what to do with his life, and I think he found himself when he started writing science fiction.
That was it was a moment when science fiction was becoming extremely popular.
He had a great imagination.
He had lots of ideas and great flair.
You know, these interplanetary, galactic wars and all the pre-"Star Wars" stuff, really.
You know, he was L.
Ron Hubbard the well-known science fiction writer.
Come the war, he enlisted in the United States Navy.
And the this is where Hubbard's story and the real story of L.
Ron Hubbard's activities diverges in an extraordinary way.
I mean, there is no similarity between the two.
The story was that Hubbard was constantly in combat.
He was wounded many times.
He was got up to all kinds of adventures behind the lines.
The reality was that he was a disaster as an officer.
I got his record from the Freedom of Information Act.
The record gives chapter and verse on every single moment of his naval career in great, great detail.
His reports were, "This officer is unsuitable for command right now".
He was admonished for this and that and the other.
By 1944, the cumulative injuries he suffered in combat had taken their toll.
Lame from a Nazi torpedo and partially blind from the flash of a ship's gun, he was transferred to Oak Knoll Naval Hospital at war's end.
He said he'd been nearly blinded 'cause he there's some artillery fire had gone off right next to his face and he could hardly see.
None of it was true.
And another one, he was injured in the leg and subsequently he obviously kept little bits of shrapnel in his pocket and he'd sort of walk out of a room and drop a bit and explain, "Oh, yeah, shrapnel keeps working its way out.
I've been hit so many times".
"Shrapnel keeps working its way out of my body".
I forgot about that.
But it was a lie.
- He writes about this.
- Yes.
He writes about being in fantastic battles of which he was greatly injured.
- Oh, yeah.
- And he talks - about curing himself.
- Yes.
By 1948, through my own processing and use of the principles I had isolated up to that time, was able to pass a 100% combat physical, which was very mysterious to the government how I'd suddenly become completely physically well from being blind and lame.
"Dianetics" had been written in 1950.
He gave himself a prestige and credit - Yes.
- Where it wasn't due in order to promote "Dianetics".
"Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health," was released to the world on May 9, 1950.
It was an immediate bestseller and ignited a grass-roots movement that spawned some 750 Dianetics groups almost overnight.
You know, he monopolized on the time, you know, where people were looking for alternatives, where people wanted to be in charge of their own mental health, to not to be told, you know, had the appearance that it was a self-help proposition.
It was not any of those things, but it was a movement of the time.
Right, and I think that also very cleverly the concepts of "Dianetics" are that you may react badly to people, you may be sick, you may be ill, whatever.
You are not bad.
This thing is bad.
This reactive mind that "Dianetics" set up - that you have.
- Yes.
And only I can tell you how to eradicate that thing.
- Yeah.
- It is the hawk that makes "Dianetics" so appealing to so many people.
This is a very, very important point in the life of L.
Ron Hubbard because the fundamental of "Dianetics" is based on the fact that he cured himself.
I can say flatly that 99% of what my father wrote about his own life and what he had done is false.
Was he really in the war and shot up and healed himself with his own mind and? Uh, he was in the Navy during World War II, but he was never wounded or blinded.
He did use this repeatedly to justify how he had come to discover - Dianetics.
- And Scientology.
If Hubbard really didn't suffer these injuries in the war and didn't cure himself, then the foundation of "Dianetics" and Scientology falls to pieces.
So the thing that I have issue with is if that is untrue, what he claims about himself, what he says in these books that is everything that Scientology is based on is what L.
Ron Hubbard says about himself But, Leah, it's vitally important for the continuation of Scientology for Hubbard to be seen as this extraordinary individual.
- Yes, of course.
- But but he might have been extraordinary.
I don't care if people thinks he's extraordinary.
He could be extraordinary.
- He could be - A genius.
A genius.
I don't care.
What I care about is that he has based a religion that costs people a half $1 million and their lives Oh, yeah.
- Based on lies.
- Yes.
"Dianetics," when it first boomed in the United States after 1950, and then it went into a decline.
People were not achieving what had been promised.
Hubbard had left a trail of chaos behind him.
You know, everything he did turned bad in a way.
I mean, the first Dianetics organizations, you know, they ran out of money and there were all kinds of lawsuits and litigation.
He said several times that the way to make money - was to start a religion.
- Right.
He's on the record of saying that on three separate occasions - to three different people.
- Yes.
And Hubbard loved money.
You know, he was motivated by money.
This is a book that he titled "Scientology 8-80," and it it's introduced with I think the most audacious and extraordinary introduction of any book ever, really.
And it goes like this: "With this book, the ability to make one's body old or young at will" "The ability to heal the ill without physical contact.
"The ability to cure the insane and incapacitated "is set forth for the physician, the layman, the mathematician, and the physicist".
Please.
I mean, this is There's nothing more to be done.
- No, quite.
- There's nothing.
Drop the mic.
Did you consider all this a religion? - No.
- Do you now? No, because it's a business.
It always has been.
I was one of the incorporators of the original church organizations, and we incorporated just because the AMA And the IRS were giving him a lot of problems in the early '50s.
"Dianetics" moved into Scientology, and there's a whole story about that.
And Scientology then continued to grow and sort of expand around the world until Hubbard installed himself in England at Saint Hill in 1959 and became the magnet for Scientologists around the world to come and study with Hubbard.
He's making a huge amount of money, which seemed to have disappeared.
Money rolled in.
The money rolled out very, very quickly indeed.
He was the kind of character that you would expect that the FBI and the CIA would take a bit of attention, and indeed the MI6 was also looking at his activities.
And then by this time, he started the Sea Orgs simply because life was getting too hot for him in every country he went to.
You know, he was getting into constant difficulties with the authorities.
And he made a very simple decision.
He said, "Well, the surface of the planet is "most of it's water.
So if I go on the sea, then they can't chase me".
Hubbard decided there was only one answer.
He would take to the high seas.
With his loyal band of disciples, he would move himself and his empire outside any governments' jurisdiction.
What I don't understand is how L.
Ron Hubbard set Scientology, not just the Sea Org, but Scientology up as a military operation.
The uniforms resemble the military.
And every policy is written as a as a Flag order, and there are high crimes.
And there's a master-at-arms.
- That's the end result.
- Of? It started as just Scientology.
Okay.
Then Hubbard developed the Sea Organization.
And at a certain point, the Sea Organization just gradually took over all of Scientology.
I suppose by making it into a quasi-military organization, which is an authoritarian structure - Yes.
- It's easier to control, I guess.
He saw himself as an absolute dictator who absolutely dictated everything that you are to think, everything that you are to do, and every action that you are to take in your life.
L.
Ron Hubbard, like every subject, is an authoritarian on and has the tools to handle, you know, anyone's marriage.
He's the one to go to on how to raise children.
Now they say we're breaking up marriages.
All right, that's a lie.
As a matter of fact, they're saying that at the moment when you've got this book, which was just about to go on the press is "How To Save Your Marriage" because it contains thousands of successful marriages.
I would like to take a larger view of Hubbard's family.
He had not just three wives, but he had two children with his first wife.
His eldest, L.
Ron Hubbard Jr.
- Right.
- He was called Nibs, and then Katie.
Hubbard went off.
He abandoned them, actually, and went off to start Dianetics, and then subsequently Nibs went back to his father and became a part of his life again.
But Polly and Katie lived their lives and have never been a part of anything in Sci Most Scientologist don't even know that they - Exist.
- Ever existed.
- I didn't.
- I know.
Polly was just a nice girl who met Hubbard and fell in love with him and had kid and but and maybe their marriage would have continued, except Hubbard got involved with Jack Parsons in Pasadena.
Hubbard was dabbling in black magic.
- Yes.
- And Satanic rituals.
And trying to invoke, you know, spirits and all that stuff.
Hubbard then immediately fell for Sara, who is actually Jack Parsons's lover.
Parsons didn't believe in marriage, but he had this beautiful young lady living there who was his girlfriend.
Hubbard immediately glommed onto her and eventually the place just sort of tore apart because of the big romance.
Polly was then set to one side.
Then Sara was married.
He had a daughter with Sara, Alexis.
There were no limits for Hubbard.
Hubbard disregarded all kinds of conventions.
So, Hubbard married his second wife without divorcing his first wife.
Then denounced the second wife and said, you know, she never existed.
How many times have you been married? I've been married twice, and I'm very happily married just now.
I have a lovely wife and I have four children.
My first wife is dead.
What happened to your second wife? I never had a second wife.
- Okay, who's next? - Mary Sue Hubbard.
They had four children.
There was Diana, the oldest, the beautiful one with the long red hair.
And Suzette.
She was more the tomboy.
And then there was Quentin.
And then little Arthur.
They were all on the big ship.
"The Royal Scotsman," which became the "Apollo".
Were they being raised by L.
Ron Hubbard and Mary Sue? No one was taking care of the children.
They were absorbed into the organization, and their superiors were taking care of them.
That was who was taking care of them.
They grew up totally in the culture of the Sea Organization.
There was no family culture.
There was no none of that.
Now, the kids were just on post, right? They were just Sea Org members.
They were treated the same as every other crew member assigned dirty jobs, hard jobs, menial tasks, punishments, just the same.
- They didn't go to school.
- Oh.
They weren't schooled onboard the ship.
There was no schooling, which I found deplorable.
But he believed young children were adults in small bodies, and they had to be treated like adults.
Yeah, there's a Flag order that is written that says that, you know, every Sea Org member, no matter their age, child or adult, is to be treated the same as A Suppressive Child is a Suppressive Child And is to be treated accordingly.
Hubbard was distant from his children on the ship.
Except for Diana, his oldest girl.
She was his favorite.
They had a close relationship, dad and daughter.
The other children, not so much that I could see.
Quentin gave me a few auditing sessions, and I loved him dearly.
Sweet, sweet kid.
Never close to his father.
Never in his father's research room, never Quentin lived his own life onboard, and from quite early on, I got the distinct impression that Hubbard wasn't interested in his children.
Yeah.
Russell, something that you wrote in your book, you said that maybe Quentin was homosexual.
Why would you say that? The people that I interviewed who just generally accepted that he was probably homosexual, but he couldn't be mentioned to L.
Ron because Well, that's really the point.
Scientology believes that homosexuality is one of the lowest conditions that you can be in.
L.
Ron Hubbard categorized these people as the covert hostility, that they should all be taken to an island and eradicated - from the rest of decent - Yes.
- Yes.
- Human beings.
So, what your saying is, from the interviews that you did, he was possibly dealing with his sexuality but couldn't communicate that certainly - being a Scientologist - Not to his father.
But not to his father, who wrote the policies that these people should be taken off - Yeah.
- And eradicated.
When Quentin killed himself by attaching a pipe to the exhaust of his car and running it through the window, Hubbard's reaction was one of fury that Quentin should do this.
Not grief or horror that his son should do this, but of fury that it would attract attention, negative attention to what he was doing.
- I mean - With words, something to the effect of, "Oh, my God, he's done it to me again".
Even Mary Sue, you know, even she in the end was set to one side when Operation Snow White came into being.
Only Hubbard, I think in all the world, could of decided that the way to deal with the bad information that was lodged in government files was to simply steal it and destroy it.
You know, that to him was the obvious explanation.
- It was simple.
- You know, a simple thing - to do.
- Very simple.
So, set this thing in motion with Mary Sue nominally in charge and the loyal Scientologist infiltrating government offices on a regular basis, burglaring offices at night, stealing hundreds and hundreds of documents, putting them to one side, and obviously in the end they're gonna get caught, and they did.
And it was Mary Sue that took the wrap.
Hubbard, you know, made it quite clear that we wasn't going to get involved in or any way, shape, or form as responsible for this outrageous act, and so Mary Sue went to prison.
And then she was, you know, given a house - Yes.
- In Los Angeles, where she had never had contact with L.
Ron Hubbard again.
And she was monitored to the last day of her life by people who were installed in her household - Yes.
- By David Miscavige, who reported to him every day on her activity.
Yes.
When any of those children or wives fell into disfavor, they literally got written out of history.
And after Mary Sue Hubbard took the fall, she suddenly is eradicated from the world of Scientology.
Yeah, there's like pictures of L.
Ron Hubbard and her.
Then all of the sudden there's a new picture of L.
Ron Hubbard - and he's just there by himself.
- Yes.
And there was a very famous one of him and Sara, who was his second wife, sitting on the back of a yacht.
- Right, yes.
- That has now become one of the iconic L.
Ron Hubbard photographs because this is one of his explorations that he did, and that picture has been Photoshopped to remove Sara entirely.
They still use the photograph of L.
Ron Hubbard, but Sara doesn't exist.
- Gone.
- Gone completely.
His eldest, L.
Ron Hubbard Jr.
, Nibs, participated in Scientology, unlike his sister Katie and his mother Polly, who never got involved.
He participated in Scientology and was Hubbard's right-hand man for many years and is featured in a lot of things that Hubbard said at the time when he's delivering his lectures or writing his policies and bulletins and Nibs was a golden child until Nibs no longer was a golden child.
And then Nibs was non-existent.
I mean literally erased.
There is a video of one lecture series that Hubbard did, the only one that was filmed - Yeah.
- Where Nibs appears.
Well, Scientology put out a new version of that where he has literally been erased frame by frame.
Uh I hardly know what sort of a congress to give you now, I mean - Even though he was there.
- He never existed.
He never existed.
Like with Scientologists, today and has been in history, they deem you an enemy and label you a Suppressive and everybody has to disconnect from you.
But particular to L.
Ron Hubbard's family, he did it to his own children.
And if they can't be erased, they are vilified and labeled not to be listened to.
- Yes.
- They are enemies.
They are Suppressive People.
They are evil.
I've been the subject of the what's called the Fair Game doctrine, which has been existence since the mid '50s that simply says that anyone perceived as an enemy of L.
Ron Hubbard or Scientology can be attacked, sued, lied to, deprived of property, or even destroyed.
Someone has actually tried to kill you? Yes, I believe so, about three or four times over the years.
So, Nibs is erased from history.
- Yes.
- Now, what's who's next? - Suzette.
- Where is Suzette today? Living her life.
No longer a part of the Church.
No longer a part of the Sea Organization.
She could have an effect Stake the claim to the throne.
- Correct.
- She could have a tremendous claim to the throne.
What about Arthur Hubbard? Where is he? Arthur is living somewhere in Los Angeles.
He has become a painter of some renown.
And sadly, I mean, this I found terribly upsetting actually that Alexis, his daughter by the middle wife, middle so-called wife, wanted to make contact with Hubbard later on.
And, you know, naturally would want to make come up to - with her famous father.
- Sure.
And approaches were made, and Hubbard dictated a letter which an Emissary was sent to read to Alexis - saying that - Not to give.
- To read - Yeah, exactly.
And saying he wasn't her father, and her father was probably Jack Parsons.
Her mother was a whore.
Now, come on.
That behavior of that kind is in my view utterly unconscionable.
The next one is Diana.
Diana is still in Scientology.
Oh, she's still in the Sea Org? She's still in the Sea Organization.
I don't know what position she holds.
Do you, Mike? Well, most people have the impression that she would, you know, yield some power.
That's not the case.
So what is the case? She for the longest time was a script writer.
- In the Sea Org.
- She would write scripts.
Of recent vintage in the last year, she has been paraded out in a few events to go there and glad-hand with people.
- I assume - Make an appearance.
- To create the impression - Just public relations - That public as you know - Yes, yes.
- As "we're still with Ron".
- Yes.
You know, "this is still the Hubbard organization".
Yes.
Do you know, Russell, that they built a $10 million mansion for L.
Ron Hubbard after he died? - I did not know that.
- To come back to.
When you die, you're suppose to be coming back to report back for duty in the Sea Organization, and Hubbard started saying that a person who had died was granted a 21-year leave of absence from the Sea Organization to return within 21 years.
They have Scientology Sea Org members put out his clothes every night, wash them because just in case, and lay them out again the next morning.
Every single day.
Unfortunately, he's ten years overdue.
Russell, the ceremony has to continue to keep the believers believing.
They also have the infinity symbol In the desert.
So that he can see it.
Law is that this is so that L.
Ron Hubbard can find his way back to that location.
What do you think his legacy will be? Or should be? I think his legacy will be one of of sadness and deceit and that he will have affected adversely the lives of very, very many people.
I cannot see a single benefit he's brought the table.
I can't think he's done or said anything with any consequence that would be of benefit to anybody.
And how do you think people will view L.
Ron Hubbard 20 years from now? As a sham.
As a charade.
As a man who damaged a lot of people.
And that he will be viewed with sorrow.
That there will be sorrow in that legacy about what happened.
Presumably, the whole story won't get out to the to everybody until Scientology runs out, and then everyone can look at what has happened objectively and understand what was going on and that this this monster was a monster.
And then there would be no further need to consider L.
Ron Hubbard as this great deity - as you described him.
- Right.
- Yes.
- As he described himself.
Yeah, exactly.
Hana, I wanted to end on a positive note because I know you're doing you do a lot of great work, and you and your husband Jerry help many people.
And I want you to talk about that.
It took us a while to work out a technique.
And it began to work, and we modified it and worked with it and worked with it.
And we did that for about 20 years.
And we got hundreds of youngsters and parents and spouses out of Scientology.
But I was gonna say, Hana, it's not so much of getting people out of Scientology but putting families back together.
Putting families back together, it was the most wonderful thing.
Hana, thank you for everything that you and Jerry have done, and for coming here today.
Leah and I are following in the footsteps of a lot of other people who did a lot of the hard work before we showed up on the scene, you being one of them, Russell being another.
You took the slings and arrows when there wasn't much to support you.
- No, we didn't have - And now we have an enormous amount of support from people all over the world and the Internet, but it's only because of people like you that the truth is now being exposed to so many more.
And I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Oh, thank you, Mike.
And thank you, Leah, for doing what you're doing, and thank you, Russell, for the book.
- Yes, thank you, guys.
- You are really brave - All right, I'm crying now.
- To do that.
And now you're crying, and stop it.
Hana, thank you.
Well, you all right, you do it.
Go ahead.
That when LRH discarded the body that had served his being well for almost 75 years in this lifetime.
Still rolling, let's settle.
We're rolling and speeding.
Okay, quiet, please.
Tonight we're gonna be discussing the life of L.
Ron Hubbard.
You know, when we talk about Scientology, and the mystery of L.
Ron Hubbard sort of lurks in the background.
Who was this guy? How did he come to do what he did? And I hope that we can give some perspective on him as a person and what he was doing and how he went about doing it.
I do remember as a child seeing this man as some form of deity.
And I was young, but I was already very early on indoctrinated to believe that this man had all the answers.
- Did you have a similar - Oh, me too.
My goal when I was growing up was to join the Sea Organization as soon as I could and go work with L.
Ron Hubbard.
Right.
That was like the ultimate objective that I could attain in life was to be right with him, working with him to save the planet.
You get the idea that here is the source of all the answers to everything.
Right, and that's what your parents are teaching you.
- Absolutely.
- Your parents are saying, "Hey, little Mike, little Leah, "and to all Scientology children, "this man is so important to me "and should be very important to you "because that's why we're giving up our lives because this man is saving mankind".
Scientology is totally a workable science.
It is only workable.
We're interested in what produces results, and if you know certain things and you apply them and that then increases a man's IQ, increases his ability to handle the world around him.
Why, he naturally then is able to to do better and to do more, to make more money, to be more to be happier in his environment and so forth.
He had the ability to convince people that he knew what was doing and, "If you just listen to me, this is where I will take you".
- Right.
- He's like the Pied Piper.
"I will take you here if you just listen to what I'm saying because I have solved the problems of how to get there".
But you have to give it to the man.
People flocked to him, dedicated their lives to him.
People currently are giving up their lives, their money, their families - for this man.
- Right.
And the promises that this man made.
In his book "Dianetics," it says that it cures things.
Immortality and spiritual freedom and breaking the cycle of life and death, these are all things that are described as "this is what Scientology will accomplish for you".
Thank you.
Over the past six years, LRH has indeed been intensively researching the upper bands OT.
Approximately two weeks ago, he completed all of his research as he had set out to do.
He's now moved on to his next level of OT research.
This level is in fact done completely exterior from the body.
At this level of OT, the body is nothing more than an impediment and encumbrance to any further gain as an OT.
Thus Thus at 2000 hours Friday, the 24th of January A.
D.
36, L.
Ron Hubbard discarded the body he had used in this lifetime for 74 years, ten months, and 11 days.
L.
Ron Hubbard has decided to leave his body - Discard his body.
- Discarded his body.
What would be the risk of being honest? If L.
Ron Hubbard hadn't been able to eat the carrot, then no Scientologist would be able to attain the carrot that is being dangled in front of them of immortality, et cetera, et cetera.
And the lawyer for Scientology comes out, and I do remember very clearly this man saying, you know, he wasn't sick.
They made the point to say that he made a decision to leave his body because the work that he needed to do needed to be outside of his body.
By the decision to continue his work outside the confines of his body and by the decision to do it now, it is not surprising.
The body of L.
Ron Hubbard was sound and strong and fully capable of serving this mighty thetan for many years had that suited his purposes.
The lawyer said he was of sound mind and body.
- Exactly.
- And what's the truth? He was not at all in good shape when he finally died.
He had pancreatitis and various other ailments and illnesses for some period of time.
This was a briefing to keep Scientologists in, to not give up and say, "Well, screw it.
"If this man died, if he's just an average human "who died of a stroke and sickness "then everything the first book that we read, "which is 'Dianetics,' - is a lie".
- Right.
Starting with the fact that he died not having accomplished what he had said so often, "I have found the path to achieve this "and this is scientific fact and it's case histories prove, et cetera, et cetera".
It's sort of a big overview that sets the stage for "how did he get to that".
And so you have to look at this man and go, "He was a genius in certain aspects and quite diabolical in another".
And we're gonna meet Hana Whitfield, who worked very closely with L.
Ron Hubbard and was one of the first Sea Org members in the history of the Sea Org.
So we'll be talking to her.
And we're also going to be talking to Russell Miller, the biographer who wrote the definitive biography on L.
Ron Hubbard and who researched his life beyond what anybody else has ever done.
Now, Hana, how did you come to Scientology? It was a long route through an abusive family.
So, I was searching.
Searching for the answers.
I was searching for the answers.
I had become a registered nurse in Johannesburg, graduated, and I met a medical student who said, "You might be interested in this book".
And he handed me "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health".
And what was fascinating to you about that? When I saw the title, "Modern Science of Mental Health," I went, "Ding.
"If there is such a thing "as a modern science of mental health, I have to find out".
- Right.
- I mean, if he took the time to write a book, do all this research, and find out all this about the mind, he must know what he's talking about.
- Right.
- When I got "Dianetics" and walked into the local housie and saw a picture of Hubbard on the wall, that convinced me that Hubbard was the returned messiah.
So you went immediately full on into Scientology? Absolutely.
I read the book all the way through, and even though I thought some parts were totally ridiculous, there was so much else in the book that captivated me.
And what did you think of it? Did you have a similar fascination? No, no, I'm afraid it didn't.
I was completely dumbfounded that anybody could take it seriously.
I mean, I thought the whole thing was a joke, to be honest.
I mean, forgive me Hana for saying this, but you approach from very different perspectives.
- Sure.
- You know, I was a journalist and working on the biography of Hubbard.
When I was researching the book, I became aware very quickly, actually, that I had to check everything.
I couldn't take a single thing at face value.
He was incapable of telling the truth about himself.
Everything about him was a lie.
Hubbard was constantly embellishing his life.
I couldn't take a single thing at face value.
I had to check everything.
He said he was top sergeant in the Marines.
He said he was a doctor.
He said he was a nuclear physicist.
None of it was true.
So what was he? Hubbard was a ordinary kid, nice, young man.
The family grew up in a modest little house in Helena.
He claimed he was born on his grandfather's ranch which covered a quarter of the state of Montana.
He wasn't.
He didn't.
He was a Navy brat, and so he followed his family around as his father was posted from one place to another.
And the father was eventually sent to Guam.
He said that he had toured the Orient as a young man, learning the secrets of life from wise men and gurus.
He didn't.
He was on a ten-day tour of China with wives and families from Guam, where his father was stationed.
From high school he graduated from high school, then went to George Washington University.
He said he graduated as a nuclear physicist.
He didn't.
He really was a pretty poor student.
Never graduated from George Washington University.
I remember talking to one woman, and she kept referring to Dr.
Hubbard.
So I corrected her and I said, "Well, no, he's not a doctor.
His background is eng as an engineering".
Of course, I was wrong about that.
He had no background in engineering.
He had flunked out of George Washington University after just in his second year.
Hubbard really drifted after dropping out of University.
He was unsure of what to do with his life, and I think he found himself when he started writing science fiction.
That was it was a moment when science fiction was becoming extremely popular.
He had a great imagination.
He had lots of ideas and great flair.
You know, these interplanetary, galactic wars and all the pre-"Star Wars" stuff, really.
You know, he was L.
Ron Hubbard the well-known science fiction writer.
Come the war, he enlisted in the United States Navy.
And the this is where Hubbard's story and the real story of L.
Ron Hubbard's activities diverges in an extraordinary way.
I mean, there is no similarity between the two.
The story was that Hubbard was constantly in combat.
He was wounded many times.
He was got up to all kinds of adventures behind the lines.
The reality was that he was a disaster as an officer.
I got his record from the Freedom of Information Act.
The record gives chapter and verse on every single moment of his naval career in great, great detail.
His reports were, "This officer is unsuitable for command right now".
He was admonished for this and that and the other.
By 1944, the cumulative injuries he suffered in combat had taken their toll.
Lame from a Nazi torpedo and partially blind from the flash of a ship's gun, he was transferred to Oak Knoll Naval Hospital at war's end.
He said he'd been nearly blinded 'cause he there's some artillery fire had gone off right next to his face and he could hardly see.
None of it was true.
And another one, he was injured in the leg and subsequently he obviously kept little bits of shrapnel in his pocket and he'd sort of walk out of a room and drop a bit and explain, "Oh, yeah, shrapnel keeps working its way out.
I've been hit so many times".
"Shrapnel keeps working its way out of my body".
I forgot about that.
But it was a lie.
- He writes about this.
- Yes.
He writes about being in fantastic battles of which he was greatly injured.
- Oh, yeah.
- And he talks - about curing himself.
- Yes.
By 1948, through my own processing and use of the principles I had isolated up to that time, was able to pass a 100% combat physical, which was very mysterious to the government how I'd suddenly become completely physically well from being blind and lame.
"Dianetics" had been written in 1950.
He gave himself a prestige and credit - Yes.
- Where it wasn't due in order to promote "Dianetics".
"Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health," was released to the world on May 9, 1950.
It was an immediate bestseller and ignited a grass-roots movement that spawned some 750 Dianetics groups almost overnight.
You know, he monopolized on the time, you know, where people were looking for alternatives, where people wanted to be in charge of their own mental health, to not to be told, you know, had the appearance that it was a self-help proposition.
It was not any of those things, but it was a movement of the time.
Right, and I think that also very cleverly the concepts of "Dianetics" are that you may react badly to people, you may be sick, you may be ill, whatever.
You are not bad.
This thing is bad.
This reactive mind that "Dianetics" set up - that you have.
- Yes.
And only I can tell you how to eradicate that thing.
- Yeah.
- It is the hawk that makes "Dianetics" so appealing to so many people.
This is a very, very important point in the life of L.
Ron Hubbard because the fundamental of "Dianetics" is based on the fact that he cured himself.
I can say flatly that 99% of what my father wrote about his own life and what he had done is false.
Was he really in the war and shot up and healed himself with his own mind and? Uh, he was in the Navy during World War II, but he was never wounded or blinded.
He did use this repeatedly to justify how he had come to discover - Dianetics.
- And Scientology.
If Hubbard really didn't suffer these injuries in the war and didn't cure himself, then the foundation of "Dianetics" and Scientology falls to pieces.
So the thing that I have issue with is if that is untrue, what he claims about himself, what he says in these books that is everything that Scientology is based on is what L.
Ron Hubbard says about himself But, Leah, it's vitally important for the continuation of Scientology for Hubbard to be seen as this extraordinary individual.
- Yes, of course.
- But but he might have been extraordinary.
I don't care if people thinks he's extraordinary.
He could be extraordinary.
- He could be - A genius.
A genius.
I don't care.
What I care about is that he has based a religion that costs people a half $1 million and their lives Oh, yeah.
- Based on lies.
- Yes.
"Dianetics," when it first boomed in the United States after 1950, and then it went into a decline.
People were not achieving what had been promised.
Hubbard had left a trail of chaos behind him.
You know, everything he did turned bad in a way.
I mean, the first Dianetics organizations, you know, they ran out of money and there were all kinds of lawsuits and litigation.
He said several times that the way to make money - was to start a religion.
- Right.
He's on the record of saying that on three separate occasions - to three different people.
- Yes.
And Hubbard loved money.
You know, he was motivated by money.
This is a book that he titled "Scientology 8-80," and it it's introduced with I think the most audacious and extraordinary introduction of any book ever, really.
And it goes like this: "With this book, the ability to make one's body old or young at will" "The ability to heal the ill without physical contact.
"The ability to cure the insane and incapacitated "is set forth for the physician, the layman, the mathematician, and the physicist".
Please.
I mean, this is There's nothing more to be done.
- No, quite.
- There's nothing.
Drop the mic.
Did you consider all this a religion? - No.
- Do you now? No, because it's a business.
It always has been.
I was one of the incorporators of the original church organizations, and we incorporated just because the AMA And the IRS were giving him a lot of problems in the early '50s.
"Dianetics" moved into Scientology, and there's a whole story about that.
And Scientology then continued to grow and sort of expand around the world until Hubbard installed himself in England at Saint Hill in 1959 and became the magnet for Scientologists around the world to come and study with Hubbard.
He's making a huge amount of money, which seemed to have disappeared.
Money rolled in.
The money rolled out very, very quickly indeed.
He was the kind of character that you would expect that the FBI and the CIA would take a bit of attention, and indeed the MI6 was also looking at his activities.
And then by this time, he started the Sea Orgs simply because life was getting too hot for him in every country he went to.
You know, he was getting into constant difficulties with the authorities.
And he made a very simple decision.
He said, "Well, the surface of the planet is "most of it's water.
So if I go on the sea, then they can't chase me".
Hubbard decided there was only one answer.
He would take to the high seas.
With his loyal band of disciples, he would move himself and his empire outside any governments' jurisdiction.
What I don't understand is how L.
Ron Hubbard set Scientology, not just the Sea Org, but Scientology up as a military operation.
The uniforms resemble the military.
And every policy is written as a as a Flag order, and there are high crimes.
And there's a master-at-arms.
- That's the end result.
- Of? It started as just Scientology.
Okay.
Then Hubbard developed the Sea Organization.
And at a certain point, the Sea Organization just gradually took over all of Scientology.
I suppose by making it into a quasi-military organization, which is an authoritarian structure - Yes.
- It's easier to control, I guess.
He saw himself as an absolute dictator who absolutely dictated everything that you are to think, everything that you are to do, and every action that you are to take in your life.
L.
Ron Hubbard, like every subject, is an authoritarian on and has the tools to handle, you know, anyone's marriage.
He's the one to go to on how to raise children.
Now they say we're breaking up marriages.
All right, that's a lie.
As a matter of fact, they're saying that at the moment when you've got this book, which was just about to go on the press is "How To Save Your Marriage" because it contains thousands of successful marriages.
I would like to take a larger view of Hubbard's family.
He had not just three wives, but he had two children with his first wife.
His eldest, L.
Ron Hubbard Jr.
- Right.
- He was called Nibs, and then Katie.
Hubbard went off.
He abandoned them, actually, and went off to start Dianetics, and then subsequently Nibs went back to his father and became a part of his life again.
But Polly and Katie lived their lives and have never been a part of anything in Sci Most Scientologist don't even know that they - Exist.
- Ever existed.
- I didn't.
- I know.
Polly was just a nice girl who met Hubbard and fell in love with him and had kid and but and maybe their marriage would have continued, except Hubbard got involved with Jack Parsons in Pasadena.
Hubbard was dabbling in black magic.
- Yes.
- And Satanic rituals.
And trying to invoke, you know, spirits and all that stuff.
Hubbard then immediately fell for Sara, who is actually Jack Parsons's lover.
Parsons didn't believe in marriage, but he had this beautiful young lady living there who was his girlfriend.
Hubbard immediately glommed onto her and eventually the place just sort of tore apart because of the big romance.
Polly was then set to one side.
Then Sara was married.
He had a daughter with Sara, Alexis.
There were no limits for Hubbard.
Hubbard disregarded all kinds of conventions.
So, Hubbard married his second wife without divorcing his first wife.
Then denounced the second wife and said, you know, she never existed.
How many times have you been married? I've been married twice, and I'm very happily married just now.
I have a lovely wife and I have four children.
My first wife is dead.
What happened to your second wife? I never had a second wife.
- Okay, who's next? - Mary Sue Hubbard.
They had four children.
There was Diana, the oldest, the beautiful one with the long red hair.
And Suzette.
She was more the tomboy.
And then there was Quentin.
And then little Arthur.
They were all on the big ship.
"The Royal Scotsman," which became the "Apollo".
Were they being raised by L.
Ron Hubbard and Mary Sue? No one was taking care of the children.
They were absorbed into the organization, and their superiors were taking care of them.
That was who was taking care of them.
They grew up totally in the culture of the Sea Organization.
There was no family culture.
There was no none of that.
Now, the kids were just on post, right? They were just Sea Org members.
They were treated the same as every other crew member assigned dirty jobs, hard jobs, menial tasks, punishments, just the same.
- They didn't go to school.
- Oh.
They weren't schooled onboard the ship.
There was no schooling, which I found deplorable.
But he believed young children were adults in small bodies, and they had to be treated like adults.
Yeah, there's a Flag order that is written that says that, you know, every Sea Org member, no matter their age, child or adult, is to be treated the same as A Suppressive Child is a Suppressive Child And is to be treated accordingly.
Hubbard was distant from his children on the ship.
Except for Diana, his oldest girl.
She was his favorite.
They had a close relationship, dad and daughter.
The other children, not so much that I could see.
Quentin gave me a few auditing sessions, and I loved him dearly.
Sweet, sweet kid.
Never close to his father.
Never in his father's research room, never Quentin lived his own life onboard, and from quite early on, I got the distinct impression that Hubbard wasn't interested in his children.
Yeah.
Russell, something that you wrote in your book, you said that maybe Quentin was homosexual.
Why would you say that? The people that I interviewed who just generally accepted that he was probably homosexual, but he couldn't be mentioned to L.
Ron because Well, that's really the point.
Scientology believes that homosexuality is one of the lowest conditions that you can be in.
L.
Ron Hubbard categorized these people as the covert hostility, that they should all be taken to an island and eradicated - from the rest of decent - Yes.
- Yes.
- Human beings.
So, what your saying is, from the interviews that you did, he was possibly dealing with his sexuality but couldn't communicate that certainly - being a Scientologist - Not to his father.
But not to his father, who wrote the policies that these people should be taken off - Yeah.
- And eradicated.
When Quentin killed himself by attaching a pipe to the exhaust of his car and running it through the window, Hubbard's reaction was one of fury that Quentin should do this.
Not grief or horror that his son should do this, but of fury that it would attract attention, negative attention to what he was doing.
- I mean - With words, something to the effect of, "Oh, my God, he's done it to me again".
Even Mary Sue, you know, even she in the end was set to one side when Operation Snow White came into being.
Only Hubbard, I think in all the world, could of decided that the way to deal with the bad information that was lodged in government files was to simply steal it and destroy it.
You know, that to him was the obvious explanation.
- It was simple.
- You know, a simple thing - to do.
- Very simple.
So, set this thing in motion with Mary Sue nominally in charge and the loyal Scientologist infiltrating government offices on a regular basis, burglaring offices at night, stealing hundreds and hundreds of documents, putting them to one side, and obviously in the end they're gonna get caught, and they did.
And it was Mary Sue that took the wrap.
Hubbard, you know, made it quite clear that we wasn't going to get involved in or any way, shape, or form as responsible for this outrageous act, and so Mary Sue went to prison.
And then she was, you know, given a house - Yes.
- In Los Angeles, where she had never had contact with L.
Ron Hubbard again.
And she was monitored to the last day of her life by people who were installed in her household - Yes.
- By David Miscavige, who reported to him every day on her activity.
Yes.
When any of those children or wives fell into disfavor, they literally got written out of history.
And after Mary Sue Hubbard took the fall, she suddenly is eradicated from the world of Scientology.
Yeah, there's like pictures of L.
Ron Hubbard and her.
Then all of the sudden there's a new picture of L.
Ron Hubbard - and he's just there by himself.
- Yes.
And there was a very famous one of him and Sara, who was his second wife, sitting on the back of a yacht.
- Right, yes.
- That has now become one of the iconic L.
Ron Hubbard photographs because this is one of his explorations that he did, and that picture has been Photoshopped to remove Sara entirely.
They still use the photograph of L.
Ron Hubbard, but Sara doesn't exist.
- Gone.
- Gone completely.
His eldest, L.
Ron Hubbard Jr.
, Nibs, participated in Scientology, unlike his sister Katie and his mother Polly, who never got involved.
He participated in Scientology and was Hubbard's right-hand man for many years and is featured in a lot of things that Hubbard said at the time when he's delivering his lectures or writing his policies and bulletins and Nibs was a golden child until Nibs no longer was a golden child.
And then Nibs was non-existent.
I mean literally erased.
There is a video of one lecture series that Hubbard did, the only one that was filmed - Yeah.
- Where Nibs appears.
Well, Scientology put out a new version of that where he has literally been erased frame by frame.
Uh I hardly know what sort of a congress to give you now, I mean - Even though he was there.
- He never existed.
He never existed.
Like with Scientologists, today and has been in history, they deem you an enemy and label you a Suppressive and everybody has to disconnect from you.
But particular to L.
Ron Hubbard's family, he did it to his own children.
And if they can't be erased, they are vilified and labeled not to be listened to.
- Yes.
- They are enemies.
They are Suppressive People.
They are evil.
I've been the subject of the what's called the Fair Game doctrine, which has been existence since the mid '50s that simply says that anyone perceived as an enemy of L.
Ron Hubbard or Scientology can be attacked, sued, lied to, deprived of property, or even destroyed.
Someone has actually tried to kill you? Yes, I believe so, about three or four times over the years.
So, Nibs is erased from history.
- Yes.
- Now, what's who's next? - Suzette.
- Where is Suzette today? Living her life.
No longer a part of the Church.
No longer a part of the Sea Organization.
She could have an effect Stake the claim to the throne.
- Correct.
- She could have a tremendous claim to the throne.
What about Arthur Hubbard? Where is he? Arthur is living somewhere in Los Angeles.
He has become a painter of some renown.
And sadly, I mean, this I found terribly upsetting actually that Alexis, his daughter by the middle wife, middle so-called wife, wanted to make contact with Hubbard later on.
And, you know, naturally would want to make come up to - with her famous father.
- Sure.
And approaches were made, and Hubbard dictated a letter which an Emissary was sent to read to Alexis - saying that - Not to give.
- To read - Yeah, exactly.
And saying he wasn't her father, and her father was probably Jack Parsons.
Her mother was a whore.
Now, come on.
That behavior of that kind is in my view utterly unconscionable.
The next one is Diana.
Diana is still in Scientology.
Oh, she's still in the Sea Org? She's still in the Sea Organization.
I don't know what position she holds.
Do you, Mike? Well, most people have the impression that she would, you know, yield some power.
That's not the case.
So what is the case? She for the longest time was a script writer.
- In the Sea Org.
- She would write scripts.
Of recent vintage in the last year, she has been paraded out in a few events to go there and glad-hand with people.
- I assume - Make an appearance.
- To create the impression - Just public relations - That public as you know - Yes, yes.
- As "we're still with Ron".
- Yes.
You know, "this is still the Hubbard organization".
Yes.
Do you know, Russell, that they built a $10 million mansion for L.
Ron Hubbard after he died? - I did not know that.
- To come back to.
When you die, you're suppose to be coming back to report back for duty in the Sea Organization, and Hubbard started saying that a person who had died was granted a 21-year leave of absence from the Sea Organization to return within 21 years.
They have Scientology Sea Org members put out his clothes every night, wash them because just in case, and lay them out again the next morning.
Every single day.
Unfortunately, he's ten years overdue.
Russell, the ceremony has to continue to keep the believers believing.
They also have the infinity symbol In the desert.
So that he can see it.
Law is that this is so that L.
Ron Hubbard can find his way back to that location.
What do you think his legacy will be? Or should be? I think his legacy will be one of of sadness and deceit and that he will have affected adversely the lives of very, very many people.
I cannot see a single benefit he's brought the table.
I can't think he's done or said anything with any consequence that would be of benefit to anybody.
And how do you think people will view L.
Ron Hubbard 20 years from now? As a sham.
As a charade.
As a man who damaged a lot of people.
And that he will be viewed with sorrow.
That there will be sorrow in that legacy about what happened.
Presumably, the whole story won't get out to the to everybody until Scientology runs out, and then everyone can look at what has happened objectively and understand what was going on and that this this monster was a monster.
And then there would be no further need to consider L.
Ron Hubbard as this great deity - as you described him.
- Right.
- Yes.
- As he described himself.
Yeah, exactly.
Hana, I wanted to end on a positive note because I know you're doing you do a lot of great work, and you and your husband Jerry help many people.
And I want you to talk about that.
It took us a while to work out a technique.
And it began to work, and we modified it and worked with it and worked with it.
And we did that for about 20 years.
And we got hundreds of youngsters and parents and spouses out of Scientology.
But I was gonna say, Hana, it's not so much of getting people out of Scientology but putting families back together.
Putting families back together, it was the most wonderful thing.
Hana, thank you for everything that you and Jerry have done, and for coming here today.
Leah and I are following in the footsteps of a lot of other people who did a lot of the hard work before we showed up on the scene, you being one of them, Russell being another.
You took the slings and arrows when there wasn't much to support you.
- No, we didn't have - And now we have an enormous amount of support from people all over the world and the Internet, but it's only because of people like you that the truth is now being exposed to so many more.
And I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Oh, thank you, Mike.
And thank you, Leah, for doing what you're doing, and thank you, Russell, for the book.
- Yes, thank you, guys.
- You are really brave - All right, I'm crying now.
- To do that.
And now you're crying, and stop it.
Hana, thank you.