Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s02e04 Episode Script
The Bridge to Total Freedom
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Today, we're gonna talk about the Bridge to Total Freedom.
And I think it's pretty important for us to set up for our audience what the Bridge is and what Scientology is selling, and why people give up their children, their lives, their money for it.
This is a foundation of everything in Scientology.
It is a delineated path that every Scientologist must follow.
- Must follow? - Must.
Yeah.
And when you progress on these exact steps, you are supposed to achieve exact results.
There is precise abilities gained on this chart.
There are two sides to this Bridge.
One side is the auditing, which is the counseling - Counseling.
- That you receive.
And the other side is the training, which teaches you to be a Scientology auditor or counselor.
And every Scientologist seeks to arrive at the top of this Bridge.
We've built a Bridge, and we have this assembly of the Bridge, and the Bridge goes from this state of existence to the last state of existence.
And the Bridge is all complete now, and it can be walked.
You have to walk on the Bridge.
Really, the first thing that Scientologists hammer home is Dianetics.
"Dianetics" is considered the book one of the entire subject, and it is held in reverence by all Scientologists.
It is the foundation of everything that followed in Scientology.
What gets in the way of your goals? What destroys your confidence and blocks your happiness in life? Break through the barriers to your success.
Read "Dianetics" by L.
Ron Hubbard.
The theory of Dianetics is very clever.
It says, "Whatever your problems are, "whether you're upset, whether you have pains, "you have sensations, you have emotions "and things that you don't like, it's not your fault".
There is this reactive mind that you have.
That's below your conscious mind? - Awareness.
- Yes.
And that we have the answer of how you can eradicate that.
Dianetics reveals how these negative experiences are stored, and contains a technology to free yourself from them.
The idea then becomes that you can eradicate your reactive mind and become what's known in Scientology as a Clear.
Right.
And Clear in Scientology is the most important step - First step.
- To be achieved for everybody.
Yes, everybody's trying to get to Clear.
Now, as you process the individual, you find that he gets better and better and more able, but is there any end to this? Yes, it's a finite state known as Clear, and that means that the individual has erased his basic illness, which is his reactive mind.
His unconscious mind is gone, and he is totally alert and totally capable.
In order to help us navigate our way through the complexities of the Bridge in Scientology, we have a number of experts that are gonna join us today.
The first of which was a very highly trained auditor, and he held a very senior position in the Scientology hierarchy to oversee the people moving up the Bridge all over the world.
His name is Bruce Hines, and he was formally in what's called the Senior CS International Office of Scientology.
- Another silver fox - Yeah.
- Amongst us.
- Yeah, it's a thing, you know? It's a thing us old people have.
Yeah, well So, Bruce, give us a basic rundown of your history with Scientology.
So I started in Denver, Colorado in 1972, and then I joined the Sea Organization in 1979.
You were a Sea Org member for how many years? In your 24 years, what did you think you were attaining? That I would have perfect memory Wouldn't get sick very much, if at all.
Why did you think that? L.
Ron Hubbard says it over and over again.
This man sets himself up in Dianetics and Scientology is a science and it can be proven.
The reason Scientology's assumptions are can be considered to be true is because they work, and Scientology is totally a workable science.
He promised I would have supernatural abilities.
You know, I'd be able to move objects with my mind.
I'd be able to communicate with people telepathically.
That's what the big promise is.
So L.
Ron Hubbard is selling that and people are buying that, and that is what people believe, and that is why they stay.
Absolutely correct.
But had you ever seen anybody who had telepathic powers? - Or have you ever? - No, of course not.
I probably audited at least 15,000 hours on people, and when you audit someone, you get to know them well Right.
And never, never was there any supernatural ability that you could actually verify - from any of these people.
- Right.
I think it's pretty important for us to set up for our audience that you were forced to write success stories at each level that we complete.
And each Scientologist says, "Yes, that happened".
I mean, I did it, you did it.
You basically sign, saying, "I accomplished that thing".
But if you say, "I don't really feel like I accomplished that," you have to pay to now do something else to find out why you didn't achieve that.
Right, I People learn very quickly, though, Leah.
They learn it's smarter to go, "Oh, yeah, I achieved that".
I'm still asked how I got into Scientology.
I was brought into Scientology as a child.
And I think we should talk to the person who got me into Scientology.
I think that's an excellent idea.
And that's my mother.
A lot of times, people say, like, "I don't know how smart people got into these things".
People assume that you either have to be - stupid or just - Gullible - Gullible.
- Or in a bad place in life, - or something.
- Right.
So, Mom, when did you get into Scientology and why? I was 20 something years old, and I got into Scientology, because I always wanted to be a nurse.
I wanted to help.
And I was looking for something, and when I read "Dianetics," I said, "This is so important".
I said, "I could really help people here.
That's so much more valuable than being a nurse".
So I then started to train.
What did you read in "Dianetics" that made you think you can help people more doing Scientology on them - than being a nurse? - Okay, well, you talk about getting rid of the reactive mind will handle all kinds of health issues.
I thought, "Wow, no one will ever be sick again" - Right.
- "That's amazing".
By the way, there is a category of people that got into Scientology, like my mother in the '70s, that was looking for something more.
And my mother didn't have a mother and father.
They died when she was young.
And, you know, this is a "religion" that would speak to you, because it was offering you something to give back to the world.
Right, because I didn't really have anything.
It gave me a group And it gave me a purpose - Right.
- To help others, and I thought that was amazing, and I loved it in the beginning.
Right, and then so when you got in, what did you think about the state of Clear? That you don't have a reactive mind, that I would never be ill, and basically a very stable person.
You kinda think that that's the end-all.
- Clear? - Clear.
Right.
As a matter of fact, we should say that when Scientologists say we are clearing the planet, that's what they mean.
Scientology believes that if they got the majority of the planet up to Clear, that there would be no war, that there would be a peaceful planet, because the majority of the people making decisions would outweigh any of the bad.
And so that is what people say when they say, "We're clearing the planet," is trying to get the majority of the world - to Clear on the Bridge.
- Correct.
If we are going to make a sane world, and if we are going to clear this planet, we have to ask, "What are you going to do about it? What are you going to do with this planet?" What I think we should answer, or try to answer, is how do people get into Scientology? Because clearly, you know, some people at home are like, "I'd never fall for this shit".
And it's very clever, the way that it is done.
You start out in Scientology usually, if you haven't been raised in it, with doing a test.
On the street, it says "stress tests".
What is a stress test? A stress test is sitting down with an E-meter, and having someone locate an area of stress in your life using the E-meter, and that test is used to then tell you that Scientology has the answers for whatever your problems are.
It sets up that this E-meter, invented by L.
Ron Hubbard, is the thing to believe, and that's an important moment for a person to start to believe in this meter.
Absolutely.
The belief in the E-meter is an absolute requirement to progressing up the Bridge, because the E-meter is fundamental to all Scientology counseling.
No, I know, but what is that supposed to be doing to the person walking down the street - of Hollywood Boulevard? - Finding a ruin.
- What does that mean? - That means finding something that the person has in their life that they want to improve, and then telling them, "Scientology has the answer to that.
"And look, we have this little course here, "and this little course teaches you "how to deal with your finances.
"Or this little course teaches you "how to handle your children.
"Or this little one teaches you how to have a better marriage".
Whatever it is, there is a little course that is, you know, $35 or 100 bucks or something, that is giving something that you feel has some value to you.
Then, you get told, "Well, if you got something out of that, then there is more to come.
There's a lot more to come".
But the initial courses that you take and the introductory things that you do in Scientology don't progress you on one of the steps on the Bridge.
On the Bridge.
And everything is, "Get onto the Bridge".
- Right, right.
- Upwards, yeah.
Like, the carrot drives you up the Bridge.
This is not just the newest, shiniest car.
This is not just the fastest computer.
This is where you are operating at a level that is beyond what anybody has ever seen or even contemplated on planet Earth - Right.
- Literally.
I think also what's important to set up about the Bridge is how they get the money.
The Department of Registration.
- Right.
- A registrar, best way to describe it is he's basically a salesman.
It's a sales function, 'kay? People come into the organization, and they need to get service.
Service costs money.
The registrar works out how they get it paid for.
Their job is to just get money - Gross income.
- Period.
And they say, "Your first step is this".
And they decide that you need a certain amount of what's called intensives.
There is no wall of separation between the making of money and the moving people up the Bridge anywhere.
Right.
So, the minimum, I would say, that it would take to get from "raw meat," as they call it, to the top of the Bridge, I'm saying, it's $300,000, easy.
$250,000, $300,000.
Okay, so that's the Bridge, right? So, the registrar, they're trained on how to extract the money from the parishioner.
Like a car dealership, sitting there, working the phones, and they have listening devices, and their bosses are calling them, saying, "Bullshit, they have the money".
Right.
Sometimes, I would get a call and say, "Bruce, go to the Reg's Office".
And so, I appear, and the Reg's Office is sort of a technical authority expert, and they'd be working on somebody to get him to pay money.
And they'd say, "So, Bruce "this level here that he's looking at doing, you know, how would this help him?" And so, I would say, "Whatever".
And they're lead to believe that the Case Supervisor's totally impartial - Right.
- When it's not true.
It's absolutely not true.
That would help convince a guy to, you know, run another credit card or whatever.
Now, next we wanna talk about going up the Bridge, and that is what everybody is doing in Scientology.
So Bruce would be my auditor.
Auditing is the process of asking specifically worded questions designed to help you find and handle areas of distress.
This is done with an auditor, meaning one who listens.
So, let's do Grade Zero here.
These are the kinds of questions asked on Grade Zero.
And this is all done on E-meter? - Okay.
- Yeah, so this is one of - about 50 processes.
- Yeah.
Yeah.
"Recall another's communication with you".
My daughter talking to me about how she wants to buy a bigger television.
Very good.
"Recall another's no-communication with you.
My mother wouldn't take my calls.
All right.
"Recall another's communication with you".
Mike told me that I looked lovely in dresses.
- Very good.
- That's true.
"Recall another's no-communication with you".
Mike said he was tired and he'll call me tomorrow.
- All right.
- And we go through all of this, and then at the end of Grade Zero, I'm supposed to just say, "I feel like I could speak freely with anyone"? Yeah, somewhere along the line, there would be things to that effect.
And how long would this take, like, to complete Grade Zero? Well, of course, it varies, but, say, 25 hours.
25 hours.
And that would be roughly how much money, just for Grade Zero? - 10 grand.
- 10 grand? $5,000 for a 121/2 hour intensive is a pretty pretty conservative estimate.
Okay.
So what's next? You have to go sit down and provide a success story.
- You talked about that.
- Right.
Have you ever in your career in Scientology ever had a person say, "I did not achieve these things.
- It's a lie"? - Yeah.
- And what happened? - They got declared.
- So they got expelled? - So, basically, it's one of the things that L.
Ron Hubbard wrote.
- Right.
- If you don't experience gains from auditing, the only people that can't experience gain are SPs, or Suppressive People.
So they pay all their money.
They get to it, and they say, "Hey, these things didn't happen.
This is bullshit".
And so L.
Ron Hubbard has he made sure that there was an answer for that.
"It didn't work on you because you're an evil person".
Yeah, it's nothing to do with his technology.
There's nothing wrong with it.
There's something wrong with you? - Yeah.
- The paying customer.
Yeah.
All right, write a success story Yep.
And I'm moving on up the Bridge? - Yep.
- Moving on up! Then I go to Grade One.
Ability to recognize the source of problems - and make them vanish.
- Correct.
So, how would we go about doing that, Bruce? Leah, we're gonna run the next process.
Okay.
"Who has failed to control you?" - My mother.
- Thank you.
"Who has failed to control you?" My mother.
Good.
"Who has failed to control you?" Should I pick another answer? - If you like.
- Do whatever you want.
- Mike.
- Thank you.
Okay, so, I go through this, and what's the realization here? - It's whatever you realize.
- So it doesn't matter? It doesn't mean anything right now, but there's another 50 processes that are coming.
But how do I make my problems vanish? Well, all you need to do is decide you're not gonna have any problems, or you can handle your problems, whatever Okay, how long does this take, Bruce, roughly? - Similar.
- Similar.
So another $10,000? Another four to six weeks - Going in every day? - Yeah, very possibly.
Okay.
Then we get to Grade Two.
It's relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
- What is that? - Various worded ways to get you to tell the bad stuff you've done and the stuff you're not willing to talk about.
So give me some of the questions here.
All right.
"Tell me some things you think you should not have done to another".
Oh.
That'd be a long day.
Well, tell me some.
Uh, okay, I yelled at some people today.
I maybe wasn't very nice to people today.
And I cheated on my diet.
- Okay, thank you.
- You're welcome.
"Tell me some things you think you should not have done to another".
You need more? Yes, this is a repetitive process.
Oh, so I gotta just say all of this - until my needle floats? - Yeah.
What does that usually take, time-wise? As I recall, Zero, One, and Two were pretty much similar lengths.
Three and Four tended to be a little shorter - Okay.
- Maybe at One, you know, 121/2 hours.
So we're talking $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, about $40,000 so far here.
- Something like that.
- Okay.
The first major part of this Bridge is Clear.
How long did it take you to get to Clear? It took about, I would say, two years.
Did you feel, when you got to the state of Clear, that you had achieved what Dianetics had promised? Okay, at that point, I thought I did.
I honestly thought I did.
You believed that you were keeping sickness - away from yourself - Yes.
- Per Dianetics? - Yes, per Dianetics.
- Right, 'cause it's a science.
- Exactly right.
Did you think, "Well, there's something better anyway.
Like, I'm still not OT, so maybe" Of course, you always think there's something else.
You're always looking for the next level.
- It's what we all say - Right.
It's, "We might not have achieved those things, "but we were cool with it, because there was other stuff that was gonna be better" Yes.
Do what you have to do to get to Clear so you can get onto your OT Levels.
Exactly right.
Most Scientologists are working their whole lives to get onto these confidential levels.
What's called the OT Levels.
The Operating Thetan Levels.
This idea of what the OT Levels are, every Scientologist believes that they are going to achieve powers - that are beyond this world - Yes.
That they are going to be able to cause changes - in the world around you - In the physical universe.
- By projecting your - OT.
Intention, your OT powers, whatever.
And this goes to these success stories, because Scientology promotes this heavily, and puts out these "OT success stories".
Okay, let's hear some of these success stories, Mikey.
- Sorry.
- "The other day, "I was driving in the rain, "and the car in front of me stopped suddenly.
"I needed about three inches more to stop in, "so I pushed his car forward about three inches with pure intention" "This startled him considerably, but then it prevented any damage from occurring".
Mm.
"Also, I noticed that I can talk to my cats, "and have them do what I want them to do, which is almost more astounding".
What the fuck? The L.
Ron Hubbard Policy is you need to get to OT Three quick.
- Right.
- Because there's danger of being in the middle zone.
- Bruce, what is OT Three? - The OT Three is one of these auditing levels on the Bridge.
- That's confidential? - Very confidential.
You can't know about it until you get there.
Right.
They have the materials of OT Three in a briefcase that only you have the code to, and then I have to attach it to my body.
And if I go to the bathroom, that has to stay connected to my body.
They have scans on them, so if you were to ever leave the building, an alarm would go off.
You could be penalized for just taking the pack of the materials and not putting it in your case.
And you're in the course room.
Also, Scientologists are forced to sign an agreement that if we expose these confidential secrets to the universe, we will be fined $100,000.
The other thing which makes when you get to the OT Levels so kind of impressive is when you see OT Three, and it's L.
Ron Hubbard's writing.
- You're like - Oh, right.
"This is L.
Ron Hubbard.
This is his writing".
Bruce, what is OT Three? It's basically a type of exorcism.
You are removing from your body, or attached to you in some way, spiritual beings that are stuck there, and they're stuck there, because of an incident that happened 75 million years ago.
There was a place that looked like Earth, and these people were packaged up by this crazy galactic leader, Xenu.
And he wanted to control the population.
Boxed them up in boxes, threw 'em into space planes.
The the DC-8 airplane is the exact copy of the space plane of that day.
Started on other planets, came to Earth, which was called Teegeeack back in those days.
And they took these people, then they dumped them, and then they set off hydrogen bombs on the top of each primary volcano.
And when they blew up, it blew the Thetans into the air, and after tremendous winds of the planet, blew everything there was.
And that those people that were blown up are now what composes and makes up our bodies, right? Yeah.
- It's insane.
- Yeah.
But we all did it.
So my mother was pushing me, once I went Clear, to get to OT Three.
Just being a good mom.
Just being a good Scientology mom.
Not only did she push me to do it just okay But she requested that she'd be in the room when I read this for the first time.
- And you know why? - Why? 'Cause I thought you would leave at that point.
Okay, but let me show you what you were doing.
- Okay.
- Okay.
So I'm reading this for the first time, and I'm looking at her like this, and I go, "Are you fucking kidding me?" And you go, "Isn't that amazing?" But, Mom, didn't you think this was crazy? - Totally.
- But you wanted me to do it? I did.
Honestly, that's why I wanted to be with you, because I thought that would be it for you.
You would read that and go, - "What the hell am I doing here?" - Right.
Oh, they have another genius moment in Scientology, which is you cannot verify this, right? - Right.
- When I was Clear, I couldn't say to my mother, who was OT, "Mom, I saw some shit in 'TIME' Magazine about what OT Three is".
And she said, "I can't speak about it, I can't deny it, and I can't confirm it" "And you'll see when you get there".
L.
Ron Hubbard said that, "I am the only person "who has ever discovered this "and unlocked the secrets of this.
It nearly killed me".
I am very sure that I was the first one that ever did live through any attempt to attain that material.
This material I'm talking about, of course, is very upper level material, and you will forgive me if I don't describe it to you in very broad detail, because it's very likely to make you sick too.
That then became an edict in Scientology, that if someone who is not prepared, and has not reached this level up the Bridge, is exposed to this material, you are putting them in jeopardy.
Us revealing this to you might cause you cancer and pneumonia.
- Or they may even die.
- Right.
Even if you don't completely 100% believe that, - who's gonna take the risk - Of killing their friends - Of killing their friends.
- Or their daughter, yeah.
Right.
And it's really, very ingenious, because then you cannot find out.
Even if a Scientologist is told this, they can't find out, because when they go to someone, and it happened to me, or they're on TV, and Katie Couric says According to my research, L.
Ron Hubbard, the father of Scientology, claimed that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic ruler named Xenu killed billions of his people by sending them to Earth in space planes.
This is one of those things that gets spread around, one of those old stories that gets run around So he never wrote about that? No.
You won't find anything like that in any of these materials at all.
Oh, my God, I look like such a fool.
Whatever.
It was a lie, but it was a good lie, because it was a lie to prevent someone from dying.
- Right.
- Lying, lying, lying, and that's what Scientologists - Are taught to do.
- Believe, and what they think is the right thing to do.
The basic tenet of this Church of Scientology is to rid the body of space alien parasites, to clear oneself.
Um, well, John, does that sound silly to you? I I mean, I it's unrecognizable to me.
Let's go through OT Five.
Are you of the belief that on OT Five, that you were curing yourself of any illnesses that you had? Well, I used to think that, but I did it a lot on other people, and I thought, "Yeah, I'm helping them to resolve these physical troubles that they had".
So you were witness to people in Scientology saying, "I'm curing myself of cancer.
I'm curing myself of some serious illnesses".
And they believed that you were curing them? Right, and I can remember a number of people who said, "Ooh, I just cured my cancer," and then they died two months later.
You know, they were so convinced that they had.
And it's personal for me, 'cause my sister finished, and then she died of cancer at the age of 52.
She was kind of your model Scientologist in a way.
She was a trained auditor.
She was a trained CS.
She donated to the International Association of Scientologists.
Did all the stuff you're supposed to do.
But it certainly didn't work out for her.
Right.
When you're on the level of OT Seven, and it's called "The Level," that could take people ten or 20 years.
How long were you on OT Seven, Mom? - I would say about 18 years.
- Right.
So, OT Seven costs a person on average what? If it's $30,000 or $40,000 a year, if you're on it for ten years, that's $300,000 or $400,000 just for OT Seven.
And that does not include how much it costs for the course Which is OT Six, which that's another 20 grand.
And then, you also pay to have a case supervisor supervising your auditing - that entire time - Yeah.
So $300,000 or $400,000 just for OT Seven is not either unusual or overstated.
Then, on top of that, there are other things outside the Bridge.
You are required to have a membership to the International Association of Scientologists.
Books are being released over and over again.
Scientologists have to buy those books.
It's mandatory.
Those book packages are $3,000, - on top of the Bridge.
- On top of the Bridge.
How do you explain how people pay for this? I mean, you had a daughter who was paying your way, but The average Scientologist would take mortgages out on their homes, which we did also And they would get many credit cards, and max their credit cards out.
And live below their means.
And live below their means.
Now, Mom, when you got to OT Eight, you told me then that you were done with Scientology.
- Correct.
- Was that because OT Eight wasn't what you thought it was gonna be? It was nothing that I thought it would be.
Well, what did you think you were going I thought it was spiritual freedom - forever, forever.
- When I had talked to you, I go, "Is it everything that you wanted, Mom? Is it everything that you sacrificed your whole life for?" And you said "Not now, Leah" - Right.
- And I go, "Okay".
So, basically, what she was saying was, "No, I can't talk to you about it now, "because either they're listening, "or they're gonna keep me here if they know that I'm not happy".
- Exactly right.
- Yeah.
So this is from somebody who completed OT.
"I thought OT Eight was the end of the Bridge.
"It made sense to me that you created" - Created it.
- "Your own reactive mind".
- Exactly.
- "OT Eight cognition "is that your case was all made up by the Body Thetans, "that you were never that person" - Right.
- "That these Body Thetans were remembering as your past" - Right.
- "And at the top of the Bridge, "after parting with $1 million or more, you have" "You have re-achieved "the state of who and what you were "before you ever walk through the door of a Dianetic center or organization".
Right, that you're yourself.
- That you are yourself.
- Right, which is what I've been saying all along.
Well, doesn't any let me ask the cameramen.
Do you know, sir, that you are who you are? I absolutely do.
Interesting.
And you've never done any Scientology? - Not at all.
- We've just saved you millions.
Thank you.
What about you? Do you know that you are who you are? - Yeah.
- Not convincing.
I think you need some Scientology.
I mean, is that great It's just it's just What the fuck are you all staring at me for? Because that's why a lot of OT Eights left at that point.
Right.
"What are you staring at me for"? Because you are talking like this should be some sort of "oh, my God" moment, and it's so opposite from an "oh, my God" moment, it's like, "Yeah?" The truth of the matter is the end result of all of this is to be told, "Mm, wasn't any of that.
"You weren't any of those things.
Sorry.
"Now you get the chance to find out who you really are, "and that is now the final carrot.
"The final carrot is, "you will find out who you really are - on OT Nine" - That's correct.
- "And OT Ten" - Right.
That is so true.
But OT Nine and Ten do not exist.
Next, we're gonna be speaking to one of your auditors Ronit, who was a highly trained auditor.
She was a Sea Org member.
And then her husband, Yossi, was also a highly trained auditor as well.
I love that you're here.
I love you two.
Even though you left the organization of Scientology, you still believe in Scientology.
- Yeah.
- And you're still delivering Scientology outside of Scientology.
- You're still an auditor.
- Yes.
Yeah, I just wanted to show, this is very un-Scientology of us.
If I didn't believe, and I was speaking out against Scientology, - and you were in - Right.
We wouldn't be able to be sitting across from each other.
And so I thought it was important to show this is not Scientology.
We are allowed to have different beliefs.
I respect you, that you b still believe, and you respect us that we don't.
- Exactly.
- So thank you.
- Yep.
- Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
So, let's start with you.
Tell us your Scientology story.
How did you get into Scientology? - It's all his fault.
- It is, right? Yeah.
I met him New York in '84 And he was OT Four.
I met him through a mutual friend.
And I saw something different, that he was actually listening to me and acknowledging me, and it was amazing.
Right.
So you joined Sea Org - Yeah.
- And you became an auditor, - a highly trained auditor.
- Yeah, a class nine.
Yes.
And you also joined the Sea Org? Yes, I joined the Sea Org a little bit after her, because we all decided that's the greatest for the group.
Right, it was the best thing to do for you and your family - The best, yeah.
- To help mankind - That's correct.
- Through Scientology.
Now, I wanna talk to you guys, and I wanna bring you into this, but when did it start that people would get all the way up to OT Eight, let's say And then something began where they started now saying, "You have to go back down the Bridge"? That was like 2000, '99, 1999, 2000.
Right, so There's been a whole series of evolutions, where each time, it is, "We've discovered new material or notes from L.
Ron Hubbard that shows you all did it wrong" - Yeah.
- "Now, you're gonna pay us to now do it the way that we say that you need to do it now".
That's correct.
And this is the same thing happened with the books, "Evolution".
- Yes.
- Right.
The book, "Evolution," was the most ridiculous thing.
They found a comma not in the right place, or some word that somebody misspelled, and they had to redo all the books.
That means "Dianetics".
That means "Fundamental of Thought".
- All the basic books, yeah.
- All the basic books.
The transcriptionist, they really didn't know where to begin or end the sentence.
Specifically, here's where they weren't sure if it should be a comma or a period, and so they split the difference and used a semi-colon, which a good percentage of readers never understood in the first place.
And given one semi-colon begets another, it wasn't long before it was the march of the semi-colons, frustrating readers and lengthening lines to work theirs from one end of Scientology to another.
And then, what do you do? The entire staff of Sea Org had to sell those books to everybody, to everybody and themselves to each other.
We were trained at staff meetings to sell each other a package.
- Wow.
- It's not a cheap package.
No.
And then, how to sell to other, we had training.
Staff meetings became horrible.
It became a training drill - On how to sell? - On how to sell.
And everybody sells, auditor sells.
- CS's - They have to sell - Right, right.
- Everybody has to sell.
Instead of what it was when L.
Ron Hubbard was around, which is, there is always a new development that he would come out with.
When he died, there were no new developments to bring, so what do you do with someone that has done, in theory, everything up to that point? You've got to convince them that they need to go do something again, - or start at the beginning - Right.
And it has become instead of the Bridge up, it's become the Bridge around.
Now, Ronit, so, how long were you in the Sea Org - before you actually left? - Nine years.
And why did you leave? Because I start think things really going downwards, and the technology's being altered.
And basically, what I've seen, it's becoming all about, "Let's get another intensive.
Let's get another few thousand dollars".
Basically, money-motivated machine, instead of actually helping and practicing Scientology.
For me, it was how terribly Sea Org members are treated.
That in itself made me think, "I'm not free in this place.
I cannot have life".
So, why did we all stay? 'Cause we all thought it was gonna get better.
Yeah.
That's the short answer that's the true answer, I think, for everybody.
Yeah.
And eventually, you get to the point - where you realize, it isn't.
- Right.
So I kind of "No, I cannot take it anymore.
I cannot see my personal freedom," which I came to Scientology, to be free of things.
I became shackled.
So I couldn't stand it.
That was like I said, "Okay, if she wants to stay, fine.
If my kids want to stay, fine.
I'm not staying".
I said, "I'll do anything.
Just leave me alone.
I don't want to disconnect".
And So, one person said to me he said, "You won't ever be successful".
"You'll never be successful".
I knew it's wrong.
The other guy said, "You will never see your family," because I'm the worst person in the world.
I will never see my kids.
And I said, "No, it's not gonna happen".
I still don't know.
- It comes - It I know.
It comes, and it's still nightmarish, still today, 10 years after I left.
Yeah.
But you did make it.
- Yes.
- And you do have your family.
- And I do have my family.
- Mike was just talking about how he has nightmares about being back in the Sea Org - Oh, yeah.
- And, you know, I think we all take for granted like, being held prisoner is a pretty big deal, Mike.
You know, you guys were held in trailers, and nails put in, so that you guys didn't get out.
And I just think there's a lot of, like, trauma - Yeah, there is.
- Connected to what we've all been through, what Scientologists and Sea Org members have been through.
They take you absolute prisoner.
Your life, your spirituality, your freedom, they make you believe that without it, - you will be a failure - Yeah.
They make you believe without it, you will literally die.
My mother was taken from me for 15, 20 years, 'cause she was on OT Seven, but even that she was from my childhood, because she was on staff, and she was doing Scientology.
And that, I mean And that's kind of what I was doing when my daughter was born.
You know, I was doing my getting onto my OT Levels, and I was having to do a course that I had to be on-course from 8:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night, and so I was going down the same path in the beginning.
Thank God she's too young to remember.
But, you know, Scientology, it's like, you sacrifice everything, money, time, your family, your careers, - for this Bridge - Right.
And I hope that we have explained to people, don't waste your time.
- And thank you, Mom.
- Sure.
Listen, Mom, I know you have guilt, 'cause you have talked to me about this.
She's Jewish.
She has to have guilt.
Right, exactly.
Mom, I wouldn't be here without you.
Like, the whole thing and getting me into Scientology Oh, you're gonna make me cry.
No, but I think it was, like, for a purpose.
I look at all of our lives, and I go you know, we're all here now.
You have your amazing family intact.
You're now still helping people.
And you are.
And you're helping people by doing this.
But, Mom, it's from you but had I not gotten into it, I wouldn't be here now.
That's true.
I might have just been an average person.
We are moments away.
Very close to be starting.
The I'm being self-critical.
- Are you suppressing yourself? - I'm being self-critical.
You're gorgeous, Mike Rinder.
And quiet please.
All right, guys, we are good to roll.
- Okay.
Okay.
- We're good.
All right, we're rolling, guys.
- Get settled.
- Okay, quiet, please.
Quiet on set.
We're gonna be beginning.
And take it away.
Today, we're gonna talk about the Bridge to Total Freedom.
And I think it's pretty important for us to set up for our audience what the Bridge is and what Scientology is selling, and why people give up their children, their lives, their money for it.
This is a foundation of everything in Scientology.
It is a delineated path that every Scientologist must follow.
- Must follow? - Must.
Yeah.
And when you progress on these exact steps, you are supposed to achieve exact results.
There is precise abilities gained on this chart.
There are two sides to this Bridge.
One side is the auditing, which is the counseling - Counseling.
- That you receive.
And the other side is the training, which teaches you to be a Scientology auditor or counselor.
And every Scientologist seeks to arrive at the top of this Bridge.
We've built a Bridge, and we have this assembly of the Bridge, and the Bridge goes from this state of existence to the last state of existence.
And the Bridge is all complete now, and it can be walked.
You have to walk on the Bridge.
Really, the first thing that Scientologists hammer home is Dianetics.
"Dianetics" is considered the book one of the entire subject, and it is held in reverence by all Scientologists.
It is the foundation of everything that followed in Scientology.
What gets in the way of your goals? What destroys your confidence and blocks your happiness in life? Break through the barriers to your success.
Read "Dianetics" by L.
Ron Hubbard.
The theory of Dianetics is very clever.
It says, "Whatever your problems are, "whether you're upset, whether you have pains, "you have sensations, you have emotions "and things that you don't like, it's not your fault".
There is this reactive mind that you have.
That's below your conscious mind? - Awareness.
- Yes.
And that we have the answer of how you can eradicate that.
Dianetics reveals how these negative experiences are stored, and contains a technology to free yourself from them.
The idea then becomes that you can eradicate your reactive mind and become what's known in Scientology as a Clear.
Right.
And Clear in Scientology is the most important step - First step.
- To be achieved for everybody.
Yes, everybody's trying to get to Clear.
Now, as you process the individual, you find that he gets better and better and more able, but is there any end to this? Yes, it's a finite state known as Clear, and that means that the individual has erased his basic illness, which is his reactive mind.
His unconscious mind is gone, and he is totally alert and totally capable.
In order to help us navigate our way through the complexities of the Bridge in Scientology, we have a number of experts that are gonna join us today.
The first of which was a very highly trained auditor, and he held a very senior position in the Scientology hierarchy to oversee the people moving up the Bridge all over the world.
His name is Bruce Hines, and he was formally in what's called the Senior CS International Office of Scientology.
- Another silver fox - Yeah.
- Amongst us.
- Yeah, it's a thing, you know? It's a thing us old people have.
Yeah, well So, Bruce, give us a basic rundown of your history with Scientology.
So I started in Denver, Colorado in 1972, and then I joined the Sea Organization in 1979.
You were a Sea Org member for how many years? In your 24 years, what did you think you were attaining? That I would have perfect memory Wouldn't get sick very much, if at all.
Why did you think that? L.
Ron Hubbard says it over and over again.
This man sets himself up in Dianetics and Scientology is a science and it can be proven.
The reason Scientology's assumptions are can be considered to be true is because they work, and Scientology is totally a workable science.
He promised I would have supernatural abilities.
You know, I'd be able to move objects with my mind.
I'd be able to communicate with people telepathically.
That's what the big promise is.
So L.
Ron Hubbard is selling that and people are buying that, and that is what people believe, and that is why they stay.
Absolutely correct.
But had you ever seen anybody who had telepathic powers? - Or have you ever? - No, of course not.
I probably audited at least 15,000 hours on people, and when you audit someone, you get to know them well Right.
And never, never was there any supernatural ability that you could actually verify - from any of these people.
- Right.
I think it's pretty important for us to set up for our audience that you were forced to write success stories at each level that we complete.
And each Scientologist says, "Yes, that happened".
I mean, I did it, you did it.
You basically sign, saying, "I accomplished that thing".
But if you say, "I don't really feel like I accomplished that," you have to pay to now do something else to find out why you didn't achieve that.
Right, I People learn very quickly, though, Leah.
They learn it's smarter to go, "Oh, yeah, I achieved that".
I'm still asked how I got into Scientology.
I was brought into Scientology as a child.
And I think we should talk to the person who got me into Scientology.
I think that's an excellent idea.
And that's my mother.
A lot of times, people say, like, "I don't know how smart people got into these things".
People assume that you either have to be - stupid or just - Gullible - Gullible.
- Or in a bad place in life, - or something.
- Right.
So, Mom, when did you get into Scientology and why? I was 20 something years old, and I got into Scientology, because I always wanted to be a nurse.
I wanted to help.
And I was looking for something, and when I read "Dianetics," I said, "This is so important".
I said, "I could really help people here.
That's so much more valuable than being a nurse".
So I then started to train.
What did you read in "Dianetics" that made you think you can help people more doing Scientology on them - than being a nurse? - Okay, well, you talk about getting rid of the reactive mind will handle all kinds of health issues.
I thought, "Wow, no one will ever be sick again" - Right.
- "That's amazing".
By the way, there is a category of people that got into Scientology, like my mother in the '70s, that was looking for something more.
And my mother didn't have a mother and father.
They died when she was young.
And, you know, this is a "religion" that would speak to you, because it was offering you something to give back to the world.
Right, because I didn't really have anything.
It gave me a group And it gave me a purpose - Right.
- To help others, and I thought that was amazing, and I loved it in the beginning.
Right, and then so when you got in, what did you think about the state of Clear? That you don't have a reactive mind, that I would never be ill, and basically a very stable person.
You kinda think that that's the end-all.
- Clear? - Clear.
Right.
As a matter of fact, we should say that when Scientologists say we are clearing the planet, that's what they mean.
Scientology believes that if they got the majority of the planet up to Clear, that there would be no war, that there would be a peaceful planet, because the majority of the people making decisions would outweigh any of the bad.
And so that is what people say when they say, "We're clearing the planet," is trying to get the majority of the world - to Clear on the Bridge.
- Correct.
If we are going to make a sane world, and if we are going to clear this planet, we have to ask, "What are you going to do about it? What are you going to do with this planet?" What I think we should answer, or try to answer, is how do people get into Scientology? Because clearly, you know, some people at home are like, "I'd never fall for this shit".
And it's very clever, the way that it is done.
You start out in Scientology usually, if you haven't been raised in it, with doing a test.
On the street, it says "stress tests".
What is a stress test? A stress test is sitting down with an E-meter, and having someone locate an area of stress in your life using the E-meter, and that test is used to then tell you that Scientology has the answers for whatever your problems are.
It sets up that this E-meter, invented by L.
Ron Hubbard, is the thing to believe, and that's an important moment for a person to start to believe in this meter.
Absolutely.
The belief in the E-meter is an absolute requirement to progressing up the Bridge, because the E-meter is fundamental to all Scientology counseling.
No, I know, but what is that supposed to be doing to the person walking down the street - of Hollywood Boulevard? - Finding a ruin.
- What does that mean? - That means finding something that the person has in their life that they want to improve, and then telling them, "Scientology has the answer to that.
"And look, we have this little course here, "and this little course teaches you "how to deal with your finances.
"Or this little course teaches you "how to handle your children.
"Or this little one teaches you how to have a better marriage".
Whatever it is, there is a little course that is, you know, $35 or 100 bucks or something, that is giving something that you feel has some value to you.
Then, you get told, "Well, if you got something out of that, then there is more to come.
There's a lot more to come".
But the initial courses that you take and the introductory things that you do in Scientology don't progress you on one of the steps on the Bridge.
On the Bridge.
And everything is, "Get onto the Bridge".
- Right, right.
- Upwards, yeah.
Like, the carrot drives you up the Bridge.
This is not just the newest, shiniest car.
This is not just the fastest computer.
This is where you are operating at a level that is beyond what anybody has ever seen or even contemplated on planet Earth - Right.
- Literally.
I think also what's important to set up about the Bridge is how they get the money.
The Department of Registration.
- Right.
- A registrar, best way to describe it is he's basically a salesman.
It's a sales function, 'kay? People come into the organization, and they need to get service.
Service costs money.
The registrar works out how they get it paid for.
Their job is to just get money - Gross income.
- Period.
And they say, "Your first step is this".
And they decide that you need a certain amount of what's called intensives.
There is no wall of separation between the making of money and the moving people up the Bridge anywhere.
Right.
So, the minimum, I would say, that it would take to get from "raw meat," as they call it, to the top of the Bridge, I'm saying, it's $300,000, easy.
$250,000, $300,000.
Okay, so that's the Bridge, right? So, the registrar, they're trained on how to extract the money from the parishioner.
Like a car dealership, sitting there, working the phones, and they have listening devices, and their bosses are calling them, saying, "Bullshit, they have the money".
Right.
Sometimes, I would get a call and say, "Bruce, go to the Reg's Office".
And so, I appear, and the Reg's Office is sort of a technical authority expert, and they'd be working on somebody to get him to pay money.
And they'd say, "So, Bruce "this level here that he's looking at doing, you know, how would this help him?" And so, I would say, "Whatever".
And they're lead to believe that the Case Supervisor's totally impartial - Right.
- When it's not true.
It's absolutely not true.
That would help convince a guy to, you know, run another credit card or whatever.
Now, next we wanna talk about going up the Bridge, and that is what everybody is doing in Scientology.
So Bruce would be my auditor.
Auditing is the process of asking specifically worded questions designed to help you find and handle areas of distress.
This is done with an auditor, meaning one who listens.
So, let's do Grade Zero here.
These are the kinds of questions asked on Grade Zero.
And this is all done on E-meter? - Okay.
- Yeah, so this is one of - about 50 processes.
- Yeah.
Yeah.
"Recall another's communication with you".
My daughter talking to me about how she wants to buy a bigger television.
Very good.
"Recall another's no-communication with you.
My mother wouldn't take my calls.
All right.
"Recall another's communication with you".
Mike told me that I looked lovely in dresses.
- Very good.
- That's true.
"Recall another's no-communication with you".
Mike said he was tired and he'll call me tomorrow.
- All right.
- And we go through all of this, and then at the end of Grade Zero, I'm supposed to just say, "I feel like I could speak freely with anyone"? Yeah, somewhere along the line, there would be things to that effect.
And how long would this take, like, to complete Grade Zero? Well, of course, it varies, but, say, 25 hours.
25 hours.
And that would be roughly how much money, just for Grade Zero? - 10 grand.
- 10 grand? $5,000 for a 121/2 hour intensive is a pretty pretty conservative estimate.
Okay.
So what's next? You have to go sit down and provide a success story.
- You talked about that.
- Right.
Have you ever in your career in Scientology ever had a person say, "I did not achieve these things.
- It's a lie"? - Yeah.
- And what happened? - They got declared.
- So they got expelled? - So, basically, it's one of the things that L.
Ron Hubbard wrote.
- Right.
- If you don't experience gains from auditing, the only people that can't experience gain are SPs, or Suppressive People.
So they pay all their money.
They get to it, and they say, "Hey, these things didn't happen.
This is bullshit".
And so L.
Ron Hubbard has he made sure that there was an answer for that.
"It didn't work on you because you're an evil person".
Yeah, it's nothing to do with his technology.
There's nothing wrong with it.
There's something wrong with you? - Yeah.
- The paying customer.
Yeah.
All right, write a success story Yep.
And I'm moving on up the Bridge? - Yep.
- Moving on up! Then I go to Grade One.
Ability to recognize the source of problems - and make them vanish.
- Correct.
So, how would we go about doing that, Bruce? Leah, we're gonna run the next process.
Okay.
"Who has failed to control you?" - My mother.
- Thank you.
"Who has failed to control you?" My mother.
Good.
"Who has failed to control you?" Should I pick another answer? - If you like.
- Do whatever you want.
- Mike.
- Thank you.
Okay, so, I go through this, and what's the realization here? - It's whatever you realize.
- So it doesn't matter? It doesn't mean anything right now, but there's another 50 processes that are coming.
But how do I make my problems vanish? Well, all you need to do is decide you're not gonna have any problems, or you can handle your problems, whatever Okay, how long does this take, Bruce, roughly? - Similar.
- Similar.
So another $10,000? Another four to six weeks - Going in every day? - Yeah, very possibly.
Okay.
Then we get to Grade Two.
It's relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
- What is that? - Various worded ways to get you to tell the bad stuff you've done and the stuff you're not willing to talk about.
So give me some of the questions here.
All right.
"Tell me some things you think you should not have done to another".
Oh.
That'd be a long day.
Well, tell me some.
Uh, okay, I yelled at some people today.
I maybe wasn't very nice to people today.
And I cheated on my diet.
- Okay, thank you.
- You're welcome.
"Tell me some things you think you should not have done to another".
You need more? Yes, this is a repetitive process.
Oh, so I gotta just say all of this - until my needle floats? - Yeah.
What does that usually take, time-wise? As I recall, Zero, One, and Two were pretty much similar lengths.
Three and Four tended to be a little shorter - Okay.
- Maybe at One, you know, 121/2 hours.
So we're talking $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, about $40,000 so far here.
- Something like that.
- Okay.
The first major part of this Bridge is Clear.
How long did it take you to get to Clear? It took about, I would say, two years.
Did you feel, when you got to the state of Clear, that you had achieved what Dianetics had promised? Okay, at that point, I thought I did.
I honestly thought I did.
You believed that you were keeping sickness - away from yourself - Yes.
- Per Dianetics? - Yes, per Dianetics.
- Right, 'cause it's a science.
- Exactly right.
Did you think, "Well, there's something better anyway.
Like, I'm still not OT, so maybe" Of course, you always think there's something else.
You're always looking for the next level.
- It's what we all say - Right.
It's, "We might not have achieved those things, "but we were cool with it, because there was other stuff that was gonna be better" Yes.
Do what you have to do to get to Clear so you can get onto your OT Levels.
Exactly right.
Most Scientologists are working their whole lives to get onto these confidential levels.
What's called the OT Levels.
The Operating Thetan Levels.
This idea of what the OT Levels are, every Scientologist believes that they are going to achieve powers - that are beyond this world - Yes.
That they are going to be able to cause changes - in the world around you - In the physical universe.
- By projecting your - OT.
Intention, your OT powers, whatever.
And this goes to these success stories, because Scientology promotes this heavily, and puts out these "OT success stories".
Okay, let's hear some of these success stories, Mikey.
- Sorry.
- "The other day, "I was driving in the rain, "and the car in front of me stopped suddenly.
"I needed about three inches more to stop in, "so I pushed his car forward about three inches with pure intention" "This startled him considerably, but then it prevented any damage from occurring".
Mm.
"Also, I noticed that I can talk to my cats, "and have them do what I want them to do, which is almost more astounding".
What the fuck? The L.
Ron Hubbard Policy is you need to get to OT Three quick.
- Right.
- Because there's danger of being in the middle zone.
- Bruce, what is OT Three? - The OT Three is one of these auditing levels on the Bridge.
- That's confidential? - Very confidential.
You can't know about it until you get there.
Right.
They have the materials of OT Three in a briefcase that only you have the code to, and then I have to attach it to my body.
And if I go to the bathroom, that has to stay connected to my body.
They have scans on them, so if you were to ever leave the building, an alarm would go off.
You could be penalized for just taking the pack of the materials and not putting it in your case.
And you're in the course room.
Also, Scientologists are forced to sign an agreement that if we expose these confidential secrets to the universe, we will be fined $100,000.
The other thing which makes when you get to the OT Levels so kind of impressive is when you see OT Three, and it's L.
Ron Hubbard's writing.
- You're like - Oh, right.
"This is L.
Ron Hubbard.
This is his writing".
Bruce, what is OT Three? It's basically a type of exorcism.
You are removing from your body, or attached to you in some way, spiritual beings that are stuck there, and they're stuck there, because of an incident that happened 75 million years ago.
There was a place that looked like Earth, and these people were packaged up by this crazy galactic leader, Xenu.
And he wanted to control the population.
Boxed them up in boxes, threw 'em into space planes.
The the DC-8 airplane is the exact copy of the space plane of that day.
Started on other planets, came to Earth, which was called Teegeeack back in those days.
And they took these people, then they dumped them, and then they set off hydrogen bombs on the top of each primary volcano.
And when they blew up, it blew the Thetans into the air, and after tremendous winds of the planet, blew everything there was.
And that those people that were blown up are now what composes and makes up our bodies, right? Yeah.
- It's insane.
- Yeah.
But we all did it.
So my mother was pushing me, once I went Clear, to get to OT Three.
Just being a good mom.
Just being a good Scientology mom.
Not only did she push me to do it just okay But she requested that she'd be in the room when I read this for the first time.
- And you know why? - Why? 'Cause I thought you would leave at that point.
Okay, but let me show you what you were doing.
- Okay.
- Okay.
So I'm reading this for the first time, and I'm looking at her like this, and I go, "Are you fucking kidding me?" And you go, "Isn't that amazing?" But, Mom, didn't you think this was crazy? - Totally.
- But you wanted me to do it? I did.
Honestly, that's why I wanted to be with you, because I thought that would be it for you.
You would read that and go, - "What the hell am I doing here?" - Right.
Oh, they have another genius moment in Scientology, which is you cannot verify this, right? - Right.
- When I was Clear, I couldn't say to my mother, who was OT, "Mom, I saw some shit in 'TIME' Magazine about what OT Three is".
And she said, "I can't speak about it, I can't deny it, and I can't confirm it" "And you'll see when you get there".
L.
Ron Hubbard said that, "I am the only person "who has ever discovered this "and unlocked the secrets of this.
It nearly killed me".
I am very sure that I was the first one that ever did live through any attempt to attain that material.
This material I'm talking about, of course, is very upper level material, and you will forgive me if I don't describe it to you in very broad detail, because it's very likely to make you sick too.
That then became an edict in Scientology, that if someone who is not prepared, and has not reached this level up the Bridge, is exposed to this material, you are putting them in jeopardy.
Us revealing this to you might cause you cancer and pneumonia.
- Or they may even die.
- Right.
Even if you don't completely 100% believe that, - who's gonna take the risk - Of killing their friends - Of killing their friends.
- Or their daughter, yeah.
Right.
And it's really, very ingenious, because then you cannot find out.
Even if a Scientologist is told this, they can't find out, because when they go to someone, and it happened to me, or they're on TV, and Katie Couric says According to my research, L.
Ron Hubbard, the father of Scientology, claimed that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic ruler named Xenu killed billions of his people by sending them to Earth in space planes.
This is one of those things that gets spread around, one of those old stories that gets run around So he never wrote about that? No.
You won't find anything like that in any of these materials at all.
Oh, my God, I look like such a fool.
Whatever.
It was a lie, but it was a good lie, because it was a lie to prevent someone from dying.
- Right.
- Lying, lying, lying, and that's what Scientologists - Are taught to do.
- Believe, and what they think is the right thing to do.
The basic tenet of this Church of Scientology is to rid the body of space alien parasites, to clear oneself.
Um, well, John, does that sound silly to you? I I mean, I it's unrecognizable to me.
Let's go through OT Five.
Are you of the belief that on OT Five, that you were curing yourself of any illnesses that you had? Well, I used to think that, but I did it a lot on other people, and I thought, "Yeah, I'm helping them to resolve these physical troubles that they had".
So you were witness to people in Scientology saying, "I'm curing myself of cancer.
I'm curing myself of some serious illnesses".
And they believed that you were curing them? Right, and I can remember a number of people who said, "Ooh, I just cured my cancer," and then they died two months later.
You know, they were so convinced that they had.
And it's personal for me, 'cause my sister finished, and then she died of cancer at the age of 52.
She was kind of your model Scientologist in a way.
She was a trained auditor.
She was a trained CS.
She donated to the International Association of Scientologists.
Did all the stuff you're supposed to do.
But it certainly didn't work out for her.
Right.
When you're on the level of OT Seven, and it's called "The Level," that could take people ten or 20 years.
How long were you on OT Seven, Mom? - I would say about 18 years.
- Right.
So, OT Seven costs a person on average what? If it's $30,000 or $40,000 a year, if you're on it for ten years, that's $300,000 or $400,000 just for OT Seven.
And that does not include how much it costs for the course Which is OT Six, which that's another 20 grand.
And then, you also pay to have a case supervisor supervising your auditing - that entire time - Yeah.
So $300,000 or $400,000 just for OT Seven is not either unusual or overstated.
Then, on top of that, there are other things outside the Bridge.
You are required to have a membership to the International Association of Scientologists.
Books are being released over and over again.
Scientologists have to buy those books.
It's mandatory.
Those book packages are $3,000, - on top of the Bridge.
- On top of the Bridge.
How do you explain how people pay for this? I mean, you had a daughter who was paying your way, but The average Scientologist would take mortgages out on their homes, which we did also And they would get many credit cards, and max their credit cards out.
And live below their means.
And live below their means.
Now, Mom, when you got to OT Eight, you told me then that you were done with Scientology.
- Correct.
- Was that because OT Eight wasn't what you thought it was gonna be? It was nothing that I thought it would be.
Well, what did you think you were going I thought it was spiritual freedom - forever, forever.
- When I had talked to you, I go, "Is it everything that you wanted, Mom? Is it everything that you sacrificed your whole life for?" And you said "Not now, Leah" - Right.
- And I go, "Okay".
So, basically, what she was saying was, "No, I can't talk to you about it now, "because either they're listening, "or they're gonna keep me here if they know that I'm not happy".
- Exactly right.
- Yeah.
So this is from somebody who completed OT.
"I thought OT Eight was the end of the Bridge.
"It made sense to me that you created" - Created it.
- "Your own reactive mind".
- Exactly.
- "OT Eight cognition "is that your case was all made up by the Body Thetans, "that you were never that person" - Right.
- "That these Body Thetans were remembering as your past" - Right.
- "And at the top of the Bridge, "after parting with $1 million or more, you have" "You have re-achieved "the state of who and what you were "before you ever walk through the door of a Dianetic center or organization".
Right, that you're yourself.
- That you are yourself.
- Right, which is what I've been saying all along.
Well, doesn't any let me ask the cameramen.
Do you know, sir, that you are who you are? I absolutely do.
Interesting.
And you've never done any Scientology? - Not at all.
- We've just saved you millions.
Thank you.
What about you? Do you know that you are who you are? - Yeah.
- Not convincing.
I think you need some Scientology.
I mean, is that great It's just it's just What the fuck are you all staring at me for? Because that's why a lot of OT Eights left at that point.
Right.
"What are you staring at me for"? Because you are talking like this should be some sort of "oh, my God" moment, and it's so opposite from an "oh, my God" moment, it's like, "Yeah?" The truth of the matter is the end result of all of this is to be told, "Mm, wasn't any of that.
"You weren't any of those things.
Sorry.
"Now you get the chance to find out who you really are, "and that is now the final carrot.
"The final carrot is, "you will find out who you really are - on OT Nine" - That's correct.
- "And OT Ten" - Right.
That is so true.
But OT Nine and Ten do not exist.
Next, we're gonna be speaking to one of your auditors Ronit, who was a highly trained auditor.
She was a Sea Org member.
And then her husband, Yossi, was also a highly trained auditor as well.
I love that you're here.
I love you two.
Even though you left the organization of Scientology, you still believe in Scientology.
- Yeah.
- And you're still delivering Scientology outside of Scientology.
- You're still an auditor.
- Yes.
Yeah, I just wanted to show, this is very un-Scientology of us.
If I didn't believe, and I was speaking out against Scientology, - and you were in - Right.
We wouldn't be able to be sitting across from each other.
And so I thought it was important to show this is not Scientology.
We are allowed to have different beliefs.
I respect you, that you b still believe, and you respect us that we don't.
- Exactly.
- So thank you.
- Yep.
- Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
So, let's start with you.
Tell us your Scientology story.
How did you get into Scientology? - It's all his fault.
- It is, right? Yeah.
I met him New York in '84 And he was OT Four.
I met him through a mutual friend.
And I saw something different, that he was actually listening to me and acknowledging me, and it was amazing.
Right.
So you joined Sea Org - Yeah.
- And you became an auditor, - a highly trained auditor.
- Yeah, a class nine.
Yes.
And you also joined the Sea Org? Yes, I joined the Sea Org a little bit after her, because we all decided that's the greatest for the group.
Right, it was the best thing to do for you and your family - The best, yeah.
- To help mankind - That's correct.
- Through Scientology.
Now, I wanna talk to you guys, and I wanna bring you into this, but when did it start that people would get all the way up to OT Eight, let's say And then something began where they started now saying, "You have to go back down the Bridge"? That was like 2000, '99, 1999, 2000.
Right, so There's been a whole series of evolutions, where each time, it is, "We've discovered new material or notes from L.
Ron Hubbard that shows you all did it wrong" - Yeah.
- "Now, you're gonna pay us to now do it the way that we say that you need to do it now".
That's correct.
And this is the same thing happened with the books, "Evolution".
- Yes.
- Right.
The book, "Evolution," was the most ridiculous thing.
They found a comma not in the right place, or some word that somebody misspelled, and they had to redo all the books.
That means "Dianetics".
That means "Fundamental of Thought".
- All the basic books, yeah.
- All the basic books.
The transcriptionist, they really didn't know where to begin or end the sentence.
Specifically, here's where they weren't sure if it should be a comma or a period, and so they split the difference and used a semi-colon, which a good percentage of readers never understood in the first place.
And given one semi-colon begets another, it wasn't long before it was the march of the semi-colons, frustrating readers and lengthening lines to work theirs from one end of Scientology to another.
And then, what do you do? The entire staff of Sea Org had to sell those books to everybody, to everybody and themselves to each other.
We were trained at staff meetings to sell each other a package.
- Wow.
- It's not a cheap package.
No.
And then, how to sell to other, we had training.
Staff meetings became horrible.
It became a training drill - On how to sell? - On how to sell.
And everybody sells, auditor sells.
- CS's - They have to sell - Right, right.
- Everybody has to sell.
Instead of what it was when L.
Ron Hubbard was around, which is, there is always a new development that he would come out with.
When he died, there were no new developments to bring, so what do you do with someone that has done, in theory, everything up to that point? You've got to convince them that they need to go do something again, - or start at the beginning - Right.
And it has become instead of the Bridge up, it's become the Bridge around.
Now, Ronit, so, how long were you in the Sea Org - before you actually left? - Nine years.
And why did you leave? Because I start think things really going downwards, and the technology's being altered.
And basically, what I've seen, it's becoming all about, "Let's get another intensive.
Let's get another few thousand dollars".
Basically, money-motivated machine, instead of actually helping and practicing Scientology.
For me, it was how terribly Sea Org members are treated.
That in itself made me think, "I'm not free in this place.
I cannot have life".
So, why did we all stay? 'Cause we all thought it was gonna get better.
Yeah.
That's the short answer that's the true answer, I think, for everybody.
Yeah.
And eventually, you get to the point - where you realize, it isn't.
- Right.
So I kind of "No, I cannot take it anymore.
I cannot see my personal freedom," which I came to Scientology, to be free of things.
I became shackled.
So I couldn't stand it.
That was like I said, "Okay, if she wants to stay, fine.
If my kids want to stay, fine.
I'm not staying".
I said, "I'll do anything.
Just leave me alone.
I don't want to disconnect".
And So, one person said to me he said, "You won't ever be successful".
"You'll never be successful".
I knew it's wrong.
The other guy said, "You will never see your family," because I'm the worst person in the world.
I will never see my kids.
And I said, "No, it's not gonna happen".
I still don't know.
- It comes - It I know.
It comes, and it's still nightmarish, still today, 10 years after I left.
Yeah.
But you did make it.
- Yes.
- And you do have your family.
- And I do have my family.
- Mike was just talking about how he has nightmares about being back in the Sea Org - Oh, yeah.
- And, you know, I think we all take for granted like, being held prisoner is a pretty big deal, Mike.
You know, you guys were held in trailers, and nails put in, so that you guys didn't get out.
And I just think there's a lot of, like, trauma - Yeah, there is.
- Connected to what we've all been through, what Scientologists and Sea Org members have been through.
They take you absolute prisoner.
Your life, your spirituality, your freedom, they make you believe that without it, - you will be a failure - Yeah.
They make you believe without it, you will literally die.
My mother was taken from me for 15, 20 years, 'cause she was on OT Seven, but even that she was from my childhood, because she was on staff, and she was doing Scientology.
And that, I mean And that's kind of what I was doing when my daughter was born.
You know, I was doing my getting onto my OT Levels, and I was having to do a course that I had to be on-course from 8:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night, and so I was going down the same path in the beginning.
Thank God she's too young to remember.
But, you know, Scientology, it's like, you sacrifice everything, money, time, your family, your careers, - for this Bridge - Right.
And I hope that we have explained to people, don't waste your time.
- And thank you, Mom.
- Sure.
Listen, Mom, I know you have guilt, 'cause you have talked to me about this.
She's Jewish.
She has to have guilt.
Right, exactly.
Mom, I wouldn't be here without you.
Like, the whole thing and getting me into Scientology Oh, you're gonna make me cry.
No, but I think it was, like, for a purpose.
I look at all of our lives, and I go you know, we're all here now.
You have your amazing family intact.
You're now still helping people.
And you are.
And you're helping people by doing this.
But, Mom, it's from you but had I not gotten into it, I wouldn't be here now.
That's true.
I might have just been an average person.