24 Hours in Police Custody (2014) s03e02 Episode Script
Guilty Little Secrets
KNOCKING I can't explain how life-changing it is when we knock on that door.
It's literally like walking into a house and throwing a hand grenade in there and letting it explode.
Your life is about to take a completely different path.
Indecent images of children have been downloaded at this address.
We're going to place you all under arrest now on suspicion of possessing, making and distributing indecent images of children.
HANDCUFFS CLICK You're shaking a bit.
Once a suspect is in custody, the police have 24 hours to investigate and interview.
After that, it's either charge or release.
BEEPING TAPE RECORDING: You have been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
On suspicion of stalking.
-On suspicion of GBH.
Possession and making of indecent images of children.
TAPE RECORDING: On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
Start explaining.
It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
Where were you on the 28th of March? -It was not me! I was not there! That could have been 101 people.
But it's nothing to do with me.
Police! BANGING Open the door now! HE SHOUTS Who's innocent? Who's guilty? Why would Pete say that you've assaulted him? Because he's deluded.
He's a drunk.
-Well, that's nonsense.
Armed police! Show me your hands! From the streets to the interrogation rooms Where's the knife? -Did you have a knife? -No.
He makes a specific threat that he is going to kill her.
From the suspects to the head of CID That's one hell of a shirt, David.
I'm lovin' it.
ALARM WAILS, SHOUTING these are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
I'm not letting him get away with it.
-I want him nicked and charged.
If he kicks off, I'm out the door.
SHOUTING I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Will they discover it before time runs out? Ah! -Good news? -Yeah.
Got him.
This is a Bedfordshire operation.
We believe someone at the address has been file sharing indecent images of children.
Myself and Emma and maybe one other just go to the door, so we cl There's a child at the location, so we don't need to go in too heavy-handed.
Explain the reason for the warrant, erm We'll get BLEEP arrested and out of the house and then you guys can come in and conduct the search.
That's how it's going to pan out.
Detective Constable Paul Fitzharris is part of a Bedfordshire police task force.
They're involved in a UK-wide operation to tackle a surge in online child pornography.
Tired and just tired.
I do not like 4:30 starts, I have to say.
'It was never something I'd ever thought of' doing, to catch paedophiles for a living.
All my friends and family say to me, why on earth do you want to do that job? But it's good to lock these people up and get them away from children.
Before I joined this unit, I was quite sheltered from this.
And looking at these poor children being sexually abused, it it made me angry.
I remember going home thinking, just "wow" and it kept on going over in my head, over in my head.
'That' did scar me, cos I do have a little girl myself? The team act on intelligence they receive from the National Crime Agency.
This allows them to trace computers accessing illegal material.
KNOCKING Hello, good morning.
My name's Detective Paul Fitzharris from the Public Protection Unit of Bedfordshire Police.
Myself and my colleagues need to come in and have a chat.
Yea h, u re.
Who else is in the house? BLEEP.
Asleep? Yeah, OK.
Let's leave it like that.
WOMAN TALKS Erm, basically, we have a search warrant given to us by the Magistrates Court.
Now, this is based on intelligence we've received about the illegal downloading and sharing of indecent images of children.
OK, now Of children? Of children, that's right.
OK, based on that information, I'm going to place yourself under arrest, OK? On suspicion of possession, making and distribution of indecent images of children.
We're obviously mindful you've got a child here, OK? So that'll be clone tactfully.
Don't want to upset THEY TALK I didn't make them.
THEY TALK Yeah, and we'll go back to Luton now.
Do you want? Shall we put him in some different clothes? THEY TALK OK? OK.
-OK.
WOMAN SPEAKS QUIETLY I'll give you a call later on to let you know what's going on, HE HUMS DOOR BANGS Morning! KEYS JANGLE OK.
If you want to come in and stand on the side.
This is the custody sergeant.
-Mm-hm.
-Good morning.
Time of arrest? -It was 06:45.
-And arrested for what offence? The possession, making and distribution of indecent images of children.
BEEPING And your occupation? -Doctor.
Erm, could you take a seat on the bench for a moment? Can I talk to you out? So what are we doing with him today? -He's a gynaecologist.
-Mm-hm.
Erm, so by the end of play today, he'll be suspended.
Yeah, so, yeah It's a bit of a That's why it was a high risk one.
Yeah.
Hopefully, bailed somewhere else.
Excuse me.
I'm going to sort that thing out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it always rings alarm bells when you get Yeah, absolutely that profession.
THEY TALK You all right? All right? THEY TALK The police must now link the doctor to the illegal activity traced to his address.
Whose is this laptop? WOMAN MUTTERS All of yours? Right, I'm going to sit down with you and explain everything.
I just need to check on BLEEP.
OK.
-When you know that you've got a husband and a wife and family and children there, it is it is heartbreaking to do that warrant, for me.
I want to be in there, seizing items and getting myself straight back out again, because of the upset and how much we have just turned that family's life around.
It's unbelievable.
OK, is there anything you want to ask before we leave? Mm-mm.
No? OK.
All right.
Shall we get going? Nine seized computers and storage devices will be sent for forensic examination.
It will take several months to get the results.
What have we got? -In the time they are allowed to hold the suspect, the team can conduct an initial search of just one laptop.
LAPTOP WHIRS All right, sir? You have the right to speak to an independent solicitor.
That's free of charge.
And that could be in person or on the telephone.
You want to have a solicitor? -Yep.
-Do you have one? Or would you like the duty? -No comment.
It is frightening how many people are actively involved.
It starts with the actual abuse, but it goes right down to the people that are looking at it in their homes and they just think that it's not real.
It's, you know, like an act, like a scene and then everybody goes home happy.
They don't realise that that, that is actual sexual abuse they're watching.
That is rape, they're watching.
You're part of the problem, so, although you're not there, you're contributing to it by wanting to see it.
Er, some Polo mints.
Hospital ID card.
While we're waiting for you to be interviewed, I'll need to keep you in one of our detention rooms, one of the cells.
Do you want tea or coffee or anything now? -No, thanks.
Erm, just M2 with a blanket then, please.
-OK.
-OK.
-Follow me.
No problem.
Do you want a blanket? -I should be OK.
You should be OK? If you need one, just says to buzz Sergeant.
I know it's, like, not the nicest room in the world TALKING FADES, TICKING All right, OK? We'll talk to you in a bit.
DOOR BANGS M2 is a doctor.
Arrested for indecent images, so it's a quite a sensitive job, so just keep an eye on him for the first hour or Cos his world is about to fall apart.
Hello, are you all right? How you doing, Annie? A gynaecologist has been arrested on suspicion of downloading child pornography.
Intrigued to see what story he's going to come up with.
He'll come up with some excuse.
And did you see BLEEP? -Yeah.
If that was me I'd be like, "Off you go.
" Not a chance.
So if you came home and found him doing it on the computer, you'd be like, "Get the hell out"? -"Get out.
" Especially cos I've got a little one.
But would it be in the back of your mind that he'd touched her up? Yep.
Would she tell you? Yep.
Definitely.
That's good.
Definitely.
But, like, how many people, partners, stay with their partners that have been Oh, loads of them.
-even convicted.
-Loads of them.
It'is how much you accept; I suppose, at the end of the day; Where your boundaries lie.
I think it's different if you have children, though, isn't it? Yeah.
Well, they'll be affected as well, it's not just him.
CLOCK TICKING Nine times out of ten, the solicitor will advise them to say nothing.
They will be advised that, OK, you've been arrested, but the police haven't actually got the physical evidence yet.
They've taken, they've seized your computer, for instance - that needs to be examined.
What if they don't find anything? Don't sort of admit to anything they haven't got yet.
Let them prove it before you admit it.
That one.
And that one.
MACHINE BLEEPS OK, the first thing I'm going to ask you is - are you responsible for the offence for which you been arrested? No comment.
-No comment, OK.
What I'm going to do is just go through a series of questions, background questions, that you may feel you want to answer, OK? So first of all, I'm going to ask you - you've already given me your address at the start of the interview - can you tell me who else lives there? IN DISTINC I'll say no comment.
-I think this is a good point for me to go through some of the files that were downloaded, OK? So, we're going to go back to the 23.
02.
2013, and the first title that was downloaded was 12-Year-old Girls Flashing Tits And Kissing Each Other.
What can you tell me about that download? Although the police will not have conclusive proof until the computers are examined, they do have a list of file names that were downloaded from the doctor's home.
You can see, obviously, I've got quite a lothere, and it's not my intention to go through every single one, so I've just picked out some titles that are quite prominent and that have got quite impactive names so they might jog your memory, OK? Very Young Cocaine-Addict Lesbian Teen Sluts Doing Crazy Things On Sick Cam With Sound - in brackets - Webcam.
What can you tell me about that download? Is it something that you think that your wife could have downloaded? BLEEP downloaded? OK, that file was shared a further three times.
Could it be your wife that's downloading No comment.
You keep looking at your solicitor.
If you want to talk to us, talk to us, OK? Because this is your time.
This is We're trying to prove - or disprove - your involvement.
Right now, you are just saying, "No comment", we're getting no information from you.
Yeah? So this is your interview, this is your time to talk to us.
I understand.
May I have a quick word with my solicitor before we continue? OK, yep.
Yep.
OK, Yep- You Push him now.
Push him now.
(Getting hot in here.
) Have you not got a T-shirt on? SHE LAUGHS You hate a T-shirt.
I don't! Ooh, I'm getting a bit hot.
He badly wants to talk.
He wants to say it's not her.
What we will try is try and hit on things that emotive to them.
Let's look at who else is involved - your children, your wife, your family.
Yeah, OK.
'This is what's going to happen if you don't talk.
You know, it's going to have more effect on your family and loved ones.
We're going to have to, you know, look at what they're doing and We're going to have to interview them.
Because of the nature of the offences, and we're talking about offences against children, and there is a child living here, we do have a duty to safeguard OK? And that's what it's about.
It'll be some simple questions, just to make sure that is safe.
OK? All right? Not saying that anything's happened - certainly not the case at all, and we certainly haven't got any evidence to suggest that that has happened.
With paedophiles, we know it goes in a natural progression.
If they're looking at indecent images of children, they may have already committed hands-on offences, or they may have started looking at these images and got a bit braver and thought, "Actually, I might try doing something myself.
" So there is a natural progression, generally, to get from them sitting in front of the computer to them actually physically abusing somebody.
Have you just woken up? Ah.
Need to have a drink or anything? No, you're all right? What's things like at home? There's just you, Mum and Dad, isn't there? Lives here.
OK.
And is everything OK at home? Yeah? If anything was troubling you at home, yeah? If you were worried about anything at home, who would you tell? I would tell my mum.
Is there anyone else that you could tell? I would call my dad on the phone.
1 Yeah.
1-; Yeah.
OK, um And are you happy at home? Yeah? OK.
OK.
Um Is there anything else you want to tell me about? That makes you unhappy, maybe? No.
No? OK.
Um The time on the video recording is 13.
13.
We're still in interview room six at Luton Police Station.
You're still under caution.
Can you tell me where you work at the moment? No comment.
OK.
I'm aware that you're a doctor, OK? And I think we'd agree that that is in a position of trust.
Have you ever abused that position of trust to sexually assault children? No comment.
You have a No comment.
We spoke to BLEEP this morning.
Have you sexually assaulted E I I SOLICITOR: He's not here in relation to I know.
It's Are you proposing to charge him with a further offence? No, I'm asking the question.
Then, isn't it? He's in in relation to indecent images.
You're using emotive subjects to try and provoke a reaction from him, and I'll ask you to stick to questions involving When I'm dealing with indecent images of children, sexual abuse, I'm going to be asking my question, so I'll ask you again have you sexually abused BEEP.
SOLICITOR: Again, I'll say to you, you're being oppressive in the nature in which you're questioning OK.
And I'll ask you to stop.
BLEEP, have you sexually abused your child, BLEEP? SOLICITOR: If it continues, then the interview will be terminated and I might have to have a conversation with a sergeant, because it is an inappropriate line of questioning.
It's just a question that I'm asking.
So he can ask He can say to me if he doesn't want to answer that question.
He's already answered it.
No, he hasn't.
He hasn't.
He looked at you.
So he can answer that question with "no comment", "yes" or "no", or if he SUSPECT: No.
No.
OK.
Do you have a sexual relationship with your wife? No comment.
I think that's all my questions at the minute I want to ask about those.
So, before I finish and before I move on to welfare, I just want you to, you know, take a deep breath, give yourself a few seconds to have a think about if there's anything, whether it be about the offence, about something you want to tell us, before we finish this interview.
Is there anything you want to say? SOLICITOR: I've got a prepared statement.
I'll read it for the benefit of the tape.
Thank you.
That at the end.
Yeah, of course.
So, it reads, "All that was seized from my home address belonged to me.
"My wife has access to them but uses them for shopping, e-mails and Skype.
"I have downloaded file-sharing software and accept "that I have downloaded movies and box sets generally.
"I accept that I downloaded the files as suggested during interview.
"My wife is not involved in any way and was not aware of what's on this tape.
" That's signed and dated.
The terms of the main interview are finished.
I understand that today has probably been extremely stressful for you, and the implications, not just with your home life but with work, are huge.
OK? So I am That concerns me.
Do you have much family, friends, that you can call on for support? No.
Wife, OK.
And because I am concerned about you as an individual, OK? I've got a duty of care to you as someone who's been arrested in an offence which is quite emotive, which can be, you know, can make you think, you know, your whole world's collapsed, so I want you to have that support.
No comment, all the way to the end, until they confess that they did it.
So, you went out, came back in Yeah.
Statement to say he has done it.
What? Assaulted the kids? No, he has downloaded.
Oh.
I thought you were going to say he assaulted the kids.
He is responsible for it.
If I had just clone that first time round, I wouldn't have to go over my questions.
That is me done.
I have got a really bad headache now.
Been up since half past four.
15 years of training, for what? Sexual gratification.
How did you? He was in a position of trust.
Nobody can trust him again.
Get rid - quick.
Although the doctor has accepted the accusations in interview, the police cannot remand him to prison until they can assess the illegal material.
I have only got eight images.
That is it.
And he's deleted.
It is clear, then.
With nothing on the first laptop, a national backlog means the police will have to wait at least six months for the other eight items to be examined.
What a clay.
What a bloody clay.
Because of the potential risk to his child, social services must set the conditions of the suspect's bail.
OK, don't go nowhere yet.
Let me just give you an update of what's going on and what is going to happen.
In terms of bail, we can't let you go home tonight, OK? You need to find somewhere else to go, OK? Now, you have just said to me you have got no-one - no friends or family - you can stay with.
You're happy to do that? You are allowed home, but it will have to be supervised.
You can't sleep there.
-Yeah.
We are not going to stop you seeing We are not going to stop you from going there.
You can still see them, but can't be left alone with them.
Right.
You can't sleep there when you go round there, so that is why we are having to think about finding somewhere else for you to sleep.
Yeah, that's pretty what we have done before.
Yeah, as long as you're not being left alone with BLEEP.
Yeah.
Needs to understand that, all right? Cos you will just open yourself up to further problems.
All right.
Talk to you in a minute.
OK.
I will make sure that is kept clear.
He's being processed, hasn't he? Yeah.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Can you make sure no-one comes in here, please? OK, if you want to just stand up here.
The custody sergeant is going to go through the bail conditions.
You must not work as a doctor, in any capacity, or use your professional qualifications to seek employment within the medical field or any field that deal with children.
You are to surrender your British passport to officers.
Are there any issues I can help you with? If I can't work, what do I do? Well, you just can't work in the medical field, OK, while this is being investigated.
OK? It does not prevent you from doing anything else, OK? Do you have any family units here, doctor? None at all.
Nothing.
Just your wife and your child.
OK.
Do you have friends here? Far away.
OK.
Not here.
How far away are they? Not close ones, either.
Not anyone I want to go to.
OK.
Well Like I said earlier, you can still go in the day and you can spend some time with your wife and child.
Right, you are free to go.
His whole world has crashed, massively.
And he has made admissions, so he knows that -What an idiot.
What an idiot.
It is a horrible, horrible day outside It has massively impacted on their life, which is a good thing, especially if they pose a risk.
However, they are very much put into one category.
They are a paedophile and that's it.
In the 16 months I have been on the unit, I have only ever had one person say, "It was for sexual gratification.
"I like children sexually.
" The rest have steered away from that, because they don't want to be labelled with that, sort of, stigma.
If you saw him in the street, would you think he was a paedophile? Anyone is capable of it.
Half the time, you would never know.
You don't know what people are doing behind closed doors.
Everybody has got a guilty little secret.
All the blinds are shut.
Across the country, more than 700 have already been arrested.
All right.
A window's open.
Intelligence has led the team to another address.
Hello, it's Amanda, here, from Bedfordshire Police.
Is there any chance we can come in? Yeah? We just need to talk to you.
Who are you here with, at the minute? My wife.
Your wife.
OK, cool.
I have got a search warrant for this premises, cos we have had intelligence that somebody at this address is using file-sharing software to share indecent images of children on the internet.
OK.
Of making, producing and possessing indecent images of children.
You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court.
Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
Do you understand? OK.
What we are going to need you to do As my colleague says, we have got a search warrant so, obviously, we need to search the premises.
We need you to get dressed, as well, because shortly, you will be Yep, we need to take you to the station.
I was just explaining to your husband, we are from the investigation team at Beds Police.
We have got a search warrant for this address.
Sit down here.
If you want to sit down, that is fine.
OK, I don't It's over there, mate.
Listen to me.
Are you all right? Do you want to come and sit down and I can have a chat with you? It's all right.
OK.
This could take a little while.
Give yourself a minute before we do anything.
I don't want you collapsing.
Excuse me.
-OK, come through.
OK.
Erm we have got WIFE SPEAKS TEARFULLY OK, do you want me to get you a glass of water? No.
Are you sure? OK.
I don't want to cover that bit.
I can't, sort of, give you too much information, at the moment, because we need to start looking at computers and items and work out what we are dealing with, really.
Is there anything else down here? There is laptops there.
Yeah, I know.
And that is another reason we are here and he has been placed under arrest, because we know he works in a school.
Have you organised transport? Yeah.
Your colleague's just doing that now, so You can sit there, but obviously, I can only give you a minute or two and then we need to get you dressed and get you to the station.
You have gone very pale.
Do you need me to get you some medical assistance? Have you got any medical conditions? Is your heart racing? OK, just take a few minutes.
When they are behind their computers at home, they are in it for the minute that they are doing it and they are not even thinking about what repercussions it will have on their family, with regards to them being on the Sex Offenders for how many years.
It is just, they don't even think of that far down the line.
POLICE SIREN WAILS Hiya.
You all right? All right, all right.
Loving life, as always.
Sit down for a second, please, mate.
Living the dream.
You know me.
Start getting all this property and all that good stuff out, yeah? I'll be with you in a minute.
There you are, the inspector is Hold on one sec.
Right, time of arrest? Time of arrest is 07.
05.
What is the offence? The offence is suspicion of making, possessing and distributing indecent images of children.
Do you understand why you have been arrested? OK.
I am going to authorise your detention.
It means you'll be staying here with us for a while.
You will be interviewed about this matter and that will be an opportunity for you to give us your side of the story.
Have you ever been arrested before? OK.
Do you want a drink - tea, coffee, water? Water, yeah? Have a seat on the bench.
Once you get your fingerprints and all that done, you'll be interviewed.
See what happens after that, all right? He doesn't want a solicitor or anything.
He was classified on the intel as a high distributor.
Nasty man.
942 files shared.
More than So, 2011 to 2014? And there is a lot of stuff of five-year-olds, seven-year-olds, babies.
Some of these guys that I interview, I feel quite sorry for them.
Why? I don't know.
I think it's an illness.
Are you serious? Seriously.
Most of them, the people that we deal with, have been abused in their time, haven't they? I just I don't like the fact that they say, "Oh, it's because of this.
" I know people who have been abused and they are not committing crime.
- It's just an excuse.
If you go to the nice softly, softly approach, then I'm not very good at being bad cop.
I will come in.
I'm not good at putting the pressure on.
Yeah, I'll come in with the hard approach, then.
See what he says.
HATCH OPENS There you go.
Can I have the keys to get Number 5 up, please? e When I go down, is it on the left or right? I always go right the way round.
So I go right? Yes.
Thanks.
To the suspects, to the paedophiles, they don't look at the face expression, they don't see the innocence of that child, they don't think of anything, family background of that child, it is just literally an image for them to get sexual gratification.
So when I interview, I am thinking, "How did you even get to that point? "What makes you think that it is acceptable?" Hello.
You all right? OK.
You ready? Come on in.
Or out, rather.
After you.
Are you all right for water, or do you want me to get you another one? If you want to sit that side.
It was roasting in here yesterday.
Ready? TAPE RECORDER BLEEPS You were arrested today for the making and possession of indecent images of children, so the first thing I want to ask you, are you responsible for this offence? -I have never made images.
That, I would like to state for the record, that I have never made OK, in terms of the law, when we say making an indecent image, I don't mean you standing in front of a camera erm, standing with a camera in front of somebody taking the picture.
That would be classified as taking indecent images, OK? When we say, by making, means you have accessed that on the internet, OK? What can you tell me about, then? I Well, since the internet, I have downloaded child pornography.
OK.
Can you give me an idea of how many files containing indecent images? There's probably thousands.
Probably thousands? Whether I really look at them or not, I generally don't, I just save them.
Yeah, I could have been clever and just deleted everything, just kept deleting, but there's no point.
Well, I'm saying there's no point, you know, to try and hide it, I wasn't trying to hide it from obviously the law and what have you.
Obviously it is hidden from my wife, which is probably indicative of, dare I say it, people like me.
Yeah.
In terms of downloading, what would you download? Do you want to hear the life Yeah of a paedophile? Let's call it what I am.
Basically got into it through the internet, you know, you download a pornography movie, watch it, you find that, Yeah, I quite like it, whatever kicks in, in your brain, that's for scientists to explain, I don't know.
So obviously by mistake, whilst I was downloading, it downloaded some images of child pornography.
It was interesting.
From my perspective.
And then it becomes almost a drug, I suppose, it's a bit like smoking, cocaine, heroin And you know, you just want to watch more, yeah.
It's a mind-set, for want of a better word.
I'm not trying to defend it.
As I say, I did 22 years in the Army, I know right from wrong, hence why you know, hands up.
And, yeah, you can't live in denial, as much as you want, people sit here and say, "I'm sorry for what I did", yes, sorry that I downloaded, but, like most people I am probably sorry that I've been caught.
Explain to me what you look at.
Anything to do with child pornography, basically.
Do you want me to be descriptive or do you want me to? I want you to give me an example.
Children basically being raped, if you want it in a cold description.
Can be described, I am not saying That's fine.
Do you get sexually aroused by looking at them? What sort of ages are we looking at? Everything from one through to 16, 18, 20.
So you're in the street, and you see a child, any age, under the age of 17, are you sexually attracted to them? No.
Are you only sexually attracted to children when they are naked? Yes.
-OK.
So you would not find any of the schoolchildren that you teach between the ages of 11, to 18? 18.
You don't find any of those sexually? You don't get sexually? When you look at my camera you can see hundreds of images of school, ironically, I do all the school photography for events and things like that, and during displays And do you find those students at school sexually attractive? Have you ever thought about touching a child? Have you ever wanted to? Do you want to ask anything? Explain to me why you like seeing children being raped.
I can't.
I know it sounds It is something in my brain that I found attractive.
Or, I wouldn't say "Attractive" is possibly not the right word.
Exciting, stimulating, I don't know.
That's from the ages of one years old? Yes.
You don't need to emphasise it through to 16, 18, 20.
I totally understand.
So when a, let's say for example, one-year-old, who can't talk, is laying there, being raped you get a kick out of that? To be honest, I suppose I do, yes.
I don't know why.
And, yeah, yeah.
Please judge me, or No.
I'm here to prove or disprove that you've clone this offence.
Yes, I have.
-You've been open to me with regards to what we are talking about.
And I appreciate that.
All I want to know is why I don't know.
I you find a one-year-old child being raped I could break down here and start sobbing and saying all the words, you know, but I honestly don't know.
I honestly, you know, you're asking being totally honest.
I don't know.
Why If I was to turn the tables, if you don't mind, you're asking my understanding, you know, why do you find whatever you do sexually with your partner arousing? I don' t know I don't know why I find it I just think, to be fair, it is a little different when it is consensual sex.
When there is a one-year-old who cannot defend themselves, they are on their back, they can't talk t Being raped.
just, wow.
I totally agree, I know it is wrong, I know it is wrong, I know it shouldn't you know, but, I don't know.
That is the honest truth.
You know? What would your wife think if she knew that you were watching children at the ages of one being raped? Well, I would hope she would leave me.
She'd find it the same as you do, the same as most normal people probably do, find it disgusting.
And she has no idea.
She has no idea.
OK.
Is there anything else you want to say to me before I turn the tapes off? No? I think I've said pretty much Yeah.
Yeah, you have answered us nice and honestly so thank you very much for that.
And then, we'll have a chat outside.
OK.
So I am turning the tapes off, it is 11:33.
TAPE RECORDER BLEEPS It's just horrid.
What he likes to look at.
I can't believe he was so open about everything, though.
That was good, though.
People that say, hands up, "Yeah, my secret is out now, "I am addicted to looking at this kind of material.
" Those are the people that I actually think, you know, instead of a prison sentence, you need help for that.
And I have got more feelings towards those people, of wanting to help them, rather than the ones that lie.
Despite his admission, it will take months of investigation to assess the full extent of the evidence and build the case.
Going to bail you.
Until then, the suspect was released on bail on the condition he has no unsupervised contact with children and doesn't return to work at the school.
How are you feeling now? Is your wife going to be at home when we get back? Is she a lady that is quite understanding? I don't know.
-How long you've been married? -Uh ten years.
How do you think she's going to deal with it? Hopefully initially she will start hitting me.
Then she might calm down.
Do you talk to anybody else about this stuff? I don't.
My little dirty secret, if you want to put it that way.
Just take it one step at a time, OK? Do you want me to come into the house and speak to her, do you think, or do you want to be left on your own? If she opens the door, then that is a good sign.
I'm sure she will.
There you go.
Emma will have to open the door.
, 1:, OK, you sure you don't want us to come in or anything? We'll make sure she is home.
I will be in touch with you soon, though, let you know what's going on.
OK? So I'll give you a call.
Oh, look, she's in.
You can see her in the window.
A little thumbs-up.
All right.
She's let him back in the house.
It's literally like walking into a house and throwing a hand grenade in there and letting it explode.
Your life is about to take a completely different path.
Indecent images of children have been downloaded at this address.
We're going to place you all under arrest now on suspicion of possessing, making and distributing indecent images of children.
HANDCUFFS CLICK You're shaking a bit.
Once a suspect is in custody, the police have 24 hours to investigate and interview.
After that, it's either charge or release.
BEEPING TAPE RECORDING: You have been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
On suspicion of stalking.
-On suspicion of GBH.
Possession and making of indecent images of children.
TAPE RECORDING: On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
Start explaining.
It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
Where were you on the 28th of March? -It was not me! I was not there! That could have been 101 people.
But it's nothing to do with me.
Police! BANGING Open the door now! HE SHOUTS Who's innocent? Who's guilty? Why would Pete say that you've assaulted him? Because he's deluded.
He's a drunk.
-Well, that's nonsense.
Armed police! Show me your hands! From the streets to the interrogation rooms Where's the knife? -Did you have a knife? -No.
He makes a specific threat that he is going to kill her.
From the suspects to the head of CID That's one hell of a shirt, David.
I'm lovin' it.
ALARM WAILS, SHOUTING these are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
I'm not letting him get away with it.
-I want him nicked and charged.
If he kicks off, I'm out the door.
SHOUTING I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Will they discover it before time runs out? Ah! -Good news? -Yeah.
Got him.
This is a Bedfordshire operation.
We believe someone at the address has been file sharing indecent images of children.
Myself and Emma and maybe one other just go to the door, so we cl There's a child at the location, so we don't need to go in too heavy-handed.
Explain the reason for the warrant, erm We'll get BLEEP arrested and out of the house and then you guys can come in and conduct the search.
That's how it's going to pan out.
Detective Constable Paul Fitzharris is part of a Bedfordshire police task force.
They're involved in a UK-wide operation to tackle a surge in online child pornography.
Tired and just tired.
I do not like 4:30 starts, I have to say.
'It was never something I'd ever thought of' doing, to catch paedophiles for a living.
All my friends and family say to me, why on earth do you want to do that job? But it's good to lock these people up and get them away from children.
Before I joined this unit, I was quite sheltered from this.
And looking at these poor children being sexually abused, it it made me angry.
I remember going home thinking, just "wow" and it kept on going over in my head, over in my head.
'That' did scar me, cos I do have a little girl myself? The team act on intelligence they receive from the National Crime Agency.
This allows them to trace computers accessing illegal material.
KNOCKING Hello, good morning.
My name's Detective Paul Fitzharris from the Public Protection Unit of Bedfordshire Police.
Myself and my colleagues need to come in and have a chat.
Yea h, u re.
Who else is in the house? BLEEP.
Asleep? Yeah, OK.
Let's leave it like that.
WOMAN TALKS Erm, basically, we have a search warrant given to us by the Magistrates Court.
Now, this is based on intelligence we've received about the illegal downloading and sharing of indecent images of children.
OK, now Of children? Of children, that's right.
OK, based on that information, I'm going to place yourself under arrest, OK? On suspicion of possession, making and distribution of indecent images of children.
We're obviously mindful you've got a child here, OK? So that'll be clone tactfully.
Don't want to upset THEY TALK I didn't make them.
THEY TALK Yeah, and we'll go back to Luton now.
Do you want? Shall we put him in some different clothes? THEY TALK OK? OK.
-OK.
WOMAN SPEAKS QUIETLY I'll give you a call later on to let you know what's going on, HE HUMS DOOR BANGS Morning! KEYS JANGLE OK.
If you want to come in and stand on the side.
This is the custody sergeant.
-Mm-hm.
-Good morning.
Time of arrest? -It was 06:45.
-And arrested for what offence? The possession, making and distribution of indecent images of children.
BEEPING And your occupation? -Doctor.
Erm, could you take a seat on the bench for a moment? Can I talk to you out? So what are we doing with him today? -He's a gynaecologist.
-Mm-hm.
Erm, so by the end of play today, he'll be suspended.
Yeah, so, yeah It's a bit of a That's why it was a high risk one.
Yeah.
Hopefully, bailed somewhere else.
Excuse me.
I'm going to sort that thing out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it always rings alarm bells when you get Yeah, absolutely that profession.
THEY TALK You all right? All right? THEY TALK The police must now link the doctor to the illegal activity traced to his address.
Whose is this laptop? WOMAN MUTTERS All of yours? Right, I'm going to sit down with you and explain everything.
I just need to check on BLEEP.
OK.
-When you know that you've got a husband and a wife and family and children there, it is it is heartbreaking to do that warrant, for me.
I want to be in there, seizing items and getting myself straight back out again, because of the upset and how much we have just turned that family's life around.
It's unbelievable.
OK, is there anything you want to ask before we leave? Mm-mm.
No? OK.
All right.
Shall we get going? Nine seized computers and storage devices will be sent for forensic examination.
It will take several months to get the results.
What have we got? -In the time they are allowed to hold the suspect, the team can conduct an initial search of just one laptop.
LAPTOP WHIRS All right, sir? You have the right to speak to an independent solicitor.
That's free of charge.
And that could be in person or on the telephone.
You want to have a solicitor? -Yep.
-Do you have one? Or would you like the duty? -No comment.
It is frightening how many people are actively involved.
It starts with the actual abuse, but it goes right down to the people that are looking at it in their homes and they just think that it's not real.
It's, you know, like an act, like a scene and then everybody goes home happy.
They don't realise that that, that is actual sexual abuse they're watching.
That is rape, they're watching.
You're part of the problem, so, although you're not there, you're contributing to it by wanting to see it.
Er, some Polo mints.
Hospital ID card.
While we're waiting for you to be interviewed, I'll need to keep you in one of our detention rooms, one of the cells.
Do you want tea or coffee or anything now? -No, thanks.
Erm, just M2 with a blanket then, please.
-OK.
-OK.
-Follow me.
No problem.
Do you want a blanket? -I should be OK.
You should be OK? If you need one, just says to buzz Sergeant.
I know it's, like, not the nicest room in the world TALKING FADES, TICKING All right, OK? We'll talk to you in a bit.
DOOR BANGS M2 is a doctor.
Arrested for indecent images, so it's a quite a sensitive job, so just keep an eye on him for the first hour or Cos his world is about to fall apart.
Hello, are you all right? How you doing, Annie? A gynaecologist has been arrested on suspicion of downloading child pornography.
Intrigued to see what story he's going to come up with.
He'll come up with some excuse.
And did you see BLEEP? -Yeah.
If that was me I'd be like, "Off you go.
" Not a chance.
So if you came home and found him doing it on the computer, you'd be like, "Get the hell out"? -"Get out.
" Especially cos I've got a little one.
But would it be in the back of your mind that he'd touched her up? Yep.
Would she tell you? Yep.
Definitely.
That's good.
Definitely.
But, like, how many people, partners, stay with their partners that have been Oh, loads of them.
-even convicted.
-Loads of them.
It'is how much you accept; I suppose, at the end of the day; Where your boundaries lie.
I think it's different if you have children, though, isn't it? Yeah.
Well, they'll be affected as well, it's not just him.
CLOCK TICKING Nine times out of ten, the solicitor will advise them to say nothing.
They will be advised that, OK, you've been arrested, but the police haven't actually got the physical evidence yet.
They've taken, they've seized your computer, for instance - that needs to be examined.
What if they don't find anything? Don't sort of admit to anything they haven't got yet.
Let them prove it before you admit it.
That one.
And that one.
MACHINE BLEEPS OK, the first thing I'm going to ask you is - are you responsible for the offence for which you been arrested? No comment.
-No comment, OK.
What I'm going to do is just go through a series of questions, background questions, that you may feel you want to answer, OK? So first of all, I'm going to ask you - you've already given me your address at the start of the interview - can you tell me who else lives there? IN DISTINC I'll say no comment.
-I think this is a good point for me to go through some of the files that were downloaded, OK? So, we're going to go back to the 23.
02.
2013, and the first title that was downloaded was 12-Year-old Girls Flashing Tits And Kissing Each Other.
What can you tell me about that download? Although the police will not have conclusive proof until the computers are examined, they do have a list of file names that were downloaded from the doctor's home.
You can see, obviously, I've got quite a lothere, and it's not my intention to go through every single one, so I've just picked out some titles that are quite prominent and that have got quite impactive names so they might jog your memory, OK? Very Young Cocaine-Addict Lesbian Teen Sluts Doing Crazy Things On Sick Cam With Sound - in brackets - Webcam.
What can you tell me about that download? Is it something that you think that your wife could have downloaded? BLEEP downloaded? OK, that file was shared a further three times.
Could it be your wife that's downloading No comment.
You keep looking at your solicitor.
If you want to talk to us, talk to us, OK? Because this is your time.
This is We're trying to prove - or disprove - your involvement.
Right now, you are just saying, "No comment", we're getting no information from you.
Yeah? So this is your interview, this is your time to talk to us.
I understand.
May I have a quick word with my solicitor before we continue? OK, yep.
Yep.
OK, Yep- You Push him now.
Push him now.
(Getting hot in here.
) Have you not got a T-shirt on? SHE LAUGHS You hate a T-shirt.
I don't! Ooh, I'm getting a bit hot.
He badly wants to talk.
He wants to say it's not her.
What we will try is try and hit on things that emotive to them.
Let's look at who else is involved - your children, your wife, your family.
Yeah, OK.
'This is what's going to happen if you don't talk.
You know, it's going to have more effect on your family and loved ones.
We're going to have to, you know, look at what they're doing and We're going to have to interview them.
Because of the nature of the offences, and we're talking about offences against children, and there is a child living here, we do have a duty to safeguard OK? And that's what it's about.
It'll be some simple questions, just to make sure that is safe.
OK? All right? Not saying that anything's happened - certainly not the case at all, and we certainly haven't got any evidence to suggest that that has happened.
With paedophiles, we know it goes in a natural progression.
If they're looking at indecent images of children, they may have already committed hands-on offences, or they may have started looking at these images and got a bit braver and thought, "Actually, I might try doing something myself.
" So there is a natural progression, generally, to get from them sitting in front of the computer to them actually physically abusing somebody.
Have you just woken up? Ah.
Need to have a drink or anything? No, you're all right? What's things like at home? There's just you, Mum and Dad, isn't there? Lives here.
OK.
And is everything OK at home? Yeah? If anything was troubling you at home, yeah? If you were worried about anything at home, who would you tell? I would tell my mum.
Is there anyone else that you could tell? I would call my dad on the phone.
1 Yeah.
1-; Yeah.
OK, um And are you happy at home? Yeah? OK.
OK.
Um Is there anything else you want to tell me about? That makes you unhappy, maybe? No.
No? OK.
Um The time on the video recording is 13.
13.
We're still in interview room six at Luton Police Station.
You're still under caution.
Can you tell me where you work at the moment? No comment.
OK.
I'm aware that you're a doctor, OK? And I think we'd agree that that is in a position of trust.
Have you ever abused that position of trust to sexually assault children? No comment.
You have a No comment.
We spoke to BLEEP this morning.
Have you sexually assaulted E I I SOLICITOR: He's not here in relation to I know.
It's Are you proposing to charge him with a further offence? No, I'm asking the question.
Then, isn't it? He's in in relation to indecent images.
You're using emotive subjects to try and provoke a reaction from him, and I'll ask you to stick to questions involving When I'm dealing with indecent images of children, sexual abuse, I'm going to be asking my question, so I'll ask you again have you sexually abused BEEP.
SOLICITOR: Again, I'll say to you, you're being oppressive in the nature in which you're questioning OK.
And I'll ask you to stop.
BLEEP, have you sexually abused your child, BLEEP? SOLICITOR: If it continues, then the interview will be terminated and I might have to have a conversation with a sergeant, because it is an inappropriate line of questioning.
It's just a question that I'm asking.
So he can ask He can say to me if he doesn't want to answer that question.
He's already answered it.
No, he hasn't.
He hasn't.
He looked at you.
So he can answer that question with "no comment", "yes" or "no", or if he SUSPECT: No.
No.
OK.
Do you have a sexual relationship with your wife? No comment.
I think that's all my questions at the minute I want to ask about those.
So, before I finish and before I move on to welfare, I just want you to, you know, take a deep breath, give yourself a few seconds to have a think about if there's anything, whether it be about the offence, about something you want to tell us, before we finish this interview.
Is there anything you want to say? SOLICITOR: I've got a prepared statement.
I'll read it for the benefit of the tape.
Thank you.
That at the end.
Yeah, of course.
So, it reads, "All that was seized from my home address belonged to me.
"My wife has access to them but uses them for shopping, e-mails and Skype.
"I have downloaded file-sharing software and accept "that I have downloaded movies and box sets generally.
"I accept that I downloaded the files as suggested during interview.
"My wife is not involved in any way and was not aware of what's on this tape.
" That's signed and dated.
The terms of the main interview are finished.
I understand that today has probably been extremely stressful for you, and the implications, not just with your home life but with work, are huge.
OK? So I am That concerns me.
Do you have much family, friends, that you can call on for support? No.
Wife, OK.
And because I am concerned about you as an individual, OK? I've got a duty of care to you as someone who's been arrested in an offence which is quite emotive, which can be, you know, can make you think, you know, your whole world's collapsed, so I want you to have that support.
No comment, all the way to the end, until they confess that they did it.
So, you went out, came back in Yeah.
Statement to say he has done it.
What? Assaulted the kids? No, he has downloaded.
Oh.
I thought you were going to say he assaulted the kids.
He is responsible for it.
If I had just clone that first time round, I wouldn't have to go over my questions.
That is me done.
I have got a really bad headache now.
Been up since half past four.
15 years of training, for what? Sexual gratification.
How did you? He was in a position of trust.
Nobody can trust him again.
Get rid - quick.
Although the doctor has accepted the accusations in interview, the police cannot remand him to prison until they can assess the illegal material.
I have only got eight images.
That is it.
And he's deleted.
It is clear, then.
With nothing on the first laptop, a national backlog means the police will have to wait at least six months for the other eight items to be examined.
What a clay.
What a bloody clay.
Because of the potential risk to his child, social services must set the conditions of the suspect's bail.
OK, don't go nowhere yet.
Let me just give you an update of what's going on and what is going to happen.
In terms of bail, we can't let you go home tonight, OK? You need to find somewhere else to go, OK? Now, you have just said to me you have got no-one - no friends or family - you can stay with.
You're happy to do that? You are allowed home, but it will have to be supervised.
You can't sleep there.
-Yeah.
We are not going to stop you seeing We are not going to stop you from going there.
You can still see them, but can't be left alone with them.
Right.
You can't sleep there when you go round there, so that is why we are having to think about finding somewhere else for you to sleep.
Yeah, that's pretty what we have done before.
Yeah, as long as you're not being left alone with BLEEP.
Yeah.
Needs to understand that, all right? Cos you will just open yourself up to further problems.
All right.
Talk to you in a minute.
OK.
I will make sure that is kept clear.
He's being processed, hasn't he? Yeah.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Can you make sure no-one comes in here, please? OK, if you want to just stand up here.
The custody sergeant is going to go through the bail conditions.
You must not work as a doctor, in any capacity, or use your professional qualifications to seek employment within the medical field or any field that deal with children.
You are to surrender your British passport to officers.
Are there any issues I can help you with? If I can't work, what do I do? Well, you just can't work in the medical field, OK, while this is being investigated.
OK? It does not prevent you from doing anything else, OK? Do you have any family units here, doctor? None at all.
Nothing.
Just your wife and your child.
OK.
Do you have friends here? Far away.
OK.
Not here.
How far away are they? Not close ones, either.
Not anyone I want to go to.
OK.
Well Like I said earlier, you can still go in the day and you can spend some time with your wife and child.
Right, you are free to go.
His whole world has crashed, massively.
And he has made admissions, so he knows that -What an idiot.
What an idiot.
It is a horrible, horrible day outside It has massively impacted on their life, which is a good thing, especially if they pose a risk.
However, they are very much put into one category.
They are a paedophile and that's it.
In the 16 months I have been on the unit, I have only ever had one person say, "It was for sexual gratification.
"I like children sexually.
" The rest have steered away from that, because they don't want to be labelled with that, sort of, stigma.
If you saw him in the street, would you think he was a paedophile? Anyone is capable of it.
Half the time, you would never know.
You don't know what people are doing behind closed doors.
Everybody has got a guilty little secret.
All the blinds are shut.
Across the country, more than 700 have already been arrested.
All right.
A window's open.
Intelligence has led the team to another address.
Hello, it's Amanda, here, from Bedfordshire Police.
Is there any chance we can come in? Yeah? We just need to talk to you.
Who are you here with, at the minute? My wife.
Your wife.
OK, cool.
I have got a search warrant for this premises, cos we have had intelligence that somebody at this address is using file-sharing software to share indecent images of children on the internet.
OK.
Of making, producing and possessing indecent images of children.
You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court.
Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
Do you understand? OK.
What we are going to need you to do As my colleague says, we have got a search warrant so, obviously, we need to search the premises.
We need you to get dressed, as well, because shortly, you will be Yep, we need to take you to the station.
I was just explaining to your husband, we are from the investigation team at Beds Police.
We have got a search warrant for this address.
Sit down here.
If you want to sit down, that is fine.
OK, I don't It's over there, mate.
Listen to me.
Are you all right? Do you want to come and sit down and I can have a chat with you? It's all right.
OK.
This could take a little while.
Give yourself a minute before we do anything.
I don't want you collapsing.
Excuse me.
-OK, come through.
OK.
Erm we have got WIFE SPEAKS TEARFULLY OK, do you want me to get you a glass of water? No.
Are you sure? OK.
I don't want to cover that bit.
I can't, sort of, give you too much information, at the moment, because we need to start looking at computers and items and work out what we are dealing with, really.
Is there anything else down here? There is laptops there.
Yeah, I know.
And that is another reason we are here and he has been placed under arrest, because we know he works in a school.
Have you organised transport? Yeah.
Your colleague's just doing that now, so You can sit there, but obviously, I can only give you a minute or two and then we need to get you dressed and get you to the station.
You have gone very pale.
Do you need me to get you some medical assistance? Have you got any medical conditions? Is your heart racing? OK, just take a few minutes.
When they are behind their computers at home, they are in it for the minute that they are doing it and they are not even thinking about what repercussions it will have on their family, with regards to them being on the Sex Offenders for how many years.
It is just, they don't even think of that far down the line.
POLICE SIREN WAILS Hiya.
You all right? All right, all right.
Loving life, as always.
Sit down for a second, please, mate.
Living the dream.
You know me.
Start getting all this property and all that good stuff out, yeah? I'll be with you in a minute.
There you are, the inspector is Hold on one sec.
Right, time of arrest? Time of arrest is 07.
05.
What is the offence? The offence is suspicion of making, possessing and distributing indecent images of children.
Do you understand why you have been arrested? OK.
I am going to authorise your detention.
It means you'll be staying here with us for a while.
You will be interviewed about this matter and that will be an opportunity for you to give us your side of the story.
Have you ever been arrested before? OK.
Do you want a drink - tea, coffee, water? Water, yeah? Have a seat on the bench.
Once you get your fingerprints and all that done, you'll be interviewed.
See what happens after that, all right? He doesn't want a solicitor or anything.
He was classified on the intel as a high distributor.
Nasty man.
942 files shared.
More than So, 2011 to 2014? And there is a lot of stuff of five-year-olds, seven-year-olds, babies.
Some of these guys that I interview, I feel quite sorry for them.
Why? I don't know.
I think it's an illness.
Are you serious? Seriously.
Most of them, the people that we deal with, have been abused in their time, haven't they? I just I don't like the fact that they say, "Oh, it's because of this.
" I know people who have been abused and they are not committing crime.
- It's just an excuse.
If you go to the nice softly, softly approach, then I'm not very good at being bad cop.
I will come in.
I'm not good at putting the pressure on.
Yeah, I'll come in with the hard approach, then.
See what he says.
HATCH OPENS There you go.
Can I have the keys to get Number 5 up, please? e When I go down, is it on the left or right? I always go right the way round.
So I go right? Yes.
Thanks.
To the suspects, to the paedophiles, they don't look at the face expression, they don't see the innocence of that child, they don't think of anything, family background of that child, it is just literally an image for them to get sexual gratification.
So when I interview, I am thinking, "How did you even get to that point? "What makes you think that it is acceptable?" Hello.
You all right? OK.
You ready? Come on in.
Or out, rather.
After you.
Are you all right for water, or do you want me to get you another one? If you want to sit that side.
It was roasting in here yesterday.
Ready? TAPE RECORDER BLEEPS You were arrested today for the making and possession of indecent images of children, so the first thing I want to ask you, are you responsible for this offence? -I have never made images.
That, I would like to state for the record, that I have never made OK, in terms of the law, when we say making an indecent image, I don't mean you standing in front of a camera erm, standing with a camera in front of somebody taking the picture.
That would be classified as taking indecent images, OK? When we say, by making, means you have accessed that on the internet, OK? What can you tell me about, then? I Well, since the internet, I have downloaded child pornography.
OK.
Can you give me an idea of how many files containing indecent images? There's probably thousands.
Probably thousands? Whether I really look at them or not, I generally don't, I just save them.
Yeah, I could have been clever and just deleted everything, just kept deleting, but there's no point.
Well, I'm saying there's no point, you know, to try and hide it, I wasn't trying to hide it from obviously the law and what have you.
Obviously it is hidden from my wife, which is probably indicative of, dare I say it, people like me.
Yeah.
In terms of downloading, what would you download? Do you want to hear the life Yeah of a paedophile? Let's call it what I am.
Basically got into it through the internet, you know, you download a pornography movie, watch it, you find that, Yeah, I quite like it, whatever kicks in, in your brain, that's for scientists to explain, I don't know.
So obviously by mistake, whilst I was downloading, it downloaded some images of child pornography.
It was interesting.
From my perspective.
And then it becomes almost a drug, I suppose, it's a bit like smoking, cocaine, heroin And you know, you just want to watch more, yeah.
It's a mind-set, for want of a better word.
I'm not trying to defend it.
As I say, I did 22 years in the Army, I know right from wrong, hence why you know, hands up.
And, yeah, you can't live in denial, as much as you want, people sit here and say, "I'm sorry for what I did", yes, sorry that I downloaded, but, like most people I am probably sorry that I've been caught.
Explain to me what you look at.
Anything to do with child pornography, basically.
Do you want me to be descriptive or do you want me to? I want you to give me an example.
Children basically being raped, if you want it in a cold description.
Can be described, I am not saying That's fine.
Do you get sexually aroused by looking at them? What sort of ages are we looking at? Everything from one through to 16, 18, 20.
So you're in the street, and you see a child, any age, under the age of 17, are you sexually attracted to them? No.
Are you only sexually attracted to children when they are naked? Yes.
-OK.
So you would not find any of the schoolchildren that you teach between the ages of 11, to 18? 18.
You don't find any of those sexually? You don't get sexually? When you look at my camera you can see hundreds of images of school, ironically, I do all the school photography for events and things like that, and during displays And do you find those students at school sexually attractive? Have you ever thought about touching a child? Have you ever wanted to? Do you want to ask anything? Explain to me why you like seeing children being raped.
I can't.
I know it sounds It is something in my brain that I found attractive.
Or, I wouldn't say "Attractive" is possibly not the right word.
Exciting, stimulating, I don't know.
That's from the ages of one years old? Yes.
You don't need to emphasise it through to 16, 18, 20.
I totally understand.
So when a, let's say for example, one-year-old, who can't talk, is laying there, being raped you get a kick out of that? To be honest, I suppose I do, yes.
I don't know why.
And, yeah, yeah.
Please judge me, or No.
I'm here to prove or disprove that you've clone this offence.
Yes, I have.
-You've been open to me with regards to what we are talking about.
And I appreciate that.
All I want to know is why I don't know.
I you find a one-year-old child being raped I could break down here and start sobbing and saying all the words, you know, but I honestly don't know.
I honestly, you know, you're asking being totally honest.
I don't know.
Why If I was to turn the tables, if you don't mind, you're asking my understanding, you know, why do you find whatever you do sexually with your partner arousing? I don' t know I don't know why I find it I just think, to be fair, it is a little different when it is consensual sex.
When there is a one-year-old who cannot defend themselves, they are on their back, they can't talk t Being raped.
just, wow.
I totally agree, I know it is wrong, I know it is wrong, I know it shouldn't you know, but, I don't know.
That is the honest truth.
You know? What would your wife think if she knew that you were watching children at the ages of one being raped? Well, I would hope she would leave me.
She'd find it the same as you do, the same as most normal people probably do, find it disgusting.
And she has no idea.
She has no idea.
OK.
Is there anything else you want to say to me before I turn the tapes off? No? I think I've said pretty much Yeah.
Yeah, you have answered us nice and honestly so thank you very much for that.
And then, we'll have a chat outside.
OK.
So I am turning the tapes off, it is 11:33.
TAPE RECORDER BLEEPS It's just horrid.
What he likes to look at.
I can't believe he was so open about everything, though.
That was good, though.
People that say, hands up, "Yeah, my secret is out now, "I am addicted to looking at this kind of material.
" Those are the people that I actually think, you know, instead of a prison sentence, you need help for that.
And I have got more feelings towards those people, of wanting to help them, rather than the ones that lie.
Despite his admission, it will take months of investigation to assess the full extent of the evidence and build the case.
Going to bail you.
Until then, the suspect was released on bail on the condition he has no unsupervised contact with children and doesn't return to work at the school.
How are you feeling now? Is your wife going to be at home when we get back? Is she a lady that is quite understanding? I don't know.
-How long you've been married? -Uh ten years.
How do you think she's going to deal with it? Hopefully initially she will start hitting me.
Then she might calm down.
Do you talk to anybody else about this stuff? I don't.
My little dirty secret, if you want to put it that way.
Just take it one step at a time, OK? Do you want me to come into the house and speak to her, do you think, or do you want to be left on your own? If she opens the door, then that is a good sign.
I'm sure she will.
There you go.
Emma will have to open the door.
, 1:, OK, you sure you don't want us to come in or anything? We'll make sure she is home.
I will be in touch with you soon, though, let you know what's going on.
OK? So I'll give you a call.
Oh, look, she's in.
You can see her in the window.
A little thumbs-up.
All right.
She's let him back in the house.