13 Reasons Why (2017) s02e90 Episode Script

1 13 Reasons Why has been a catalyst for conversation ever since its explosive debut.
Centering on the aftermath of Hannah Baker's suicide, the series confronts issues that young adults face in real life.
Up next, we've reunited the show's cast, writers, producers, and various experts to break down the themes, characters, and storylines of season 2, along with real fans.
Since day one, we've heard from so many of you who have been touched and affected by this series.
Parents, educators, and young adults have begun a new dialogue prompting many of you to share your own struggles for the very first time.
If you or someone that you know needs help, please go to 13ReasonsWhy.
info to find local resources.
Thank you for joining this important discussion.
And be warned, all of the season 2 spoilers are just ahead - as we go Beyond The Reasons.
- [APPLAUSE.]
[WELTEROTH.]
Up first, we discuss the theme of intervention.
Social pressures deeply affect every teenager.
What the fuck is wrong with you? [WELTEROTH.]
In season 2, Clay and Tony find Justin living on the streets, addicted to heroin, haunted by the role he played in Jessica's sexual assault.
She fucking hates me, okay? No, she doesn't.
She wants you to come back.
They intervene once again when Tyler Down, a victim of bullying, social isolation, and sexual assault, turns, in his darkest moment, to the most terrifying act of violence possible.
[GUN COCKS.]
I don't want you to die.
- Welcome, everyone.
- [SIGHS.]
Thanks.
For our first panel, we are joined by Miles Heizer, Dylan Minnette, Christian Navarro, executive producer Brian Yorkey, series writer Nic Sheff, and series consultant Dr.
Rebecca Hedrick.
Thank you all for being here.
We have a lot to unpack with this first topic.
Tyler's storyline might be the most frightening thing that we have seen yet on this show, but it is so important because we wanna understand acts of violence and really where they come from.
Go home.
No, no.
I Don't don't do this Tyler.
There's nothing else I can do.
[WELTEROTH.]
Clay steps in as Tyler is about to make a life-altering decision.
So, Dylan, what do you think made him intervene? Clay sees a lot of himself in Tyler, and vice versa, because I think they both feel like the world is out to get them, that they both can't find happiness.
And I think that he does understand the pain that Tyler would be going through, I think is why he immediately tries to jump to action.
So, Dr.
Hedrick, what Clay did was actually really dangerous.
His intentions were good, as always, but what were some better choices that he could have made in that same situation? So, yeah, the safest choice would've been to um, go behind the doors, and lock himself in with the rest of the kids, and help everybody get to safety, to hide in closets, or behind objects, and make sure that someone has called 911.
Certainly, we would never advise anyone who's exposed to an active shooter to confront them, even if it's a loved one.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
- We would advise to get away.
Mm-hmm.
So, Christian, your character, Tony, plays such a pivotal role in this moment.
So, despite Tony's probation, he helps Clay save Tyler.
Why is Tony so willing to risk his own life and his freedom to intervene here? Tony is made up of Certainly, a part of his personality is this moral sense of justice.
And he finds in Clay someone who has, possibly, a greater sense of justice, and a greater sense of morality, and someone who is willing to act on it.
Tony is quick to jump to action simply because Clay asks.
- And it's the right thing to do.
- [WELTEROTH.]
All right.
So, after Tyler's first awful day back at school, we see his mom come in and check on him, and ask him how his first day was.
- How was the first day back? - Good.
It was good.
It was, um like I had to adjust to everything, but it was great.
He doesn't tell her what he has just been through.
- Why is that? - Tyler is a victim of sexual assault, and I think that in many ways it's even harder for a young man, um, who's been violated in that way to admit it.
And I think at the point that Tyler's mom comes in and asks him how his day was, he doesn't have the slightest ability to begin to tell her what's really wrong.
That doesn't even seem an option to him.
There's a statistic that one in six men have been sexually assaulted, and there's a really great website, 1in6.
org, that has a lot of resources for male victims.
I think it's much harder for male victims because, as Brian was saying, it's just it's a lot more difficult for boys and men to talk about being the victim, because they have the same shame and guilt and fear that women and girls have, who are victims, but it also brings into question their own sense of masculinity and manhood, and they're supposed to be strong protectors, and, um, it makes them question everything.
It's important to remind ourselves that most crimes of sexual assault are not sex crimes, they're crimes of violence.
We've found that this kind of thing happens in high schools across America, particularly with athletes violating other students with mop handles and pool cues.
And there's almost at epidemic levels.
It's not something that's reported often.
Male-on-male sexual assault is is ridiculously underreported.
Men don't like to talk about it.
It's an incredibly difficult thing to talk about.
People are terrified to open up about those kinds of things.
And I've had people open up to me about similar situations happening to them and you can see the, like, the pain and almost shame that they experience talking about something that they should have no shame talking about.
That was not their doing.
They had nothing to do with it.
And I think that if it can open up that conversation for someone, I think that's really valuable.
And I hope that talking about it can allow that for people.
[WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
So, Brian, what made you decide to shoot Tyler's sexual assault scene in such a graphic way? It was important for us to try to bring the audience over to Tyler's side a little bit.
There's a concept called "radical empathy" which is, um, essentially the exercise or the attempt to empathize with someone completely, and someone who is completely different from you.
And as brutal as that scene is to watch, I defy anybody to watch it - and not feel pain for Tyler.
- Mm-hmm.
So whereas previously you may have been able to distance yourself from him and say he's a loner, he's a peeping Tom, he's a nerd, in that moment, you are right there with him and feeling pain.
And from that moment on, it's impossible to forget - that you shared humanity with him.
- Yeah.
There's [CLEARS THROAT.]
I mean, there's no way to prepare yourself for that kind of scene.
Um and You know, it's I'm at a loss for words, 'cause it was extremely difficult for me to watch and, um, and I knew it was coming.
So, I You know, I can't I'm sure it's gonna affect people in different ways.
And I think that it's it's No matter what the circumstance, no matter who it is, um, it's an extremely painful thing to watch.
You don't want it to happen to anyone, or I hope you wouldn't want it to happen to anyone.
The most heartbreaking component of that scene, for me, is how hard he's trying to implement all of the new tools he has, and to really bridge a gap between himself and this antagonist.
And, I mean, that to me more so than the sexual assault - It's obviously horrible.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Right.
So I should mention, Devin Druid, who plays Tyler, and did a phenomenal job with that role, is off shooting a movie, so he couldn't be here with us today, but we should all give him a round of applause for the phenomenal performance that he gave.
You know, we hear this term, "Hurt people hurt people.
" And right now, in our country, we're talking a lot about gun violence and how it affects every kind of community.
But particularly in the wake of Parkland, I think watching that scene, and then seeing how he ended up carrying out his version of revenge, I think it's almost impossible once you reach that state of empathy for a character like Tyler to not look, to sort of begin to understand how someone even arrives at something so unthinkable.
Unfortunately, there are many, many cases of school shootings over the past 25 years in the United States.
And there's a tremendous amount of damage in the life stories of people who commit atrocities like those.
There's a tremendous amount of hurt, and that doesn't excuse what they do for a millisecond.
But long before a gun gets into anyone's hands, we need to be taking care of each other, and looking out for people who are hurting, and trying to find ways for them to cope with that hurt, and express that hurt in ways that aren't damaging, and that don't compound and repeat the hurt.
[WELTEROTH.]
Yeah.
All right.
So, turning to Justin, and the way Clay and Tony intervene with him.
Justin falls into a major tailspin over his part in Jessica's assault, and eventually falling into heroin addiction, where his friends find him in the streets.
So, Nic, you were involved with writing Justin's arc this season.
Why did this make sense for this character? Um, I think, you know, for Justin, he'd experienced all this pain, uh, and, you know, guilt, an incredible amount of guilt.
And so much of the opiate epidemic, it's so much about, like, blotting out pain, and not wanting to feel things, and it just felt like, for Justin, that was something that was gonna be really attractive to him.
You've written and spoken about your own struggles with recovering from addiction in the past.
How did you help Brandon prepare for this role as an addict? You know, it was actually just an amazing experience.
Uh, Brandon is such a great actor.
I took him to a methadone clinic, uh, here in Los Angeles.
Brandon got to see, you know, the physicality of someone who is a heroin addict.
And also just get a sense of sort of the emotional world of someone in the grips of addiction like that.
[MINNETTE.]
You know, I wasn't really prepared for what his performance would be like, or how he'd be acting going into those scenes, but I also didn't really want to be because Clay wouldn't be either.
- Mm.
- Um I don't think anyone is fully prepared to try and detox someone in their room because that I mean, that's [STAMMERS.]
You know, you shouldn't do that.
But, like, you know, you should seek professional help.
For me, I just Having gone through it, like, there's nothing glamorous about addiction.
There's nothing pretty about it at all, so, to me, I think just We wanted to show the reality of it, which is that it's not glamorous.
It's gross.
[CHUCKLES.]
And, um, I think we did that pretty well.
- Yeah.
It was pretty gross.
- Yeah.
It was pretty gross.
[MINNETTE.]
A lot of puke in my room.
- [WELTEROTH.]
A lot.
- A lot.
All right.
Let's open up to audience Q and A.
Who has a question? Hey, guys.
My name is Jordan.
And my question is, do you believe media contributes to gun violence and how do you go about portraying the teen characters and their access to and use of guns without glorifying it? Hmm.
That's a great question.
In portraying guns in a piece of popular entertainment, I think you do really have to do some soul-searching about whether what you're doing is glamorizing guns and gun use, and if it's contributing to the problem or trying to contribute to a solution.
And again, as we mentioned earlier, I think people looking at the second season of 13 Reasons Why will have different opinions about whether we're, um, addressing possible solutions or contributing to a problem, and that's fair, and that's why you make things.
You make things for people to have opinions, for people to disagree about, for people to argue about.
We always tried to be very aware of why and how each individual character would get a gun.
We were asked early on in season 1, when we had the scene with Tyler with the trunk full of guns, we were asked, "Is this really realistic that a teen would be able to have these guns and build the pipe bombs?" And so, we sat down with the people asking the question and walked them through, for instance, how the Columbine killers got a hold of all the guns they did.
And, in fact, um, the arsenal that Tyler has in season 1 is very much designed after the arsenal that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had, and had access to, and bought mostly legally.
And from there, I think the question of whether or not we should portray guns at all is a worthwhile question to talk about.
And to me, it also goes back to the question of, well, not portraying it doesn't make it go away, and not telling the story doesn't mean that it's not happening in society.
It just means we're not talking about it.
Teenagers are emotional and impulsive.
And that's not a very good combination to have for somebody holding a weapon that's that easily, um leads to death.
And I was really moved that Justin was finally the voice of reason and showed the audience that you can walk to the edge without going over it.
Mm.
Well, thank you all so much for being here.
Thank you for everything you've contributed.
Thank you so much for your question.
Moving on.
In season 2, the search for justice connects everything and everyone.
Hannah's parents face-off against the school in an excruciating trial, while her friends continue to seek justice on their own terms.
- Bryce Walker? - Yes.
You're under arrest for felony sexual assault.
[WELTEROTH.]
And Bryce Walker finally has his day in court.
Though, the results are not what anyone hoped.
- Welcome, everyone.
- Good to be here.
Joining us now, we have Justin Prentice, Alisha Boe, and series consultant Carrie Goldberg.
All right, Justin, we're gonna bring you in.
- Gonna bring you into this.
- Okay.
Okay.
What has it been like to play Bryce Walker? [CHUCKLES.]
Well, he's the villain, obviously, which which I signed up for.
I knew that kind of going in.
As an actor, it's rewarding to play roles that aren't yourself.
I think, in season 2, we really see kind of more of how he is the way he is.
It certainly doesn't justify anything that Bryce does.
He is a monster, and he has monstrous acts.
But I think it is neat to kind of piece together the complexities of this monster essence.
I will say it's terrifying because, like, your eyes, like, are you just There's something that turns on, and you're, like, "I'm actually terrified.
" You're making a big fucking mistake.
I know we all know this.
Like, we all, like - Justin is not Bryce.
- Yes, I am not Everyone, can we just say that together? - Just one time.
"Justin is not Bryce.
" - [ALL.]
"Justin is not Bryce.
" - [CHUCKLES.]
- This is one of the finest human beings you will ever meet in your life right here.
- And I think that It's really true.
- [CHEERING, APPLAUSE.]
[STAMMERS.]
And I think it's not coincidental that someone like this is willing to take on a role like that and do it truthfully.
I remember right when the show came out, you posted a really cute baby picture of yourself.
And you're like, "For everyone who hates me this week, here is this.
" [ALL LAUGHING.]
- Um - Good tactic.
I do Thank you.
I'm doing everything I can.
So, Brian, why'd you choose to use the trial against the school as a framing device for season 2? It's not uncommon for, I think, anyone in a situation like the Bakers to want to find an explanation for what happened, to want to be able to place blame and responsibility.
And so, our hope was that people's, um, feeling about who was responsible, and whether, specifically, the school was responsible, would evolve over the course of the season.
As a matter of fact, we had just finished sort of laying out the whole season, the way the trial would work.
And we took a straw vote in the writer's room, and I think there were ten of us, so almost the size of a jury, and we took a vote about who would hold the school responsible and who wouldn't.
We were deadlocked at five to five.
- So - Oh, my gosh.
So, hopefully, that The trial is not only sort of an engine of story, but also really leads people to have those conversations and have debates on their own, because it's an important conversation to have.
What did you do when you were angry at Courtney Crimsen? I just took her to Hannah's grave.
And isn't it true that you accused her of being responsible for Hannah's death? She is responsible.
- All of those kids are responsible.
- Are you responsible, Clay? Are you responsible for Hannah's death? So, Dylan, when Clay cannot clear Hannah's name in court, he ends up taking justice into his own hands, and he releases the tapes anonymously online.
Do you think that Clay made the right call? Clay is someone who always acts on emotion, and doesn't really think his decisions through or his words through before he does or says them.
People did terrible things to you and they're getting away with it.
You left those tapes for a reason.
- What reason? - To To make people face what they did, and admit it, and understand how fucked up it was.
He wasn't thinking about how that would affect others on the tapes, and other people involved.
And that's not what Hannah would have wanted him to do, I don't think.
If Clay had a chance to do it again, I don't think he would.
All right, so, Alisha, Jessica is pressured by many people to speak out against Bryce in order to get justice.
Why do you think she was initially reluctant to do so? Because she wasn't ready.
She hadn't even told her father yet who the person is.
The story is with her family is that she was raped.
She told her parents that, but she doesn't know who did it still, but she knows that it's a person who went to school.
What are you doing? - Dad.
- What have you got to say for yourself? [JESSICA.]
Stop! Who do you think you're hurting right now? - What this boy did to you - He didn't do it.
So she hasn't been able to tell her father that.
And she really didn't believe she was the right kind of victim, especially her day after court.
Um, Jessica has that beautiful line where she goes, "Look at what they're doing to Hannah, and she's white," like And that's a real thing.
Like, Jessica is black, and it's in a courtroom and it's going against Bryce who's this white kid, who is doing Like, he's the baseball star, and his dad literally funds the school.
Like, who's gonna believe her? The odds are already against her.
Yeah, but I also think you have to see this as the victory that it is, because about six out of a thousand sexual assaults actually end with somebody being criminally prosecuted.
- Six out of a thousand? - Yeah.
I mean, it is - Out of a thousand.
- I did not know that.
It is crazy, and so I totally agree with what you're saying about Jessica not believing she's the perfect victim.
But no victims believe - they are the perfect victim.
- Yeah.
And anybody who's on the stand is going to be portrayed as a liar, or an opportunist, or vengeful, or crazy.
And that's why it's so courageous and bold and, in many ways, selfless for somebody to come forward and pursue criminal charges against a rapist.
- Yeah.
- It has tremendous social value.
So, Justin, talk to us about being a man in this world today and what you've learned from being on a show like this.
Well, I can go to any party and not have in the back of my mind, "Something could go wrong tonight.
" That's never a thought that I have, and that's privilege 'cause I'm a guy.
And in talking to all of the women in my life through this show and whatnot and people who have come to us after the show's come out, it's insane, it is happening way too fucking much.
It shouldn't be happening at all, but the fact that people are talking about it is brilliant.
I remember him holding me down and forcing himself on me.
I remember his face It was it was Bryce Walker.
[YORKEY.]
I mean, it's a season full of people, like, swinging fists at people and, like, pointing guns at people.
[STAMMERS.]
There's a lot of shit that goes down in this season, and I think the most courageous thing in the entire season - is when she says "Bryce Walker.
" - Yeah.
That takes the most courage of anything that happens.
So, Brian, why did you choose to let Bryce off the hook with just a little slap on the wrist? Mr.
Walker I expect you to walk the straight and narrow, young man.
I'm sentencing you to three months' probation, so ordered.
We did a tremendous amount of research into cases like this, and certainly in the case of rich, white defendants, more often than not, the sentences were much lighter than, I think, a reasonable person thought they should be.
We did see that in the Brock Turner case, and we've seen that all over the country, and that's in cases where the police actually take the report, and where investigators actually investigated, and then prosecutors actually prosecuted, and there are no plea bargains.
So we already got through all those hurdles.
And then the judge, you know, just does this light, little slap on the wrist.
Um, I think one of the most maddening and realistic scenes in the entire show was when the judge basically builds this, like, false moral equivalence between Jessica and Bryce, where he says, "Well, you know, you both have made decisions that brought you here, and you're both young and deserve to go on with your life " This is a tragedy all around.
As a judge, it's my role to look at both sides.
I'd like to see these two young people look hard at their lives and their choices.
There's nothing equivalent about the decisions that Bryce and Jessica made.
- Bryce made the deci [CHUCKLES.]
- [CHEERING, APPLAUSE.]
Um You know, Bryce made the decision to rape Jessica.
Jessica did not make the decision to be raped.
When we wrote that, a colleague said to us, "People are gonna be so pissed that Bryce only gets three months.
" And we said, "Yeah, good.
They should be pissed.
" - Yeah.
- 'Cause it's happening every day.
across the country every day, and people should be pissed.
Okay, it's time to address our next subject.
A major theme throughout season 2 is recovery.
Clay remains angry and traumatized by Hannah's suicide, unable to move on.
Leave me alone! [WELTEROTH.]
Jessica struggles to feel comfortable in her own skin and returns to the school where her abuser - remains the big man on campus.
- Who did this? And Alex faces an uphill battle with the physical and emotional aftermath of his own suicide attempt.
Why did I do this to myself? Though they slowly make strides both alone and together, it becomes very clear that recovery does not follow a straight line.
[APPLAUSE.]
Welcome, everyone.
We're joined now by Dr.
Christine Moutier, from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
This season, we find a really angry and confused Clay, who's trying really hard to move on, but he just can't.
So, Brian, let's start with you.
So, we watch Clay frequently talk to and even argue with Hannah, who appears this season as sort of a figment of his imagination.
How did you come to that element of his story and what does it mean for Clay's journey towards recovery? Well, we knew wanted to follow Clay's sort of path that he would have to take to truly be able to move on from his loss, from the loss of Hannah.
There's a cycle that I think every person wants to go through that's healthy to get to the point where you have grieved a person.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
- And that grief is not a day-to-day, hour-to-hour thing that's a part of your life.
It will be for a period of time, and then it will get to be, uh, less so.
And that's the natural process of grieving.
And I think what we saw with Clay season 1 was a kid who was just beginning that process.
And so when we went into writing season 2, we wanted to follow that process through.
But I do think that it's a very natural thing to do, to imagine the person that you're missing and to talk to them.
And I think that it's a really important part of Clay's recovery.
I'm angry all the time, Hannah.
I have been since you died.
I remember Brian saying to me, "You're gonna be talking to her in season 2.
You're going to be going through, um, situations with her.
" [STAMMERS.]
And I was excited to see what it was gonna be.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Yeah.
- And, um And it was a process of learning it over the season, 'cause it's not an easy thing to perform, but it was all really interesting and exciting.
All of those scenes were so convincing and so integral to season 2.
Yeah, it's kind of the heart of it, in a way.
Unfortunately, Katherine Langford couldn't be here with us today, but here's what she had to say about Hannah in season 2.
[CLAY.]
So, Hannah? I love you.
And I let you go.
It's interesting, 'cause that scene was actually the last scene I shot for season 2, and everyone was there.
And I think it was just a really beautiful way to kind of, for me, put her to rest, I think, as a character.
You know, I feel so grateful to have had the opportunity to tell Hannah's story so fully in season 1.
[STAMMERS.]
But I think at the end of the day, like, overall this season for everyone, we notice that it's not really the same Hannah that you see this season as you do in season 1.
You know, every time you see her, it's filtered through the lens of someone else.
I can't forgive you, Hannah.
I can't ever forgive you.
I think recovery and healing were such an important theme, particularly Clay's journey and Clay's healing.
The relationship between Clay and Justin is a really interesting and very complementary relationship to watch.
Although their worlds are so far apart and so dissimilar You know I'm, like, really fucked up, right? - Well, A, yes.
- [CHUCKLES.]
Clay is able to help Justin and vice versa.
Justin helps Clay in his own way.
- Oh.
- [MINNETTE.]
Clay may not realize it, but he really needs someone like Justin there to help get him through, um, this really difficult process.
And, um, where would Clay have ended up if Justin wasn't there for him? [STAMMERS.]
Yeah, when Clay's telling Justin how to tie a tie and Justin tells him that that he really needs to get laid We really need to get you laid.
that was my favorite part.
It was really, really funny.
Yeah, it was also That's what was fun also about having Justin around, and when they start to become comfortable with each other.
I mean, there's these moments of of levity, you know, with these two.
And then there's light moments between them that you don't really expect because when Clay brings Justin in, Clay hates Justin.
The last thing Clay wants is to have Justin in his room.
I don't want you to start hating me again.
[CLAY SIGHS.]
- Who said I stopped? - [MINNETTE.]
Over the course of the season, they really learn from each other and Clay forms a real respect for Justin.
And, um, yeah, so I think that, you know, the "bromance" moments are great because it just It offers up light to this dark world that we're living in in the show, - and - Yeah.
I loved the moment when Clay was waiting outside the shower, outside of the bathroom, when the shower was running, and you were just trying to cover for your new brother who's secretly taking a shower.
[MINNETTE.]
Yeah.
- [WATER RUNNING.]
- Can you get out now? It has to look like I'm the one in the shower, you idiot.
Well, can you pass me some more shampoo? - There's moments for comedy on the show.
- Yeah.
All right, so Brandon Flynn couldn't be here today with us, but let's see what he had to say about Justin and Clay's relationship this season.
My favorite part of this whole season, selfishly, is the relationship that starts to form between Clay and Justin, and the whole Jensen family, and the way that they they embrace Justin.
What the hell happened to you two? - It was a fight.
- Sports.
They were just like the best thing ever because it was just like, you know, more than just a one-off scene about, like, my heroin addiction.
It was, like, just a little slice of life.
You should have some pancakes.
They're fucking amazing! Which I never thought would be, like, my cup of tea.
You know, I'm usually the one who's like, "Let's get real sad and tragic!" But it was really awesome to just sit at a breakfast table and have, like, these awkward moments.
[SIGHS.]
Great.
And just have, like, this this levity, which I think is gonna be so enjoyable for the audience as well.
- How sweet! - Oh, man.
Well, he his answer was better, but we gave similar answers.
All right, so we're gonna switch gears to Alex.
So, this season, Alex has had to deal with the physical recovery from his suicide attempt, along with the emotional recovery.
So, Miles, Alex and Jessica lean on each other heavily on their return to Liberty High.
However, they are both sort of recovering from very different traumatic experiences.
With Alex, people can actually physically see the change in him.
But in Jessica, they can't.
How do you think that factors into the way they're treated by other people? With Jessica, unfortunately, in our culture for some reason, people tend to, uh, doubt sexual assault survivors.
And I feel like Jessica's dealing with that, where people are treating her like either nothing happened, or she's a liar, or she's exaggerating.
- A slut.
- Yeah, or she's a slut.
And then you have Alex, where everyone's kind of tiptoeing around him, because they feel bad for him because he did this thing.
And so I think that it is It's really important for the two of them to have each other in their recovery in certain ways.
And then I think at times it can be kind of harmful, because they are experiencing such different forms of recovery.
It's really beneficial and it is helpful to have someone there even when you're doubting their motives.
If people just continue to show up and they're there, over time, you just start to realize that they're not doing it for any other reason other than the fact that they care about you.
And I think that Alex, by the end of the season, is starting to understand that with, um, different people.
[KNOCKING ON DOOR.]
- [ZACH.]
Alex! - [POUNDING ON DOOR.]
- Alex! - What? I'm awake.
[YORKEY.]
I love that Zach keeps showing up even when sometimes Alex is a little bit of a shit to him.
- [WELTEROTH CHUCKLES.]
- Yeah, definitely.
The moment between you guys, where he's helping you figure out how to dance, I think it's one of my favorite moments.
Especially 'cause Zach is, like, all about like, "I'm not gonna let you be self-pitying.
" Like, "I'm not gonna let you do that.
Come on, get up.
" So good hand on her waist, - left hand on her hip.
- This one Yeah.
She'll hold it and just lean into her.
Okay? So, Miles, do you think in real life, you are a better dancer than Ross - or is it the other way around? - I am better.
I actually have proof.
- [LAUGHTER.]
- [BOE.]
Oh, my gosh.
Okay, what are you talking about? - Alisha was there.
- Oh, hey.
What are you talk Wow.
- Ross is actually good at everything.
- [BOE.]
Yeah.
- Honestly.
- Very good at - a lot of things.
- [BOE.]
He taught himself Chinese.
- Or Mandarin.
- Like a concert pianist and guitar player.
He's crazy, but we went to this arcade convention and I challenged him to Dance Dance Revolution.
- Thank you.
And I beat him.
- [BOE.]
Miles is so good.
- I'm not bad.
- You were so good.
- So I think I was better.
- You're like [IMITATES RAPID DANCING.]
- It was, like, actually mind-blowing.
- Thank you.
It was like the And it was so early in the season, I was just getting to know you and I'm like So, yes, I'm better than Ross Butler at dancing.
- [ALL LAUGHING.]
- [WELTEROTH.]
All right, so, Alisha, how did you prepare for the role of Jessica this season? What I did most of my research on was the lifelong psychological effects that would happen, 'cause you see Jessica going through PTSD.
She has panic attacks, and she has flashbacks, and triggers that will set off those flashbacks.
How she'll think that she's fine one day, and then the next day, something crazy will happen like Justin showing up to school, and all of those emotions coming back to her and setting her back to step one.
One of the most powerful performances in the entire season was watching you in that fitting room.
- [BOE.]
Yeah.
- And then coming out, and you and Nina having that exchange I was so grateful that you had a girlfriend there who understood what you're going through, that could sort of catch you when you were crumbling in that moment.
Yeah, yeah.
That was a very, very hard day.
[CHUCKLES.]
- Um, funny story, though.
While we were - [BOE AND YORKEY LAUGHING.]
- [WELTEROTH.]
Give us some levity, please.
- Yeah, this is While we were filming, I'm, like, naked and then I'm not.
And then I'm running out of the dressing room and I'm like, "Ah!" And then all the sirens are going off, the alarms are going off and We're filming in a live mall and there's people there, and this woman and her daughter come up to me while we're filming, and there's like There's cameras around us.
And she goes, "Are you okay? Like, do you want me to call ?" No, the first thing she says is, "Do you want me to call the police?" And I'm like And I'm like [GRUNTS, CHUCKLES.]
No.
And I walk away, and then people are like, "We're filming.
" And her expression was just priceless, like, she was so genuinely concerned.
- Yeah.
- [WELTEROTH.]
At least you knew - your performance was convincing.
- Yeah, yeah.
So, Dr.
Moutier, Jessica maintains this beautiful closeness with her father in season 2.
Despite all she's been through, she's still able to connect and talk to her parents honestly.
How is the support of a parent crucial to a sexual assault survivor's journey towards recovery? A parent can really play a pivotal role in their young person's life after a sexual assault or, really, after any traumatic incident.
It's a very discombobulating time, and then trying to work through that is an experience of sort of, um, reintegrating your world, if you will, after something like that.
So for a parent to realize that their child is going through something extremely significant And you can't assume that you know exactly what that is.
I think it's hard, 'cause we all have our own instincts in a moment of, like, "Oh, they need this or they're ready for this.
" Yeah, and you just wanna help them so bad that you can be aggressive sometimes.
And you need to be just be patient and wait and let them know that you'll be there for them.
And whenever they're ready to talk, they'll be ready to talk.
- [MOUTIER.]
Yep, follow their cues.
- Yeah, yeah.
There's a really sweet moment when, um, Jessica's dad tucks her into bed.
- It's just - [BOE.]
Oh, my gosh.
- [CHUCKLES.]
That was so sweet.
- [MOUTIER.]
It's a time, I think, when people do need that kind of nurturing and support.
And it's so powerful, because Jessica's rape was on that bed.
And I feel like that scene just shows like, okay, she's able to be in there.
And it's just It pours the love back into that bedroom where everything was taken away from her.
I'm just thinking about it.
[CHUCKLES.]
It's so cute.
- Yeah.
- Who doesn't love that feeling? I love good fathers.
I know.
We need more representation of good fathers.
Black fathers.
- They're very important.
- [BOE AND WELTEROTH.]
Very important.
All right, let's go to a question from a fan in our audience.
[WOMAN.]
Hi.
[CHUCKLES.]
My name is Federica, and thank you for being here, first of all.
And my question is, uh, why didn't the school allow the students to talk about Alex's suicide attempt and Hannah's actual suicide? And do you think this is the right way to deal with this problem? [CLICKS TONGUE.]
In our story, the school was afraid of, uh, suicide contagion, which is a very real and documented phenomenon, um, especially in the hothouse situation of a high school.
Uh, and so their response was to shut down conversation.
Um, it was based on a great deal of research, but also on a story told by a woman whose son had committed suicide.
And his friends, um and this was in Washington State.
His friends had been very upset and not sure how to deal with it because the school had forbidden them to talk about him or about the suicide for fear that it would inspire copycats.
It's something that, I think, is a common a pretty common response on the part of institutions like high schools.
You know, I don't think it's my place to say whether or not I think it's a good idea.
I think there's a lot of science behind it, and I always defer to scientists and social scientists and doctors.
- Luckily, I have one right next to me.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think out of fear, when you don't know what to do but you know something about the possibility of contagion, you just say, "Shut it all down altogether.
" And that is also very unhealthy, because in any population of people, there's gonna be some portion of them who are struggling and who are becoming at risk for suicide.
And so it's really The time is at that moment to use plain language around it, call it what it is, a suicide has happened.
And there are resources for anyone who is, um, who's dealing with any kind of mental health concern or any sort of distress of any type.
Essentially, what happens when you shut down conversation like that is it further stigmatizes all issues, so people just don't know what is safe to talk about.
And again, everybody's struggling at some point in time.
And the way through that is to start talking about it with safe people, with trustworthy people.
But to share it and to get through it with support.
- And to get rid of that stigma.
- Yep.
Thank you so much for your question.
All right, moving on.
The issues of violence against women and the cone of silence in today's high schools are both explored thoroughly in season 2.
- Wait, is that ? - Bryce.
[WELTEROTH.]
As the truth unravels about Bryce and the Clubhouse, we see how dangerous power, peer pressure, and an ingrained boys' club mentality can be.
I just don't wanna hear any more about it.
[APPLAUSE.]
Welcome, everyone.
- Thank you so much for being here.
- Thank you.
In addition to Justin, we're joined by Annie Winters, Brandon Butler, executive producer Joy Gorman Wettels, and series consultant Alexis Jones.
I can't wait to talk about the takedown of this Clubhouse.
This is when it all sort of heats up and speeds up.
Yeah.
I mean, the Clubhouse is really a metaphor, right? - For rape culture everywhere.
- Mm-hmm.
This systemic rape culture that we've seen coming down in Hollywood and in so many organizations in corporate America It's in every high school, it's in every college, anywhere that there's a power dynamic, anywhere that victims feel that they will lose their job, their agency, their popularity, their baseball team if they speak up.
And so we thought that it would be really important to show how maybe one person that can be brave enough to speak up like Zach, like Clay, like ultimately Scott Reed, can dismantle that.
Why didn't you hit me? I play baseball.
That doesn't make me a fucking rapist.
So, Brandon, I wanna talk to you.
Scott is always being grouped in with Bryce and all the other athletes, but then later in the season, we see him start to separate himself, and I wanna talk to you about that moment.
It seemed like it was a turning point for your character.
[BUTLER.]
Yeah, I think you're right.
At first, maybe Scott, you know, didn't really believe.
Like, "All right, rumors are going on.
But this is Bryce, you know.
This is my friend.
I grew up with him, I played football, baseball with this guy.
There's no way that he could really do anything like this.
" And I think as the season keeps going, you see Scott kinda realizing, "Wow, this is not who I want to be, you know, involved with.
This is not who I wanna be.
" Look, we've been taking care of Bryce for too long, man.
Come on, enough's enough.
[BUTLER.]
For people who do relate to Scott, just stand up if you don't see anything that's right, even though they are your friends.
You know, I would think you're caring more for your friend, you're being, you know, a true friend, if you say, "Hey, man, this is not you.
This is not who I know.
" That's why we brought Alexis in.
I mean, Alexis worked with Justin, she worked with the cast, she read the scripts and it was 'cause we knew that this is this is the person who's going into these locker rooms and teaching young men, "Oh, you don't have to be the problem.
You can be part of the solution.
" I'm very passionate about, like, tangible tools and language.
I think we can talk about it in theory and we can use words like "consent" and "bystander intervention," but the reality is, no one's using words like "consent and bystander intervention" - in an actual locker room.
- Right.
So my thing is the simple phrase, "We don't do that.
" Right? That's not pointing fingers and saying like, "You're not doing something right, and I'm so great.
" Because that's part of bro code, is, "I'm not gonna call you out 'cause I'm imperfect.
" And so, for me, this idea of like, "We don't do that" and that's a collective.
We can do something to make a difference, and we are setting a higher expectation and standard for ourselves.
And there's still that camaraderie and that friendship.
- You're not breaking that.
- We're still we.
Just don't be that guy.
- Be us.
- Exactly.
- We don't do that.
- We're good.
Don't do that.
And to me, it's not just protecting girls, right? That's also protecting your brothers.
If you actually care about your buddy, why would you ever allow them to engage in any kind of behavior that has the severe consequences on the other side of what we're seeing play out? In these instances, language is such a tool.
- [WETTELS.]
Yep.
- It is the tool.
It is the tool, so I love that you offered one tool to us which is, "We don't do that.
" That's the interesting thing, is it's definitely a cultural problem that we have that can be changed.
The epiphanies that these boys have in these locker rooms, as in like, "Oh, we don't have to participate in this culture.
Things can be different.
" So I think it's a testament to what can change by being brave for those 15 seconds where it matters, you know, and speaking out and saying something.
You know, if you were any kind of father, to this team or to anyone, you would've stopped their bullshit years ago.
It's the complicity of silence that keeps these "clubhouses" going.
So Annie, early on in the season, ChlÃe, your character, chooses to believe the version of the events - that she hears from the abuser, Bryce.
- Right.
- And not to believe the victim, Jessica.
- Yeah.
When you found out about this, when you read the script, were you sort of hoping deep down that ChlÃe would switch allegiances? Of course.
I mean, duh.
The outsider's like, - "What are you thinking? Come on.
Duh.
" - [ALL CHUCKLING.]
When you have a guy that's very powerful in high school and you're a girl that he picks, like, that's gonna be kind of your first priority.
[CROWD.]
Aw! Hey, how about a hand for our new cheer captain, ChlÃe Rice? [CHEERING.]
And I feel like a lot of girls end up putting them on this pedestal and then of course she's gonna believe, you know, everything that he says.
It's also her worth with her girlfriends.
Like, it looks very cool to be, like, "Well, yeah, I have a great relationship.
" And she brags about it to her friends.
And it's become like her thing.
It's become everything - It's defined her.
- that she is in high school.
And to get rid of that is not only getting rid of a relationship that makes her feel validated, but also validation in every other aspect of her whole "social life" in high school.
- You know? - [WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
[DENNIS.]
So you don't remember having sex with Bryce Walker? I do.
I remember.
[JONES.]
I think as heartbreaking as that moment was as a feminist watching this, I was like, "Don't do it, girl!" You know, I think there's definitely a piece of that that was hard to watch, but I'm actually so ironically grateful that they scripted it that way because I think, unfortunately, that is so much more the authentic representation of girls, because girls have been given just as equally a dangerous cultural script that says that, "I'm gonna choose this human - at the expense so often of myself.
" - [WELTEROTH.]
Mm.
But I think, truthfully, it comes down to a worth issue.
And I think the way that our culture and society has set up worth for girls and it is reinforced in the 10.
3 hours of media a day, especially, that millennials consume The messages that are so crystal clear, specifically in this country, are there are two ways in which you matter as a girl.
It's your physical attractiveness based on an impossible, unrealistic, unattainable expectation, and the attention that you get from boys.
We have to understand that half of the way in which ChlÃe has been programmed is that the attention that she gets from Bryce - is half of how she matters.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Right.
And so I think if I could sit her down, if I could sit you down, if I could sit down the 16-year-old version of me, I would just say like, "Do you have any idea how beloved you are?" - Yeah.
- You are worthy and deserving of respect and love because you breathe.
- [APPLAUSE.]
- Chills.
All right, let's go to a question from a fan in our audience.
Hi, my name is Tori.
And my question is, what was the environment like on set while filming the heavier scenes, especially the ones dealing with rape? - [WELTEROTH.]
Ooh.
- We take really seriously, A, how brave these guys have to be to do this, but we also, you know, that's part of what our consultants do.
Our therapists talk to them and, you know, we take so seriously that they're doing this, like, really difficult work.
[PRENTICE.]
Rehearsals help.
That way, there's less unknown, which makes it a little less terrifying so we can really kinda focus on the characters when we're doing it.
I mean, you guys are amazing.
All of our producers, our directors that we've had for all of those scenes have been fantastic.
Thank you all for being here.
All of you did such a fantastic job and contributed so much to the conversation.
- So thank you.
- [ALL.]
Thank you.
Great.
Thank you so much for your question.
All right, let's move on to the next topic.
This season, confusing, often heartbreaking romantic relationships continue to plague nearly everyone.
I came back for you.
[WELTEROTH.]
Jessica struggles with her complicated feelings for Justin.
The revelation of Zach and Hannah's secret romance shocks everyone.
You didn't deserve her.
Tony's anger puts his relationship with Caleb in jeopardy.
And Clay can't be Skye's savior, no matter how hard he tries.
You're supposed to call me.
[APPLAUSE.]
[WELTEROTH.]
Now, let's welcome our new guests, series writer Julia Bicknell, and series consultant Dr.
Helen Hsu.
Okay, we have to start with you, Alisha.
What did you think of the decision to have Jessica and Justin act on their feelings in that final episode of season 2? Yeah, I had a lot of feelings.
Honestly, like, when I read it, I was upset.
But then I kinda had to take a step back and look through Jessica's perspective.
This happens a month later, and Justin literally just went to jail for Jessica.
- Justin! Wait, no.
- Jess, it's okay.
- What? - It's okay.
[BOE.]
I can understand why she would because she does love him, but - It was so painful to watch.
- Totally.
And at the same time, I caught myself and I thought, "Why am I judging her? - Why am I judging her? I am a feminist.
" - [BOE.]
Yeah, exactly.
Totally.
She can do whatever she wants.
She can do whatever she wants.
It's her body.
'Cause Jessica has this whole journey with her body.
Like, her body throughout this season is not her own.
I feel like that moment with Justin, she looks at him and - You look beautiful.
- he calls her beautiful and she's like, "Wow," like She feels like herself and she feels beautiful in her body, and he made her feel that way in that moment.
You know, and I've worked with survivors.
And so it is complicated.
And you don't become abstinent and a sexless being with no healthy sexuality just because something happened to you.
Lots of people are abused, or someone was complicit in their abuse by someone they really loved, who, in other ways, was really good to them, and it's confusing.
- [BOE.]
Yeah.
Yeah.
- Mm-hmm.
All right, so let's talk about a positive relationship that maybe ended badly with Zach and Hannah.
Obviously, the relationship went wrong when Zach decided to keep the relationship a secret from his friends.
When did the idea of this relationship between Zach and Hannah come up? - Come about? - Yeah.
It's so interesting 'cause we actually talked about it in season 1 in the room of giving Hannah a positive experience with a guy, but we [CHUCKLES.]
Obviously, real estate wise, we had to get through the tapes and all of the awful things that happened to her.
But in season 2, we're like, "Let's bring this back around.
" And you know, we threw around a lot of ideas about it.
And one of it was just like, "Let's give her this, like, sweet guy.
Zach was really sweet, and he listens to her.
" Like, her, being, like, "I've had been practicing, and I know what makes me feel good.
" That's so important for girls to know that they're allowed to feel good during sex.
[STAMMERS.]
My initial reaction just as a viewer and, I guess, as Clay Clay kicked in, and I was like, "That's not There's no way.
There's no way.
" I actually loved it when he's sort of You know, Clay's obsessing and Justin just says, "You're a jerk.
" All of a sudden, you don't know who she is? - You're a dumbass.
- I'm not a dumbass.
You're dumb.
You're an ass.
Dumbass.
She's been with, like, one guy ever, like, and somehow you don't know her? - What is that? You know? - [BOE.]
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, Clay is very quick to let his emotions get the best of him.
Let's see what Katherine had to say about Hannah and Zach's relationship.
Take a look.
You know, I think in season 1, we told Hannah's story, I think, so intimately.
So when Brian Yorkey sat me down and told me about Hannah and Zach's relationship, I was definitely little bit shocked at first.
But I think after I had time to kind of process it, I think it was a really nice addition to this season.
It was a really great opportunity to show a loving, consensual, and intimate relationship between two young people.
[ZACH SIGHS.]
- Is that me shaking or you? - Maybe both.
A little bit of both.
[CHUCKLES.]
Some people actually said to me, this means that what happened between her and Bryce, it doesn't mean that much anymore.
What I hope viewers understand and get from this is that just because she had sex with Zach doesn't change the severity of what Bryce did.
It doesn't matter what your sexual history or activity has been or ever been.
It doesn't make sexual assault or sexual violence any more appropriate or acceptable.
You've brought shame on this family.
This season is very much about healing, particularly Clay's journey and Clay's healing.
You know, Hannah very much in season 1 is always pushing Clay to kind of, like, come out of his comfort zone.
Party at my house tomorrow night.
You're invited.
It's mandatory.
Don't bring the helmet.
And I think that you kinda see a little bit of that from Skye.
[HANNAH.]
I like her.
She makes you try new things.
It's good for you.
Skye challenges him, and it feels like a very natural progression and a natural relationship.
[WELTEROTH.]
What did Clay learn from his relationship with Skye, you think? He can't help or save everyone, and he's not responsible for everyone.
You're a good person, Clay.
And you can help people.
Just maybe not how you think they need to be helped.
You see that Skye and Clay really needed each other to be able to move on and be happy in their lives.
And yes, the relationship failed and it didn't work out for them, but it is what was meant to be because because Clay used Skye's words later on.
I can let you go and still love you.
A good friend once said to me, "I can love you and still let you go.
" It's clear that he needed Skye to be able to move on and let Hannah go.
And that is what he needs to be able to have a happy relationship with anybody.
We have to talk about the school dance.
Dylan, you went from super high energy dancing to this incredibly heightened emotional scene when Clay and Hannah's song "The Night We Met" comes on.
I had all and then most of you Some and now none of you Clay, as we know, is someone who always has a wall up and it takes a lot for him to actually let anyone in on what he's feeling.
Jessica, and Tony, and Ryan, and Courtney, and Zach, and Alex, you know [STAMMERS.]
Clay doesn't open up to them, and that is the first time And yeah, Clay is experiencing this moment alone, but when they come in, he allows them to and he allows them to be there for him.
And that's, I think, the first time he's allowed that, that they've all been together in a moment like that.
For everything they've been through, there can still be a sense of community and they can still be there for each other.
And, um, I think that You know, that's huge for Clay and huge for all of them in that moment.
I mean, you guys can step in, but I don't know if you agree.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, great.
Hundred percent with everything you said.
- [ALL CHUCKLING.]
- And it's, no, it's, uh It was a culmination, I think, of this two-year journey.
And so I think for everyone it was so emotional that day.
And we did it forever.
I mean, we were there long into the night.
And so all of those emotions were real, and, uh There was something very justified and beautiful about coming together with Clay at the end and putting that to bed in a way, you know? It's a beautiful scene.
[STAMMERS.]
I think this season leads up to that scene.
It's beautiful.
Christian came in and killed it every time.
He was outperforming me.
- Yeah, he was sobbing.
- You gotta bring him back.
[ALL LAUGHING.]
- You have to make me look good.
- Yeah.
[CHUCKLES.]
I was just picking up what you was putting it down.
It's so important to have a strong support system.
- Yeah.
- It's, like, the most important thing.
And I think that's why that scene is truly so powerful.
[WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
I thought it was a beautiful theme in this season, actually.
Like, you look There was more development of parents, friends, your chosen family, community, how they supported Clay, but how they supported Jessica as well.
But we just wanted you to know that we'll stand by you.
And we believe you.
All of us.
[HSU.]
We do need each other in these ways, and that we can be very flawed - and still kind of help each other find our own way.
- [BOE.]
Yeah.
A big theme of our season we started with, when we were even breaking it, was just going from isolation to community.
And we wanted to go through that with I mean, all of our characters I think in some way go from being really isolated, feel like they gotta do everything, like, by themselves, to finding, you know, a beautiful moment on the dance floor where we're all crying.
- [ALL.]
Yeah.
- [MINNETTE.]
Exactly.
All right, we have another audience question.
Hello, I'm Leo.
I loved seeing the portrayal of Caleb and Tony's relationship this season.
I like seeing the portrayal of a tough gay man.
I, myself, am gay.
And I feel like in shows and movies, we generally see a gay man being portrayed as feminine.
Nothing wrong with being feminine at all.
Were you intentionally trying to break this stereotype by having this character being portrayed as a tough gay man? Authenticity I think was the most important thing.
I think, uh I'm not a gay man, and so I was wary of playing the role 'cause I didn't want to You wanna do justice to this person and to Tony and to bring this person to life.
And since the show's release, I have been welcomed with open arms by the gay community.
And that lets me know that I've done my job.
And the writers, Julia, and the team and myself, our focus is making sure that he's not a gay man.
He's a man who's living his life and going through problems like everyone else.
And, uh, he just happens to be gay.
For us, it was just making sure that everyone came off as three-dimensional.
You know, Tony I love that when we introduced Caleb, Caleb understands Tony in so many ways.
They're both Also, they're both gay men of color walking through the world.
And R.
J.
who plays Caleb is a fantastic human and a pretty great actor.
- Pretty handsome, too.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Pretty handsome, too.
Tony's not doing too bad.
[ALL LAUGHING.]
Personally, I lived I have a lot of best friends who are gay.
And I lived My roommate in college, he turned the stereotype on its head for me.
This was a strong, powerful, Latino man who was into fitness and into a multitude of things.
Uh, and, for me, that was eye-opening at that age.
And I really, truly wanted to pay homage to him.
That, to me, was the most important thing.
I wanted to be true to this to the person, not to the stereotype, and to the community, and they've loved us.
Oh.
[APPLAUSE, CHEERING.]
Great.
Thank you so much for your question.
All right, let's move on to the final topic.
As the trial against the school commences, Olivia continues to question her role in Hannah's death My dear Hannah.
Such drama.
while forging relationships with Hannah's friends in an attempt to hang on to any remaining connection to her daughter.
[APPLAUSE.]
Welcome, everyone.
Thank you so much for being here.
Joining us for our final topic, Kate Walsh, Suicide Prevention Advocate Suzanne Timms, series writer Marissa Jo Cerar, and series consultant Dr.
Helen Hsu.
Kate, I wanna start with you.
You play Olivia Baker, Hannah Baker's mother.
Talk to us a little bit about what Olivia is going through since Hannah's suicide and everything that's happened between her and Andy.
I really loved starting the second season, you know, a few months down the road, and just the changes that have transpired.
So to see her evolve and everything she's gone through was really exciting for me to play and, I think, very realistic.
So, Marissa, tell us about how the writers decided where Olivia and Andy's storyline should go this season.
Well, what Kate said is so true.
This happens when there is a suicide in the family.
It often ends in divorce, unfortunately.
And we really wanted to show that grief looks different on everyone.
And these two people are both grieving, but doing so in very different ways.
And that in the five-ish months between season 1 and season 2, so much has transpired.
We discovered that the men in these relationships are often more ready to move on quicker than the women.
And so we just wanted to try and be as truthful as we could in that respect.
It was so painful to watch the two of them go through such different processes for grieving their daughter and to see it sort of tear them apart.
Well, I want to welcome a very special guest that we have with us today, uh, Suzanne Timms.
Suzanne, you're the only one here with us today who has actually lived through what Olivia has experienced.
Can you tell us, um, your story? Um, I'm here because I had what I thought was a seemingly perfect life.
I'm married to a wonderful husband, and I have four beautiful children.
And as a nurse, I've cared for many suicide attempts.
And unfortunately, in 2013, I learned that you can be so much closer to suicide.
My 17-year-old chose to die by suicide.
I didn't get a whole lot of opportunity to write a script about how I should feel or how I should react, because it's real life, so That's why I'm here today as an advocate.
How did you initially become connected to the show? Because of my son's death, I took the opportunity to be an advocate um, rather than being silent.
I decided that my son's silence didn't saved him, so I wanted to be his voice.
Um, I spoke out on Facebook on my son's page and found out that many children are reaching out and need that support.
And living through it, being the parent, being Olivia, they're asking me for help.
So I had, um, spoken out, and a local news reporter asked if I would be interested in talking about 13 Reasons Why, which my daughter had been watching.
And I said I a hundred percent support it.
People learned the aftereffects of suicide and the signs and symptoms up to it, and you're preventing people from choosing suicide.
Um, after that interview, Joy Gorman reached out to me and she asked if I'd be willing to talk to Kate 'cause Kate wanted to know what it's like to be the mom rather than just reading a script.
And that was very meaningful to me because Kate's not only acting it, but she wants to feel the real emotion, so I appreciated that.
So we could, you know, do something positive with what we were doing.
- And that's how I ended up being here.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Mm.
She's amazing.
Yeah, she's incredible.
[APPLAUSE.]
Kate, you must feel a tremendous responsibility, um, to reflect the experiences of parents like Suzanne all over the country who've experienced this in real life.
What was it like playing a character who is in so much pain? It was more, uh, just the challenge of being as accurate and as honest as I could be and, um And making sure too, because it's a television show, so it's not real life.
So to try to remain honest with the thrust of what Olivia's drive is for this season, which is, obviously, to find the truth.
And her anger is more present in season 2, and her obsession, hoping always to do honor and make space for people who have honestly had to go through it, the unimaginable.
Suzanne, what was it like watching Kate's performance? And I am curious, how similar was her experience onscreen to your experience in real life? It's wonderful to see that she's able to take my own experience and pull that into the show itself and show that you have to put on this face at times.
And then other times, you just get lost in yourself.
And I saw that often in her face, so that you're holding it in and keeping everything that you feel no one else understands and nobody else feels.
- You did an amazing job showing that.
- Thank you.
- [KATE CHUCKLES.]
- [APPLAUSE.]
So, Marissa, um, this season, we see a lot more concerned parents in the mix.
They don't always necessarily get it right.
But we do see conversations taking place between parents and teens.
Why did you all choose to put more of a spotlight on parents this season? This root trauma, Hannah's death, rocked the community.
And if you are a parent, and someone commits suicide at your child's school, how can that not be part of the conversation? But at the end of the day, we just wanna show that a kid They might not tell you everything, but if you show them that you're open, we loved showing there is an adult who will listen.
Why is it kids don't tell their parents anything? Are you afraid we won't understand? Hopefully, you've found ways to convey the message, that yes, no matter what, even if I'm angry, or I don't understand, that I will always unfailingly be here in some way.
And it's more about listening than talking, which I think is a pressure that parents feel they need to have the answers, and it's like - Or they need to fix it.
- Right.
And it's more about being there, and we will find the answers together.
Because, of course, no parent is ever ready for everything that appears.
And maybe even bringing in those opportunities, knowing that perhaps we're in a place where my child doesn't want to talk to me or is really not open.
I've had families I've worked with where they're like, "We brought in the younger uncle and they were more comfortable talking to him," or "I made sure they went to temple and there was somebody there.
" Or just trying to create those opportunities, - multiple opportunities.
- [WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
- We have to talk about Mr.
Porter.
- [HSU.]
Yes.
He makes such a transformation in this season.
I was hoping that we can chat.
About what? About anything that you need.
- Derek Luke.
He's amazing.
- Derek Luke is amazing.
Obviously, he's not here with us today.
But let's break down his character and the transformation that we see him go through.
So, Marissa, Mr.
Porter seems to be dealing with his guilt by trying to fix things at Liberty High School.
He goes from sort of being apathetic to becoming an advocate.
- I've got it handled, Porter.
Thanks.
- Sit.
[WELTEROTH.]
But we still see him making some really obvious mistakes in his methods.
We, in the writer's room, called him "Season 2 Mr.
No-Fucks-Porter.
" - Pardon my French.
- [ALL LAUGHING.]
And it was He knew - He does sort of lose all of his fucks.
- Yeah.
He knew his time was limited at Liberty.
And he really does have good intentions.
He wants to right his wrongs.
He knows that he failed Hannah.
But it is too late.
I'm dead.
[CERAR.]
And he has it all bottled inside and it comes out in some really messed up ways.
- [GRUNTS.]
- We wanted to send him off right.
And we wanted to show that he had so much to lose.
And he was risking his career by doing what he did on the stand.
[SIGHS.]
Mrs.
Baker, I didn't mean to let your daughter down.
[SNIFFLES.]
I'm sorry.
We wanted, with Mr.
Porter, to to make it clear that he didn't have all the training that he needed.
He was not equipped to handle this assault that was brought to him.
He was not He didn't know how to help Hannah.
Some girl, somewhere right now she's going through, you know, what you're feeling, and I don't want her to die.
That was important to us.
We didn't wanna make it seem like school counselors are terrible people.
He's a great person.
He failed.
He didn't have all the tools.
And he says that.
He tries to help even when he leaves.
And he gives that file and says these are the kids to watch.
I understand a school can't provide everything.
Their primary goal is education.
However, being the main place that kids are, eight hours a day, school-based services are actually the most effective way to reach kids where they are, where they're comfortable.
But there's a lot of questions that parents should be asking.
Does this counselor got a caseload of 500 kids? Are they a guidance counselor only by training or a clinical counselor? Or a school psych I mean, they're all different specialties.
And I think we don't always how to ask is this the right one? And to advocate and demand for that.
Suzanne, what was your experience at your son's school, specifically with the adults at the school? They felt that they had the resources that they needed available, but they picked and chose what classes to provide those resources for.
For example, my daughter is a freshman at that high school, and she was not aware that they had grief counselors there at the school.
So it's so important for schools to know that when they do have a program available and they wanna believe that they're doing the right thing, that they provide the resources to everyone.
[WELTEROTH.]
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I just wanna give a very special thanks to you, Suzanne, for being willing to share your story, - for being willing to speak with Kate.
- [APPLAUSE.]
I mean, it takes a lot of strength and bravery to do that.
So Kate, what is it like to be a part of this 13 Reasons Why phenomenon? It's just I don't have words.
There are no words.
You're like, "Well, clearly, this needs to be talked about.
" These very important issues of gender discrimination, sexual assault, suicide, mental health, abuse, racism.
All of the issues that are coming up, none of them are comfortable.
And the truth of the matter is we are talking about it.
This is We don't have to have all the answers, but this is the truth.
It's happening.
Let's talk about it.
It's not comfortable.
It's the right time.
It's the right time for us to be having these conversations.
- Yeah.
- It's an extraordinarily powerful time to be a storyteller, to be an artist, and to be a part of this larger movement, hopefully, towards progress.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Right? Thank you to all of you for being here today - and having this conversation.
- [APPLAUSE.]
Thank you for watching Beyond The Reasons.
We hope that this has been a useful platform to help you process everything you saw in season 2.
And more than that, we hope that you continue these important conversations on your own.
If you or anyone that you know needs help, you can go to 13ReasonsWhy.
info for resources in your area.