Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends (1998) s02e03 Episode Script
Black Nationalism
1 - What if there were a peaceful solution? - There is no peaceful solution.
- There is no peaceful solution.
- If there were, would you advocate that? We're not going to stand here and speak of some hocus-pocus, some shazam, some abracadabra magic.
There is no peaceful way.
The white man, I say to you over and over again, is absolutely disagreeable to get along with in peace.
Manhattan.
I was on my way to Harlem.
My mission: To spend time with New York's Black Power groups, from the moderate to the extreme.
I wanted to find out to what extent they'd accept me, a white man, into their lives.
And I'd arrived at a sensitive time.
There is anger tonight after four New York City police officers shot and killed an unarmed African immigrant 22-year-old Diallo was unarmed when police killed him.
They fired 41 shots.
Three of the four cops have been involved in shootings before.
The four officers have not testified before the grand Jury investigating the shooting.
(Louis) Galvanising the community reaction to the shooting of Amadou Diallo was Reverend Al Sharpton, New York's most prominent black activist, the man I'd come to see.
Well, well, well, well, well That's all right 0h, yes, it is That's all right You know it is That's all right That's all right That song, I gotta sing it again now That's all right That's all right! All right, hug the person next to you.
Tell 'em you love them because they're African.
- Don't I get a hug? - Yeah, 0K.
No problem.
No problem, brother.
The Rev was rallying support for a march on Wall Street to protest the shooting of Amadou Diallo.
(Angry shouting) Forward, ever! Backward, never! No turning round, no backing up, no selling out, no bowing down, no submitting, no compromise.
- It's gonna be no justice - (All) No peace! - No justice - No peace.
All right, everybody sing (All) Amen! Everybody, now Amen! Everybody sing Amen The Rev was a busy man, so I met one of his aides.
- How you doing, Louis? How you doing? - You're Ed Barnes? How's it going? I'm fine.
How's everything with you? Not bad.
That was a very emotional meeting.
- People seem very upset.
- They are.
People are being shot.
They don't bother to ask are you the right guy or the wrong guy? They just look up, see a person of colour.
When we wake up in the morning, we have to come out combat ready, because we know the man is going to push us in a corner, snatch us down, search us, and sometimes he puts things on us.
So we have something to be consciously concerned about.
- And other people don't - The white man is a devil! (Indistinct dialogue) - What did she say? - "The white man is a devil," she said.
- That makes me slightly uncomfortable.
- (Laughs) - That's all right, I understand.
- People here Most of the people here are very understanding.
We don't preach that hate thing.
- We just want - What did she mean, a devil? That's an expression that the Muslims been using for years.
- Muslims? You mean like regular Muslims? - No, no, no, no, no.
I'm talking about certain activists that used that term quite often, that the white man is the devil.
They've been saying that for years.
You don't hear it as much as you used to, but you used to hear that quite a bit.
Really? You don't hear it as much as you used to, but you hear it That's interesting too.
I'd like to find out more about that.
Does Reverend Al Sharpton think that the white man is the devil? If he did, he wouldn't deal with the white man.
No.
Exactly.
What I'm hoping to do is get some time with him and get him to explain the issues and maybe show me around New York a little bit.
If you can get five minutes, you'll be lucky.
The man is very busy.
When you talking to him, you gotta be talking and walking.
He's moving all the time.
Reverend Sharpton, I'm Louis from the BBC.
Did we have a Can we get a hook-up and maybe go on a tour of New York and find out about your work? Reverend Sharpton? No, I'm not expecting to do it now.
I just wanted to establish a connection and hook up later in the week.
- All right.
- Yeah, so I'll call you and we'll fix up a time? Given the frosty reception, I knew it would take something special to coax the Rev out of his office.
So I hired a tour bus.
Hello, there.
Thank you very much for meeting with us, Reverend Al Sharpton.
I'm Louis Theroux from BBC 2.
What we're hoping to do, if you've got the time, is do a quick tour of Harlem.
- Does that sound all right? - Fine.
- Fine.
- 0K.
Superb.
Excellent.
New York is basically a city where blacks are in one area.
Uh Some areas, there's blacks and Latinos, then whites in a totally different community.
The high idea of integration in America is a myth.
- Yeah.
- It doesn't exist, particularly in New York.
There's no banks in Harlem, and when you look at the lack of development, and the housing conditions and the filth, it's amazing.
And we have to live in these conditions.
I'm only going to be here a few days.
Do you think I might come to that march on Wall Street? - 0h, absolutely.
- Yeah? Absolutely.
You may, if you get very involved and we do civil disobedience, you may be here longer.
You might be in jail with us.
- You're joking.
- I never joke.
I smile, but I don't joke.
Come on, let's go down.
I want to show you something.
Tell him to stop.
What is wrong with you, Tim? Can we get in? Yeah Reverend, where are we going, exactly? This shows the power.
A young man comes out of the movement, building his own business.
If he was a young white businessman, they would have given him business loans.
This is going to be the biggest, best, and everybody in England has to come eat with Reverend Sharpton at Mama Rousse.
If they didn't get a loan, how come it's still going ahead? Because he had empowerment ideas.
He went to businessmen in his own community and they believed in him.
This is the largest walk-in refrigerator freezer in Harlem.
It's chilly? Wait a few minutes! (Laughter) Cortez.
He's the head of all the gangs in Harlem.
Yeah, comedy.
I get it.
Someone called me a devil, I think because I'm white, and I wasn't sure how to take that.
You worry about if somebody calls you a devil? If you had to live in this condition, you certainly would think this was hell, and all hells have devils.
Just because of the colour of your skin, you can do things I can't do.
I'm well-known, I'm influential, but you can do things I can't do in a city I was born in.
- Like? - You can go to better schools.
You can rent or buy in a better neighbourhood.
- Just because of the colour of your skin.
- There's not much you can say to that.
You can definitely say something to that.
You can say, "No justice, no peace.
" That's what you say.
Look at the conditions now.
We've just gone two blocks out of Harlem.
Look how clean the streets are.
I mean, it's amazing.
In two blocks, the city discovers how to take care of a community.
What other large groups are there on the black political spectrum? Nation of Islam's a good group to talk to.
They are also a religious group, but they are an empowerment group.
They are a large force in the community.
- If the devil thing comes up, ignore it? - I would suppose.
I mean, if you know you're not a devil, or you don't feel you're a devil, then don't worry about it.
If you keep getting bothered by it, maybe there's a little devil in you that you're not too sure about.
You're going to a meeting in here? I guess we part ways here, then.
- Thank you.
- See you at the rally.
- Yeah.
The march.
- Bring your toothbrush, just in case.
Encouraged by Reverend Sharpton, I'd arranged to meet the Nation of Islam, the originators of the belief that the white man is the devil.
I'd been reading up on the teachings of its founder, EliJah Muhammad.
The Nation had a reputation for guarded secrecy, but its New York minister, BenJamin Muhammad, had promised me a rare insight, or so I thought.
0h, here we go! Here we go.
- How do you do, sir? - How are you? You're Benjamin Muhammad.
I'm Louis Theroux from BBC 2.
How are you doing? May we come in? We will not be able to film inside of the mosque.
Uh, you know, the mosque is a sacred place.
Already I had a hunch it wasn't going to be the insight I'd planned on.
And somehow, our relationship never developed beyond the formalities.
In fact, it became even more awkward.
I've been (Clears throat) reading, uh Message Message To The Blackman.
Yes.
It was written by the Most Honourable Elijah Muhammad.
Is there any way we could do one more turn around the block? Well, I have a conference call that I must attend to.
- Thank you.
- Hey, thank you.
Bye-bye.
I'd spent time with one of the Nation of Islam's most senior figures, and I still felt no clearer about the doctrine.
So I tracked down one of its former spokesmen, Dr Khalid Muhammad.
He'd been stripped of his rank for outspoken racist comments.
After leaving the Nation, he gained notoriety for his militant anti-white message.
In 1998, he organised the Million Youth March, and was accused of inciting violence against the police.
In self-defence, if they attack you, take their goddamn guns from them - and use their guns on them! - (Crowd cheering) Dr Khalid now leads the New Black Panthers, an underground black vigilante group advocating armed self-defence.
The rifles are with the troops.
He refused us access to the inner workings of his organisation, but he agreed to meet me at a Harlem restaurant.
I was rather nervous.
- Thank you very much.
- Tell me your name once more.
- It's Louis.
Louis Theroux.
- 0K.
- You're being very friendly.
- I don't understand.
Your media image had led me to think you might be more aggressive.
No, you always see me in a battle mode.
The white race is absolutely disagreeable to get along with in peace.
No other people on the face of the planet earth have been able to get along with white people since white people have been on our planet.
Not to be too blunt about it, do you regard me as a devil? - What a cheap little question! - Is that a cheap question? It is not only a cheap question, it's really evidence of what I have just said.
You are my star witness here at the table.
- You couldn't resist asking a devilish question.
- Why is that a devilish question? If, indeed, there is a mystery devil somewhere, I don't think he has a chance against the white man on top of the ground.
Really? Do you think because, erm You seem slightly distracted.
Just taking in all of my surroundings.
- Let's break for a minute.
- Would you like something to eat? I'd counted on having lunch with Dr Khalid, but it seemed he had other ideas.
So I ate alone.
- You're back.
- I'm back.
- You didn't bring your plate, though.
- No, she's going to bring me some dessert.
- Phyllis Blackworth.
- Very pleased to meet you.
Pleased to meet you.
- Are you in a relationship at the moment? - No, I'm not.
- Would you go out with a white woman? - It's never happened in my life.
- It's never happened.
- 0n principle? It just hasn't happened? In theory, no objection? If I believe that the white race is the devil, the white man is the devil, what would make you think I would make some special place in my heart for the white woman? - That's another devilish question.
- Love does crazy things to a man.
- Well, I agree.
But I prefer - (Phyllis) All right For you to ask me about a white woman is just really indicative of your nature.
I like women of my culture.
Uh As a black nationalist, a pan-Africanist, I'm interested in building the black nation.
I understand the Nation of Islam platform includes a provision for the creation of a separate state within the US.
- Is that something you believe in too? - With all of my heart.
We need some of this good earth that we can call our own.
America owes us reparations.
- So what we're proposing - It would be these states here.
- You're talking about down here? - Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia.
You have the Carolinas here, North and South.
In that general area.
Doesn't that mean, then, that they'd be giving up the chance to live in Harlem? You can't be serious, to ask me to give up Africa for the gilded cage called Harlem.
0r any other so-called reservation or ghetto inside of this strange land, picking up the filthy and indecent and wicked habits of this strange people.
No, I don't think so, Louis.
We need a nation of our own, a land of our own.
We must have freedom and independence.
We must have freedom indeed.
So, 0K, here we are.
Now, why are we here? This is a place here in Harlem that we're very proud of.
And it's the last of the few that's kind of holding the line, as whites begin to sweep up the entire and gobble up and swallow up the entire Harlem.
I've read a bit in Nation of Islam doctrine that says there's a 6,000-year reign of the white man, basically, and then it comes to an end.
Is that a belief, a view, that you subscribe to? - 100 per cent.
- And that's happening now, maybe? It is.
We believe that the confusion in the white man's governments of the world, jockeying for new world order and economic battles that are going on, the dollar, the euro That's beautiful.
The dollar, the euro, and here, with the Sexgate scandal, the white man's world, we feel, is coming to a close.
That would look great on the lady Her name was Valerie.
This is a female piece, isn't it, brother? Yeah, this would look beautiful on her.
And a complementary male piece that would go along with this.
- This is the Coogi line.
- Her name wasn't Valerie.
- No, her name was Phyllis.
- Phyllis.
Phyllis.
Phyllis.
The other lady's name was Valerie.
- Right, you remember, don't you? - Yeah.
- That black woman caught your eye.
- No, no, well, not in a bad sense.
- She didn't catch your eye? - She didn't catch my eye? She was distracting you.
Your eyes were going like - Is that what was happening? - Yeah! Well, it's good that it was a black woman.
My eyes wouldn't go like that if it had been a white woman.
Yeah, well, we haven't put that to the test yet.
Well, you can't do it with Leeanne.
- And you can't do it with, erm - Kate.
- Kate.
- Get a shot of Leeanne and Kate.
You can't do it with your Miss England or Miss London.
You can't do it with any of them.
- I wouldn't give them a second look.
- Yeah.
Fair enough.
- This is horse skin? - Pony skin.
That's the baby.
A baby horse? That is not going to go down well in Britain.
- They love horses.
- Then you shouldn't buy them.
You love horses more than you do black people.
- In Britain? - Yes.
It goes down quite well in Britain that you colonised all of certain sections of Africa and built the wealth of England, but you sound so sympathetic over the little pony.
I wasn't trying to make a race issue out of it.
You're giving me such a hard time.
Now how would I give white folks an easy time? - I don't know.
How You know - What about a belt? - 0K.
- Let's see what kind of Are these horses too? Have you ever seen that? Horse trousers? - No, I haven't.
- We have the jacket to go with it.
- Would you wear these? - No, sir, I wouldn't.
Why? I'd rather have some pants made out of a white man's skin.
(Louis laughing) The white man probably killed the little pony, and you are standing there, acting like you are amazed because you are interviewing me like I killed the little pony.
I wasn't trying to give you a hard time about the trousers.
Will you admit that white people did it? I don't know anything about who made them.
There's a good chance that it was.
- It comes from Italy, sir.
- The Italian white man is the one who kills Don't you get upset about the horses now! 0h, I'm upset about whatever you do.
- 0K.
- Good to see you.
Got your warriors with you.
- This is a powerful man, y'all.
Very powerful.
- Thank you.
- Khalid Muhammad.
Say peace.
- (Both) Peace.
Peace, brothers.
You gonna be great black men one day, when you grow up.
It's all in your eyes.
You're gonna be great, great black men one day, when you grow up.
Mohammed, are you a supporter of Dr Khalid, as well? - Uh As what? - As a figure on the scene.
Leadership.
- Black power.
- Definitely.
He's a Muslim.
He's a Mus See, you I would consider white.
Would you consider Mohammed black or white? I consider Mohammed as a member of the original family of our people.
And I see Mohammed as looking quite different from you.
I can tell the difference.
I can feel the different energy and the different spirit.
- You're in trouble now.
- No kidding.
I've been in trouble all day.
You didn't try to divide us before you left, did you? No, I do think that The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think we're that different under the skin.
- And so - Let's stop a second.
If we deal with biology, genetics, we have to be different under the skin.
Your characteristics would not be recessive according to the law of genetics, and mine would not be strong or dominant.
I just ask because Mohammed doesn't look to me I don't think he looks like a black man.
His hair is different.
He's got nappy hair.
He's got strong features.
You have the keen, narrow-looking features.
The Nordic features.
- And you got that interesting nose.
- What does that mean? And the chin.
Let it go at that, and feel like you're lucky.
- Interesting cheekbones.
An interesting fella.
- What does that mean? Mohammed, those are strong features.
They're very strong.
- Mine are? - Weak.
- Recessive.
- Hey, don't you start! - Recessive.
- Yeah, fair enough.
Thank you so much.
- Thanks, Mohammed.
- You're very welcome.
Thanks very much.
Dr Khalid recommended another group promoting black supremacy and the demise of the white man.
The Israelites, who preach in Times Square, are infamous in New York for their harsh message based on racial division.
They claim only certain races will rule in the next millennium.
Who's been pushed into ghettos and the slums? The people listed on this sign, the Israelites.
If you're not on this sign, then you're not one of the children of God.
God is going to set his decree in these last days, and that is to totally annihilate America.
America will be blown off the face of the earth by the year 2000.
It's talking about Judgment Day.
The judgment of the so-called white man and all other nations that reaped the benefits of slavery of these people listed on this sign.
The time is at hand for the white man to pay for the crimes of your forefathers.
How can the black man expect to rise in America with the so-called white man ruling over him? Do you have a question? Will you be coming to the march on Wednesday? The Amadou Diallo case? No, we will not be participating in the march on Amadou Diallo.
We are not marching.
I'd love to find out a bit more - 0h, sorry.
Yeah, sorry.
- (Indistinct) Yeah.
No I'd like to find out a bit more about your project.
The elders of our church can convey whatever you need to know.
Where are they based? Where are they located? 1941 Madison Avenue in Harlem, on the third floor.
Isn't that Al Sharpton's building? He is on the second floor.
He doesn't own the building.
He's one of the tenants.
How about that? What a coincidence! - We're not in conjunction with him.
- No.
So I headed back up to Harlem to speak with the elders.
The Israelites claim to have branches across the world.
This group of Israelites called themselves Israeli Church of Universal Practical Knowledge? - Yes.
- Yeah.
Thanks.
- I'm from the BBC.
- Yeah, they'll be escorting you in a moment.
- 0K, what's your name? - Louis.
Louis Theroux.
- What's your title? Journalist? - Presenter.
- Presenter? - Do you have cards? So we have future records of you.
- Let me see some ID.
- 0h, yeah.
I want to see your ID, and your ID.
Is everyone wearing their normal clothing or is this a special occasion? No, this is the occasion, that's how we dress.
- You got to get all that.
- Yeah, 0K.
- This is a little scary, isn't it? - Yeah, it's a powerful painting.
- (Louis) It's a powerful painting.
- Jesus Christ is coming back on a white horse.
He's coming back, and he's going to take down the white man, the Edomites.
That's why your Pope is down there in the ground.
It's gonna happen by the year 2000.
- Really? - That's it, yeah.
- Is everything 0K? - Everything's fine.
Yeah.
What are they up to in there? You'll see when you go inside.
Relax.
- Could you follow me this way? - 0f course.
- How you doing? - Good.
How are you doing? My name is Chief High Priest Isharay.
There are four of us that rule the whole thing.
We are aware of the fact that we have been classified in this country as a black supremist or hate group.
Let me make something perfectly clear.
We're a so-called religious spiritual group that believes totally, wholeheartedly, in the Bible.
I notice you've got a couple of video cameras going.
Are you taping this, as well? Certainly, for security reasons and so on and so forth.
I just want to show you something that's very interesting in this book.
The original rulers of England and Britain were black, which sounds nuts to you.
- May I come up? - Sure.
Come and look with your own two eyes.
- This is more friendly.
- We're not gonna attack.
We're not sharks.
You see the black court officers here.
You see the prosecutors sitting here.
These are black men.
All of this information came from the British Museum, from Westminster Abbey, from Windsor, from all of these places in England.
- I don't know.
That's kind of borderline.
- Wait a minute, there's no borderline.
- Borderline, anyone? - "0h, that's borderline!" Give me a break! Are you on crack? - You see that these guys are black.
- Borderline.
There's no borderline.
This looks like charcoal to me.
That's King George of England.
A light-skinned black man.
You clearly see the Vikings as black men.
Do you see that with your glasses? These are black men.
- You're browbeating me slightly.
- Can you see that those are black men? - In the picture they're black.
- I'm asking you very simple questions.
Without bringing forth any threats.
Can you see that these are blacks? They are black people.
Give the man a hand.
We oughta give him a little handclap.
He finally came out with it.
What you do historically is you cover up the facts.
You come in and you whitewash everything.
Jesus is a black man.
They know that in his home town.
But when you come to America, and you go to England or wherever, he's painted as a white man.
Now, you want to talk about hatred and racism, that's blatant hatred and racism.
- Shall I go back to my seat? - Certainly.
And if any of you have to go to the bathroom or want a drink of water, we have those facilities.
- Come on in, High Priest Kazat.
- Pleased to meet you.
- You've flown in? - He travels all over the world, constantly.
Shalom.
(Speaking Hebrew) Chief High Priest Kazat.
(All speaking Hebrew) (Speaking Hebrew) Can I give you a list of prominent figures from history, and you'll tell me whether they were white or black? - Shoot.
Give me your best shot.
- Where do we start? 0K.
Erm Beethoven.
- Black.
- Mozart.
- Black.
- Cleopatra.
She looked black, but she was white.
- She looked black but she was white? - You're not answering my question.
It's not the colour of your skin that you're being judged by, but the seed of your father.
William Shakespeare.
Undoubtedly black! Without question! - Abraham Lincoln.
- That's still in debate.
What do you mean? You don't know if he's black or white? We're not saying that he was black.
It's a possibility.
Christopher Columbus.
- He was white.
- Henry VIII? Black.
There's people that you swear are white today that are black.
For example, a famous singer, looks like a white man, dances like a black man.
Sings like a black man, but he looks like a white man.
- But he's a black man.
- Who? - Tom Jones.
- Tom Jones is black? - That's right.
- I want to be black.
Trace your family lineage on your father's side.
If you happen to be one of us, you're welcome here.
If you're not, we'll see you in captivity.
- Shalom.
- (All) Shalom.
Invite us to England sometime.
Because so much of what he said is new to me, what I'd really like to do is get a sense of who you are and where you've come from, and who you are in your personal lives, as well.
- I can tell you right now, right now! - What? This interview's based on nothing personal.
We have no opinion.
As far as digging into our personal life, our personal background, we're not here for that.
If you try to get any other type of information out of us, on a personal data basis, - that you will not receive.
0K? - Thank you so much.
- We don't shake hands.
We say Shalom.
- 0K, yes, of course.
Shalom.
Hey, thank you.
Shalom.
- Take it easy.
Thank you.
- 0K.
As I reached the end of the line with the Black Israelites, outrage about Amadou Diallo was growing.
The four officers who shot at him 41 times were still on duty, and the Mayor had done nothing to convince the black community that he was concerned.
At Amadou Diallo's funeral, staging the most fiery protest was Dr Khalid Muhammad.
This is the time for an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, a limb for a limb, and, God damn it, a life for a life.
It raised more questions, which I wanted to put to Dr Khalid.
But I wasn't the only one trying to get his attention.
Thank you.
I'll have it on my wall.
As soon as you walk in, that's the first place I see.
I love you.
I love that man.
I love that man.
There's nothing I won't do for him.
What, constructively, are you proposing that people should do, Dr Khalid? - I'm sorry? - What, constructively, are you proposing that people can actually do, physically, other than getting angry? Are you implying by that that it is not constructive to be angry after 400 years of slavery, suffering and death? Are you saying, arrogantly, as a white man, that we should not Peace, brother.
that we should not be angry? He suggested we head up to the Bronx site where Amadou Diallo was shot.
I just wondered what you and the New Black Panther Party are doing in terms of bringing attention to the case of Amadou Diallo.
Much of what I have been doing around that situation cannot be discussed on camera.
Why? Because no wise soldier, nor general, nor freedom fighter, revolutionary, nor warrior, discusses that kind of sensitive subject on camera, or with a member of that people who have worked so hard to put us in this condition and position, and keep us in this position and condition.
It sounds like you're talking about covert military operations.
It sounds like I'm not talking about anything.
Let's pull over right here and let me run in and get my coat.
- (Khalid) Careful.
- (Horn blaring) So the New Black Panther Party is not seeking to work within the status quo.
It's basically seeking to topple the status quo.
The toppling of the status quo, as you call it, must take place.
- Yeah.
- White America must meet its demise if the black world is to rise.
The two cannot coexist.
Are we nearly there, do you know? We're here.
You know, they found a 42nd bullet hole.
I believe when caskets roll in the black community, that they must also roll in the white community.
- I believe that self-defence - Let me just jump in there.
- That's already problematic.
is the key.
You're saying that the answer to the death of Amadou Diallo is more killing? I'm saying that the black community must, with our God first, arm ourselves to protect ourselves.
This is no time to plead for justice.
This is the time for rebellion and insurrection.
It sounds like what you're basically advocating is race war.
I'm not the advocate of it.
Those who shot and killed brother Amadou Diallo are the advocates of it.
A race war is going to be a horrendous thing.
In your study of history, did your people, your white forefathers, think it would be a horrendous thing when they came to get us from Africa? - In the holds of ships, in chains? - Yes, that was a horrendous thing.
You're saying that more racial violence is the solution to past racial violence? I'm saying that we have to speak the language of the white man, that the white man only understands violence.
And we have to talk in a way that he understands.
We've tried marching, we've tried sitting in, we've tried praying in, we've tried boycotts, we've tried every peaceful way.
We've faced tanks in the streets, just trying to eat at a lunch counter, just trying to go to school.
If there were a peaceful solution, then why didn't the four crackers, the four devils who came up to this address One black man, unarmed.
Four crackers, armed to the teeth, emptying clips with 16 shots in each clip, where was the peaceful solution then? Why didn't they say, "Halt.
Wait there"? - Why didn't they put their guns on - Dr Khalid, we can't - This isn't You're - Why didn't they hide behind their car? Why didn't they hide behind Let me show you how easy it is.
Why didn't they hide behind their police cars and protect themselves from behind their police cars? Why didn't they do that? Why did they just stand and shoot and keep shooting? Do you even want to have a conversation about this? I mean, do you I'm not here to talk to you about this the way you want me to talk about it.
Yeah.
If you don't want that kind of response from me, don't ask me.
Do you realise where we're standing? Do you realise where we are? We're standing where my brother was shot down in cold blood.
But I've met people, black people, who are arguing for a nonviolent solution.
Brainwashed black people who want to be accepted by whites, and they really want this thing to work.
The foolish among my people keep believing in the American dream, which is nothing but an American nightmare.
Black people have tried to get along with white people, and many of us are finished with that now.
I'd failed to talk Dr Khalid into a peaceful solution, but I still hoped to appeal to him on a personal level.
Am I totally off-base to say that I feel like I quite enjoy your company, and that, it's presumptuous, maybe, of me to say maybe you enjoy mine, but the idea of a future in which our races are entirely separated, just on that tiny, trivial basis alone, seems slightly tragic.
It's just that my focus right now is the freedom and independence of my people, so I don't think about white friends, and I certainly don't think about white girlfriends.
Well, thanks so much for your time.
And, erm, for all our sakes, I sincerely hope that what you believe doesn't come to pass, and that we can actually effectuate a better future for everyone.
And I personally hope that my people get this message as fast as they can, so that we can move towards freedom and independence and be extricated and removed from white rule and domination.
See you later.
As much as I disagreed with what he stood for, Dr Khalid's anger made me ashamed of my own complacency.
More than ever, I felt I should do something, even if it was Just to appease my own conscience.
At least there was Al Sharpton's march on Wall Street, so the next day I called round on the Rev's supporter, Ed Barnes, to see how preparations were going.
- 0h, Louis! How you doing? Come on in.
- How are you doing? - I'm fine.
- Good to see you.
- Same here.
- How's it hanging? - I'm hanging in there.
- So what have you been up to? They had me checking out Wall Street today.
We were down there for quite some time.
- 0h, for the, erm - For the rally tomorrow.
- For the march? - Yeah.
Let's go downstairs.
I'm gonna take you to the basement first, cos this way, we can show you the basement and see what you think.
I mean, it's not much, but it's all I got.
Yeah, looks great.
Where are we, Queens? This is Queens, that's right.
This is my bar, this is my recreation room.
This is the bathroom and this is my music room.
You might want to check my music.
0h, yeah, I want to see your music room.
Hey, you've got a lot of vinyl in here.
I know, I know.
I got stuff that's older than you are.
- What do you like to drink? - Could I get a gin and tonic? Yeah, sure.
Why not? When you're not too busy, come round and I'll put some mad sounds on for you.
Really let you see what's going on out here.
I've got a lot of this stuff too.
Sade, Anita Baker.
I have some of that.
You've even got the Busta Rhymes CD.
0h, I bought that thing off someone.
That's too rough for me.
- Is it? - I play that thing and (Laughs) - It's pretty hardcore.
- 0h, man, I had no idea! Is that too strong for you? Check it out.
- Too strong? - That's beautiful.
- 0h, good.
0K.
- It is strong.
That's what I mean.
- 0K, good.
- So, I've had kind of a rough couple of days.
Well, I wouldn't say rough, but slightly stressful.
But, you know, no big deal.
(Sighs) So, who else have you been able to interview, and how long have you been here? 0h, just a few days.
We talked to the, erm Nation of Islam guys.
- 0h, yeah? - And Khalid Muhammad.
Church of Universal Practical Knowledge.
The guys who preach in Times Square.
0h, yes, I know who you're talking about.
I was trying to build some racial bridges, see if I could communicate a little.
And I had sort of mixed I would say mixed success, you know.
Well, you're gonna get a mix wherever you go, in most cases.
People gonna say something, whether they know what it's about or not.
They say things cos they think it's the right thing to say, especially with this last shooting thing, you know? - Amadou Diallo? - Yeah.
People are telling us racism is over with, but that's not so.
It's even more blatant now than it was before.
It's just a little more sophisticated and a little more settled.
But it's still there and it still hurts.
And it still does a lot of damage.
How are you feeling about tomorrow, the march? Well, tomorrow is a big day and I don't have a problem about being locked up.
I haven't been locked up in a long, long time.
Being an old man now, whether I'll be able to handle it or not I don't know, but I'll find out.
- Have you been locked up before? - Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Watch your head.
Come on.
Thanks for the drink.
I'm feeling a bit tipsy.
That was a light drink.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Reverend Sharpton told me to bring a toothbrush.
That's what he told you? You're not going to jail.
You don't have to get into that thing.
I hope not.
(Sharpton on PA) Let me say another thing The following day, I made my way to the rally on Wall Street.
I was still uncertain how much I would get involved.
In any case, I couldn't see Ed in the crowd.
- No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - What do we want? - Justice! - When do we want it? - Now! - All right! - (Cheering and whistling) We're not going to stop until those four policemen face justice.
So I'm announcing today, we're going to escalate our activism.
Reverend Sharpton was on the move, and I headed after him.
I wanted to stick with the action.
That's Al.
(Louis) Reverend Sharpton.
0K, go down.
(Man) Give 'em some room, guys.
Give 'em some room.
- Back it up, back it up.
- Give 'em some room so no one gets hurt.
(Man on megaphone) Folks, please, give them some room.
(Animated chatter) Come on, give 'em some room.
Watch your back.
Whoa, whoa, wait.
Will you all step back? (Man on megaphone) Please, give them some room.
He's I think they've just cuffed him.
And, erm they're about to take him away, I guess.
0h, my God! Riot vans.
(Cheering and applause) (Reporter) Sharpton and 11 activists were arrested after they walked to Broadway, sat down and blocked traffic for approximately 15 minutes.
Sharpton is promising this will happen over and over again until there's action taken Reverend Sharpton was the talk of the airwaves, but it was time for me to say goodbye.
the same charge, at the headquarters of Merrill Lynch.
You chickened out.
You didn't go to jail with me! The funniest thing, when I climbed on that ladder to speak, I looked out and saw thousands of people.
I looked about 400 people down, and I saw your face.
- You did not! - I said, "You're supposed to be over here.
" - That's not true, is it? - I saw you, right down there.
- Which side was I on? The left or the right? - My left.
The right of the crowd.
- That's true.
- I saw you.
- You really did? - I said, "You're supposed to be over here.
" - Nearer to you? - With me, getting ready to go to jail.
That's funny.
You didn't really want me to go to jail? - I was looking for you.
- Seriously? I looked all around the police van, I didn't see you.
(Chuckles) That's funny.
No, but seriously, because it actually did cross my mind, seriously.
But when I saw how serious you were about your purpose, I thought I might trivialise it by jumping in there.
- I thought you were serious about my purpose.
- I was, I was.
But at the same time, only having been familiar with the issue for a matter of days, it could be construed as jumping in where it wasn't appropriate.
Do you know what I mean? (Sharpton) Yeah, well Do you really feel let down that I didn't jump into the fray there? - No, I think you let yourself down.
- Seriously? You missed a golden opportunity to know what it is to fight for freedom.
Where are you going? - I'm checking everybody's all right.
- Yeah.
- Everybody's all right? - (Man) Everyone's fine.
Yeah, I don't know.
What if I'd been there by the side of Reverend Let's go down here and see what Joe's doing.
Let's go down and see.
with Martin Luther King, if I'd been by his side when he was doing, "I have a dream," that would have seemed a little odd, wouldn't it? - Might have helped his dream.
- Yeah.
- But, erm - What's up, Joe? - All right, Rev.
- You all right? Reverend Sharpton, do you know anything about the little journey I've been on? - What have you found out? - Well, that's a good question.
Those are classics.
The first time I went to England, I went with James Brown.
He treated me like a son.
And he was going to do England, and I went.
He did London, Birmingham, a few places.
When I came back in the '90s, I was controversial then, but when I went with him in 1980, nobody even knew who I was.
You were telling me about your sojourn.
How has it been? Well, it's been interesting.
It's been slightly depressing.
I hate to say it, cos I've met some wonderful people, but Well, one of the things I find encouraging about your work is that it is basically nonviolent and looking for an integrated future.
Whereas someone like Khalid Muhammad wants to establish a separate state.
- Khalid Muhammad hasn't hurt anybody.
- No.
No, he hasn't.
No, but I do fear that maybe his proposals for arming the masses could lead to people getting hurt.
But why are you fearing what could hurt, and not fearing what has hurt? NYPD, New York City Police Department, has hurt people.
Let's not deal with imagined pain.
I mean, I don't agree with everyone's strategy, but they're not the problem.
- It'll take a struggle, but we'll win.
- What makes you so sure? History.
You got to remember, 30 years ago, we were on the back of the buses here.
Things change, if you struggle.
They never change by themselves.
It's good to hear you encouraging me to get involved, because this week I've felt like there's not a lot I can do except stay in the background.
You not only should get involved, you must get involved.
That's the only way it's going to turn around.
Just because some people may not want you to get involved, that should make you want to do it even more, cos it's right.
That's the only way we're going to turn the world around.
- Think about it.
- I will.
- Hey, thanks very much.
- All right.
(Woman) No justice! (All) No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! (Man on megaphone) Stand up.
Please stand up.
We're not gonna let nobody turn us around We're gonna keep on a-walking Keep on a-marching, walking up freedom's way We won't let nobody turn us around You see a white image in the front of the book.
But when you go to the back of the book, there he is.
Black! Can you read this for the BBC? The monument installed in 1605 is discussed in relation to the Shakespeare Stop! Is discussed in relation to who? Alfred the Great? Constantine.
- No.
William Shakes Who? - (Giggles) I can't hear you.
This is not the Jerry Springer Show.
Who? - William who? - What's the question? Is discussed in relation to William who? William who? William Tell? - William Shakespeare? - Thank you.
Boy, I had to beat it out of him.
Isn't this amazing? You guys are phenomenal.
Yes.
- There is no peaceful solution.
- If there were, would you advocate that? We're not going to stand here and speak of some hocus-pocus, some shazam, some abracadabra magic.
There is no peaceful way.
The white man, I say to you over and over again, is absolutely disagreeable to get along with in peace.
Manhattan.
I was on my way to Harlem.
My mission: To spend time with New York's Black Power groups, from the moderate to the extreme.
I wanted to find out to what extent they'd accept me, a white man, into their lives.
And I'd arrived at a sensitive time.
There is anger tonight after four New York City police officers shot and killed an unarmed African immigrant 22-year-old Diallo was unarmed when police killed him.
They fired 41 shots.
Three of the four cops have been involved in shootings before.
The four officers have not testified before the grand Jury investigating the shooting.
(Louis) Galvanising the community reaction to the shooting of Amadou Diallo was Reverend Al Sharpton, New York's most prominent black activist, the man I'd come to see.
Well, well, well, well, well That's all right 0h, yes, it is That's all right You know it is That's all right That's all right That song, I gotta sing it again now That's all right That's all right! All right, hug the person next to you.
Tell 'em you love them because they're African.
- Don't I get a hug? - Yeah, 0K.
No problem.
No problem, brother.
The Rev was rallying support for a march on Wall Street to protest the shooting of Amadou Diallo.
(Angry shouting) Forward, ever! Backward, never! No turning round, no backing up, no selling out, no bowing down, no submitting, no compromise.
- It's gonna be no justice - (All) No peace! - No justice - No peace.
All right, everybody sing (All) Amen! Everybody, now Amen! Everybody sing Amen The Rev was a busy man, so I met one of his aides.
- How you doing, Louis? How you doing? - You're Ed Barnes? How's it going? I'm fine.
How's everything with you? Not bad.
That was a very emotional meeting.
- People seem very upset.
- They are.
People are being shot.
They don't bother to ask are you the right guy or the wrong guy? They just look up, see a person of colour.
When we wake up in the morning, we have to come out combat ready, because we know the man is going to push us in a corner, snatch us down, search us, and sometimes he puts things on us.
So we have something to be consciously concerned about.
- And other people don't - The white man is a devil! (Indistinct dialogue) - What did she say? - "The white man is a devil," she said.
- That makes me slightly uncomfortable.
- (Laughs) - That's all right, I understand.
- People here Most of the people here are very understanding.
We don't preach that hate thing.
- We just want - What did she mean, a devil? That's an expression that the Muslims been using for years.
- Muslims? You mean like regular Muslims? - No, no, no, no, no.
I'm talking about certain activists that used that term quite often, that the white man is the devil.
They've been saying that for years.
You don't hear it as much as you used to, but you used to hear that quite a bit.
Really? You don't hear it as much as you used to, but you hear it That's interesting too.
I'd like to find out more about that.
Does Reverend Al Sharpton think that the white man is the devil? If he did, he wouldn't deal with the white man.
No.
Exactly.
What I'm hoping to do is get some time with him and get him to explain the issues and maybe show me around New York a little bit.
If you can get five minutes, you'll be lucky.
The man is very busy.
When you talking to him, you gotta be talking and walking.
He's moving all the time.
Reverend Sharpton, I'm Louis from the BBC.
Did we have a Can we get a hook-up and maybe go on a tour of New York and find out about your work? Reverend Sharpton? No, I'm not expecting to do it now.
I just wanted to establish a connection and hook up later in the week.
- All right.
- Yeah, so I'll call you and we'll fix up a time? Given the frosty reception, I knew it would take something special to coax the Rev out of his office.
So I hired a tour bus.
Hello, there.
Thank you very much for meeting with us, Reverend Al Sharpton.
I'm Louis Theroux from BBC 2.
What we're hoping to do, if you've got the time, is do a quick tour of Harlem.
- Does that sound all right? - Fine.
- Fine.
- 0K.
Superb.
Excellent.
New York is basically a city where blacks are in one area.
Uh Some areas, there's blacks and Latinos, then whites in a totally different community.
The high idea of integration in America is a myth.
- Yeah.
- It doesn't exist, particularly in New York.
There's no banks in Harlem, and when you look at the lack of development, and the housing conditions and the filth, it's amazing.
And we have to live in these conditions.
I'm only going to be here a few days.
Do you think I might come to that march on Wall Street? - 0h, absolutely.
- Yeah? Absolutely.
You may, if you get very involved and we do civil disobedience, you may be here longer.
You might be in jail with us.
- You're joking.
- I never joke.
I smile, but I don't joke.
Come on, let's go down.
I want to show you something.
Tell him to stop.
What is wrong with you, Tim? Can we get in? Yeah Reverend, where are we going, exactly? This shows the power.
A young man comes out of the movement, building his own business.
If he was a young white businessman, they would have given him business loans.
This is going to be the biggest, best, and everybody in England has to come eat with Reverend Sharpton at Mama Rousse.
If they didn't get a loan, how come it's still going ahead? Because he had empowerment ideas.
He went to businessmen in his own community and they believed in him.
This is the largest walk-in refrigerator freezer in Harlem.
It's chilly? Wait a few minutes! (Laughter) Cortez.
He's the head of all the gangs in Harlem.
Yeah, comedy.
I get it.
Someone called me a devil, I think because I'm white, and I wasn't sure how to take that.
You worry about if somebody calls you a devil? If you had to live in this condition, you certainly would think this was hell, and all hells have devils.
Just because of the colour of your skin, you can do things I can't do.
I'm well-known, I'm influential, but you can do things I can't do in a city I was born in.
- Like? - You can go to better schools.
You can rent or buy in a better neighbourhood.
- Just because of the colour of your skin.
- There's not much you can say to that.
You can definitely say something to that.
You can say, "No justice, no peace.
" That's what you say.
Look at the conditions now.
We've just gone two blocks out of Harlem.
Look how clean the streets are.
I mean, it's amazing.
In two blocks, the city discovers how to take care of a community.
What other large groups are there on the black political spectrum? Nation of Islam's a good group to talk to.
They are also a religious group, but they are an empowerment group.
They are a large force in the community.
- If the devil thing comes up, ignore it? - I would suppose.
I mean, if you know you're not a devil, or you don't feel you're a devil, then don't worry about it.
If you keep getting bothered by it, maybe there's a little devil in you that you're not too sure about.
You're going to a meeting in here? I guess we part ways here, then.
- Thank you.
- See you at the rally.
- Yeah.
The march.
- Bring your toothbrush, just in case.
Encouraged by Reverend Sharpton, I'd arranged to meet the Nation of Islam, the originators of the belief that the white man is the devil.
I'd been reading up on the teachings of its founder, EliJah Muhammad.
The Nation had a reputation for guarded secrecy, but its New York minister, BenJamin Muhammad, had promised me a rare insight, or so I thought.
0h, here we go! Here we go.
- How do you do, sir? - How are you? You're Benjamin Muhammad.
I'm Louis Theroux from BBC 2.
How are you doing? May we come in? We will not be able to film inside of the mosque.
Uh, you know, the mosque is a sacred place.
Already I had a hunch it wasn't going to be the insight I'd planned on.
And somehow, our relationship never developed beyond the formalities.
In fact, it became even more awkward.
I've been (Clears throat) reading, uh Message Message To The Blackman.
Yes.
It was written by the Most Honourable Elijah Muhammad.
Is there any way we could do one more turn around the block? Well, I have a conference call that I must attend to.
- Thank you.
- Hey, thank you.
Bye-bye.
I'd spent time with one of the Nation of Islam's most senior figures, and I still felt no clearer about the doctrine.
So I tracked down one of its former spokesmen, Dr Khalid Muhammad.
He'd been stripped of his rank for outspoken racist comments.
After leaving the Nation, he gained notoriety for his militant anti-white message.
In 1998, he organised the Million Youth March, and was accused of inciting violence against the police.
In self-defence, if they attack you, take their goddamn guns from them - and use their guns on them! - (Crowd cheering) Dr Khalid now leads the New Black Panthers, an underground black vigilante group advocating armed self-defence.
The rifles are with the troops.
He refused us access to the inner workings of his organisation, but he agreed to meet me at a Harlem restaurant.
I was rather nervous.
- Thank you very much.
- Tell me your name once more.
- It's Louis.
Louis Theroux.
- 0K.
- You're being very friendly.
- I don't understand.
Your media image had led me to think you might be more aggressive.
No, you always see me in a battle mode.
The white race is absolutely disagreeable to get along with in peace.
No other people on the face of the planet earth have been able to get along with white people since white people have been on our planet.
Not to be too blunt about it, do you regard me as a devil? - What a cheap little question! - Is that a cheap question? It is not only a cheap question, it's really evidence of what I have just said.
You are my star witness here at the table.
- You couldn't resist asking a devilish question.
- Why is that a devilish question? If, indeed, there is a mystery devil somewhere, I don't think he has a chance against the white man on top of the ground.
Really? Do you think because, erm You seem slightly distracted.
Just taking in all of my surroundings.
- Let's break for a minute.
- Would you like something to eat? I'd counted on having lunch with Dr Khalid, but it seemed he had other ideas.
So I ate alone.
- You're back.
- I'm back.
- You didn't bring your plate, though.
- No, she's going to bring me some dessert.
- Phyllis Blackworth.
- Very pleased to meet you.
Pleased to meet you.
- Are you in a relationship at the moment? - No, I'm not.
- Would you go out with a white woman? - It's never happened in my life.
- It's never happened.
- 0n principle? It just hasn't happened? In theory, no objection? If I believe that the white race is the devil, the white man is the devil, what would make you think I would make some special place in my heart for the white woman? - That's another devilish question.
- Love does crazy things to a man.
- Well, I agree.
But I prefer - (Phyllis) All right For you to ask me about a white woman is just really indicative of your nature.
I like women of my culture.
Uh As a black nationalist, a pan-Africanist, I'm interested in building the black nation.
I understand the Nation of Islam platform includes a provision for the creation of a separate state within the US.
- Is that something you believe in too? - With all of my heart.
We need some of this good earth that we can call our own.
America owes us reparations.
- So what we're proposing - It would be these states here.
- You're talking about down here? - Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia.
You have the Carolinas here, North and South.
In that general area.
Doesn't that mean, then, that they'd be giving up the chance to live in Harlem? You can't be serious, to ask me to give up Africa for the gilded cage called Harlem.
0r any other so-called reservation or ghetto inside of this strange land, picking up the filthy and indecent and wicked habits of this strange people.
No, I don't think so, Louis.
We need a nation of our own, a land of our own.
We must have freedom and independence.
We must have freedom indeed.
So, 0K, here we are.
Now, why are we here? This is a place here in Harlem that we're very proud of.
And it's the last of the few that's kind of holding the line, as whites begin to sweep up the entire and gobble up and swallow up the entire Harlem.
I've read a bit in Nation of Islam doctrine that says there's a 6,000-year reign of the white man, basically, and then it comes to an end.
Is that a belief, a view, that you subscribe to? - 100 per cent.
- And that's happening now, maybe? It is.
We believe that the confusion in the white man's governments of the world, jockeying for new world order and economic battles that are going on, the dollar, the euro That's beautiful.
The dollar, the euro, and here, with the Sexgate scandal, the white man's world, we feel, is coming to a close.
That would look great on the lady Her name was Valerie.
This is a female piece, isn't it, brother? Yeah, this would look beautiful on her.
And a complementary male piece that would go along with this.
- This is the Coogi line.
- Her name wasn't Valerie.
- No, her name was Phyllis.
- Phyllis.
Phyllis.
Phyllis.
The other lady's name was Valerie.
- Right, you remember, don't you? - Yeah.
- That black woman caught your eye.
- No, no, well, not in a bad sense.
- She didn't catch your eye? - She didn't catch my eye? She was distracting you.
Your eyes were going like - Is that what was happening? - Yeah! Well, it's good that it was a black woman.
My eyes wouldn't go like that if it had been a white woman.
Yeah, well, we haven't put that to the test yet.
Well, you can't do it with Leeanne.
- And you can't do it with, erm - Kate.
- Kate.
- Get a shot of Leeanne and Kate.
You can't do it with your Miss England or Miss London.
You can't do it with any of them.
- I wouldn't give them a second look.
- Yeah.
Fair enough.
- This is horse skin? - Pony skin.
That's the baby.
A baby horse? That is not going to go down well in Britain.
- They love horses.
- Then you shouldn't buy them.
You love horses more than you do black people.
- In Britain? - Yes.
It goes down quite well in Britain that you colonised all of certain sections of Africa and built the wealth of England, but you sound so sympathetic over the little pony.
I wasn't trying to make a race issue out of it.
You're giving me such a hard time.
Now how would I give white folks an easy time? - I don't know.
How You know - What about a belt? - 0K.
- Let's see what kind of Are these horses too? Have you ever seen that? Horse trousers? - No, I haven't.
- We have the jacket to go with it.
- Would you wear these? - No, sir, I wouldn't.
Why? I'd rather have some pants made out of a white man's skin.
(Louis laughing) The white man probably killed the little pony, and you are standing there, acting like you are amazed because you are interviewing me like I killed the little pony.
I wasn't trying to give you a hard time about the trousers.
Will you admit that white people did it? I don't know anything about who made them.
There's a good chance that it was.
- It comes from Italy, sir.
- The Italian white man is the one who kills Don't you get upset about the horses now! 0h, I'm upset about whatever you do.
- 0K.
- Good to see you.
Got your warriors with you.
- This is a powerful man, y'all.
Very powerful.
- Thank you.
- Khalid Muhammad.
Say peace.
- (Both) Peace.
Peace, brothers.
You gonna be great black men one day, when you grow up.
It's all in your eyes.
You're gonna be great, great black men one day, when you grow up.
Mohammed, are you a supporter of Dr Khalid, as well? - Uh As what? - As a figure on the scene.
Leadership.
- Black power.
- Definitely.
He's a Muslim.
He's a Mus See, you I would consider white.
Would you consider Mohammed black or white? I consider Mohammed as a member of the original family of our people.
And I see Mohammed as looking quite different from you.
I can tell the difference.
I can feel the different energy and the different spirit.
- You're in trouble now.
- No kidding.
I've been in trouble all day.
You didn't try to divide us before you left, did you? No, I do think that The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think we're that different under the skin.
- And so - Let's stop a second.
If we deal with biology, genetics, we have to be different under the skin.
Your characteristics would not be recessive according to the law of genetics, and mine would not be strong or dominant.
I just ask because Mohammed doesn't look to me I don't think he looks like a black man.
His hair is different.
He's got nappy hair.
He's got strong features.
You have the keen, narrow-looking features.
The Nordic features.
- And you got that interesting nose.
- What does that mean? And the chin.
Let it go at that, and feel like you're lucky.
- Interesting cheekbones.
An interesting fella.
- What does that mean? Mohammed, those are strong features.
They're very strong.
- Mine are? - Weak.
- Recessive.
- Hey, don't you start! - Recessive.
- Yeah, fair enough.
Thank you so much.
- Thanks, Mohammed.
- You're very welcome.
Thanks very much.
Dr Khalid recommended another group promoting black supremacy and the demise of the white man.
The Israelites, who preach in Times Square, are infamous in New York for their harsh message based on racial division.
They claim only certain races will rule in the next millennium.
Who's been pushed into ghettos and the slums? The people listed on this sign, the Israelites.
If you're not on this sign, then you're not one of the children of God.
God is going to set his decree in these last days, and that is to totally annihilate America.
America will be blown off the face of the earth by the year 2000.
It's talking about Judgment Day.
The judgment of the so-called white man and all other nations that reaped the benefits of slavery of these people listed on this sign.
The time is at hand for the white man to pay for the crimes of your forefathers.
How can the black man expect to rise in America with the so-called white man ruling over him? Do you have a question? Will you be coming to the march on Wednesday? The Amadou Diallo case? No, we will not be participating in the march on Amadou Diallo.
We are not marching.
I'd love to find out a bit more - 0h, sorry.
Yeah, sorry.
- (Indistinct) Yeah.
No I'd like to find out a bit more about your project.
The elders of our church can convey whatever you need to know.
Where are they based? Where are they located? 1941 Madison Avenue in Harlem, on the third floor.
Isn't that Al Sharpton's building? He is on the second floor.
He doesn't own the building.
He's one of the tenants.
How about that? What a coincidence! - We're not in conjunction with him.
- No.
So I headed back up to Harlem to speak with the elders.
The Israelites claim to have branches across the world.
This group of Israelites called themselves Israeli Church of Universal Practical Knowledge? - Yes.
- Yeah.
Thanks.
- I'm from the BBC.
- Yeah, they'll be escorting you in a moment.
- 0K, what's your name? - Louis.
Louis Theroux.
- What's your title? Journalist? - Presenter.
- Presenter? - Do you have cards? So we have future records of you.
- Let me see some ID.
- 0h, yeah.
I want to see your ID, and your ID.
Is everyone wearing their normal clothing or is this a special occasion? No, this is the occasion, that's how we dress.
- You got to get all that.
- Yeah, 0K.
- This is a little scary, isn't it? - Yeah, it's a powerful painting.
- (Louis) It's a powerful painting.
- Jesus Christ is coming back on a white horse.
He's coming back, and he's going to take down the white man, the Edomites.
That's why your Pope is down there in the ground.
It's gonna happen by the year 2000.
- Really? - That's it, yeah.
- Is everything 0K? - Everything's fine.
Yeah.
What are they up to in there? You'll see when you go inside.
Relax.
- Could you follow me this way? - 0f course.
- How you doing? - Good.
How are you doing? My name is Chief High Priest Isharay.
There are four of us that rule the whole thing.
We are aware of the fact that we have been classified in this country as a black supremist or hate group.
Let me make something perfectly clear.
We're a so-called religious spiritual group that believes totally, wholeheartedly, in the Bible.
I notice you've got a couple of video cameras going.
Are you taping this, as well? Certainly, for security reasons and so on and so forth.
I just want to show you something that's very interesting in this book.
The original rulers of England and Britain were black, which sounds nuts to you.
- May I come up? - Sure.
Come and look with your own two eyes.
- This is more friendly.
- We're not gonna attack.
We're not sharks.
You see the black court officers here.
You see the prosecutors sitting here.
These are black men.
All of this information came from the British Museum, from Westminster Abbey, from Windsor, from all of these places in England.
- I don't know.
That's kind of borderline.
- Wait a minute, there's no borderline.
- Borderline, anyone? - "0h, that's borderline!" Give me a break! Are you on crack? - You see that these guys are black.
- Borderline.
There's no borderline.
This looks like charcoal to me.
That's King George of England.
A light-skinned black man.
You clearly see the Vikings as black men.
Do you see that with your glasses? These are black men.
- You're browbeating me slightly.
- Can you see that those are black men? - In the picture they're black.
- I'm asking you very simple questions.
Without bringing forth any threats.
Can you see that these are blacks? They are black people.
Give the man a hand.
We oughta give him a little handclap.
He finally came out with it.
What you do historically is you cover up the facts.
You come in and you whitewash everything.
Jesus is a black man.
They know that in his home town.
But when you come to America, and you go to England or wherever, he's painted as a white man.
Now, you want to talk about hatred and racism, that's blatant hatred and racism.
- Shall I go back to my seat? - Certainly.
And if any of you have to go to the bathroom or want a drink of water, we have those facilities.
- Come on in, High Priest Kazat.
- Pleased to meet you.
- You've flown in? - He travels all over the world, constantly.
Shalom.
(Speaking Hebrew) Chief High Priest Kazat.
(All speaking Hebrew) (Speaking Hebrew) Can I give you a list of prominent figures from history, and you'll tell me whether they were white or black? - Shoot.
Give me your best shot.
- Where do we start? 0K.
Erm Beethoven.
- Black.
- Mozart.
- Black.
- Cleopatra.
She looked black, but she was white.
- She looked black but she was white? - You're not answering my question.
It's not the colour of your skin that you're being judged by, but the seed of your father.
William Shakespeare.
Undoubtedly black! Without question! - Abraham Lincoln.
- That's still in debate.
What do you mean? You don't know if he's black or white? We're not saying that he was black.
It's a possibility.
Christopher Columbus.
- He was white.
- Henry VIII? Black.
There's people that you swear are white today that are black.
For example, a famous singer, looks like a white man, dances like a black man.
Sings like a black man, but he looks like a white man.
- But he's a black man.
- Who? - Tom Jones.
- Tom Jones is black? - That's right.
- I want to be black.
Trace your family lineage on your father's side.
If you happen to be one of us, you're welcome here.
If you're not, we'll see you in captivity.
- Shalom.
- (All) Shalom.
Invite us to England sometime.
Because so much of what he said is new to me, what I'd really like to do is get a sense of who you are and where you've come from, and who you are in your personal lives, as well.
- I can tell you right now, right now! - What? This interview's based on nothing personal.
We have no opinion.
As far as digging into our personal life, our personal background, we're not here for that.
If you try to get any other type of information out of us, on a personal data basis, - that you will not receive.
0K? - Thank you so much.
- We don't shake hands.
We say Shalom.
- 0K, yes, of course.
Shalom.
Hey, thank you.
Shalom.
- Take it easy.
Thank you.
- 0K.
As I reached the end of the line with the Black Israelites, outrage about Amadou Diallo was growing.
The four officers who shot at him 41 times were still on duty, and the Mayor had done nothing to convince the black community that he was concerned.
At Amadou Diallo's funeral, staging the most fiery protest was Dr Khalid Muhammad.
This is the time for an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, a limb for a limb, and, God damn it, a life for a life.
It raised more questions, which I wanted to put to Dr Khalid.
But I wasn't the only one trying to get his attention.
Thank you.
I'll have it on my wall.
As soon as you walk in, that's the first place I see.
I love you.
I love that man.
I love that man.
There's nothing I won't do for him.
What, constructively, are you proposing that people should do, Dr Khalid? - I'm sorry? - What, constructively, are you proposing that people can actually do, physically, other than getting angry? Are you implying by that that it is not constructive to be angry after 400 years of slavery, suffering and death? Are you saying, arrogantly, as a white man, that we should not Peace, brother.
that we should not be angry? He suggested we head up to the Bronx site where Amadou Diallo was shot.
I just wondered what you and the New Black Panther Party are doing in terms of bringing attention to the case of Amadou Diallo.
Much of what I have been doing around that situation cannot be discussed on camera.
Why? Because no wise soldier, nor general, nor freedom fighter, revolutionary, nor warrior, discusses that kind of sensitive subject on camera, or with a member of that people who have worked so hard to put us in this condition and position, and keep us in this position and condition.
It sounds like you're talking about covert military operations.
It sounds like I'm not talking about anything.
Let's pull over right here and let me run in and get my coat.
- (Khalid) Careful.
- (Horn blaring) So the New Black Panther Party is not seeking to work within the status quo.
It's basically seeking to topple the status quo.
The toppling of the status quo, as you call it, must take place.
- Yeah.
- White America must meet its demise if the black world is to rise.
The two cannot coexist.
Are we nearly there, do you know? We're here.
You know, they found a 42nd bullet hole.
I believe when caskets roll in the black community, that they must also roll in the white community.
- I believe that self-defence - Let me just jump in there.
- That's already problematic.
is the key.
You're saying that the answer to the death of Amadou Diallo is more killing? I'm saying that the black community must, with our God first, arm ourselves to protect ourselves.
This is no time to plead for justice.
This is the time for rebellion and insurrection.
It sounds like what you're basically advocating is race war.
I'm not the advocate of it.
Those who shot and killed brother Amadou Diallo are the advocates of it.
A race war is going to be a horrendous thing.
In your study of history, did your people, your white forefathers, think it would be a horrendous thing when they came to get us from Africa? - In the holds of ships, in chains? - Yes, that was a horrendous thing.
You're saying that more racial violence is the solution to past racial violence? I'm saying that we have to speak the language of the white man, that the white man only understands violence.
And we have to talk in a way that he understands.
We've tried marching, we've tried sitting in, we've tried praying in, we've tried boycotts, we've tried every peaceful way.
We've faced tanks in the streets, just trying to eat at a lunch counter, just trying to go to school.
If there were a peaceful solution, then why didn't the four crackers, the four devils who came up to this address One black man, unarmed.
Four crackers, armed to the teeth, emptying clips with 16 shots in each clip, where was the peaceful solution then? Why didn't they say, "Halt.
Wait there"? - Why didn't they put their guns on - Dr Khalid, we can't - This isn't You're - Why didn't they hide behind their car? Why didn't they hide behind Let me show you how easy it is.
Why didn't they hide behind their police cars and protect themselves from behind their police cars? Why didn't they do that? Why did they just stand and shoot and keep shooting? Do you even want to have a conversation about this? I mean, do you I'm not here to talk to you about this the way you want me to talk about it.
Yeah.
If you don't want that kind of response from me, don't ask me.
Do you realise where we're standing? Do you realise where we are? We're standing where my brother was shot down in cold blood.
But I've met people, black people, who are arguing for a nonviolent solution.
Brainwashed black people who want to be accepted by whites, and they really want this thing to work.
The foolish among my people keep believing in the American dream, which is nothing but an American nightmare.
Black people have tried to get along with white people, and many of us are finished with that now.
I'd failed to talk Dr Khalid into a peaceful solution, but I still hoped to appeal to him on a personal level.
Am I totally off-base to say that I feel like I quite enjoy your company, and that, it's presumptuous, maybe, of me to say maybe you enjoy mine, but the idea of a future in which our races are entirely separated, just on that tiny, trivial basis alone, seems slightly tragic.
It's just that my focus right now is the freedom and independence of my people, so I don't think about white friends, and I certainly don't think about white girlfriends.
Well, thanks so much for your time.
And, erm, for all our sakes, I sincerely hope that what you believe doesn't come to pass, and that we can actually effectuate a better future for everyone.
And I personally hope that my people get this message as fast as they can, so that we can move towards freedom and independence and be extricated and removed from white rule and domination.
See you later.
As much as I disagreed with what he stood for, Dr Khalid's anger made me ashamed of my own complacency.
More than ever, I felt I should do something, even if it was Just to appease my own conscience.
At least there was Al Sharpton's march on Wall Street, so the next day I called round on the Rev's supporter, Ed Barnes, to see how preparations were going.
- 0h, Louis! How you doing? Come on in.
- How are you doing? - I'm fine.
- Good to see you.
- Same here.
- How's it hanging? - I'm hanging in there.
- So what have you been up to? They had me checking out Wall Street today.
We were down there for quite some time.
- 0h, for the, erm - For the rally tomorrow.
- For the march? - Yeah.
Let's go downstairs.
I'm gonna take you to the basement first, cos this way, we can show you the basement and see what you think.
I mean, it's not much, but it's all I got.
Yeah, looks great.
Where are we, Queens? This is Queens, that's right.
This is my bar, this is my recreation room.
This is the bathroom and this is my music room.
You might want to check my music.
0h, yeah, I want to see your music room.
Hey, you've got a lot of vinyl in here.
I know, I know.
I got stuff that's older than you are.
- What do you like to drink? - Could I get a gin and tonic? Yeah, sure.
Why not? When you're not too busy, come round and I'll put some mad sounds on for you.
Really let you see what's going on out here.
I've got a lot of this stuff too.
Sade, Anita Baker.
I have some of that.
You've even got the Busta Rhymes CD.
0h, I bought that thing off someone.
That's too rough for me.
- Is it? - I play that thing and (Laughs) - It's pretty hardcore.
- 0h, man, I had no idea! Is that too strong for you? Check it out.
- Too strong? - That's beautiful.
- 0h, good.
0K.
- It is strong.
That's what I mean.
- 0K, good.
- So, I've had kind of a rough couple of days.
Well, I wouldn't say rough, but slightly stressful.
But, you know, no big deal.
(Sighs) So, who else have you been able to interview, and how long have you been here? 0h, just a few days.
We talked to the, erm Nation of Islam guys.
- 0h, yeah? - And Khalid Muhammad.
Church of Universal Practical Knowledge.
The guys who preach in Times Square.
0h, yes, I know who you're talking about.
I was trying to build some racial bridges, see if I could communicate a little.
And I had sort of mixed I would say mixed success, you know.
Well, you're gonna get a mix wherever you go, in most cases.
People gonna say something, whether they know what it's about or not.
They say things cos they think it's the right thing to say, especially with this last shooting thing, you know? - Amadou Diallo? - Yeah.
People are telling us racism is over with, but that's not so.
It's even more blatant now than it was before.
It's just a little more sophisticated and a little more settled.
But it's still there and it still hurts.
And it still does a lot of damage.
How are you feeling about tomorrow, the march? Well, tomorrow is a big day and I don't have a problem about being locked up.
I haven't been locked up in a long, long time.
Being an old man now, whether I'll be able to handle it or not I don't know, but I'll find out.
- Have you been locked up before? - Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Watch your head.
Come on.
Thanks for the drink.
I'm feeling a bit tipsy.
That was a light drink.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Reverend Sharpton told me to bring a toothbrush.
That's what he told you? You're not going to jail.
You don't have to get into that thing.
I hope not.
(Sharpton on PA) Let me say another thing The following day, I made my way to the rally on Wall Street.
I was still uncertain how much I would get involved.
In any case, I couldn't see Ed in the crowd.
- No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - What do we want? - Justice! - When do we want it? - Now! - All right! - (Cheering and whistling) We're not going to stop until those four policemen face justice.
So I'm announcing today, we're going to escalate our activism.
Reverend Sharpton was on the move, and I headed after him.
I wanted to stick with the action.
That's Al.
(Louis) Reverend Sharpton.
0K, go down.
(Man) Give 'em some room, guys.
Give 'em some room.
- Back it up, back it up.
- Give 'em some room so no one gets hurt.
(Man on megaphone) Folks, please, give them some room.
(Animated chatter) Come on, give 'em some room.
Watch your back.
Whoa, whoa, wait.
Will you all step back? (Man on megaphone) Please, give them some room.
He's I think they've just cuffed him.
And, erm they're about to take him away, I guess.
0h, my God! Riot vans.
(Cheering and applause) (Reporter) Sharpton and 11 activists were arrested after they walked to Broadway, sat down and blocked traffic for approximately 15 minutes.
Sharpton is promising this will happen over and over again until there's action taken Reverend Sharpton was the talk of the airwaves, but it was time for me to say goodbye.
the same charge, at the headquarters of Merrill Lynch.
You chickened out.
You didn't go to jail with me! The funniest thing, when I climbed on that ladder to speak, I looked out and saw thousands of people.
I looked about 400 people down, and I saw your face.
- You did not! - I said, "You're supposed to be over here.
" - That's not true, is it? - I saw you, right down there.
- Which side was I on? The left or the right? - My left.
The right of the crowd.
- That's true.
- I saw you.
- You really did? - I said, "You're supposed to be over here.
" - Nearer to you? - With me, getting ready to go to jail.
That's funny.
You didn't really want me to go to jail? - I was looking for you.
- Seriously? I looked all around the police van, I didn't see you.
(Chuckles) That's funny.
No, but seriously, because it actually did cross my mind, seriously.
But when I saw how serious you were about your purpose, I thought I might trivialise it by jumping in there.
- I thought you were serious about my purpose.
- I was, I was.
But at the same time, only having been familiar with the issue for a matter of days, it could be construed as jumping in where it wasn't appropriate.
Do you know what I mean? (Sharpton) Yeah, well Do you really feel let down that I didn't jump into the fray there? - No, I think you let yourself down.
- Seriously? You missed a golden opportunity to know what it is to fight for freedom.
Where are you going? - I'm checking everybody's all right.
- Yeah.
- Everybody's all right? - (Man) Everyone's fine.
Yeah, I don't know.
What if I'd been there by the side of Reverend Let's go down here and see what Joe's doing.
Let's go down and see.
with Martin Luther King, if I'd been by his side when he was doing, "I have a dream," that would have seemed a little odd, wouldn't it? - Might have helped his dream.
- Yeah.
- But, erm - What's up, Joe? - All right, Rev.
- You all right? Reverend Sharpton, do you know anything about the little journey I've been on? - What have you found out? - Well, that's a good question.
Those are classics.
The first time I went to England, I went with James Brown.
He treated me like a son.
And he was going to do England, and I went.
He did London, Birmingham, a few places.
When I came back in the '90s, I was controversial then, but when I went with him in 1980, nobody even knew who I was.
You were telling me about your sojourn.
How has it been? Well, it's been interesting.
It's been slightly depressing.
I hate to say it, cos I've met some wonderful people, but Well, one of the things I find encouraging about your work is that it is basically nonviolent and looking for an integrated future.
Whereas someone like Khalid Muhammad wants to establish a separate state.
- Khalid Muhammad hasn't hurt anybody.
- No.
No, he hasn't.
No, but I do fear that maybe his proposals for arming the masses could lead to people getting hurt.
But why are you fearing what could hurt, and not fearing what has hurt? NYPD, New York City Police Department, has hurt people.
Let's not deal with imagined pain.
I mean, I don't agree with everyone's strategy, but they're not the problem.
- It'll take a struggle, but we'll win.
- What makes you so sure? History.
You got to remember, 30 years ago, we were on the back of the buses here.
Things change, if you struggle.
They never change by themselves.
It's good to hear you encouraging me to get involved, because this week I've felt like there's not a lot I can do except stay in the background.
You not only should get involved, you must get involved.
That's the only way it's going to turn around.
Just because some people may not want you to get involved, that should make you want to do it even more, cos it's right.
That's the only way we're going to turn the world around.
- Think about it.
- I will.
- Hey, thanks very much.
- All right.
(Woman) No justice! (All) No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! - No justice! - No peace! (Man on megaphone) Stand up.
Please stand up.
We're not gonna let nobody turn us around We're gonna keep on a-walking Keep on a-marching, walking up freedom's way We won't let nobody turn us around You see a white image in the front of the book.
But when you go to the back of the book, there he is.
Black! Can you read this for the BBC? The monument installed in 1605 is discussed in relation to the Shakespeare Stop! Is discussed in relation to who? Alfred the Great? Constantine.
- No.
William Shakes Who? - (Giggles) I can't hear you.
This is not the Jerry Springer Show.
Who? - William who? - What's the question? Is discussed in relation to William who? William who? William Tell? - William Shakespeare? - Thank you.
Boy, I had to beat it out of him.
Isn't this amazing? You guys are phenomenal.
Yes.